OPNLguy
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Mike Boyd's 12/19 DFW/AA Wright Comments

Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:56 am

Love him or hate him, he's got some funny stuff this week...

http://www.aviationplanning.com/asrc1.htm

(Scroll down a little past the SRQ blurb...)
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
wjcandee
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RE: Mike Boyd's 12/19 DFW/AA Wright Comments

Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:08 pm

Classic. He's a good writer. And while I disagree with him from time-to-time, he's right on the money here. I particularly like the load factor graph regarding LGB. Oops.

Thanks for sharing.
 
CMHSRQ
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RE: Mike Boyd's 12/19 DFW/AA Wright Comments

Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:05 am

Man he blasts everyone, its a great read.
The voice of moderation
 
dagolden1
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RE: Mike Boyd's 12/19 DFW/AA Wright Comments

Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:04 am

Very well put!! I don't think anyone is buying the crap that AA is putting out.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Mike Boyd's 12/19 DFW/AA Wright Comments

Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:26 am

Gotta love it. Even the politicians aren't buying into it.
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atrude777
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RE: Mike Boyd's 12/19 DFW/AA Wright Comments

Tue Dec 20, 2005 2:18 am

Hahaha ya I love it he speaks the truth here in this one.

Alex
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Kahala777
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RE: Mike Boyd's 12/19 DFW/AA Wright Comments

Tue Dec 20, 2005 2:51 am

Sounds like American Airlines is starting to play the blame game. That airline seems more like a spoiled brat everyday.

KAHALA777
 
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RE: Mike Boyd's 12/19 DFW/AA Wright Comments

Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:02 am

Hell, as much WN bashing as I've done on here, even I have to admit that's a good article that puts things into the right perspective.
"Just because I know how to get off a freeway doesn't mean I know how to get back on!" - Retard Joe
 
Okie
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RE: Mike Boyd's 12/19 DFW/AA Wright Comments

Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:21 am

Dallas Love Field aka " The Death Star " puhlease, but guess which Herb gets to dress as Darth Vadar at next years Halloween Party.

AA needs to get back in the business of selling seats on airplanes, they do not seem to do very well in the political arena, before they turn DFW into the "Temple of Doom and Gloom" Big grin

Good article!

Okie
 
aaway
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RE: Mike Boyd's 12/19 DFW/AA Wright Comments

Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:12 am

Frankly, I was shocked at AA's response on this. I'd been expecting a move to DAL prompted by the removal of Wright, if that were to occur. Not due to Missouri.

As a result, I'll even sing with the choir on this one. Besides achieving self-prophesy, it appears AA is going to use capacity thats marginal in revenue production and/or redundant systemically (LGB) to support Love. Essentially, AA is moving system subsizdation to DAL.

This reaction to MCI and STL is wasteful and disingenuous.
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RE: Mike Boyd's 12/19 DFW/AA Wright Comments

Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:21 am

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 1):
I particularly like the load factor graph regarding LGB.

Very informative. I would like to know more on the numbers. Does anyone know? By that graph, ONT should be expanded! (But maybe the load factor is high due to ONT being unable to fill any more aircraft?)

Quoting CMHSRQ (Reply 2):
Man he blasts everyone, its a great read.

Boyd's Christmas cheer was missing from that post. He did wind up and slap everyone in the room. What was with the star wars analogies? Hey, amusing!

While I often disagree with Boyd, I do have one question. He mentions B6 could do LGB-DFW. If he is suggesting that there must be some demand to DFW on a non-bub basis. Is there enough of an O&D to support this market? Ok, I know people who have done the flight to go visit relatives, but is there enough to fill an A320? I'm too aware no E190's this coast for a bit. Personally, I think the slots would be best used elsewhere. LAX and SNA are just too close to LGB... But then again, B6 into DFW would be a new twist on the Wright fight. (Don't think it will happen, I'm fishing for more information.)

