legion242
Posts: 216
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 10:18 am

Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:06 am

Ok, strictly an objective thread starter I hope. I will wait for several responses before giving me opinion to off-put any idea that this was started for reasons other then just pure interest.

Anywho, I have watched this show since inception. I watched a couple on my TIVO last night and it occured to me that I wondered what the general public (not that this group is so "general"!) took away from the show as regards to their opinions of the airline.

Thoughts?

Legion
Don't make me release the monkeys!!
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:09 am

In the last three years that "Airline" has run on A&E, the subject has come up on a regular basis. You might want to try a search (in civil, and archived civil aviation) for the numerous past threads.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:13 am

Well for some of those CSA's, I'd say it definetly helps  Wink
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
StuckInCA
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:27 am

This is one of the topics that should be nominated on the following thread:

Candidates For A.net Prohibited Topics List

 Smile
 
Kahala777
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:27 am

For the publics point of view, I would say that it only improves the view of Southwest Airlines. It is a very educational program for people who do not travel. It shows that the flying public is in many cases unprepared and living in a glass bubble when it comes to the airline industry. Southwest Airlines, had the guts to do the program, and now they are reaping the rewards!

KAHALA777
 
legion242
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:37 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 4):
It shows that the flying public is in many cases unprepared and living in a glass bubble when it comes to the airline industry.

How do you mean "glass bubble"? Their expectations?
Don't make me release the monkeys!!
 
Kahala777
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:44 am

Quoting Legion242 (Reply 5):
How do you mean "glass bubble"? Their expectations?

Expectations, Demands, and Rants... How many times has there been a drunk person on Airline that is mad that they are denied boarding? How many times has there been a passenger who has missed a flight, and demanded Southwest put them up for the night, or endorse the ticket to another airline? How many times have we seen passengers on Airline rant and rave about baggage and seating standards with Southwest? One thing can be said, the program, has made Southwest Airlines more realistic to many. Do you honestly think that American, United, Delta, or Northwest would want Airline to be filming their moves?


KAHALA777
 
levg79
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:44 am

Kahala777, I'd have to disagree. As someone who's never flown WN, I'm not looking forward to it after watching the show. For example, showing on national TV the idea of overbooking flights and leaving passengers stranded on standby is not a form of positive advertisements. I've only been traveling on major carriers so I never had to experience denied boarding for whatever reason (which is shown at least once in every episode of the Airline), but I'd just say not only it's inconvenient, but it also disrupts your schedule. How many times have we seen in the Airline people denied boarding who ended up either missing their jobs or schools for something that's not their fault. And what about the story about people who "appear" drunk? Showing that is definitely not a good public relations for WN. Sorry if I offended anyone, just my  twocents .

Leo.
A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
 
goingboeing
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:47 am

I was at a luncheon where Colleen Barrett was the guest speaker. This question was asked of her, and she replied that while it sometimes makes her cringe, the response to Southwest from the general public has been overwhelmingly positive.
 
Tornado82
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:47 am

I won't watch the trash, as I consider all reality TV trash.

However my girlfriend, a reality TV junkie, refuses to fly WN because of the show, saying "How could anyone put up with those people on there?" From what she's told me, Airline seems to feature on the problem-pax, and since it does, it gives the perception that only troublemakers fly WN... hence her distaste.

As a side note, I've never spewed any anti-WN rhetoric to her to sway her position... it's fully based from the TV show... and she's nothing more than a once every-other-month or so leisure traveler... the kind "Airline" and Southwest aim towards. She probably doesn't know the diff between a DC9 and a 757... and thinks winglets are just for decorations like hood ornaments.  Confused
 
legion242
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:54 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 6):
Expectations, Demands, and Rants... How many times has there been a drunk person on Airline that is mad that they are denied boarding? How many times has there been a passenger who has missed a flight, and demanded Southwest put them up for the night, or endorse the ticket to another airline? How many times have we seen passengers on Airline rant and rave about baggage and seating standards with Southwest? One thing can be said, the program, has made Southwest Airlines more realistic to many. Do you honestly think that American, United, Delta, or Northwest would want Airline to be filming their moves?

