NDSchu777
Topic Author
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 3:29 am

RR Or GE For Qantas 787's

Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:47 am

While the battle between Airbus and Boeing over Qantas is finally over, the battle over which engines will power thoses QF 787's is just beginning. Anyone have any ideas on which way this one will go?

Both manufacturers have about an equal interest from the airline industry. So far ANA, Air New Zealand, Northwest, and LOT all went with the Trent 1000. After a slow start, lately the GEnx has been picking up a few orders. They were selected by First Choice, Continental, Air Canada, Air India, RAM, JAL, and Korean.

Now it will be interesting to see which way Qantas will go. I see it going either way. Qantas has a sizeable RR and GE fleet and doesn't seem to have a major preference for one over the other. I'm sure that Qantas will use this fact to get the two companies to aggressively compete and give Qantas a good deal on their engines, just like they did with Boeing and Airbus for the airframe.

Anyone else have any thoughts?
 
boeingbus
Posts: 1509
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 12:37 am

RE: RR Or GE For Qantas 787's

Sun Dec 18, 2005 6:21 am

I don't think Qantas necessarily cares so much on the brand but the pricing, maintenance and product. Like the B and A competition, they are going to wring out the best pricing from both. Should be an interesting comeptition.

If had to pick one of the two... my bet is on GE.

Simply has to do with known fact that they will eventually need a 747 replacement... so watch for a 773ER or 748 order soon or both.

Also, one requirement in their RFP is which engine is going to support future variants best in 10 years time... So technical aspects of the engines are very important for QF.

Maybe at the Singapore Airshow in Feb an announcement on engine choice and longhaul will be released??? Great time for it...

Cheers,

Ric
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23206
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: RR Or GE For Qantas 787's

Sun Dec 18, 2005 6:24 am

What does QF use now?

If it is RR or GE, that might sway them a bit, but since the bleedless GENx 787 engines and the bleed-air GENx 748I engines might not share all that much in parts (to say nothing of the GENx vs. GE90), a QF leaning toward possible 773ER/748I orders may not affect their 787 engine order all that much.
 
NDSchu777
Topic Author
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 3:29 am

RE: RR Or GE For Qantas 787's

Sun Dec 18, 2005 7:09 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
What does QF use now?

Qantas has the following engine configuration of its large commercial fleet:

A380 (On Order): RR Trent 900
747-400ER: GE CF6-80C2
747-300/400: RR RB211
A330: GE CF6-80E
767-300: GE CF6-80C2
737-300/400: CFM56-3
737-800: CFM56-7
717: BR700

So overall they have a pretty mixed fleet of GE and Rolls, just like they do with Boeing and Airbus. Their management probably uses this fact to their advantage to make their suppliers compete head-to-head and give Qantas the best possible deals, as we just saw with the 787 order.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
a QF leaning toward possible 773ER/748I orders may not affect their 787 engine order all that much

However, you have to recognize the two big 787/777 orders at AC and AI went with GE. The fact that the airlines were already going with GE90 on their 777's gave GE an advantage. They were already working on an agreement for the GE90s and I bet throwing in the GEnx made it a very large order for GE and allowed them to be much more willing to negotiate a better deal.

If Qantas is still considering the 772LR/773ER, they may be able to use that fact to get a good deal. However right now it's a 787-only order.

At the end of the day whichever company makes the deal that makes the sense to QF's management will win the deal.

[Edited 2005-12-17 23:10:34]
 
Gemuser
Posts: 4348
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: RR Or GE For Qantas 787's

Sun Dec 18, 2005 7:19 am

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 1):
Simply has to do with known fact that they will eventually need a 747 replacement... so watch for a 773ER or 748 order soon or both.

I suppose i depends on how you define "soon" but QF DO NOT need a 744 replacement "soon". IMHO it is at least 2 years away.

The oldest 744s ARE being replaced by A380s, so the age of the 744 fleet is not relevant.

The A380s start arriving in early 07, I doubt we will see any movement on further 744 replacements untill late 07/ early 08, after they have real knowledge of the A380. Then it will be time to decide on more 748/A380 purchases.

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
User avatar
PM
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: RR Or GE For Qantas 787's

Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:38 am

Quoting NDSchu777 (Reply 3):
However, you have to recognize the two big 787/777 orders at AC and AI went with GE. The fact that the airlines were already going with GE90 on their 777's gave GE an advantage.

There's almost certainly some truth in this but it's never a foregone conclusion. ANA already had GE-powered 773ERs on order and large fleets of CF6 767s and 747s when they chose RR for their 787s. ANZ is also a GE operator (767s and 747s) and they've taken options on 773ERs but they too chose RR. Qantas has long relationships with both GE and RR. I'd say it's too close to call.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23206
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: RR Or GE For Qantas 787's

Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:43 am

Quoting NDSchu777 (Reply 3):
However, you have to recognize the two big 787/777 orders at AC and AI went with GE. The fact that the airlines were already going with GE90 on their 777's gave GE an advantage. They were already working on an agreement for the GE90s and I bet throwing in the GEnx made it a very large order for GE and allowed them to be much more willing to negotiate a better deal.

True. There is some speculation going on that, since the RR and GE engines are easily swappable ("plug and play", so to speak), that QF will play each side off against the other as they did Boeing and Airbus to land the best deal.

I understand GE offers "Power by the Hour" deals now like RR does, correct?
 
egmcman
Posts: 729
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 6:28 pm

RE: RR Or GE For Qantas 787's

Mon Dec 19, 2005 5:18 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
I understand GE offers "Power by the Hour" deals now like RR does, correct?

Through their involvement in BA's Airbus IAE powered NB order yes they have experience of this kind of deal.