YYZ4RADD
Topic Author
Posts: 121
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SV, EK And UL To YYZ By Next April 2006?

Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:30 pm

Hey all,

Not to start a rumor but a flight agent friend of mine told me recently that SV, EK and UL are planning to run YYZ flights beginning April 06.

Can anybody confirm this?

Speaking of SV it will be good for Hajj flights.

For EK, this is not new but it was never confirmed. They did open an office in Toronto recently along with UL (which is good for the local UL community here).

Regards,
YYZ4RADD
 
sebring
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RE: SV, EK And UL To YYZ By Next April 2006?

Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:39 pm

EK can't get in until there is a new bilateral agreement between UAE and Canada. That hasn't happenned yet, and goodness knows if there are even talks. The word I hear is that the Canadian government does not feel very motivated at present to extend EK the daily rights it has been seeking. Informal exchanges of views have taken place, and nothing more has transpired. By the way, a number of airlines have offices in Toronto. It means nothing. Turkish doesn't fly to Toronto but has a large ground floor ticket office and signage in an office tower on University St.
 
behramjee
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RE: SV, EK And UL To YYZ By Next April 2006?

Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:27 pm

UL would codeshare with EK on the route 110%...however it is interesting to note that according to the Saudi-Canada bilateral treaty...SV can fly upto 3 weekly nonstop flights to YYZ from JED or RUH.

The UAE-Canada bilateral permits 6 weekly flights with no aircraft size restriction...hence the 3-3 division allocated to EK and EY. This was formulated on 17th June 2001 http://www.cta-otc.gc.ca/air-aerien/...ts/html/united_arab_emirate_e.html

Effective June 1st 2003, UAE airlines could fly upto 6 weekly flights to Canada so instead of being fools and demanding a daily flight...EK should have just taken the 6 weekly offer and made money of it as they could fly any aircraft size they desire. Their onward hub connections to Asia, Indian subcontinent and East Africa is far superior to EYs/GFs so they could have easily made decent money in YYZ.

Now with EY flying 3 weekly, it will be even more harder for EK to have the bilateral amended. When u get too greedy, it strikes u back in the face!!!

Dont be surprised to see Etihad launch a 4th weekly YYZ flight within 18 months time.
 
6thfreedom
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RE: SV, EK And UL To YYZ By Next April 2006?

Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:33 pm

Quoting YYZ4RADD (Thread starter):
EK and UL are planning to run YYZ flights beginning April 06.

UL doesn't have the aircraft to operate this flight.
Expansion plans have listen canada and Australia as new markets, but with no new aircraft, nothing is likely to happen before nov 2006.

For YYZ it would make sense for UL and EK to operate on a codeshare basis over DXB.

CMB-YYZ is 8704 miles compared to 8939 miles for CMB-DXB-YYZ.

So with a stopover of less than 1.5 hrs, the total difference in travel time would be around 2 hrs on a flight that is +12 hrs.
 
MSYYZ
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RE: SV, EK And UL To YYZ By Next April 2006?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:39 am

Another Airline is trying to get permission to fly to YYZ , it is Egypt Air . For some reason the Canadian authorities granted MS flights to Montreal only , almost 3 years ago , since then MS is trying hard to fly to Toronto with no luck .
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sebring
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RE: SV, EK And UL To YYZ By Next April 2006?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:56 am

I also believe Air Canada doesn't have the aircraft until 2007 to add DxB or anywhere else in the Middle East Were the obstacles stalling a YUL-BEY service to fall by the wayside, I suppose AC might find a 763, but for any Gulf service, AC would need a larger, longer-range widebody (340 or 777) and would need fifths beyond to another point in Asia beyond the Gulf to make it economical. To date, UAE/EK has not shown an interest in granting such fifth freedoms, and to the best of my knowledge, the Canadian government has told EK and its demands for daily service to "bugger off".
 
MSYYZ
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RE: SV, EK And UL To YYZ By Next April 2006?

Fri Dec 23, 2005 6:37 am

It would be great to see Emirates in Toronto , i have heard that Etihad is doing great on the YYZ-BRU-AUH route .
The presence of EK would mean more competition less ticket prices and better deals for Pax .
Any news on any other international Airlines intersted in serving YYZ ?
A346,A343,A342,A332,A333,A310,A300,AB6,A319,A320,A321,B741,B744,B777,B767,B732,B735,B727,B707,B757,MD80,F-70,E-170,B738
 
behramjee
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RE: SV, EK And UL To YYZ By Next April 2006?

Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:03 am

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 6):
i have heard that Etihad is doing great on the YYZ-BRU-AUH route

Thats interesting because EY cancelled two of their YYZ bound flights in the same week (3rd week of November) due to horrible pax loads both ways!!!
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: SV, EK And UL To YYZ By Next April 2006?

Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:19 am

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 7):
Thats interesting because EY cancelled two of their YYZ bound flights in the same week (3rd week of November) due to horrible pax loads both ways!!!