Understood. Whenever these situations come up, I think that the staff handle themselves well and this is where the good PR comes to light.

But just as often, I see an ugly side of their model. First and foremost is the caliber of their clientele. I fly a fair amount during the year and have NEVER seen anyone too drunk, too dirty, etc to fly.

And even some of the positive things they seem to show would annoy the heck out of me if they occurred on my airline. They seem willing to use the PA for any stupid reason. Just this season, they have had a really bad stand-up comic do his routine in the aisle, a beauty queen doing something (can't remember what) and juggling bartenders up and down the aisle. I would find this very disruptive and annoying. But maybe I am just stuck in the past when folks dressed up to fly and a manner of decorum was expected by everyone.

And I also wonder if these complaints of mine are also seen on other LCC's. I have heard of horror stories on some European LCC's re: drunks, but do JetBlue, Song, Airtran or any others allow things like performers during the flight?
Don't make me release the monkeys!!
 
Kahala777
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:59 am

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 7):
For example, showing on national TV the idea of overbooking flights and leaving passengers stranded on standby is not a form of positive advertisements.

The idea of overbooking flights does not originate with Southwest Airlines. Look to the likes of Delta, American, and United Airlines. Stranded - I can tell you about a KLM flight I was on from LAX with a 23 hour delay, Alitalia delay at LAX with a 17 hour delay, United Airlines delay at AKL with a 20 hour delay. Things happen, it is the chance you take when you fly. Should we mention how NWA stranded over 100 passengers on a runway in Detroit for 9 hours, a few years back?

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 7):
How many times have we seen in the Airline people denied boarding who ended up either missing their jobs or schools for something that's not their fault.

This is an everyday practice at every airline. Things happen. Natural disasters happen. Storms happen. Aircraft mechanical problems happen. Again, this is an everyday things for every single airline.

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 7):
And what about the story about people who "appear" drunk?

People get drunk and the airline, and F.A.A. have rules in place for those people not to travel, simple as that!

KAHALA777
 
COEWR
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:59 am

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 3):
This is one of the topics that should be nominated on the following thread:

Candidates For A.net Prohibited Topics List

In that case when do you think the NW DC-9's will be retired...

lol

-C
 
socalfive
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:03 am

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 7):
For example, showing on national TV the idea of overbooking flights and leaving passengers stranded on standby is not a form of positive advertisements.

EVERY airline overbooks and always has according to a particular formula based on cancellations/no shows for any given flight. I've flown WN a thousand times and have never experienced an overbooking simply because I GET TO THE AIRPORT ON TIME. For that matter, I've never been denied boarding on any carrier for overbooking for the same reason. On two occasions I totally missed my flight and WN (as would most carriers) went out of their way to book me standby the same day to my destination. The difference might have been my RESPECT and understanding that it was my fault not theirs that I wasn't where I was supposed to be at the given time. WN has always treated me like gold and I choose them first always where possible.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 9):
However my girlfriend, a reality TV junkie, refuses to fly WN because of the show, saying "How could anyone put up with those people on there?" From what she's told me, Airline seems to feature on the problem-pax, and since it does, it gives the perception that only troublemakers fly WN... hence her distaste.

That's closed minded at best but not surprising. Every carrier experiences the same issues. There's unfortunately a significant segment of the american population that are idiots and the show often times showcases that segment. I've got plenty of friends that are CSAs at CO and AA and UA and they all tell the same stories.
 
goingboeing
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:10 am

Quoting Legion242 (Reply 10):
But just as often, I see an ugly side of their model. First and foremost is the caliber of their clientele. I fly a fair amount during the year and have NEVER seen anyone too drunk, too dirty, etc to fly.

I guess you wouldn't like me....I am SWA clientele...business professional, large home, very comfortable income. There are millions of others like me who are also SWA clientele. But you know, I used to fly a lot too, and I haven't seen anybody take a sh!t on a serving cart, but United had a FIRST CLASS passenger do that....does that represent the usual UAL clientele? I don't think so. Neither does 5 drunks a week out of 70,000,000 passengers a year reflect in any way on the "typical" clientele.
 
