AirUtopia
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2001 1:23 pm

Let's Consider A & B Rather Than A Vs B

Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:43 am

Human nature has a tendency to take sides - being an American of course I have a patriotic instinct to want to support Boeing at heart.

Many discusses in these groups have those who take sides in a 'A vs B' thinking.

Nothing wrong with that, but be that as it may...

We really should be thinking A and B - both companies are successful - and competition is good for us. Better and more efficient planes, level pricing, safety!

Just a reminder for the individuals who side frequently - thats ok - but competition is good - it makes the world go round - it makes us better!
Ambassadors to Aviation
 
smokeyrosco
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RE: Let's Consider A & B Rather Than A Vs B

Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:48 am

i agree, without the 380 we would not have the 747-8, like wise without the 787 we would not have a 350..... not yet at least.
John Hancock
 
mandala499
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RE: Let's Consider A & B Rather Than A Vs B

Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:44 pm

Nah, merge them... and start putting 752 engines and wings on the A321...

J/K

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
thegreatchecko
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RE: Let's Consider A & B Rather Than A Vs B

Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:53 pm

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 2):
Nah, merge them... and start putting 752 engines and wings on the A321...

Its probably not that bad of an idea....if you throw all the politics out of the question. They'd probably be able to make some pretty kickass products.

Interestingly, I bet that if you look at the suppliers of both Boeing and Airbus, I'd venture to say that many of them are the same. So does that make them all that different companies in the end.

GreatChecko
"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
 
MD11LuxuryLinr
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RE: Let's Consider A & B Rather Than A Vs B

Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:12 pm

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 2):
and start putting 752 engines and wings on the A321

No.. Get rid of the 321 and bring back the 757.. Right?  angel 

Quoting TheGreatChecko (Reply 3):
They'd probably be able to make some pretty kickass products.

They already do because of competition, no?
Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Let's Consider A & B Rather Than A Vs B

Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:34 pm

Heck, I still miss McDonnell Douglas and Lockheed. Remember when we had three big American airliner manufacturers?

Through the prism of nostalgia, there seems to be a certain rough-and-ready quality about DC-10's and L-1011's, compared to the current generation, which is obviously far more refined.

Even the Boeing 717, which shows its DC-9 roots, seems to harken back to an earlier age. I'll miss it when Boeing stops making it next year.

I guess that, in some ways, Boeing itself is the ultimate result of the synthesis between two former competitors.

I'd really miss Boeing and Airbus as separate entities if they decided to merge. Not to mention all the debates between A and B partisans.  Wink
What's fair is fair.
 
abba
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RE: Let's Consider A & B Rather Than A Vs B

Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:57 pm

Quoting Airutopia (Thread starter):
We really should be thinking A and B - both companies are successful - and competition is good for us. Better and more efficient planes, level pricing, safety!

Just a reminder for the individuals who side frequently - thats ok - but competition is good - it makes the world go round - it makes us better!

 thumbsup 

Ever thought of the funny thing that it is the supporting fans who are the only stable institution? No doubt that any Boeing employee and any Airbus employee would be happy to take a job in the other company (present contract and non-work related issues permitting) if the offer and prospects from the other were better than what the employee presently enjoys?

In this (rather narrow) sense is industry similar to sport where all the players and trainers would be happy - for nothing but worldly money - to play for the other team next season. In the real sense is sport and industry different as in sport it is about winning in order to earn money. In industry it is the other way around!

Abba
 
halls120
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RE: Let's Consider A & B Rather Than A Vs B

Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:14 pm

Quoting TheGreatChecko (Reply 3):
Its probably not that bad of an idea....if you throw all the politics out of the question. They'd probably be able to make some pretty kickass products.

I disagree. Without competition, products of the combined enterprise would suffer due to the lack of motivation to innovate.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
PlaneDane
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RE: Let's Consider A & B Rather Than A Vs B

Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:30 pm

Quoting TheGreatChecko (Reply 3):
Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 2):
Nah, merge them... and start putting 752 engines and wings on the A321...


