S12PPL
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Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Sun Dec 25, 2005 10:38 am

Aparently a hand gun was allowed through this time. Nice work TSA  

http://www.kgw.com/

There isn't a print story, but if you check the top story, under it is a video link to the story.

Aparently the handgun was caught at PHX. The punishment for the TSA screener who let this slip through? A suspension, then re-training. Then he'll be back on the job. Wonderful   Can we get rid of the TSA yet?????

[Edited 2005-12-25 02:45:51]
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flypdx
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Sun Dec 25, 2005 10:52 am

A shame that they missed it. Also a shame that everyone feels a need to bash the TSA. They are trying.
 
jsposaune
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Sun Dec 25, 2005 10:56 am

Funny, they are letting scissors and things through in order to focus on finding explosives.

Explosives, yes. The little things that shoot the explosives...not so much!!!
Hope this is a very isolated incident!
There are no stupid questions....only stupid people!!!
 
S12PPL
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:00 am

Quoting Flypdx (Reply 1):
Also a shame that everyone feels a need to bash the TSA. They are trying.

I'm sorry, but what would you say when the agency started up with the sole purpose of stopping stuff like this from going through, LETS a handgun through?? Say "Hey, chin up! Keep trying guys!" ?????


This is a ridiculous lapse, and should NOT be tolerated. The TSA agent should be fired!
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warreng24
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:02 am

The TSA shows such a lack of common sense. There is such a huge amount of inconsistancy in the screening process. This is the major problem. They seem to either:
1) Not train them properly
2) Hire such idiotic people that they can't be trained.

TSA employees seem to have come from the following chain:

1) Rejected by CIA
2) Rejected by FBI
3) Rejected by State Troopers
4) Rejected by Local Police
5) Rejected by US Armed Services Recruiting
6) Rejected by private security company
7) Rejected by local nightclub (as bouncer)
8) Rejected by Wal-Mart (as shopping cart gatherer)
9) Rejected by McDonald's
10) Hired by TSA!

My last visit to BOS, I was amazed to see the screeners at the United terminal (same terminal where the 9/11 hijackers went through) just standing around chatting with each other. We all just got waived through. The guy watching the X-Ray screen was eating chips and talking with the other screeners! One lady was even gabbing on her cell phone.

I think that they ought to offer a higher pay rate, that way they can be more selective of their employees and fire off the imbeciles.
 
pilotpip
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:06 am

Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 4):
I think that they ought to offer a higher pay rate, that way they can be more selective of their employees and fire off the imbeciles.

That was the whole point of federalizing the screening by taking companies like Wackenhut and Huntleigh out of the picture and making them a Federal agency, paying the employees more and supposedly training them better in the long run.
DMI
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:09 am

Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 4):
TSA employees seem to have come from the following chain:

1) Rejected by CIA
2) Rejected by FBI
3) Rejected by State Troopers
4) Rejected by Local Police
5) Rejected by US Armed Services Recruiting
6) Rejected by private security company
7) Rejected by local nightclub (as bouncer)
8) Rejected by Wal-Mart (as shopping cart gatherer)
9) Rejected by McDonald's
10) Hired by TSA!

Well, gee, thanks...what does that say about people like me who were rejected by the TSA?

Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 4):
The TSA shows such a lack of common sense. There is such a huge amount of inconsistancy in the screening process. This is the major problem. They seem to either:
1) Not train them properly
2) Hire such idiotic people that they can't be trained.

I'll go for the latter. I think I got rejected by the TSA because I scored TOO HIGHLY on their exam.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
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fxramper
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:18 am

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 6):

Well, gee, thanks...what does that say about people like me who were rejected by the TSA?

Do you ride the short bus to school Britt?  Smile

In all fairness to TSA, they are doing a better job since 9.11.01 IMHO.
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:24 am

Quoting FXramper (Reply 7):
Do you ride the short bus to school Britt?

No, in fact, I lived a whole 100 feet from my high school...if a bus had come for me though, I suppose it would have been the short bus, as anybody who lives that close to school and needs to take a bus probably belongs on the short bus!
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:49 am

Quoting Flypdx (Reply 1):
A shame that they missed it. Also a shame that everyone feels a need to bash the TSA. They are trying.