Tornado82
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:15 am

Quoting Socalfive (Reply 13):
There's unfortunately a significant segment of the american population that are idiots and the show often times showcases that segment.

There's the problem... what the show puts the spotlight on. For that matter, with cameras floating around, wouldn't surprise me if some people purposefully act like idiots just trying to get on TV. Every airline has its share of idiots, but none of the others get a TV show to put the spotlight on them.
 
ScottB
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:17 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 9):
and she's nothing more than a once every-other-month or so leisure traveler... the kind "Airline" and Southwest aim towards.

Actually, Southwest's true core market is business travelers who want frequency and affordable fares available on no or little advance notice. They don't fly DAL-HOU every half hour because the tourists demand it.
 
legion242
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:18 am

Quoting Goingboeing (Reply 14):
Quoting Legion242 (Reply 10):
But just as often, I see an ugly side of their model. First and foremost is the caliber of their clientele. I fly a fair amount during the year and have NEVER seen anyone too drunk, too dirty, etc to fly.

I guess you wouldn't like me....I am SWA clientele...business professional, large home, very comfortable income. There are millions of others like me who are also SWA clientele. But you know, I used to fly a lot too, and I haven't seen anybody take a sh!t on a serving cart, but United had a FIRST CLASS passenger do that....does that represent the usual UAL clientele? I don't think so. Neither does 5 drunks a week out of 70,000,000 passengers a year reflect in any way on the "typical" clientele.

No, I think we would get along just fine. We're both aviation enthusiasts after all!!

And you are right. This is probably not a good representation of the true WN customer, but then, wouldn't you think that WN would try to change that image instead of having it broadcast?

I have flown WN once, four years ago, and though I did not see any drunks, I was disappointed in the hygiene of my seat mates.

There is no doubt that the convience of the airline is perfect for some. But I can equal if not more of a kick from the higher end clientele they show who get p.o.ed when something goes wrong and they get very "Entitled". I practically scream at the TV, "You get what you pay for moron!!".
Don't make me release the monkeys!!
 
levg79
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:22 am

I wish we could ask our friend Seven3Seven on what he thinks about the show. Too bad he's suspended.... Sad

Leo.
A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
 
Simpilicity
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:27 am

of course it helps.

It also makes you empathise with WN check in staff, when u realise some of the dickheads they have to deal with day in day out.

I would surely lost it with some of the morons they have to deal with & have told them to f... off, given them a refund & had cops escort them out of WN gates or the whole airport.
 
N276AASTT
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:34 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 9):
However my girlfriend, a reality TV junkie, refuses to fly WN because of the show, saying "How could anyone put up with those people on there?" From what she's told me, Airline seems to feature on the problem-pax, and since it does, it gives the perception that only troublemakers fly WN... hence her distaste.

Sorry Tornado, I have to disagree with you.
Every carrier has it's problem pax/issues. Does your girlfriend not like UA as well? A while back UA made the news when a man took a dump on one of their carts or just recently another man took a piss in the aisle. There is no difference between the carriers with regards to this issue, they all deal with it. They do however handle it in different ways according to company policy. The airlines are hoping that when they book a passenger on their flights that the person is going to behave accordingly and not disrupt the operation in any way.

People tend to remember the bad issues before they remember the good. They show a lot of situations where the WN personnel have gone out of their way to help a passenger in need, but people find those easier to forget.
Dejale Caer tu el Peso! YOMO
 
Tornado82
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:35 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 16):

Actually, Southwest's true core market is business travelers who want frequency and affordable fares available on no or little advance notice. They don't fly DAL-HOU every half hour because the tourists demand it.

Agreed, when looking at PIT-MDW/PHL. Disagreed when looking at PIT-MCO/TPA/LAS, etc. LCC's were designed for leisure pax from their conception. Adaptations to business routes were a fringe benefit.
 
legion242
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:40 am

Quoting N276AASTT (Reply 20):
Every carrier has it's problem pax/issues. Does your girlfriend not like UA as well? A while back UA made the news when a man took a dump on one of their carts or just recently another man took a piss in the aisle. There is no difference between the carriers with regards to this issue, they all deal with it. They do however handle it in different ways according to company policy.

