OHLBU
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Finnair Leasing An Extra A340

Fri Dec 23, 2005 9:32 pm

Instead of leasing an 8th MD-11 next year Finnair is planning to introduce it´s first A340 in for next summer, a year ahead of getting it's first factory-new airframe. This would be a second-hand example, no news yet where it would come from. Sorry, can not post the link as it is on Finnair's intranet-paged and in Finnish.
 
TheSorcerer
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RE: Finnair Leasing An Extra A340

Fri Dec 23, 2005 10:26 pm

I heard here on Anet a while ago that AY couldn't use the A340 on routes to Asia because they use high speed Airways and the A340 isn't fast enough.
Can anyone confirm/correct that?
Thanks
Dominic
ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Finnair Leasing An Extra A340

Fri Dec 23, 2005 10:34 pm

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 1):
I heard here on Anet a while ago that AY couldn't use the A340 on routes to Asia because they use high speed Airways and the A340 isn't fast enough.

Sounds like absolute B.S. to me - the speed-difference betwen an A 340 and an MD 11 is not significant when it comes to block airpace. The thread must have come form an Boeing supporter...
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
SPREE34
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RE: Finnair Leasing An Extra A340

Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:44 pm

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 1):
heard here on Anet a while ago that AY couldn't use the A340 on routes to Asia because they use high speed Airways and the A340 isn't fast enough.
Can anyone confirm/correct that?
Thanks
Dominic

Rubbish. The cruise speed on all of them (the widebodies) is about the same. Where it's an issue for ATC, speeds are assigned.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Finnair Leasing An Extra A340

Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:49 pm

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 3):
The cruise speed on all of them (the widebodies) is about the same.

if that's the case perhaps you could explain why , as an example , a 744 flying SIN-AKL takes about half an hour less than a 767 flying the same route ?
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Finnair Leasing An Extra A340

Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:55 pm

The max. cruising speed for the MD-11 is M.0.87 whereas the max. cruising speed for the A 340-300 is about M.0.86...
So the difference is insignificant !
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
TheSorcerer
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RE: Finnair Leasing An Extra A340

Sat Dec 24, 2005 12:48 am

Thanks for the replies guys.
Is the A340 wet or dry leased?
Thanks
Dominic
ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
 
OHLBU
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RE: Finnair Leasing An Extra A340

Sat Dec 24, 2005 1:12 am

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 6):
Is the A340 wet or dry leased?

Most probably dry, as AY will be getting their own A340s soon enough so the project will just be started earlier.
 
blsbls99
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RE: Finnair Leasing An Extra A340

Sat Dec 24, 2005 1:13 am

Looking forward to seeing the Finnair colors on an A340! Good news for Finnair!
319 320 313 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 742 752 763 772 CRJ D9S ERJ EMB L10 M88 M90 SF3 AT4
 
RAFVC10
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RE: Finnair Leasing An Extra A340

Sat Dec 24, 2005 1:28 am

Quoting OHLBU (Reply 7):
Most probably dry, as AY will be getting their own A340s soon enough so the project will just be started earlier.

An leased from who?? Maybe Iberia?? IB and LA are the only users in the Oneworld alliance of the 340 and it sound logical to lease from them, no?
El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
 
FinnWings
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RE: Finnair Leasing An Extra A340

Sat Dec 24, 2005 1:59 am

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 1):
I heard here on Anet a while ago that AY couldn't use the A340 on routes to Asia because they use high speed Airways and the A340 isn't fast enough.

It was me who told that and my source was a MD-11 pilot who was flying these routes regulary. Those routes were located in Russia. This was the situation at least approx. one year ago but situation might have changed after that. However, at least earlier there were some routes, which had a minimum cruise speed limit of M0.82. Like said, I'm not familiar with the current situation there.

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 5):
The max. cruising speed for the MD-11 is M.0.87 whereas the max. cruising speed for the A 340-300 is about M.0.86...
So the difference is insignificant !

And Max cruising speed does not have anything to do with ECONOMICAL cruising speed. With max cruise speed you'll have severe payload penalties and reduced range.

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 3):
Rubbish. The cruise speed on all of them (the widebodies) is about the same.

Well, in cruise altitudes 6kts difference is only M0.01...

Best Regards,
FinnWings

[Edited 2005-12-23 18:02:12]
 
Tom_EDDF
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RE: Finnair Leasing An Extra A340

Sat Dec 24, 2005 10:32 am

Quoting FinnWings (Reply 10):
It was me who told that and my source was a MD-11 pilot who was flying these routes regulary. Those routes were located in Russia. This was the situation at least approx. one year ago but situation might have changed after that. However, at least earlier there were some routes, which had a minimum cruise speed limit of M0.82.

... which is the typical cruise speed for the A340-300, and most airlines, like LH who's a large A343 operator, fly theirs at M.82. You won't get max. range out of the aircraft at M.82, but it's most economical from a TCO perspective in most situations.

IIRC, there was an issue with the 257t / -311 version which had to operate @ LRC of M.79 or less on certain missions, but I bet they are getting the -313X 271t or 275t MTOW.
 