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ckfred
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RE: Mike Boyd's 12/19 DFW/AA Wright Comments

Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:33 am

For the most part, Mike Boyd is right. But there are a couple of points to consider. First, DAL may not be as nice an airport as DFW, but what is to stop the City of Dallas from deciding to renovate the commercial facilities? Twenty years ago, MDW was a dump of an airport. But the City of Chicago spent $1 billion to build a brand new terminal and concourse complex. Admitedly, the security checkpoint is a choke point, and the baggage claim is not laid out well in terms of traffic flow. But it is a much better facility than the old one.

What's to prevent Dallas from continued lobbying to repead the WA, then have JetBlue and Southwest commit funds to the building of a new terminal?

Second, according to friends of mine who live in Dallas, DAL is more convenient to the business district of Dallas than DFW. ORD and MDW are about the same driving time during non-rush hour, but during rush hour, the drive time to MDW to or from the Loop is usually quicker, even though the Kennedy goes right into ORD, while driving to MDW involves exiting at Cicero Avenue and dealing with traffic lights.

A friend of mine is a pilot with AA. He doesn't think AA can do well at DAL, but on the other hand, if AA didn't launch its counterstike service out of DAL, it would lose traffic to to MCI and STL.

He thinks management is simply trying to send a message to Southwest. Back off on the Wright Amendment, and we will leave you alone. Keep pushing repeal, and you will see many silver jets at DAL.

Remember, airlines feel that certain routes are their turf. Any time UA or AA added a flight on ORD-ATL, DL added 2 or 3 flights, usually with 757s. When DL or UA tried to add flights on ORD-DFW, AA went to 21 daily departures each way.
 
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RE: Mike Boyd's 12/19 DFW/AA Wright Comments

Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:51 am

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 11):

He thinks management is simply trying to send a message to Southwest. Back off on the Wright Amendment, and we will leave you alone. Keep pushing repeal, and you will see many silver jets at DAL.

A less costly option for WN then jumping over to DFW where they would instantly face even more silver jets.

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 11):
Remember, airlines feel that certain routes are their turf.

Groan... I'll let someone else explain the difference between pursuing profit and market share.

to change the tone, I liked one feature Boyd pointed out:

Quote:
D/FW has just opened the Skylink - a rail system that has turned what was a clunky 1970s multi-terminal design into one of the most connection-efficient and passenger-friendly airports in the nation.

It seems the #1 complaint I used to hear about DFW was the time it took to get to ones flight. Somehow, I'm not hearing those complaints anymore...  scratchchin  Also, the skylink was expected to boost the airport capacity. How? Allowing AA to have shorter banks, getting those aircraft back into the air that much sooner instead of waiting for pax to get from concourse C from a concourse in Oaklahoma.  duck 

DFW still has an amazing amount of growth ahead of it. I hope that new international terminal fills up.

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FCYTravis
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RE: Mike Boyd's 12/19 DFW/AA Wright Comments

Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:55 am

Yes, but I don't think WN really cares how many silver jets AA throws at WN, because AA will go broke matching Southwest's fares.

AA can't bleed WN dry like it did to Braniff, Vanguard and Delta. WN has too much money, too many jets and too many passengers to simply brush off.

Every Mad Dog that AA sends over to DAL at near-WN fares is a Mad Dog that's not flying at AA's usual fares. AA can't afford to do much of that. Moreover, they don't have enough planes to do that without dragging some out of the desert (with what money?) or cutting even more flights out of the DFW hub... hey, look, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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OPNLguy
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RE: Mike Boyd's 12/19 DFW/AA Wright Comments

Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:03 pm

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 13):
Every Mad Dog that AA sends over to DAL at near-WN fares is a Mad Dog that's not flying at AA's usual fares. AA can't afford to do much of that. Moreover, they don't have enough planes to do that without dragging some out of the desert (with what money?) or cutting even more flights out of the DFW hub... hey, look, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Well, there goes your future at AA management...  Wink
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
FCYTravis
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RE: Mike Boyd's 12/19 DFW/AA Wright Comments

Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:51 pm

That's OK, I fly HP/US these days  Wink
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ckfred
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RE: Mike Boyd's 12/19 DFW/AA Wright Comments

Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:18 am

Everyone keeps saying that AA can't compete with WN because of costs, but how true is that? Go to Airlinepilotcentral.com and compare the pilot payscales for WN and AA. A captain with 12 years of seniority makes $190 an hour at WN, while the same captain at AA makes $158, and an MD-80 captain makes $154. And who knows how much WN's pilots will ask for, when contract negotiations open next year.