One can't really blame her. These are the facts that are given to her and that is what she bases her opinion on. No one has denied that these things don't happen on other airlines and if UA was the subject, she might come to the same conclusion.

But one must still wonder why WN would be comfortable with these sorts of issues being so predominate on the programme. I can guarantee you that Tornado's g/f is not the only one creating these opinions.

Legion
Don't make me release the monkeys!!
 
N276AASTT
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:40 am

Quoting Legion242 (Reply 17):
This is probably not a good representation of the true WN customer, but then, wouldn't you think that WN would try to change that image instead of having it broadcast?

But, then you can't call it "Reality TV!" Sure, WN might want to edit out some of what was taped, but then that goes against what the show is about.
Dejale Caer tu el Peso! YOMO
 
legion242
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:43 am

Quoting N276AASTT (Reply 23):
Quoting Legion242 (Reply 17):
This is probably not a good representation of the true WN customer, but then, wouldn't you think that WN would try to change that image instead of having it broadcast?

But, then you can't call it "Reality TV!" Sure, WN might want to edit out some of what was taped, but then that goes against what the show is about.

True. But that is what comes to the heart of the topic- when is the damage become something that is more troubling then any of the other good things that are shown. I think, unfortunately, that people have a tendency to remember the bad over the good.

Legion
Don't make me release the monkeys!!
 
N276AASTT
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:00 am

Quoting Legion242 (Reply 24):
But that is what comes to the heart of the topic- when is the damage become something that is more troubling then any of the other good things that are shown.

That is the "fine line" that WN is walking right now with program. It's a risk, a risk that this program, and what is shown on it, will make people think of them in more of a negative or positive way. This is probably one of the bigger issues WN HQ had about this when the idea was pitched to them. Would it change people's minds about WN favorably or not? Each person will take away something different about the show after seeing it. Either feeling better about WN and how they handled a certain situation or worse.

Quoting Legion242 (Reply 24):
I think, unfortunately, that people have a tendency to remember the bad over the good.

I agree with you, I said that earlier.
Dejale Caer tu el Peso! YOMO
 
Tornado82
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:16 am

Quoting N276AASTT (Reply 20):
Every carrier has it's problem pax/issues. Does your girlfriend not like UA as well? A while back UA made the news when a man took a dump on one of their carts or just recently another man took a piss in the aisle.

I think you missed my post prior to your's N276AASTT...

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 15):
There's the problem... what the show puts the spotlight on. For that matter, with cameras floating around, wouldn't surprise me if some people purposefully act like idiots just trying to get on TV. Every airline has its share of idiots, but none of the others get a TV show to put the spotlight on them.

She actually likes UA because of Channel 9, because she thought it was interesting to listen to... and that's coming from a non-av geek. But you miss my point... UA isn't putting a spotlight on the guy taking a crap... WN is allowing cameras to publisize these clowns on their airline. I just don't see how Airline (from what I've heard from her, and here on A.net, along with the 20 nauseating minutes I watched it once) is benefitting Southwest. If I ran an airline, or even with my favorite airline Continental which I own just a couple shares in... I'd be awfully upset if they let those cameras putting the spotlight on every idiot that ever walked up to my counters.

I conceded every airline has its share of clowns already. I had one on my last Continental mainline flight, CLE-IAH, bitching up a storm because he's NW Elite and they wouldn't even give him an exit row, let alone an upgrade. Well, sorry buddy, the flight was 100% full... I doubt the CSA's are going to move people with their boarding passes in hand when you came running up to the podium as the flight was in the last rows of boarding. Luckily for me (sarcastically) the asshole was sitting in the E seat of the row where I was the F. I found out he wasn't even scheduled on the flight, but his connecting flight into DTW was late enough that he missed his NW DTW-IAH flight, and they squeezed him on a puddle jump to CLE then a CO flight to IAH at the last second to at least get him there in the same day. Yet he had the nerve to bitch up a storm about an exit/upgrade. As he continued to bitch I told him that if I was working in CLE I would have given him his new boarding pass with the name "Asshole, Pompous Mr." and while printing it allowed the plane to push back without him. He didn't bother me for the rest of the flight then, after telling me to fornicate with myself.  Smile
 
ScottB
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:54 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 21):
LCC's were designed for leisure pax from their conception. Adaptations to business routes were a fringe benefit.

