ChiGB1973
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TZ Update, Looking Good!

Sun Dec 18, 2005 4:36 am

This is from Shannon Stebbens, ATA's manager of charter ops.

"...our plan is to utilize seven B757 aircraft and four L1011 aircraft for Military and Commercial Charter flying. This could increase by one B767 aircraft if one becomes available. The Asiana B767 that we were negotiating for is not available at a rate that will allow it to be economically viable for us.

We are also looking at the possibility of performing the upcoming D Check for L1011, tail number 194. Should the decision be made to perform this scheduled maintenance check, our desire is to replace the existing engines with newer 524B engines. No final decision has been made at this point.

L1011, tail number N162AT is back in revenue service from D Check. Tail number N163AT entered D Check on 1 December 2005. It is tentatively scheduled to return to revenue service on 23 January 2006. The feed back from the crews who have flown N162AT post D Check indicate that it looks like a new airplane and flies great.

We have filed an application with the FAA to obtain World Wide Ops Spec Operations Authority for the B737-800 aircraft. This authority will allow us to aggressively pursue additional International Commercial and Military Charter flying opportunities for the B737-800 fleet. If we are successful in finding additional Charter flying for this fleet, it could conceivably result in the retention of additional B737-800 airframes and the corresponding crew positions."

I certainly hope it all works out for ATA and their employees!

M
 
wjcandee
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RE: TZ Update, Looking Good!

Sun Dec 18, 2005 4:41 am

Well, the engines were the issue for 194at. That's a creative solution that could keep their biggest airframe flying.

Best,

Bill

PS Photos of 162at as it finally came out? That would be nice!

[Edited 2005-12-17 20:42:59]
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: TZ Update, Looking Good!

Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:22 am

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 1):
PS Photos of 162at as it finally came out?

I'm gonna work it Wednesday morning. It'll be dark, but I'll see what I can do ..
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jacobin777
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RE: TZ Update, Looking Good!

Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:50 am

unfortunately, from what I've read here however, they are ending their MDW-SFO route...as that was my secondary choice... Sad
"Up the Irons!"
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: TZ Update, Looking Good!

Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:55 am

This is the same guy that was trying to get us those "cherry" ex-Saudia L-1011s that were sitting in the desert on only 600K/month operating leases...sheesh!

He also takes some liberty with reality. 194 is NOT going to be D checked and was already decided. He can hope all he wants, but it "aint gonna happen".

I don't understand the "we" part either. Flight Ops guys don't get to decide our fleet makeup, thank God. These guys were running around last summer saying we were getting 747-200s for pete's sake!

As for 162, she was here in Indy for several days on the hangar ramp but I didn't have my camera with me to take any shots. She looks good, but a little bare without some sort of logo.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: TZ Update, Looking Good!

Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:00 am

All of that may sound good for their charter business, but I think their scheduled service is very much on the line. After the upcoming route cuts take affect, there won't be much of a scheduled airline left. Something like 60 flights a day.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
KarlB737
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RE: TZ Update, Looking Good!

Mon Dec 19, 2005 12:23 am

 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: TZ Update, Looking Good!

Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:20 am

While I do not disagree that the scheduled service pare-down is risky, these analysts never give any reasons why they think the codeshare won't work. Southwest is arguably one of the most well-run airlines in the country, let alone the world and everyone knows that their current business plan hinders them from servicing certain markets(i.e. heavily slot-controlled LGA, DCA, Hawaii, international, overwater/ETOPS, etc.). So why is offering this type of service for them so risky or has no future?

There are also a couple of things that are wrong or left unmentioned in the article. One is that the enhanced codeshare details have not been disclosed which is not really true. Southwest will now start selling and marketing our local flights through there website and the frequent flyer programs will be linked. ATA also has exclusivity rights to fly in certain markets for them.

The other missing fact in the article is that the scale down of sched ops was a condition of the bankruptcy financing deal with Matlin Patterson. If ATA had not agreed to these changes, there almost certainly would have been a Chapter 7 liquidation and the end of the company. I fail to see how ATA had any other choice and at least now we have a chance to fight another day.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
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STT757
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RE: TZ Update, Looking Good!

Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:14 am

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Thread starter):
our plan is to utilize seven B757 aircraft

What is the make up of that fleet, it's either all 757-200s or 4 757-300s and 3 757-200s?
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
wedgetail737
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RE: TZ Update, Looking Good!

Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:29 am

Are the 737-300/500 aircraft in service yet?
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: TZ Update, Looking Good!

Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:05 am

The 757 charter fleet will probabaly be the 4 753s and 3 of the 6 752s.

As for the 733s/735s, we are not getting any 735s and only 3 733s. These 3 (N401-403TZ) have been delayed several months, but are now scheduled to be on the Ops Spec mid to late Jan. 2006. The delays have been in the issuance of the galley/interior reconfiguration STC. This is normal for the first one of its type to run into problems in the modification/certification process. AAR Indianapolis is doing the work and has been horribly slow and disorganized which contributed to the delays also.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
wjcandee
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RE: TZ Update, Looking Good!

Mon Dec 19, 2005 4:27 am

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 10):
AAR Indianapolis is doing the work and has been horribly slow and disorganized which contributed to the delays also.

So much for using a domestic MRO instead of one of those evil foreign MROs. Think Cascade or Marshall or others would do that kind of job? I had hoped that AAR would be able to make something out of the former United facility. Guess not.
 
474218
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RE: TZ Update, Looking Good!

Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:14 pm

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Thread starter):
We are also looking at the possibility of performing the upcoming D Check for L1011, tail number 194. Should the decision be made to perform this scheduled maintenance check, our desire is to replace the existing engines with newer 524B engines. No final decision has been made at this point.

Its just not as simple as replacing the RB211-22B engines with 524B engines. You would be creating a L-1011-200 i.e. L-1011-385-1-15, Lockheed has a Service Bulletin to accomplish this but you would have to pay them to add s/n 1230, N194AT, to the Service Bulletin effectivity list. To do this for just one aircraft only would be very expensive.
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: TZ Update, Looking Good!

Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:01 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 12):
Its just not as simple as replacing the RB211-22B engines with 524B engines. You would be creating a L-1011-200 i.e. L-1011-385-1-15, Lockheed has a Service Bulletin to accomplish this but you would have to pay them to add s/n 1230, N194AT, to the Service Bulletin effectivity list. To do this for just one aircraft only would be very expensive.

You are correct Carl. It was studied and found not to be cost effective, so I don't know why this has come up again.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
wjcandee
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RE: TZ Update, Looking Good!

Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:05 pm

World Holdings just announced today that it has agreed to lease a FIFTH 767-300 for North American Airlines (its subsidiary). A fourth is coming in mid-2006 and the fifth will now come in December 2006.

Given the difficulties that ATA has had finding suitable 767-300ER aircraft, I am wondering how NAA has managed to find two, for essentially the same mission that ATA was seeking them. Do those in the know have information about where World is getting these birds? Are they ones that were rejected by ATA? Does NAA, as a long-time profitable company, have the ability to command better terms for their aircraft, or did they just work out a deal on an aircraft that was never offered to ATA?

Curiously,

Bill

(I will stop asking to see photos of 162AT. I'm assuming that it just hasn't looked interesting enough for anyone to photograph and post. Sigh.)

[Edited 2005-12-20 07:05:51]
 
typhaerion
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RE: TZ Update, Looking Good!

Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:48 pm

Bill,

Now you know that isnt true. She looks real sharp in her new color scheme. She would look better with tags on her, but not having those is not a huge detriment.

Let me tell you, not only is she looking like a champ now, but from the reports I have been seeing, she is flying like a champ as well. I do not have an adequate camera for this, otherwise I would be doing the photos. The real issue is having the camera when she is in town, he normal routing takes her very far abroad.

When someone get some pics up, you will see just how good she is looking. Until then, you will just have to use your imagination....  biggrin 

As far as the 767s, the issue is price. We cannot get the birds cheap because we do not have the credit that World does. They have it, and therefore get more compeitive pricing. That will change when the 787s come out in earnst, so it may be until then that the L1011s will be flying for us. We will see.
For some, the sky is the limit. For us, it is only the beginning... -- Jack Hunt
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: TZ Update, Looking Good!

Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:58 pm

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 14):
Given the difficulties that ATA has had finding suitable 767-300ER aircraft, I am wondering how NAA has managed to find two, for essentially the same mission that ATA was seeking them.

World has a great credit record. ATA has a crappy credit record. World is in a good negotiationing position with the big guys wille the only one who will talk ro ATA is 'Joe's Used Aircraft', and even 'Joe' charges premium rates for the risk.

I'll see 162 in the early AM and I'll bring a tripod to hopefully get some decent pictures in the dark
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FRA2DTW
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RE: TZ Update, Looking Good!

Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:55 am

World/NAA's first 767, the one to be delivered in March or April, will be coming from KLM. Don't know about the second one.

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