sean377
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CO In Talks With Newcastle

Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:18 pm

From last nights local newspaper:

Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man... Landing is the first!
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: CO In Talks With Newcastle

Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:21 pm

Well, that didn't take long!  Wink
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
MYT332
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RE: CO In Talks With Newcastle

Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:24 pm

"This is a hugely successful airport"

What a quote. Let's hope CO take NCL seriously then, they've been good with MAN in the past so good luck to them.
One Life, Live it.
 
Cory6188
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RE: CO In Talks With Newcastle

Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:13 pm

Spring 2007? Would it really take that long for CO to jump in at NCL?
 
dutchjet
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RE: CO In Talks With Newcastle

Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:17 pm

Not really a surprise, CO has been looking at NCL for years as part of its UK regional airport niche market......other UK airports have gotten service first due to better incentive packages and the like. Many at CO were surprised when BRS and BFS were announced before NCL. The AA annoucement put NCL on the back-burner, but there was still discussion that CO was looking at NCL even after AA announced the proposed route.

CO would have no problem making NCL work with a daily 752 service to its EWR hub....it fits in with their scheme to offer nonstop service to the NYC area and onestop service to all of North America from smaller European cities with the very effecient, right sized 752. Lets see if NCL comes up with a package that tempts CO to the NE of England.

Quite frankly, my opinion is CO can make NCL work on a long term basis.....AA would have dropped NCL within months of its launch (if the AA service went forward). Nothing against AA, the key to making routes like NCL work is to offer service to major, well placed hub city......AA simply does not offer enough connection possibilities at JFK and would have been relying far too much on O&D traffic between NCL and the NYC area. Also, CO has the benefit of offering a small, but extremely profitable J class cabin on its 752 flights....that really helps the bottom line.
 
sean377
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RE: CO In Talks With Newcastle

Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:54 pm

A couple of quick questions:

1. What does O&D mean?

2. What are the different classes (J class, Y class, etc)?

Thanks

Sean
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man... Landing is the first!
 
A319XFW
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RE: CO In Talks With Newcastle

Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:57 pm

J class is business class and Y is economy.

I suppose they are seeing quite high load factors for these European routes. Anyone know what kind of load factors they are actually getting?
 
dutchjet
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RE: CO In Talks With Newcastle

Mon Dec 19, 2005 12:01 am

Quoting Sean377 (Reply 5):
A couple of quick questions:

1. What does O&D mean?

2. What are the different classes (J class, Y class, etc)?

Thanks

Sean

O&D = origin and destination traffic.....pax not making enroute connections. Thus, in this example, O&D would include only pax travelling between NYC and Newcastle.

J class is business class (sometimes referred to as C class on certain carriers).
Y class is economy (note that pax in economy pay may different fares, but the Y class cabin is slang for the economy cabin).
F class is first class.
 
sean377
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RE: CO In Talks With Newcastle

Mon Dec 19, 2005 12:05 am

Thanks Dutchjet. I can see how they come up with F class, but J & Y???
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man... Landing is the first!
 
Cory6188
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RE: CO In Talks With Newcastle

Mon Dec 19, 2005 12:40 am

To be more specific,

F is always First Class, whether it be on a domestic flight or an international flight.

C is Business Class on carriers that have a three class aircraft, such as AA, BA, UA, etc.

J is the psuedo Business/First class that is a combination of the two. CO (BusinessFirst), DL (BusinessElite), VS (Upper Class), US (Envoy), and some SQ aircraft (Raffles) have this.

Y+ is Economy Plus, which a few carriers have. It's essentially economy with some more legroom and occasionally some more perks, such as elite checkin, boarding, and maybe a predeparture beverage.

Y is regular economy - cattle class - where the unwashed masses sit.

How the different classes ended up with C/J/Y/etc is another story, and quite honestly, I have no idea where they came from.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: CO In Talks With Newcastle

Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:08 am

Quoting Sean377 (Reply 8):
but J & Y???

I was always told

J = Just behind first !
Y= economy
 
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airzim
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RE: CO In Talks With Newcastle

Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:09 am

There are no hard and fast rules regarding letter designation for fare classes. The airlines can really do what they want. Although traditionally F and P have indicated First Class, J, C, D, Z for Business, R for Supersonic Class, and the remainder for Coach. I've heard C class was designated because C = Clipper Class on Pan Am.

Many airlines alliances are looking for common fare class structure across the alliance. Star has already starting moving in that direction. To add to the complexity some airlines like AA and DL have/had dynamic fare mapping based on bucket. So sometimes you see Y1, Y2, Y3, Y4, Y5, Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4 etc. These have meaning only for class allocation but not to ticketed class.
 
sean377
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RE: CO In Talks With Newcastle

Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:12 am

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 9):
where the unwashed masses sit.

Hey! That's me you're referring to. I always shower before travelling.