That's simply not true in Southwest's case. Their first routes were business routes: Dallas-Houston, Dallas-San Antonio, & Houston-San Antonio. The flight attendants in hot pants were a nod to the same sort of business culture that made business lunches at the "gentleman's clubs" acceptable. For most of the 1980's, Southwest's marketing slogan was "The Company Plane."

Of course Southwest gets lots of leisure passengers as well, but a lot of folks forget that LAS is a popular business destination given the number of conventions the city hosts every year. Not to cast aspersions on anyone's home town, but Southwest is the largest carrier (by passenger count) at a lot of places that most would not consider "leisure destinations" -- like AMA, MAF, ALB, OMA, TUL, OKC, PVD, LIT, BWI, LBB, MHT, ELP, BHM, SDF, SMF, ONT, etc. Florida entered their route system in relatively recent times -- just under ten years ago -- and their presence in intra-Florida travel is again targeted at business passengers.

To get back on topic, there's an old saying that "all publicity is good publicity." From what I understand, most of the feedback to Southwest's management from the public has been good; viewers have been favorably impressed by the way Southwest's employees deal well with difficult situations/passengers.
 
Indy
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:57 am

This is a small sample but I know 3 people that have watched the show and all 3 said they wouldn't fly WN. In my opinion it is bad PR for them. They should focus more on the good PR that comes from their sponsorship of the show Extreme Makeover Home Edition.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
N200WN
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:09 am

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 7):
Sorry if I offended anyone, just my

No offense taken. I work at Southwest and I agree with you.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 9):
She probably doesn't know the diff between a DC9 and a 757... and thinks winglets are just for decorations like hood ornaments.

You better educate that girl before you marry her  Smile

BTW - Tell her not to worry about flying Southwest. The "Airline" crew has to do A LOT of footage just to get the few weirdo's on each episode.
 
bcbhokie
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:30 am

I intentionally skipped the rest of this thread before posting because I wanted my response to be unbiased - I think Airline enhances Southwest's image. Enhances as in it makes you just feel more of what you already do about the airline.

If you hate Southwest, it gives you more reasons to hate them - look at the low class people they fly!
If you love Southwest, it gives you more reasons to love them - look at the awesome corporate culture and employees Southwest has!

I think on the whole, it's probably about a wash for the airline - but any publicity is good publicity, so they say, and with Southwest's philosophy of direct-to-consumer sales, even if a few more people find out about the airline or are reminded to check them for fares, it was completely worthwhile.

Ben
 
Kahala777
Posts: 1513
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:14 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 21):
LCC's were designed for leisure pax from their conception. Adaptations to business routes were a fringe benefit.

Absolutely False!

From its entrance to the Sacramento market, Southwest Airlines was geared for the business market. The Sacramento market is completely O/D with the only airline offering Sacramento connections being Southwest Airlines. In addition Sacramento is heavily supported by demand for government commuting traffic. At current the following is Southwest Airlines Sacramento schedule:

SMF-BUR
10 Flights Daily

SMF-LAS
7 Flights Daily

SMF-LAX
10 Flights Daily

SMF-MCI
1 Flight Daily

SMF-MDW
1 Flight Daily

SMF-ONT
12 Flights Daily

SMF-PDX
6 Flights Daily

SMF-PHX
7 Flights Daily

SMF-SAN
14 Flights Daily

SMF-SEA
4 Flights Daily

SMF-SNA
7 Flights Daily

From that roster you have 79 flights per day in what was once United Airlines stronghold territory. Southwest Airlines has taken United Airlines traffic in the market, and in saying so has become the airline of choice for government commuters in the Sacramento and California markets.

