GroundStop
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DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:42 am

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/busin...3056.story?coll=orl-home-headlines

Delta to shut down two-thirds of gates at OIA

Beth Kassab | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted December 22, 2005, 3:28 PM EST


Delta Air Lines filed court papers this afternoon to shut down two-thirds of its gates at Orlando International Airport as part of its effort to emerge from bankruptcy.

If approved in New York bankruptcy court next month, Delta will shut down 16 of its 24 gates but said the change "does not signal a reduced commitment by Delta to the Orlando market," and it will not decrease its number of daily flights.

On average, Delta files 115 daily departures out of Orlando to 47 nonstop destinations. The carrier filed for bankruptcy protection in September.

Orlando is the first airport at which Delta has officially sought to decrease its number of gates.

Calls to Orlando Airport officials were not immediately returned this afternoon.

------------------------

Its about time. Most of those gates have gone unused since the DL Express days. Looks like there's gonna be some nice real estate available at MCO!!
 
NKMCO
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 9:04 am

Oh man, it would be so nice to see NK over there, especially now when there is non-stop MBJ from MCO and having to have gates at two separate airsides with no time between flights... Having all that in one airside would be nice.
 
toltommy
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 9:09 am

hmmmm.... 16 fewer gates, but no reduction in flying. If this is the way DL is going to play in bankruptcy, then they should never go to Vegas.

No reduction in flying, but 16 fewer gates? That would equal 14+ flights per day/per gate at the remaining 8. Not gonna happen. DL doesn't want to give up the gates, because someone WILL want them. But they want to pay less, hence the filing. It's a money move, and DL didn't play it right at all.

IMO the should've filed, and threatent to remove nonstop service from most non-hub markets. but they didn't. No big deal.
 
Tornado82
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 9:11 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 2):
No reduction in flying, but 16 fewer gates? That would equal 14+ flights per day/per gate at the remaining 8. Not gonna happen. DL doesn't want to give up the gates, because someone WILL want them. But they want to pay less, hence the filing. It's a money move, and DL didn't play it right at all.

How many of those 115 flights are RJ's? I would think a pretty significant %. Is it not possible to pull two CRJ's per gate at MCO, or maybe 3 CRJ's per 2 gates?
 
deltairlines
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 9:13 am

Keep in mind that many of the current flights are Connection, which I'm sure will continue using the 60A-Q (or whatever it is) gates. Truth be told, the last several times I've been at MCO (since 2004), I've only seen a DL plane at the 90-99 gates once, and the only gate I ever see Delta at on 80-89 is Gate 80 (first one on the left). Shouldn't be too hard to consolidate mainline operations into the 70-79 pier, probably make 80-89 a common use international gate area (and maybe see CO and NW move into 90-99?...would allow them to be close to DL, World Club/Presidents Club folk would be able to use the Crown Room, etc.).

Jeff
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 9:15 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 3):
How many of those 115 flights are RJ's? I would think a pretty significant %. Is it not possible to pull two CRJ's per gate at MCO, or maybe 3 CRJ's per 2 gates

That's exactly what I am thinking, mainline jets will probably use the gates w/jet bridges, but you could probably park more than 1 RJ at a gate, and I think a significant part of those 115 flts are on RJ's....
 
GroundStop
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 9:18 am

The majority of those flights are RJ's. All of the RJ's technically operate out of Gate 60, which has several doors marked A through J. That leaves seven gates for mainline and Song. If you look at an airside map, they will be keeping the wing that protrudes to the north as well as the commuter gate below the monorail line.
 
isitsafenow
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 9:24 am

Does this mean that Mickey will shift his allegiance to Herb?
Just kidding.........
safe
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InTheSky74
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 9:26 am

JetBlue has been searching for gates in MCO.... sounds like they can get the gates they wanted!

Rob
 
Kahala777
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 9:26 am

Quoting GroundStop (Thread starter):
If approved in New York bankruptcy court next month, Delta will shut down 16 of its 24 gates but said the change "does not signal a reduced commitment by Delta to the Orlando market," and it will not decrease its number of daily flights.