CXA330300
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RE: Finnair Leasing An Extra A340

Sat Dec 24, 2005 11:00 am

Do you think they might ramp JFK-HEL to daily?
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andaman
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RE: Finnair Leasing An Extra A340

Sat Dec 24, 2005 11:32 am

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 12):
Do you think they might ramp JFK-HEL to daily?

It's interesting to see how the new planes will change AY's strategy in US & Canada.
The competition there is harder, perhaps the growing markets in Eastern Europe bring more customers to AY.

AY starts Helsinki - Delhi next year, perhaps NYC-HEL-DEL could be reality in future, makes sense on the map atleast.
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: Finnair Leasing An Extra A340

Sat Dec 24, 2005 2:14 pm

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 9):
An leased from who?? Maybe Iberia?? IB and LA are the only users in the Oneworld alliance of the 340 and it sound logical to lease from them, no?

CX has 340s in One World too. Would it reallt make more sense to lease from a OneWorld member than anybody else? They will take whichever they can, IMO. The A340 is such a crappy airplane Big grin that virtually none are available in the second-hand market.

One answer to turn the thread into one more anti340 crap, unbelievable.

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 1):
I heard here on Anet a while ago

Sorcerer. don't trust everything on Anet (especially when it comes to widebodies!)
When I doubt... go running!
 
Flying Belgian
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RE: Finnair Leasing An Extra A340

Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:01 pm

Air France is slowly disposing of its A343s. So who knows...

The first A343 that left AF's fleet is in the hands of Air Madrid.

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
OHLBU
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RE: Finnair Leasing An Extra A340

Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:22 pm

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 12):
Do you think they might ramp JFK-HEL to daily?

HEL-JFK runs daily during summer months when flights are heavily booked, but for winter Finnair has even considered terminating the whole JFK-route as the loads consist mostly of cargo. They are selling HEL-JFK for €299/return at the moment, which is very cheap for a Finnish customer.
 
Rottamo
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RE: Finnair Leasing An Extra A340

Sat Dec 24, 2005 7:06 pm

Quoting OHLBU (Reply 16):
HEL-JFK runs daily during summer months when flights are heavily booked, but for winter Finnair has even considered terminating the whole JFK-route as the loads consist mostly of cargo. They are selling HEL-JFK for €299/return at the moment, which is very cheap for a Finnish customer.

Source?
You can check their monthly foad factors from DOT (www.dot.gov) web pages (query tool) and these numbers does not support your statement.
Of course, yields can be a lot worse during winter time.

Yours,

Rottamo

P.S. I think that load factor data can be found here:
http://www.transtats.bts.gov/Fields.asp?Table_ID=260

[Edited 2005-12-24 11:10:33]
 
cricket
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RE: Finnair Leasing An Extra A340

Sat Dec 24, 2005 7:21 pm

This means that DEL might not see the M11 after all? Dang!
:-(
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
drakey
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RE: Finnair Leasing An Extra A340

Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:51 pm

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 4):
if that's the case perhaps you could explain why , as an example , a 744 flying SIN-AKL takes about half an hour less than a 767 flying the same route ?

If the 767 is cruising at M.81 and the 744 at M.84, the 744 will fly 18 miles further during each hour of the flight. Therefore after 12 hours flying the 744 will be 216 miles ahead of the 767, which would require roughly 30 minutes to fly that distance (depending on the wind).

These would be typical cruising mach numbers for the heavies I see at work every day:

M.84 / 85 B744
M.83 / 84 B777 / MD11 / DC10
M.82 / 83 A340 / A330
M.81 / 82 B767 / A300

Drakey
 
OHLBU
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RE: Finnair Leasing An Extra A340

Sun Dec 25, 2005 12:07 am

Quoting Rottamo (Reply 17):
Source?

Well, we see bookings of less than 100 pax per flight on HEL-JFK vv. for January, which is less than good for an aircraft the size of MD-11. This has been the case for years and the yields on Trans-Atlantic have also been low for a long time, because of the intense competition.
 
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Richard28
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RE: Finnair Leasing An Extra A340

Sun Dec 25, 2005 12:29 am

VS are due to dispose of 3 x A343 over the next 12 months. I would guess that some are headed for Virgin Nigeria, however its not impossible that a frame could end up on the market and go to Finnair....
 
TheSorcerer
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RE: Finnair Leasing An Extra A340

Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:27 am

Quoting Richard28 (Reply 21):

Are these being replaced by A346?

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 15):
Air France is slowly disposing of its A343s

They are being replaced by T7s?

Thanks
Dominic
ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
 
A342
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RE: Finnair Leasing An Extra A340

Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:07 am

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 15):
Air France is slowly disposing of its A343s. So who knows...

Remember they lost one in YYZ, that might slow the process as I suppose they had one less earlier than they thought.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
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TK787
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RE: Finnair Leasing An Extra A340

Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:54 am

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 15):
Air France is slowly disposing of its A343s. So who knows...

Anyone knows how TK's 343 are doing? Instead of getting more they opted for the 330-200. Since TK 343' average age is around 10 years old, what do you thing they are planning?
(hint: my username?)
 
Orion737
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RE: Finnair Leasing An Extra A340

Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:11 am

I will be sad when the A340 starts to muscle its way in on Finnairs routes. I love the MD11 so much, I was hoping Finnair would stick to aquiring more of those rather than adding other long haul types.