KAHALA777
 
Tornado82
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:27 am

I hate getting into pissing matches over Biz vs Leisure when I was actually trying to remain positive about WN in just saying that they are getting a bad rap from "Airline." I guess now that I've been branded a Southwest hater if I even show up in a thread with Southwest in its name I catch shit. Similar how if I mention PHL in a thread, The guy named after an old Chevy, or a constellation, searches PHL + Tornado82 to come get on me for that.

That said...

Quoting BCBHokie (Reply 30):

If you hate Southwest, it gives you more reasons to hate them - look at the low class people they fly!
If you love Southwest, it gives you more reasons to love them - look at the awesome corporate culture and employees Southwest has!

Agreed. Although my girlfriend was, to borrow a Southwest catch phrase (I think) "Passionately Neutral" towards Southwest, until watching Airline.

Quoting N200WN (Reply 29):
You better educate that girl before you marry her Smile

BTW - Tell her not to worry about flying Southwest. The "Airline" crew has to do A LOT of footage just to get the few weirdo's on each episode.

She also calls Continental's ERJ 135's "Cute little midget jets." I've got some work to do. She has clicked on here a few times knowing how much I'm addicted to this, I hope she doesn't see it, or I'm in trouble. haha.

But the point is that's what an average person just watching Airline for the comic value sees from it. If United, Frontier, or anyone else were on there I'm sure public perception would be exactly the same. I'd still like to see Airline at Newark at Continental's ticket counters, or Airline at Philly at USAirways, on crappy weather days. Actually a CO vs US might be kind of interesting in that case. Everyone knows that not every WN pax is like that, but they never highlight the boring passengers like I would have been in Philly on Friday... come with a boarding pass already printed so avoid ticketing, get on, sit down, buckle up, and wait for permission to turn on my iPod.
 
lincoln
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:37 am

Quoting Legion242 (Reply 10):
But just as often, I see an ugly side of their model. First and foremost is the caliber of their clientele. I fly a fair amount during the year and have NEVER seen anyone too drunk, too dirty, etc to fly.

You know, the realization I had while watching Alrline the other night was the key sponsor was Jaguar... Which tells you something about the income of the average Airline-watching household.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 21):
LCC's were designed for leisure pax from their conception. Adaptations to business routes were a fringe benefit.

I was going to dispute this in the case of Southwest, but others beat me to the punch. Also worth noting is the Pacific Southwest Airlines (PSA), widely regarded as /the/ first Low Cost Carrier, and who Southwest drew large amounts of inspiration from* primary route was high frequency SAN-LAX-SFO for business travelers

Lincoln
* - I've read, and a former-high-level PSA executive has confirmed to me in an email, that Southwest people "shadowed" PSA employees, and Southwest's original operating manual was essentially the PSA manual with a Southwest cover (remember at the time -- with regulation in full swing PSA was intra-California only and Southwest was going to be intra-Texas only so no fears about competition)
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
goingboeing
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:44 am

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 33):
* - I've read, and a former-high-level PSA executive has confirmed to me in an email, that Southwest people "shadowed" PSA employees, and Southwest's original operating manual was essentially the PSA manual with a Southwest cover (remember at the time -- with regulation in full swing PSA was intra-California only and Southwest was going to be intra-Texas only so no fears about competition)

Oh TxAgKuwait...where are you????
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:51 am

I think the show only serves to reinforce Southwest's image as an airline for the Average Joe.

The flying public, in general, loves their style.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
joeman
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:01 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 26):
As he continued to bitch I told him that if I was working in CLE I would have given him his new boarding pass with the name "Asshole, Pompous Mr." and while printing it allowed the plane to push back without him. He didn't bother me for the rest of the flight then, after telling me to fornicate with myself.

Way to go!!! Some people need to get leveled.
 
N200WN
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:09 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 32):
I guess now that I've been branded a Southwest hater if I even show up in a thread with Southwest in its name I catch shit

Relax...your point of view is always welcome on WN threads (as is everyone else's).
 