So in other words Delta Airlines wants the gates closed, suspended, and not given to any other airline until they have the money to do something with them? Sounds like a true American airline. However, look for a fight if the city of Orlando and another airline want to expand, bets are Delta will be the one left out in the cold.

Wasnt Delta Airlines trying to snake out of paying for gate space in Los Angeles not to long ago? Seems like the boys in Atlanta have some mighty high mountains to climb in a pair of oil greased shoes..


KAHALA777
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 9:35 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 3):
How many of those 115 flights are RJ's? I would think a pretty significant %. Is it not possible to pull two CRJ's per gate at MCO, or maybe 3 CRJ's per 2 gates?

Have you ever seen T2 at ORD? I think UA parks 4 at some gates. At least it looks that way lol.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 9:35 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 9):
So in other words Delta Airlines wants the gates closed, suspended, and not given to any other airline until they have the money to do something with them?

Where does it say that? DL wants to reject the leases and give them back to the airport authority. The airport authority would then be free to give them to whomever.

DL has way too many gates at MCO. There is no need for DL to be paying leases on gates they never use.
 
midway7
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 9:39 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 9):
If approved in New York bankruptcy court next month, Delta will shut down 16 of its 24 gates but said the change "does not signal a reduced commitment by Delta to the Orlando market," and it will not decrease its number of daily flights.

So in other words Delta Airlines wants the gates closed, suspended, and not given to any other airline until they have the money to do something with them? Sounds like a true American airline. However, look for a fight if the city of Orlando and another airline want to expand, bets are Delta will be the one left out in the cold.

I think when Delta says they are shutting down the gates, that is their way of saying that they are being returned to the City of Orlando.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 9):
Wasnt Delta Airlines trying to snake out of paying for gate space in Los Angeles not to long ago? Seems like the boys in Atlanta have some mighty high mountains to climb in a pair of oil greased shoes..

That's what the BK process is all about.
 
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STT757
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 9:50 am

From my memory of flying both DL and CO out of MCO I remember that the Air side 4 offered more "amenities" while Airside One was a little more sparse, it would be nice if CO would move to airside 4 which would have benefits people mentioned like President's Club members access to DL's Crown Room.
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Tornado82
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 9:53 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 10):

Have you ever seen T2 at ORD? I think UA parks 4 at some gates. At least it looks that way lol.

It's been years since I've been in MCO, and that was always US mainline, and once a private chartered 733 (HS band trip) at that. I kinda outgrew the whole Mickey Mouse scene, and if I'm going to FL now, I want a beach, not a mouse-infested swamp.  Wink That's why I asked, didn't know how the gates were at MCO and didn't want to make a false assumption.
 
b6sea
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 10:01 am

Hmm... I know during school break times those gates are pretty well utilized from what I can recall of being there in the late 90s but maybe they've backed off... Hopefully we see some more B6 or NK service out of those free gates. Any guesses on who'll move in?

-Chans
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 10:06 am

All the gates on the South end were always bustling with activity during the DLX days, and ever since they axed that operation, they've been mostly vacant- saw a few DL MD11's sitting idle there in 2003, but that's been about it- F9 was using one for awhile for some reason. I say, what's the point in keeping them if they're not going to be used? Save some extra money, but I'd be weary about B8 or other competiors taking them over- trade off I suppose.

DeltaGuy
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ScottB
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 10:12 am

Without being able to read the actual docket, here's my guess as to what the situation is:

Delta currently leases 24 gates in the Airside - 70-77, 80-87, and 90-97. Delta's Comair subsidiary likely leases the Gate 60 facility which is used for a large number of RJ boarding positions. Delta's current presence at MCO involves 42 mainline & Song flights; 8 gates ought to be more than enough for that. Comair is likely to retain its lease on the Gate 60 facility, so there will be limited impact to the RJ operations operated on Delta's behalf by OH, RP, and others.