While EY has had some high profile local advertising the route, perhaps SN Brussels who sells seats on the YYZ-BRU sector of the flight should do the same, to help beef up the loads. I have not seen a single ad promoting the only link between YYZ - BRU, and would wager that the load potential is greater on that sector than on YYZ - AUH.
Above and Beyond
 
trvyyz
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RE: SV, EK And UL To YYZ By Next April 2006?

Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:19 am

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 7):
Thats interesting because EY cancelled two of their YYZ bound flights in the same week (3rd week of November) due to horrible pax loads both ways!!!

EK will perform better because of its onward connections. EY flies only to a "dozen+/-" places as of now.
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: SV, EK And UL To YYZ By Next April 2006?

Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:37 am

Quoting TRVYYZ (Reply 9):
EK will perform better because of its onward connections. EY flies only to a "dozen+/-" places as of now.

True and considering the fact that a lot of people traveling to North America live in Dubai (like me for example) does not make things easier for EY. This is the best time for EK to act by adding 3 weekly flights to YYZ without any connections and put pressure on EY.
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: SV, EK And UL To YYZ By Next April 2006?

Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:46 am

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 10):
This is the best time for EK to act by adding 3 weekly flights to YYZ without any connections and put pressure on EY

EK should take what is offered for the time being to get their foot in the door. They have very high brand recognition in YYZ, and expect that they will make a killing on their flights in terms of loads, and most probably revenue.
Above and Beyond
 
behramjee
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RE: SV, EK And UL To YYZ By Next April 2006?

Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:54 am

Quoting TRVYYZ (Reply 9):

EK will perform better because of its onward connections. EY flies only to a "dozen+/-" places as of now.

Thats 100% true...EYs best connections from YYZ via AUH are to BOM, DEL, CMB and KHI only...but DEL in the fog winter season requires a 10-18 hour transit both ways for which EY gives a free hotel stay though.

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 10):
True and considering the fact that a lot of people traveling to North America live in Dubai (like me for example) does not make things easier for EY. This is the best time for EK to act by adding 3 weekly flights to YYZ without any connections and put pressure on EY.

If EK were'nt so arrogant, they had the liberty of flying upto 6 weekly "any aircraft size" to YYZ from 2003 onwards according to the Canada-UAE bilateral treaty...but they said daily or nothing and in response AC and Ottawa said "take it or leave it". This is the same attitude they displayed for CPT flights and lost there too.

EK would be welcomed and embraced massively in the YYZ market because of their excellent reputation here + a variety of onward connections to East/Southern Africa, Gulf, Indian Subcont and the Far East...plus decently sized O&D market between DXB and YYZ.
 
Kahala777
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RE: SV, EK And UL To YYZ By Next April 2006?

Fri Dec 23, 2005 9:21 am

Sri Lankan to Toronto will only happen as a codeshare operated by Emirates from Dubai. It would make near zero sense for Sri Lankan to enter the North American market, let alone Toronto. Saudia to Toronto? That is a novel idea, but the odds of it happening seem slim if none. Saudia could fly to Chicago, which heralds a much heartier connecting base of flights.

KAHALA777
 
trvyyz
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RE: SV, EK And UL To YYZ By Next April 2006?

Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:05 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 13):
It would make near zero sense for Sri Lankan to enter the North American market, let alone Toronto.

Not exactly. During Tsunami, I heard that the largest population of Srilankans outside Srilanka is in Canada. Not only that, Srilankan serves India more than Srilanka and to exaggerate a bit, serves India more than AI. AI basically caters to BOM & DEL. Also the rates are cheap and I have heard that their service is excellent.

So, UL could get a portion of the Indian traffic in addition to the Srilankans. Since EK is a Partner of UL, I wouldn't expect both to come here, but UL could get more rights to Canada compared to EK.
 
behramjee
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RE: SV, EK And UL To YYZ By Next April 2006?

Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:09 pm

Before this discussion goes any further it is worth mentioning that Canada doesnt have an Aviation bilateral agreement with Sri Lanka so there is no chance of UL flying to Canada and thats the bottom line.

The countries that however do and their respective features is given here :

http://www.cta-otc.gc.ca/air-aerien/agreements/main_e.html
 
trvyyz
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RE: SV, EK And UL To YYZ By Next April 2006?

Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:24 pm

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 15):
Before this discussion goes any further it is worth mentioning that Canada doesnt have an Aviation bilateral agreement with Sri Lanka .

Even I thought so, but would there be a reason to object if Srilanka opts for one.
 
behramjee
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RE: SV, EK And UL To YYZ By Next April 2006?

Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:36 pm

There shouldnt be any reason...knowing ACs lobbying in YOW the max allowed for UL would be 3-4 weekly flights...I bet is 3.

Even if that was approved, UL doesnt have an aircraft capable of flying such a long distance...even an A 343 would struggle to do DXB-YYZ-DXB with a full payload year round...therefore a stop enroute preferably for UL in BHX or MAN enroute to YYZ would be the ideal choice for UL.