Trying only counts in Horseshoes and Hand Grenades. These morons are charged with OUR safety. Geez, I feel safer every time I fly. Don't you  sarcastic 

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 3):
The TSA agent should be fired!

At the least . . . .

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 6):

Well, gee, thanks...what does that say about people like me who were rejected by the TSA?

That you're overqualifed and the TSA didn't want to immediately upstage it's entire senior staff  bigthumbsup 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
lesmainwaring
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Sun Dec 25, 2005 12:15 pm

earlier this year i was flying back from ATL (where i grew up and where my folks still live) home to PHF and was a lucky one who got "selected" for special screening ...

i have about 80,000 airline timetables, most still at my folk's home in ATL, and was brining quite a bit back with me in my carryon luggage ...

now, keep in mind, these timetables are from the 1930s until 1960s, typically (the ones in my luggage)... there were about 100 timetables total on my person...

the screener kept on and on about why i was monitoring airline schedules, and i kept on like "ummm, these schedules are at LEAST 30 years old, they are collectibles" and i explained about commercial aviation being a hobby ...

after a good plastic explosives sniffing and further proding, i was let go 15 minutes or so later ... i have to say, i really didn't feel any safer because of the screener's inability to grasp the situation ...

oh, and my starbucks coffee seemed to be upsetting too ... maybe i was holding on to the precious cup of caffeine too tightly (it was early)or maybe he was a folger's guy ...

...
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gman3
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Sun Dec 25, 2005 12:22 pm

I am surprised it got through. PDX is the ONLY airport that we fly to that I will set off the metal detector. I literally almost have to strip down to avoid any metal detection. It is so sensitive that it detected a dime that was stuck in the seam of my pocket.
 
Zone1
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Sun Dec 25, 2005 12:46 pm

Quoting Flypdx (Reply 1):
A shame that they missed it. Also a shame that everyone feels a need to bash the TSA. They are trying.

I'm glad we don't have the same attitude towards pilots.  sarcastic 
Last Thursday I was SSSS'ed, and the screeners didn't notice it at all. I got the usual security check. I'm not complaining, but they dropped the ball on that one.
/// U N I T E D
 
APFPilot1985
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Sun Dec 25, 2005 1:48 pm

Due to my hobby as an aviation photographer and as a result of an overzealous local police force, i am on the selectee list and get the secondary screening. After having experienced them at a number of different airports from a number of different screeners I can still say, what a joke.... the federal government took a good idea and took the cheapest and easiest way out with the TSA.
Stand Up and Be Counted Visit Site Related to Voice your opinion
 
zvezda
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Sun Dec 25, 2005 2:09 pm

Quoting Jsposaune (Reply 2):
Hope this is a very isolated incident!

My guess is a couple of handguns slip past the TSA every day. In nearly all cases, it's someone who absent-mindedly left it in their bag. Get over it. Professional terrorists wanting to use handguns have budgets that allow them to a) carry 100% non-metalic handguns and ammo, b) get hired by TSA, c) get hired as a cleaner, etc. There is always some risk. The idea is to bring it down to a level at which the cost of bringing it down further is about the same as the cost of bringing down further other risks like cancer, being hit by a bus, etc.

The only way to have security that is both effective and efficient is to make the airlines responsible. That means the airlines set the rules (with no government meddling) and then take _full_ responsibility i.e. AA and UA would have had to pay for the World Trade Center. Before someone says something stupid like "That would have liquidated AA and UA," don't assume they are worth more liquidated than whole and operating. The ownership of AA and UA would have changed and that would have been appropriate.
 
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ramprat74
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Sun Dec 25, 2005 2:32 pm

I swear the PDX TSA folks were all hired at a job fair at some SE Portland trailer park. I have never seen so many unprofessional looking people in one place, in all my life.
 
AJRfromSYR
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Sun Dec 25, 2005 5:51 pm

This just makes me think about the MIA FAM shooting. People tried to say that there should have been no worry of him having a bomb since he went through security.
-AJR-
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Sun Dec 25, 2005 6:19 pm

Quoting AJRfromSYR (Reply 16):
This just makes me think about the MIA FAM shooting. People tried to say that there should have been no worry of him having a bomb since he went through security.