I also was not under the impression that MCO was especially short on gates after the new airside had been built. One would imagine that the third wing of Airside 2 would have been built in that event.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:36 am

Remember since song is being rolled back in, there is no need for seperate gates. Even with Song....DL operated 95% of their flights out of the RJ gates and the gates in the 70's for a while no flights used 90-99 and only a handful of flights used the 80's. Delta has gotten better at turn times meaning a gate can reasonably do 8-10 flights per day so with 10 jet gates we are still talking 80-100 mainline flights. The days of an airline holding lots of unused realestate at airports are over. Ill bet CVG term A is next if they can do it.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
DeltaMIA
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:27 pm

DL would use the gates on a per usage fee say $25 per use or whatever the going rate is right now. This has become more common in the last 5 years among all the airlines. Obviously though with 8 of the jetways there use would be so great that it is best to keep the lease going. It doesn't make sense to pay $150/day for a jetway and use it once when you can use it once for $25.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
deltagator
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:44 pm

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 4):
I've only seen a DL plane at the 90-99 gates once, and the only gate I ever see Delta at on 80-89 is Gate 80 (first one on the left). Shouldn't be too hard to consolidate mainline operations into the 70-79 pier, probably make 80-89 a common use international gate area (and maybe see CO and NW move into 90-99?...would allow them to be close to DL, World Club/Presidents Club folk would be able to use the Crown Room, etc.).

You beat me to it. I was going to ask the same thing. Makes good sense for SkyTeam partners to be close together. The one thing that has bugged me about MCO sine they added the two eastern airsides is that you an't get to the original two without leaving the sterile are and going bak through security.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 13):
I remember that the Air side 4 offered more "amenities" while Airside One was a little more sparse,

Airside One was one of the first two built so yeah, it's a little old and busted.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
beertrucker
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:58 pm

There is one more thing to remember. Delta does do the largest ground handling of international flights. What this means is that the east part would be for delta/song. The south part would be for international flights and over flow delta/song flights. And the west side would be returned to the city of Orlando. Gate 60 is for the rj flights and is a big part in Orlando. But delta will not give up the international Gates at all cause they make a killing in the contracting out the ground handling of those international flights.

I will take a closer look at the terminal on Saturday when I am waiting for my flight to SLC. And will get back to you when I get back on the 27th.
Fly HI
 
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chrisnh
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 1:00 pm

Can we at least stop calling these airlines 'majors?' Given the path that airlines like United, American, Delta, USAirways have been on, there is nothing 'major' about them. All they've done is shrink.
 
crownvic
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 1:33 pm

How can you not call them "Majors". They are more major than ever....Major Disasters!
 
717-200
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 1:39 pm

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 22):
Can we at least stop calling these airlines 'majors?' Given the path that airlines like United, American, Delta, USAirways have been on, there is nothing 'major' about them. All they've done is shrink

The appropriate name for the above mentioned carriers should be
"no frills" especially in AA's case.
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beertrucker
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 1:44 pm

I think we getting a little off the topic here.
Fly HI
 
WDBRR
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 1:55 pm

Didn't the original Airtran in 1996 operate at one of these airsides before the merger with Valujet? maybe gates 70 - 77? I remember seeing them being surrounded by Delta.
 
beertrucker
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:05 pm

Quoting WDBRR (Reply 26):
Didn't the original Airtran in 1996 operate at one of these airsides before the merger with Valujet? maybe gates 70 - 77? I remember seeing them being surrounded by Delta.

If I remember I think they were over on the north A airside over near where ATA used to be on the east side of the concourse. I might be wrong about that but I do remember seeing them there at one point.
Fly HI
 
flyibaby
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:08 pm

Technically DL would still have a say in who gets the gates, even once they are returned to the airport since the airport is run by the signatory airlines.
 
beertrucker
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:15 pm

Quoting Beertrucker (Reply 21):
There is one more thing to remember. Delta does do the largest ground handling of international flights. What this means is that the east part would be for delta/song. The south part would be for international flights and over flow delta/song flights. And the west side would be returned to the city of Orlando. Gate 60 is for the rj flights and is a big part in Orlando. But delta will not give up the international Gates at all cause they make a killing in the contracting out the ground handling of those international flights.

