mkeflyer717
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Midwest Grounds MD-80s (Huge Delays)

Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:30 am

There have been many cancellations at MKE today but not because of the snow. I just saw on the news that today Midwest grounded their MD-80s because of an inspection problem. The problem was that the airline failed to inspect captain seats and they decided to ground all the aircraft to be safe even though it doesn't seem to severe. Through MKE's website there are about 9 Midwest cancellations and plenty (20-30) delays tonight. That's all I know, does anybody have a link to the story or any other further information? Sorry my details are kind of sketchy.
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n917me
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RE: Midwest Grounds MD-80s (Huge Delays)

Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:34 am

To: All Midwest Airlines Employees
Date: December 14, 2005
From: David Reeve
Subject: Service Inspection of MD-80 Fleet


Midwest Airlines is currently conducting a service inspection on our fleet
of 13 MD-80 aircraft. As a result, several flights may be delayed or
cancelled pending the completion of the inspections. All impacted
passengers will be accommodated on other flights.

This is a technical compliance issue. The aircraft may be flown but may
only be used in scheduled service after the inspections are complete.

The inspection involves the pins that adjust the pilot seats and is the
result of a routine Federal Aviation Administration airworthiness directive
and subsequent amendments requiring inspection over an 18-month period.
When we realized today that our fleet was included, we voluntarily notified
the FAA and began the inspections to bring our fleet into compliance.

The necessary inspection work is expected to take less than two hours per
aircraft. Most, if not all, aircraft will resume service later this
afternoon. We expect the entire MD-80 fleet to be back in service by the
end of the day.
 
StuckInCA
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RE: Midwest Grounds MD-80s (Huge Delays)

Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:40 am

Quoting N917me (Reply 1):
When we realized today that our fleet was included, we voluntarily notified
the FAA and began the inspections to bring our fleet into compliance

Am I understanding this correctly in that someone simply didn't "realize" they needed to do this (put it on a schedule or something)? I'm thinking this person should possibly freshen up their resume.
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Midwest Grounds MD-80s (Huge Delays)

Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:50 am

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 2):
I'm thinking this person should possibly freshen up their resume.

Perhaps the word "freshen up" isn't quite right, more like "pad," "fudge," or possibly "leave certain details out."
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September11
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RE: Midwest Grounds MD-80s (Huge Delays)

Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:26 am

Quoting N917me (Reply 1):
The inspection involves the pins that adjust the pilot seats

where are the pins located? Are they seen in these two photos of M80 cockpit seats?


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Tornado82
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RE: Midwest Grounds MD-80s (Huge Delays)

Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:49 am

Can you imagine if this happened at Delta or American? That would be alot of MD80's.
 
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mke717spotter
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RE: Midwest Grounds MD-80s (Huge Delays)

Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:52 am

well....you sure had me scared there for a second with that title......but overall good news that it wont last long
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roseflyer
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RE: Midwest Grounds MD-80s (Huge Delays)

Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:22 am

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 2):
Am I understanding this correctly in that someone simply didn't "realize" they needed to do this (put it on a schedule or something)? I'm thinking this person should possibly freshen up their resume.

Yeah this was a major mistake by the maintenance staff. Some how Midwest maintenance wasn't keeping up with the airworthiness directives. Not a good thing at all. At least YX admitted the problem and took immediate action to remedy it. If they didn't then the would be in some serious pain.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 5):
Can you imagine if this happened at Delta or American? That would be alot of MD80's.

This type of directive happens to every plane, so it is not isolated to MD80s. I would hope that a maintenance operation the size of AA's or DL's would be able to prevent this mistake from happening.

Overall I am happy that YX is trying its hardest to fix the problem and not continue operating when it should not.
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sideflare75
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RE: Midwest Grounds MD-80s (Huge Delays)

Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:38 am

OK here's the deal. This inspection did not start out as an AD but it turned into one somewhere along the line. Unfortunately the person or persons who are supposed to catch it didn't. It was due in October I think.