Ha Ha Ha - Yup!

Does rather crap on everyone that said, "Oooohhh, no WAY he could have had a bomb - after all he cleared TSA before attempting to reboard".

Touche' my friend. Well said, well played.  thumbsup 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Mir
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Sun Dec 25, 2005 7:27 pm

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 5):
That was the whole point of federalizing the screening by taking companies like Wackenhut and Huntleigh out of the picture and making them a Federal agency, paying the employees more and supposedly training them better in the long run.

Wow, a whole lot of good that did.  Yeah sure

Exactly how long is this long run?

To be fair, I haven't run into many incompetent TSA people. But their policies are ridiculous. They should head to Europe for training - the security people there do things right.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Jumpseat70
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Sun Dec 25, 2005 10:16 pm

Here in KC, we hear complaints all day long about the blankety blank TSA which is actually First Line. We have a private company that does our screening and I have to say , NOTHING gets through. Everyone sets off the scanner and everyone, without exception, complains. Even the Delta Pilots.

But they are professional and dedicated, and we respect them. It's a boring, offensive job.

They have caught guns in bags, box cutters in shoes, and a bag that once held plastic explosives. Just another day at the airport for them.

And if you try and sneak through less than 15 minutes for a flight, you might get a rude awakening. They have a very good relationship with us, the gate agents. Regardless of the whining, they do their job.
"Up, Up and away with TWA"
 
flyorski
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Sun Dec 25, 2005 10:40 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 18):
They should head to Europe for training - the security people there do things right.

I couldn't agree with you more.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
 
letsgetwet
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Sun Dec 25, 2005 10:43 pm

Let's face it. It doesn't matter if every TSA agent was required to have a PHD, and we paid them $100,000/year. It doesn't matter if they work for the federal gvt. or the airlines. They are all human, there will always be mistakes. It is impossible to have a 100% perfect security system in place. There is no such thing. We should just be glad that MOST of the time the system works and we are somewhat safer with the system than without it. Nothing can ever be guaranteed.
 
dl1011
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Mon Dec 26, 2005 12:48 am

Having worked for the airlines since 1988, I'll take TSA anyday over the old system. Can it be improved? Sure. Is it better then the old system where the airlines hired the lowest bidder? Without a dout.

Just my 2 cts worth. Happy Holidays!
 
zvezda
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:07 am

Quoting DL1011 (Reply 22):
Is it better then the old system where the airlines hired the lowest bidder?

The problem with the old system was that the airlines neither had the power to set the rules nor responsibility for mistakes.
 
letsgetwet
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:16 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 23):
The problem with the old system was that the airlines neither had the power to set the rules nor responsibility for mistakes.

Let the airlines concentrate on flying, and leave security to the government.
 
CUSSkiosks
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Thr

Mon Dec 26, 2005 4:23 am

In my line of work, I have reason to print a lot of sample boarding cards and such from various airlines. I have a habit of then using these coupons (stiff ATB cardstock) as notepaper, etc, and kept a mittful in my laptop bag.

I realized in hindsight, that traveling with 30-40 assorted boarding cards with various names and airlines might not be the easiest thing to explain to a suspicious TSA agent. Luckily that situation never presented itself.


I did have a coworker who went through some pretty serious questioning, regarding the detailed airline DCS interface, seatmap layout diagrams, etc he was carrying on his person. But I suppose that's a good thing, since an objective person *should* consider that type of thing with some suspicion, or at least worthy of clarification.

Quoting LesMainwaring (Reply 10):
now, keep in mind, these timetables are from the 1930s until 1960s, typically (the ones in my luggage)... there were about 100 timetables total on my person...

the screener kept on and on about why i was monitoring airline schedules, and i kept on like "ummm, these schedules are at LEAST 30 years old, they are collectibles" and i explained about commercial aviation being a hobby ...

after a good plastic explosives sniffing and further proding, i was let go 15 minutes or so later ... i have to say, i really didn't feel any safer because of the screener's inability to grasp the situation ...
 
S12PPL
Topic Author
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Mon Dec 26, 2005 5:20 am

Quoting Letsgetwet (Reply 21):
They are all human, there will always be mistakes. It is impossible to have a 100% perfect security system in place.