I just did a little more looking. When Delta says they going to give back 2/3 of their Gates. I think you will find they will return the west side Gates back only I think delta meant as in Gates they use in mco. Not counting the Gates they own but are used for the international flights. Unless things have changed since the last time I was there and the international airlines have leased the Gates themselves and delta just does the ground handling. But last I knew the international flights actually kinda sub-leased the gates from Delta.
Fly HI
 
WDBRR
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:21 pm

Didn't US Airways give back like 7 gates in MCO several years ago during their bankrupty?
 
B6FAN
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:21 pm

Quoting InTheSky74 (Reply 8):
JetBlue has been searching for gates in MCO.... sounds like they can get the gates they wanted!

Rob

Negative. Today jetBlue just got 2 more gates . So they have a total of 4 gates. Those are gates 112, 111, 110, and 101. Right next to FL and WN.
JetBlue Airways...
 
flyibaby
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:52 pm

Quoting B6fan (Reply 31):
Negative. Today jetBlue just got 2 more gates . So they have a total of 4 gates. Those are gates 112, 111, 110, and 101. Right next to FL and WN.

Out of curiosity...are those old WN gates...or was there a shift of gates with the concourse expansion down on the AirTran end?
 
ClearedDirect
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:26 pm

Quoting Flyibaby (Reply 32):
Out of curiosity...are those old WN gates...or was there a shift of gates with the concourse expansion down on the AirTran end?

They are expanding the WN end as well - just about done.

CD
 
Lono
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:30 pm

I remember when DL said MCO was going to be DL land (13 year DL cool aid drinker).... " the 3rd largest DL hub"... to me this means DL is falling back once again... MCO is up for grabs.. DL is unable to protect this important market...... who wants it????
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
Guest

RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:36 pm

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 22):
Can we at least stop calling these airlines 'majors?' Given the path that airlines like United, American, Delta, USAirways have been on, there is nothing 'major' about them. All they've done is shrink.

Each of those carriers can cut another 50% of their flights and STILL have greater reach than any two LCC's combined.

They're the major leagues.

B

[Edited 2005-12-23 08:59:48]
 
MX757
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 7:13 pm

Quoting Lono (Reply 34):
MCO is up for grabs.. DL is unable to protect this important market...... who wants it????

MCO has always been a low yield market at least for CO. Competition, F/F cashing in their miles, and people connecting from other destinations have kept revenue down. I still hear that from our management to this day. I don't know about other airlines but CO is probably not going to increase flights in or out of MCO. But never say never. I could see us moving over there and taking four or five gates because it is a nicer terminal and CO is apart of Skyteam along with DL. Maybe NW will head over there too.
Is it broke...? Yeah I'll fix it.
 
FutureFO
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 7:58 pm

DLC operates flights out of gate 90 as well as gate 60A-K.



Sean from MCO and IND
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FlyPNS1
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 10:13 pm

Quoting Lono (Reply 34):
DL is unable to protect this important market......

I would hardly call MCO an important market. It's primarily a leisure route with super low-yields. Hardly anyone makes good money at MCO (except a few LCC's), but everyone has to serve it as part of being a network carrier.
 
B6FAN
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:07 pm

Quoting Flyibaby (Reply 32):
Quoting B6fan (Reply 31):
Negative. Today jetBlue just got 2 more gates . So they have a total of 4 gates. Those are gates 112, 111, 110, and 101. Right next to FL and WN.

Out of curiosity...are those old WN gates...or was there a shift of gates with the concourse expansion down on the AirTran end?

It will be a shift because FL is taking the new gates at their end. B6 is taking 2 of FL gates.
JetBlue Airways...
 
PVD757
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:40 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 11):
DL has way too many gates at MCO. There is no need for DL to be paying leases on gates they never use.