Its probably not that bad of an idea....if you throw all the politics out of the question. They'd probably be able to make some pretty kickass products.

We tried that merging thing already with the VLA study years ago. Boeing said it wouldn't be a good idea and Airbus went ahead with it on its own anyway.

McDonnell Douglas tried teaming up with Airbus on the MD-12 with no luck either.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Let's Consider A & B Rather Than A Vs B

Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:39 pm

Regarding competition, I also have an interest in how the smaller manufacturers are constantly working to upgrade their products and modify them according to market needs. The Canadair Challenger, for example, seems to be a pretty nifty product line, and Canadair/Bombardier, ATR, Embraer, Dassault, etc., all seem to be going at it re: the regional jet market.

Just last night I checked out the website for the New Piper Co. and found some interesting facts about its newest products. It's amazing that the "glass cockpit" has made it even down to the level of personal aircraft.

Competition can be cool, as long as it's fair and people play by the rules.  

[Edited 2005-12-22 15:41:47]

[Edited 2005-12-22 15:55:48]
What's fair is fair.
 
deaphen
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RE: Let's Consider A & B Rather Than A Vs B

Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:42 pm

I agree totally, but i feel as true aviation fanatics that any aircraft, be it an airbus, boeing or tupulov(sp?) is just magnificent. I have read so many baseless A v B arguments on here. I would just have two worlds for people who are so vehemently agressive, GROW UP.

Thats my view  Smile
Competetion is for the companies, its for us to marvel at their achievements.

Deaphen
I want every single airport and airplane in India to be on A.net!
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Let's Consider A & B Rather Than A Vs B

Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:47 pm

Yes -- for example, as a Boeing fan, I do admit a grudging admiration for the A380's cockpit! It's seems like more of an executive office in the sky than anything else. Very 21st Century.

On the other hand, I love Boeing's philosophy of letting pilots have the final say on what an aircraft can do in the sky. It's the human factor -- to me, human beings are still more important than machines when making life-and-death decisions.

But reasonable people can disagree about matters of philosophy, and certainly the classic, proven cockpit, as updated, seems to hold as much promise as ever.

So both companies have found their ways to compete. May the best one win, and neither one lose too badly.  

[Edited 2005-12-22 15:48:05]
What's fair is fair.
 
smokeyrosco
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RE: Let's Consider A & B Rather Than A Vs B

Fri Dec 23, 2005 5:44 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 11):
May the best one win, and neither one lose too badly.

I like to think the best one will only be the best one for a few years, they can rotate the greatness.
John Hancock
 
Birdwatching
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RE: Let's Consider A & B Rather Than A Vs B

Fri Dec 23, 2005 6:24 pm

All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
 
AirUtopia
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2001 1:23 pm

RE: Let's Consider A & B Rather Than A Vs B

Sat Dec 24, 2005 11:25 am

Lots of laughs Birdwatch - good one.

"Without competition, products of the combined enterprise would suffer due to the lack of motivation to innovate" Halls120

I agree Halls120 - well said

Actually - a lot of good statements from the answers directly above.

I just think we should consider taking a view of global perspective instead of siding too much - we are in a much better environment because of the innovation brought on by competition.

Merry Christmas y'all!
Ambassadors to Aviation
 
smokeyrosco
Posts: 1441
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RE: Let's Consider A & B Rather Than A Vs B

Sat Dec 24, 2005 1:23 pm

Many Happy Returns



I had to go further because i was told to.....



Anywho




Merry Christmas EVERYONE
John Hancock
 
hb88
Posts: 760
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RE: Let's Consider A & B Rather Than A Vs B

Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:30 pm

Definitely a great idea, but you have to admit, the A vs B threads are hilarious - especially when the more vitriolic contributors get involved.

I don't contribute as I have an airbus.com email address (and am therefore completely lacking objectivity  Wink ) but do enjoy sitting back and watching the misinformation flow! It's fantastic entertainment but the signal/noise ratio often gets depressingly low.

For my part the existence of two major manufacturers does indeed foster intense innovation, which is a good thing for sure.