Yes. But letting a HAND GUN go thorugh security is not acceptable. A pocket knife every now and then I can sort of understand. Nail clippers I can understand. Shaving razors, yes. A hand gun is totally and completely un-acceptable. Period. What if he had amunition in it? What if he truely was a terrorist??? Sorry, but this whole "Well they're human, it was just a mistake. Mistakes happen"attitue bothers me. Yeah, just a mistake. LOL. A mistake that, if he had been a terrorist, could have led to another 9/11, or worse.
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jetboy319
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:18 am

Quoting Flypdx (Reply 1):
They are trying

While is see your point (sort of) and respect your opinion, think of it this way:
Pilots aren't paid to "Try" and fly the airplane. As such, TSA is paid to find these things. Mistakes do happen, but come on. A lighter slipping through could warrent the attitude of "everybody's human, we all make mistakes." It wasn't a lighter that slipped through, it was a GUN!
 
atmx2000
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Mon Dec 26, 2005 1:49 pm

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 26):
A mistake that, if he had been a terrorist, could have led to another 9/11, or worse.

A terrorist can't rely on screeners missing a gun on an off chance.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
S12PPL
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Mon Dec 26, 2005 1:52 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 28):
A terrorist can't rely on screeners missing a gun on an off chance.

You've completely missed the point. That's ok, keep trying.
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aa757first
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:39 pm

Quoting S12PPL (Thread starter):
Can we get rid of the TSA yet?

But would this handgun have gone through if a private company was responsible for screening? And, if it did, what would the punishment have been?

Quoting Flypdx (Reply 1):
They are trying.

Trying doesn't count here. It must be done perfectly every time.

"Sorry, Mrs. Jones. Your husband died on the operating room table. But, the doctor tried!"
"Sorry, Mr. Smith. Your wife died as one of our planes landed. But, the pilot tried."
"Sorry, dear citizens. We lost 300 people as one of the city bridges collapsed. But, the engineer tried."

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 3):
The TSA agent should be fired!

I agree.
 
S12PPL
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:57 pm

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 30):
But would this handgun have gone through if a private company was responsible for screening? And, if it did, what would the punishment have been?

That's not my point. My point is this is another lapse in security by the TSA. How many times have we seen on the news "Today at _______, the entire __ terminal was shut down for 3 hours because a passenger was let through un-screened/they're bag was not screened properly" etc??? This is yet another un-acceptable lapse in security by the TSA. They're screw ups are famous, and frequent. I'm not saying a private firm, or a firm run by the airlines themselves would be better or worse. I'm saying that I know the types of people that are hired. While working QX, I was often told in a hushed voice by a co-worker "They used to work for us, now they work for the TSA. They only left because they get government bennifits. They didn't do a great job here." It is well known that you don't have to meet high requirements to get hired on by the TSA. Hell, all you have to do is know the right people to get hired on by them. I'm sure if I wanted to, I could get hired on without a problem. It seems all you have to do is pass fingerprinting by the FBI.

I think it's time for a change in the guard. The TSA is obviously failing. How long before another 9/11 happens because they let through box cutters, razors, knives, etc?? It saddens me to think it's still that easy. We keep hearing how much improved our airport security is supposed to be under the TSA, yet we constantly see in the news, of another breach in they're "security". When is it going to finally be too much? The fact that a PDX screener let a HAND GUN through, frightens me. I'm due to fly out of PDX at the end of January. This guy that let the gun through could be back on the job by then! This time nothing came of it. But what happens next time? I'm not traveling by myself, either. What could I get through security with when I pass through PDX's TSA checkpoints?? This latest foul up makes me wonder.
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SHUPirate1
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Mon Dec 26, 2005 3:11 pm

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 31):
It is well known that you don't have to meet high requirements to get hired on by the TSA.



Quoting S12PPL (Reply 31):
It seems all you have to do is pass fingerprinting by the FBI.