Tell that to Massport (BOS)...
 
747luvr
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Sat Dec 24, 2005 12:00 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 38):

I live here in Orlando, I don't understand how you can call MCO an unimportant market....considering we get over a million visitors a WEEK here, though not all thru MCO. FL will expand even more now with Jet Blue too. MCO is a huge airport, they will fill those gates up.
 
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Midway737
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Sat Dec 24, 2005 12:24 am

Quoting B6sea (Reply 15):
Any guesses on who'll move in?

My guess would be Airtran Airways. Since it based in Orlando. so it make sense
 
ClearedDirect
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Sat Dec 24, 2005 12:28 am

Didn't MCO just pass MIA as the busiest (via passenger traffic) airport in FL?
Thought I heard/read that somewhere.
Could be wrong but I remember some topic like that going on here a while back.
 
Tornado82
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Sat Dec 24, 2005 12:29 am

Quoting 747LUVR (Reply 41):
I live here in Orlando, I don't understand how you can call MCO an unimportant market....considering we get over a million visitors a WEEK here,

Because the fares are so diluted... that nobody makes much money there anyways.
 
slider
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Sat Dec 24, 2005 12:52 am

Quoting Flyibaby (Reply 28):
Technically DL would still have a say in who gets the gates, even once they are returned to the airport since the airport is run by the signatory airlines.

Technically, no they wouldn't. The City of Orlando can lease the gates if they are available. It's not a vote or something if that's what you're implying.

If DL defaults or otherwise cancels their exclusivity of X number of gates, they're fair game. Doesn't matter who the signatory carriers are, although if any of them wanted incremental gates, they would *typically* get first preference and right of refusal...many airport contracts are written as such.

But if DL coughs them up, they could theoretically go to anyone.
 
N702ML
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Sat Dec 24, 2005 12:57 am

Quoting WDBRR (Reply 26):
Didn't the original Airtran in 1996 operate at one of these airsides before the merger with Valujet? maybe gates 70 - 77? I remember seeing them being surrounded by Delta.

According to the August 1995 OAG, AirTran was in Airside 1 (Gates 1-29) along with Air Jamaica, American, ATA, Bahamasair, Carnival, Continental, Lacsa, LTU, Midway, Sun Country and TWA.

However....by October 1995....AirTran is showing at Airside 3 (Gates 60-99) along with Aero Costa Rica, America West, British Airways, Delta, Icelandair, Martinair, TransBrasil and Virgin Atlantic.

So apparently the ORIGINAL AirTran's move from Airside 1 to Airside 3 took place between August and October 1995.

When I worked in Orlando during 1998, I know the original AirTran was still in Airside 3.
The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of Southwest Airlines.
 
deltagator
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Sat Dec 24, 2005 1:06 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 44):
Quoting 747LUVR (Reply 41):
I live here in Orlando, I don't understand how you can call MCO an unimportant market....considering we get over a million visitors a WEEK here,

Because the fares are so diluted... that nobody makes much money there anyways.

Well Delta makes a fair bit of money off of me just going ATL-MCO. My average ticket costs over the past two years has been ~$650 but then I fly unrestricted and don't have Saturday stayovers.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
Tornado82
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Sat Dec 24, 2005 1:22 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 47):
My average ticket costs over the past two years has been ~$650 but then I fly unrestricted and don't have Saturday stayovers.

$650 is a pretty cheap unrestricted/no Sat. ticket even.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: DL To Shed 2/3 Of Its Gates At MCO

Sat Dec 24, 2005 3:52 am

What a shame for MCO and Delta. At one point, didn't Delta have a 'mini-hub' at MCO with flights to FRA and LGW? I guess this was around the time of them being 'The Official Airline of Disney'

I guess times have changed though. Considering MCO is the king of all leisure destinations, every low-cost carrier in creation has flooded MCO with flights. There is no more room for the aircraft/airlines of the past: TWA L1011s, DL 777s, and AA A300s.

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