The inspection is to ensure enough pin engagement on the fore and aft adjustment of the cockpit seats to ensure the seat doesn't slide on it's own once locked. All planes will be done tonight if they aren't already.

I'm sure we will be helping out the FAA's budget over this mistake.
 
n917me
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RE: Midwest Grounds MD-80s (Huge Delays)

Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:44 am

I am sure the FAA will just issue an investigation letter, and give a warning.. no fines. Usually if the carrier admits fault and it is a first occurence (minor)they give a "slap on the hand"
 
sideflare75
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RE: Midwest Grounds MD-80s (Huge Delays)

Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:27 pm

I disagree but we will see. Add up all the flights on the MD-80's between October and December. That is alot of violations. Sure this was a relatively minor thing with the cockpit seats but what if it had been something major and we just forgot to do it. I think we will be fined. I hope not but I think we will.
 
md90fan
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RE: Midwest Grounds MD-80s (Huge Delays)

Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:28 pm

When will their MD-8X fleet be replaced?
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airtran737
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RE: Midwest Grounds MD-80s (Huge Delays)

Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:12 pm

Quoting Sideflare75 (Reply 8):
OK here's the deal. This inspection did not start out as an AD but it turned into one somewhere along the line. Unfortunately the person or persons who are supposed to catch it didn't. It was due in October I think.

The inspection is to ensure enough pin engagement on the fore and aft adjustment of the cockpit seats to ensure the seat doesn't slide on it's own once locked. All planes will be done tonight if they aren't already.

I'm sure we will be helping out the FAA's budget over this mistake.

Well hopefully somebody gets fired for this. This could have cost Midwest a lot of money, money that could have ben spent on something much better than an FAA fine. Kudos to Midwest for thr self disclosure, Sidflare, can you tell us how many flights were canceled or delayed because of this oversight?
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qqflyboy
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RE: Midwest Grounds MD-80s (Huge Delays)

Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:51 pm

The whole key to avoiding fines here is Midwest's self disclosure. Very rarely are airlines fined when they self disclose a compliance issue. As long as Midwest can prove they have a solid plan in place to avoid issues like this in the future, the FAA is likely to hang around a little more and make sure that plan is working. Fines are unlikely.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Midwest Grounds MD-80s (Huge Delays)

Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:00 pm

Quoting September11 (Reply 4):
where are the pins located? Are they seen in these two photos of M80 cockpit seats?


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[Edited 2005-12-15 09:06:28]
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Dokken10
Posts: 286
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RE: Midwest Grounds MD-80s (Huge Delays)

Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:24 pm

Quoting September11 (Reply 4):
where are the pins located? Are they seen in these two photos of M80 cockpit seats?

HAWK21M is correct about the location. You can't see them in the pictures you posted. I can't think of any other pin in the seats that would cause a grounding of the fleet or an AD. I think that the pins and tracks are the same on MD-80s and DC-9s. I know that the holes in the tracks wear out as do the pins and have to be repair or replaced. If it is just the pins that have to be replaced 2hrs. is plenty of time to inspect and replace. If it is the tracks that need to be inspected and need to be fixed or replaced it will take more than 2 hrs. These pins and track have cause some problems in the past for the pilots. Imagine taking off and the seat slides back.
 
Dokken10
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RE: Midwest Grounds MD-80s (Huge Delays)

Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:43 pm

The effective date is 4/19/04 and a 18 month window to comply. This means that Midwest did not inspect these pins. Looks like someone dropped the ball.
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Midwest Grounds MD-80s (Huge Delays)

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:07 pm

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 12):
This could have cost Midwest a lot of money

It already HAS cost Midwest a lot of money in the form of flight cancellations...
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HS748
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RE: Midwest Grounds MD-80s (Huge Delays)

Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:20 pm

Quoting Sideflare75 (Reply 8):
OK here's the deal. This inspection did not start out as an AD but it turned into one somewhere along the line. Unfortunately the person or persons who are supposed to catch it didn't. It was due in October I think.