Actually, all you have to do is pass a three-hour exam. Unfortunately, they don't tell you either your score or the necessary score, or whether you have to score above or below that threshold to be hired. All I know is, when I took the exam, I "failed", whatever that was supposed to mean.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
letsgetwet
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:06 pm

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 30):
Sorry, Mrs. Jones. Your husband died on the operating room table. But, the doctor tried!"
"Sorry, Mr. Smith. Your wife died as one of our planes landed. But, the pilot tried."
"Sorry, dear citizens. We lost 300 people as one of the city bridges collapsed. But, the engineer tried."

This happens every day.

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 30):
Trying doesn't count here. It must be done perfectly every time.

That is impossible. And if you think otherwise you tell me where to find tens of thousands of people who are PERFECT. (I don't know of one)
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:05 am

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 26):
Sorry, but this whole "Well they're human, it was just a mistake. Mistakes happen"attitue bothers me.

So what's acceptable to you then when this mistake occurs? Is termination good enough? Perhaps charging the person with a felony of "Endangering the traveling public," and imposing a hefty fine, or even jail time?

While we're at it, perhaps we should tar and feather him and burn his home while his family is publicly ridiculed? Would that work?  sarcastic 

Sometimes mistakes happen, and when they do it becomes a training opportunity. You do what you can to avoid having it happen in the future, and try to learn from it. Now of course, CONTINUED mistakes like this by the same individual would be where you might consider freeing up his future for different employment. But for one mistake like this I'm not sure just sacking that person is the right response.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
artsyman
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:09 am

It is not possible for someone to get a handgun through security IF the person doing the screening actually looks at the x-ray screen. You could not miss a gun, it would stick out. Therefore, this person was not looking at the screen at all when the item went through. Many times I have seen this happen where you watch the person that is supposed to be looking at the screen sits talking to a co-worker for minutes on end without even looking at the screen.
 
11Bravo
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:40 am

Quoting Artsyman (Reply 35):
It is not possible for someone to get a handgun through security IF the person doing the screening actually looks at the x-ray screen.

That just isn't true. Depending on the screening angle it can be difficult to detect a handgun with a quick x-ray scan. If the weapon is in profile, that's pretty easy, but if you have a top-down or end-on view, all you will see is a rectangle.

I think many of you have a fundamentally unreasonable expectation that x-ray scans are 100% effective when done properly. That just isn't the case regardless of whether you think it should be or not. If you want to slam TSA, fine, go ahead, but the fact remains that you are expecting them to achieve 100% detection with a system that cannot do that.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
S12PPL
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Tue Dec 27, 2005 2:03 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 34):
But for one mistake like this I'm not sure just sacking that person is the right response.

Just because I know the answer to this question all ready.....

What would happen in your line of work if someone drove a Tug, or Belt Loader, or Push truck into an aircraft? Would they be suspended, and re-trained...Given another chance? Or would imediate termination take place.

A little less risky than allowing someone to take a gun through security if you ask me.
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EA CO AS
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Tue Dec 27, 2005 3:06 am

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 37):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 34):
But for one mistake like this I'm not sure just sacking that person is the right response.

Just because I know the answer to this question all ready.....

What would happen in your line of work if someone drove a Tug, or Belt Loader, or Push truck into an aircraft? Would they be suspended, and re-trained...Given another chance?

Actually, yeah! They'd be suspended pending an investigation, and if it was nothing more than mere operator error (no drugs or alcohol involved), then they'd be allowed to resume work.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
aa757first
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Tue Dec 27, 2005 3:09 am

Quoting Letsgetwet (Reply 33):

This happens every day.

And lawsuits get filed. Right? What happens here?

AAndrew
 
letsgetwet
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Tue Dec 27, 2005 3:18 am

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 39):
And lawsuits get filed. Right? What happens here?

You can't sue for something that COULD have hapened. There were no damages to sue for.
 
S12PPL
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Tue Dec 27, 2005 3:24 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 38):
Actually, yeah! They'd be suspended pending an investigation, and if it was nothing more than mere operator error (no drugs or alcohol involved), then they'd be allowed to resume work.

Maybe someone who'd been with the airline 5+ years. I've heard of people getting canned right away.
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Tue Dec 27, 2005 3:28 am

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 41):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 38):
Actually, yeah! They'd be suspended pending an investigation, and if it was nothing more than mere operator error (no drugs or alcohol involved), then they'd be allowed to resume work.