Y=economy The Y is always at the back???

Thanks for the explanations.
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man... Landing is the first!
 
dutchjet
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RE: CO In Talks With Newcastle

Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:12 am

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 9):
C is Business Class on carriers that have a three class aircraft, such as AA, BA, UA, etc.



Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 9):
J is the psuedo Business/First class that is a combination of the two. CO (BusinessFirst), DL (BusinessElite), VS (Upper Class), US (Envoy), and some SQ aircraft (Raffles)

This is not always the case, it depends upon the carrier.......some airlines use the C class designation for shorter haul business class services with the J reserved for longhaul business class. In other cases, some airlines simply use the J code while others select the C code. Same is true with F class.....some airlines use the P designator for longhaul first class services.

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 9):
Y is regular economy - cattle class - where the unwashed masses sit.

Now there is a controversial remark.....more than 85% of pax sit in economy, and in many cases, even biz travellers are flying economy due to their company's reguations. And dont forget that lots of folks sitting upfront are actually part of the unwashed masses (to use your term).....they are sitting upfront only due to upgrades afforded to them by the airline due to their FF status.

Quoting Sean377 (Reply 8):
Thanks Dutchjet. I can see how they come up with F class, but J & Y???

F is obvious. Some F class services are sold as P class, P meaning premium. A is also used for first class service......a zillion years ago, A was prop first class while F was jet first class

Y, I have been told, comes from economY.....maybe its true, I dont know. Y was originally for jet economy, T was prop economy (T for Tourist........economy or coach was once commonly referred to as tourist class). Seats sold in B,H,K,Q,V,W and some other codes are all economy seats sold at different fare levels.

C was originally for Club Class (BA's term for biz class).......in some parts of the world, biz class is referred to as Club, whether on BA or another airline. D is discounted C class. As for J, I think it was just a letter that was available.
 
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STT757
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RE: CO In Talks With Newcastle

Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:24 am

As mentioned where CO succeeds with their European routes is the fact that they not only utilize EWR as a gateway the NYC Metropolitan area but it's also a gateway to the whole United States whether it's Honolulu, Seattle or Albuquerque (all nonstop).

CO can fill the front cabin with Business travelers to NYC, and the rear cabin with families heading to Orlando, Los Angeles, Phoenix and Las Vegas etc..

On trips to Los Angeles and even Cancun from EWR I've noticed British Families traveling along on holiday, many seem to stay a couple Days in NY before traveling on to the "main" holiday spot like Orlando or the West Coast.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Cory6188
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RE: CO In Talks With Newcastle

Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:38 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 13):
Now there is a controversial remark

I was joking - sorry if I insulted anyone.
 
Amazonphil
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RE: CO In Talks With Newcastle

Mon Dec 19, 2005 4:19 pm

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 9):
F is always First Class, whether it be on a domestic flight or an international flight.

"A" is sometimes used for First Class as well domestically or Int'nally

amazonphil
If it ain't Boeing, I ain't goeing!
 
2travel2know
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RE: CO In Talks With Newcastle

Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:40 am

Greatnews for NCL.
Other than NCL, CO should aslo be in talks with ABZ, LBA, STN/LTN, CWL...
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
slider
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RE: CO In Talks With Newcastle

Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:12 am

I'd like to see STN and I do think that'll happen, but NCL would be a very nice market I think (just a hunch).

EWR-NCL would work with a 752.

CO is just filling the UK...I love it.
 
CALMSP
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RE: CO In Talks With Newcastle

Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:15 am

yes i would love to see STN back!!!
 
vegas005
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RE: CO In Talks With Newcastle

Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:19 am

Who cares..point x to point x....nobody gives a damn
 
goCOgo
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RE: CO In Talks With Newcastle

Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:40 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 17):
CWL

Probably not considering they already serve BRS, a mere 27mi away by great circle, and the BRS flight isn't exactly packed.
"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
 
S12PPL
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RE: CO In Talks With Newcastle

Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:47 am

Wonderful editing job of the article.

I wonder how many drinks were pounded back in celebration before writing this article?????
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
sevenair
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RE: CO In Talks With Newcastle

Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:59 am

This is fantastic news for my community! SO exciting!I hope it all goes through, though im telling you now, it's pointless putting on a business class service, it won't get many punters, we are far too thrifty here  Smile If available, and all economy version would be good, but obviously, you cant just reconfigure a plane to serve just one airport (unless its those quick change seats). I hope this works, and Il soon be onmy way non-stop from Newcastle to New York
 
Coronado990
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RE: CO In Talks With Newcastle

Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:05 am

Quoting Amazonphil (Reply 16):
"A" is sometimes used for First Class as well domestically or Int'nally

"A" is usually a "Y" upgrade fare. Pay full coach, get a first class seat.
Uncle SAN at your service!