N200WN
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:21 am

Quoting Goingboeing (Reply 34):
Quoting Lincoln (Reply 33):
* - I've read, and a former-high-level PSA executive has confirmed to me in an email, that Southwest people "shadowed" PSA employees, and Southwest's original operating manual was essentially the PSA manual with a Southwest cover (remember at the time -- with regulation in full swing PSA was intra-California only and Southwest was going to be intra-Texas only so no fears about competition)

Oh TxAgKuwait...where are you????

Lincoln is actually correct. Read the following excerpt from "The Tale of Two Men, One Airline, and a Cocktail Napkin." This is a really cool history book that Southwest used to give to new hires.

...Rollin expounded on his new idea. "Herb," he said, "just listen a minute. As an intrastate carrier we wouldn't be subject to CAB restrictions, and that offers all sorts of blessings and benefits right there. Oh, I know, a lot of intrastate carriers have had a hard time, but they weren't in the right states. You got to have a commercially booming state with some really big cities far enough apart to make a bus or car travel inconvenient. Offhand, I can't think of but two states like that. California's one - and that's why Pacific Southwest Airlines and Air California are going great guns as intrastate carriers. The other state is Texas, Herb, and we don't have an airline like that."
 
ikramerica
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:31 am

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 7):
Kahala777, I'd have to disagree. As someone who's never flown WN, I'm not looking forward to it after watching the show. For example, showing on national TV the idea of overbooking flights and leaving passengers stranded on standby is not a form of positive advertisements.

The show does nothing to make me ever want to fly WN. Also the long lines I always see outside T1 at LAX don't do it for me either. Since that's my airport, WN isn't my airline.

Quoting Goingboeing (Reply 8):
This question was asked of her, and she replied that while it sometimes makes her cringe, the response to Southwest from the general public has been overwhelmingly positive.

What do you expect her to say?

Quoting Legion242 (Reply 22):
One can't really blame her. These are the facts that are given to her and that is what she bases her opinion on. No one has denied that these things don't happen on other airlines and if UA was the subject, she might come to the same conclusion.

But one must still wonder why WN would be comfortable with these sorts of issues being so predominate on the programme. I can guarantee you that Tornado's g/f is not the only one creating these opinions.

Exactly. Just because it "happens to every airline" doesn't mean the public knows that. But by constantly showing it on Airline, it sure seems like it happens on WN more. And I'm sorry, but I also have never seen some of the types of pax Airline features on my CO flights or AA flights or DL flights. Not to say everyone is "high class" or whatever on those carriers, but there are some really scary people on Airline that I've only seen on WN.

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 33):
You know, the realization I had while watching Alrline the other night was the key sponsor was Jaguar... Which tells you something about the income of the average Airline-watching household.

I guess the rich people like to:

A. watch "poor" people make fools of themselves (most viewers of the show)
B. like to save money on last minute fares and think the show is fun (my brother, who's rich)

So for the B group, WN already has their business. For the A group, they never will get it. In that respect, the show seems neutral. Won't sway either group.

It's group C (like the above girlfriend mentioned) that I think will only be swayed to the negative side. I can't see anyone who's not flown WN before watching that show and being sold on WN as a carrier they would want to frequent.

So I hope WN gets a lot of money from the contract.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:15 pm

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 2):
Well for some of those CSA's, I'd say it definitely helps

Not all of them, Colleen has the biggest ass. She should hide that thing somewhere!  butthead 

Airline doesn't show anything we don't already ne1000w. Flights that are oversold and if you don't check in on time you lose your seat. Drunk pax that have to make total asses out of themselves and the always funny pax that threatens to call his or her lawyer like that will do anything. I used to watch every week but now I watch once in a blue and nothing has changed.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
ckfred
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:50 pm

I think "Airline" cuts both ways. On the one hand, it shows that WN has very professional staff that try to be accomodating, when possible, and diplomatic when they can't.

On the other hand, it gives viewers the impression that many passengers on WN don't fly regularly and don't understand how the U.S. aviation system works. I've seen people question how WN can sell more seats than available on the plane, drunks who think that think they have an absolute right to get on an airplane, and people who don't understand the concept of weather delays ("It's sunny here. Why can't we go?).