Maybe someone who'd been with the airline 5+ years. I've heard of people getting canned right away.

If they were already in steps of discipline, then sure - they'd probably be sacked immediately. But someone who had no previous work-performance issues, regardless of if they were on the job six months or six years, would simply be suspended pending an investigation and allowed to resume work if it were simply an accident without impairment.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
boeingfanyyz
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Tue Dec 27, 2005 3:54 am

Quoting Flypdx (Reply 1):
Also a shame that everyone feels a need to bash the TSA. They are trying.

Of course they arent. You know as well as I do the amount of damage that gun could have caused, especially in the air.

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 30):
Quoting S12PPL (Reply 3):
The TSA agent should be fired!

Let me quickly rephrase this... "The TSA agent should be prosecuted!"

Quoting Letsgetwet (Reply 33):

Are you sure you werent that TSA agent...you seem to be backing the TSA (not many people do!!!)
Cheers,
Boeingfanyyz  airplane 
"If it aint boeing, it aint going!", "Friends are like condoms...they protect you when things get hard!"
 
letsgetwet
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:21 am

Quoting Boeingfanyyz (Reply 43):
Are you sure you werent that TSA agent...you seem to be backing the TSA (not many people do!!!)
Cheers

I'm just saying that there is no such thing as a perfect security agent. Our government knows that, and anyone who works in any kind of security related job knows that. The best any security system can do catch MOST of the contraband. Be honest, if you were a terrorist, what do you think your chances are of getting a gun on a plane? 1 in 100? 1 in 1000? The point is the flying public is never guaranteed 100% security,and never will be. You are not 100% secure anywhere!
 
lnglive1011yyz
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:25 am

If you guys think that they can screen 100% of the time, and get it right 100% fo the time, you're sorrowly mistaken.

It's like any job. When you rely on people (even highly paid/skilled individuals), they make mistakes.

Even Doctor's make mistakes.

They're still doing a good job IMHO.

1011yyz
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
letsgetwet
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:26 am

Quoting Boeingfanyyz (Reply 43):
Let me quickly rephrase this... "The TSA agent should be prosecuted!"

What would be the charges? Since when is carelessness against the law?
 
grantcv
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:47 am

Yes, the TSA is trying. And they are doing a really good job. I go through a TSA checkpoint at least twice a week and have been doing so for as long at the TSA has been in existance. I am very satisfied with their thoroughness and their level of intrusion into my personal space.

But they are not perfect, and no matter how you choose to criticize them, they will never be perfect. Unless you are will to be subjected to a thorough strip search, they will never be perfect.

100% perfection should always be the goal, but we have to understand that it is an unachievable goal. Expecting otherwise shows someone that is naive about the human experience. People make mistakes - all the time. I make mistakes in the software I write. I forget to buy things at the store. I hurt people's feelings when I don't mean to. I sometimes don't notice a sign on the road and do something wrong. And all around me I see other people making mistakes - all over the place. I can't see how the TSA can establish a cone of perfection around the TSA checkpoints when there are living and breathing people involved.

No matter how bad the consequences of a mistake, demanding perfection in life is to ensure dissatisfaction with the result. And demanding draconian punishment won't make things any better.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:51 am

Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 4):
My last visit to BOS, I was amazed to see the screeners at the United terminal (same terminal where the 9/11 hijackers went through) just standing around chatting with each other.

Why be surprised? The screeners and JFK/EWR/BOS/LGA have always behaved this way, pre-9/11 when they were private, post 9/11 (one week later!) when they were private but watched like a hawk, and now. I've never been to such a lax group of airports in my life when it comes to making the security personal do their job instead of chatting about their love lives.

I am originally from the area and it is a disgrace. And it is no wonder that the 9/11 hijackers chose BOS and EWR to start from, despite not living near those airports. They knew this too, and little has changed.  Sad
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
S12PPL
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RE: Severe Security Breach At PDX: Handgun Let Through

Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:54 am

Quoting Letsgetwet (Reply 46):
Since when is carelessness against the law?

Reckless endangerment. You may not have hurt the person, but they can still charge you with it. If you have passengers in a car, and you are driving 100 MPH, you will get charged with reckless endangerment. You don't have to be intoxicated. You can still get charged.
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