This also suggests that the FAA issues directives then does absolutely nothing to ensure compliance, waiting instead for carriers to own up. That's an incredibly dangerous system in my opinion.
 
AirEMS
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RE: Midwest Grounds MD-80s (Huge Delays)

Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:40 am

Hats off to YX it's great seeing a company not trying to cover up or blow off mistakes. I like that they didn't try to pawn blame off on someone else.....

Quoting N917me (Reply 1):
The inspection involves the pins that adjust the pilot seats and is the
result of a routine Federal Aviation Administration airworthiness directive
and subsequent amendments requiring inspection over an 18-month period.
When we realized today that our fleet was included, we voluntarily notified
the FAA and began the inspections to bring our fleet into compliance.

Have any other airlines in the past "voluntarily notified the FAA" on other problems?? or is this a first

again hats off to YX  trophy 

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sideflare75
Posts: 417
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 2:30 pm

RE: Midwest Grounds MD-80s (Huge Delays)

Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:46 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 12):
Sidflare, can you tell us how many flights were canceled or delayed because of this oversight?

Sorry I'm not at work right now so I can't say for sure. I know it was most if not all of the afternoon out and backs, along with the return flights from LAX and LAS for sure, since those planes were ferried home. A couple planes were to be done yesterday afternoon so the planes could do some flights.

I still think we will be fined. Self disclosure is only used because you sure don't want the FAA to find out about it later without you telling them. This is a serious violation. Yes the AD might have been for something minor but what if it wasn't????
 
slider
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RE: Midwest Grounds MD-80s (Huge Delays)

Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:56 am

Quoting N917me (Reply 1):
When we realized today that our fleet was included, we voluntarily notified the FAA and began the inspections to bring our fleet into compliance.

When we realized?

Jeez- someone really screwed the pooch on this one!!!

That's a pretty high level of incompetence. I hate that for YX as it reflects very poorly on them.
 
access-air
Posts: 1576
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RE: Midwest Grounds MD-80s (Huge Delays)

Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:27 am

Oh please guys...cut them some slack.
Sometimes the FAA can change rules and not notify everyone and something that was legal one day becomes illegal the next.
Dissemination of directives is the responsibility of the FAA or the DOT...
Complying with directives is the responsibility of the carrier.

Quoting Slider (Reply 21):
That's a pretty high level of incompetence. I hate that for YX as it reflects very poorly on them.

No, Incompetance would be continuing flying these aircraft when they knew that the seats needed to be inspected and nothing was done.

Access-Air
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HS748
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RE: Midwest Grounds MD-80s (Huge Delays)

Fri Dec 16, 2005 4:33 am

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 22):
Dissemination of directives is the responsibility of the FAA or the DOT...
Complying with directives is the responsibility of the carrier.

And who is responsible for ensuring the airlines comply?
 
sideflare75
Posts: 417
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 2:30 pm

RE: Midwest Grounds MD-80s (Huge Delays)

Fri Dec 16, 2005 4:34 am

An update from Midwest:

If you are a manager, please communicate this information to employees
without e-mail.


To: All Midwest and Skyway Airlines Employees
Date: December 15, 2005
From: David Reeve
Subject: Update: Extension for Service Inspection of MD-80 Fleet

We have received an extension from the Federal Aviation Administration to
complete the required MD-80 service inspections that affected operations
yesterday. This morning all of our fleet has returned to service and
operations are back to normal.

Unfortunately we had to cancel 17 flights yesterday. Our thanks to all the
customer service folks who did their best to reaccommodate as many
passengers as possible.
 
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airportugal310
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RE: Midwest Grounds MD-80s (Huge Delays)

Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:25 am

Just saw a Midwest MD80 charter pull into Terminal B at BOS Logan...

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