I do think that WN has the highest rate of involuntary bumping in the industry. If not, it's among the top three. It seems to me that WN passengers just aren't willing to volunteer their seats, despite the fact that WN is far more generous than other airlines with the compensation.

I've been on UA and AA flights that needed volunteers, and sometimes, gate agents needed to raise the compensation to get volunteers. But I've never seen a gate agent telling a passenger, that he won't get on a plane.

It just makes me wonder why WN passengers don't want to give up their seats. I was once waiting for a UA flight to ATL from ORD. At the next gate, a 777 for DEN was overbooked, and it was doubtful that UA could get the volunteers out of ORD that evening, unless a connection at DEN could be shifted to SFO. The gate agent had no trouble getting volunteers.
 
goingboeing
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:55 pm

Quoting N200WN (Reply 38):
Rollin expounded on his new idea. "Herb," he said, "just listen a minute. As an intrastate carrier we wouldn't be subject to CAB restrictions, and that offers all sorts of blessings and benefits right there. Oh, I know, a lot of intrastate carriers have had a hard time, but they weren't in the right states. You got to have a commercially booming state with some really big cities far enough apart to make a bus or car travel inconvenient. Offhand, I can't think of but two states like that. California's one - and that's why Pacific Southwest Airlines and Air California are going great guns as intrastate carriers. The other state is Texas, Herb, and we don't have an airline like that."

True enough, they may have cited PSA and Air Cal...but the post I was replying to said that the ops manual for SWA in the early days was PSA's with a Southwest cover on it. Tex is in a position to set that straight.
 
lincoln
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:46 am

Quoting Goingboeing (Reply 42):
but the post I was replying to said that the ops manual for SWA in the early days was PSA's with a Southwest cover on it

I would love to have a Southwest long-timer confirm or deny this, but just for reference here is one of the blocks of text that I was referring to

From http://www.smilinjack.com/cgi/ultima...bb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000012 :

Quote:
In 1973, a Texan came out to San Diego. His name was Herb Kelleher, and he worked for Southwest. PSA showed him the entire operation, and told all their department heads to 'open up everything' for Herb. (Tom Irwin was sent to Dallas with manuals in hand. Southwest was so impressed that they took PSA's name off the manual, stuck their name on, and made it their manual.)

This is not the first or only place that I've read that information so I suspect that it is true, but again, I would appreciate it if someone sets me straight if I am incorrect.

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
slider
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RE: Does "Airline" Hurt Or Help WN's Image?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:07 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 6):
Do you honestly think that American, United, Delta, or Northwest would want Airline to be filming their moves?

Probably not, but it doesn't matter. When this show first launched, I thought it would be a great outreach and educational tool to teach passengers and the general public about the crap airline employees go through, and teach them more about the policies of airlines. Far too often, they show the predictable delayed flight, town drunk, whatever, but don't do an off-camera shot or narrative explaining some of the inner workings--I wished they had done that.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 9):
Airline seems to feature on the problem-pax, and since it does, it gives the perception that only troublemakers fly WN... hence her distaste.

I can understand that perception--whether accurate or not, it does reinforce the "poor white trash" notion.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 26):
As he continued to bitch I told him that if I was working in CLE I would have given him his new boarding pass with the name "Asshole, Pompous Mr." and while printing it allowed the plane to push back without him. He didn't bother me for the rest of the flight then, after telling me to fornicate with myself.

LOL!! That's classic man!

Quoting BCBHokie (Reply 30):
If you hate Southwest, it gives you more reasons to hate them - look at the low class people they fly!
If you love Southwest, it gives you more reasons to love them - look at the awesome corporate culture and employees Southwest has!

I think on the whole, it's probably about a wash for the airline - but any publicity is good publicity, so they say, and with Southwest's philosophy of direct-to-consumer sales, even if a few more people find out about the airline or are reminded to check them for fares, it was completely worthwhile.

Great post Ben- that's it in a nutshell really.