I assume that F/A payscales for WN are also higher than at AA.

There was a very interesting article several weeks ago in the Chicago Tribune. Mike Boyd was quoted as saying that when jet fuel is taken out, Southwest is not that much better than other LCCs or even Legacy carriers in terms of costs. In fact, Frontier has lower costs, without jet fuel.

As for airlines defending their turf, a lot of businesses play that game. In 2000, Lowe's announced that it wanted to enter the Chicago market within 6 to 12 months. Home Depot went out and bought or leased every empty space it could get its hands on. Lowe's wound up pushing its Chicago entry back by more than 3 years. Talk about Home Depot defending its turf.
 
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RE: Mike Boyd's 12/19 DFW/AA Wright Comments

Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:43 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 15):
That's OK, I fly HP/US these days



Quoting Ckfred (Reply 16):
Go to Airlinepilotcentral.com and compare the pilot payscales for WN and AA. A captain with 12 years of seniority makes $190 an hour at WN, while the same captain at AA makes $158, and an MD-80 captain makes $154. And who knows how much WN's pilots will ask for, when contract negotiations open next year.

You have a good point. However, WN pilots fly many more hours than an AA pilot. Benefits are a huge portion of pay.

Quote:
According to the airline's analysis, American is among the least-productive carriers when measured by hours flown each year by pilots.

Pilots at American will fly an average of 608 hours each in 2005, according to the analysis.

Their counterparts at Continental Airlines fly 754 hours each, on average, while Delta Air Lines pilots fly 664 hours.

Pilots at low-fare leader Southwest fly 766 hours annually.

from: http://www.airportbusiness.com/artic.../article.jsp?siteSection=3&id=4498

FYI, I do like AA. Its just obvious they have more cost cutting to go. Don't get me wrong, I'm impressed how far they've come so far!  bigthumbsup  They are a step ahead of almost every other Legacy in terms of efficiency. (IIRC, only CO beats AA in efficiency.) If the Maddogs were to get a more efficient engine... AA would be unstoppable!

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RE: Mike Boyd's 12/19 DFW/AA Wright Comments

Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:04 am




Quoting Ckfred (Reply 16):
Everyone keeps saying that AA can't compete with WN because of costs, but how true is that? Go to Airlinepilotcentral.com and compare the pilot payscales for WN and AA.



If you want to accurately compare and contrast the operating costs of two or more airlines, you really need to look at the whole picture...not just pilot and F/A pay.




Quoting Ckfred (Reply 16):
Mike Boyd was quoted as saying that when jet fuel is taken out, Southwest is not that much better than other LCCs or even Legacy carriers in terms of costs.



I believe they are. From my experience at WN, every single expenditure, from jet fuel to cans of Coke to office supplies, was viewed by employees as an opportunity to save money. In Flight Ops, we consciously saved and reused paper clips. Everyone I worked with shared a strong passion to help the company succeed, and each did his or her part to cut costs.

Individually, it may not make much of a difference. Collectively....well, show me another airline that's been profitable for 30+ years.  Wink




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DTWorBust
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RE: Mike Boyd's 12/19 DFW/AA Wright Comments

Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:45 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 13):
Every Mad Dog that AA sends over to DAL at near-WN fares is a Mad Dog that's not flying at AA's usual fares. AA can't afford to do much of that. Moreover, they don't have enough planes to do that without dragging some out of the desert (with what money?) or cutting even more flights out of the DFW hub... hey, look, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I thought the article was thought provoking, definitely slanted, but thought provoking! Obviously someone at AA sees this short term sacrifice as a long term pay off, all decisions are made with the bottom line in mind and as much as we all think there are ego plays involved, there is another explanation.

I also read a thread on a different bored that attributed some of the AA flight shifts to other system changes and load factors, etc. As someone here said, there is no way that *all* those changes are directly related to the move to Love.

Stay tuned for details!
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