rolo987
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WN's Performance At PIT

Tue Dec 27, 2005 5:05 am

How has WN been doing at PIT for the past 8 months?
 
Tornado82
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Tue Dec 27, 2005 5:18 am

The service increases speak for themselves.
 
vega
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Tue Dec 27, 2005 7:38 am

Southwest Airlines' Percentage of (PIT) Market (2005)

Month Passengers % of Total
May 57,260 6.0 %
June 67,104 6.6 %
July 69,983 6.9 %
Aug 65,985 7.1 %
Sept 59,767 7.4 %

The % changes appear representative since the only Decrease at PIT during this period was Delta - a decrease of 1% of the total airport share.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
CentPIT
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:41 pm

It appears that WN is doing well in PIT. They will be adding a seventh daily flight PIT-PHL on Feb 6, 2006. I hope they continue to add service.
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
Tornado82
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:24 pm

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 3):
They will be adding a seventh daily flight PIT-PHL on Feb 6, 2006.

Haha. I love it... all the opportunities at PIT, and they add more of the most saturated route in town. I wonder if a petition to the FAA about making PHL a Slots airport would work. Not just for WN, but US too (even though they haven't added anywhere near as many flights proportionally.) Anyone with me here?
 
iowaman
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:30 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 4):
Haha. I love it... all the opportunities at PIT, and they add more of the most saturated route in town. I wonder if a petition to the FAA about making PHL a Slots airport would work. Not just for WN, but US too (even though they haven't added anywhere near as many flights proportionally.) Anyone with me here?

I think it's obvious WN sees an opportunity on PIT-PHL. I don't see how this is the most saturated route when there is plenty of demand.
 
Tornado82
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:47 pm

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 5):

I think it's obvious WN sees an opportunity on PIT-PHL. I don't see how this is the most saturated route when there is plenty of demand.

Yeah, the opportunity of throwing daggers at US, obviously. When they've got 737's crossing the Allegheny Range so often that there's permanent cirrus shield at 20,000 ft I think it's a sign of a saturated market. It would be different if PHL had all the room in the world for half-empty planes to come floating in, but that place is beyond the melting point. They put slots in at LGA and DCA years ago... and then made time restrictions at ORD as well... it's time for PHL to become the same to eliminate this kind of fluff. Unless someone can show me this route is running at an 85% LF or something, which would be shocking for either airline (though maybe US does, as they continue to right-size it with smaller and smaller planes as WN slams the yields) All the "hubs" in the WN network for PIT to get service to (BWI, BNA, etc) and instead we just get more to PHL. How about some PVD/MHT... PIT-BOS is a pretty big route.
 
CentPIT
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:07 am

I agree with Tornado82. With US running 11 dailies PIT-PHL and Southwest adding a seventh, this brings the total to 18! I can't beleive the LF is close to 85% on every flight. Slots would def. help. Southwest could have at least added another westward flight instead of PHL.
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
isitsafenow
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:12 am

Would you like for me to look into my old OAG's and tell you how many trips a day Allegheny/USAir had between those two cities in the 70's and early 80's?
Now add some TWA and toss in a UA or two and W O W..

safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:16 am

WN rarely runs 85% LF's in any of their system. There is a lot of demand between PHL and PIT which had been suppressed by years of high fares. WN's lower fares were bound to cause a surge in demand.

As for congestion at PHL, you can hardly blame WN. They have about 50-60 flights spaced out over the entire day....barely a drop in the bucket. PHL was a congested mess long before WN arrived....largely due to the USAirways hub and PHL's inherently poor design.
 
CentPIT
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:19 am

Yeah, I don't blame WN for the mess in PHL.
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CentPIT
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:32 am

What do you guys think the next WN city will be from PIT. I hope/think that it will be at least one of these:

LAX
FLL
PVD
BNA
RDU
SEA
SLC

Let me know what you think...
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
Flaps
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:17 am

I would like to see BWI followed by PVD and BNA. I wont connect through PHL on anyone for any reason but to suddenly have cheap air access after all the years of tortuous drives across the mountains Im not surprised at the pent up demand on PIT-PHL.
 
ouboy79
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:30 am

Remember overcapacity problems are never the fault of Southwest, at least according to thier managements it is everyone else's fault.  Smile
 
Tornado82
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:54 am

Quoting Flaps (Reply 12):
I wont connect through PHL on anyone for any reason but to suddenly have cheap air access after all the years of tortuous drives across the mountains Im not surprised at the pent up demand on PIT-PHL.

I happen to like that drive, unless it's snowing. Very relaxing drive. But then again, I take 81 down to 70/68 through Maryland when I do it.

The thing with PIT-PHL, if you're not going to the immediate airport areas themselves, as I said, it's oftentimes quicker to drive it when you account for delays and stuff at PHL and all that TSA/parking kind of crap as well. Not to mention PIT is about 1/2 hr (with Ft. Pitt Tunnel/Greentree Hill traffic) away from center-city.

I did once buy a refundable PIT-PHL ticket because of a said snowstorm, then just got my refund when our plow crews had plowed the 9" of snow within a few hours. I wasn't even going to my homeland of Uniontown (1hr 15 from PIT) that weekend and it was still quicker to drive than the flight would have been... but part of that can be held by the fact that I live in the Lehigh Valley as well.

The point is, as most people who do NOT live in PIT/PHL don't realize... it's just quicker to drive, and when the snowflakes aren't flying, less of a hassle as well now that the turnpike construction is relatively finished, and if not there's always glorious I-68. It's always the people from a place like California, Florida, or Iowa, who've probably never made the drive, who are the one's acting like every resident of Pittsburgh and Philly should perform "favors" for WN because they gave us freedom to move away from the turnpike... while many of those of us who do that drive regularly, just don't see it being all its cracked up to be. There's no way to look at the WN terminal at PHL as being a conveninent place to fly out of. Sorry, that's just a fact of life. It's not bashing WN nor PHL, it's just an inconvenient place to fly from. I've been there on Northwest, and that sucks as well, but at least I had assigned seats and on a CRJ440 where the entire boarding process took about 5 minutes.
 
Tornado82
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:55 am

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 13):
Remember overcapacity problems are never the fault of Southwest, at least according to thier managements it is everyone else's fault. Smile

And their never-faltering Praetorian Guard.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:00 am

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 13):
Remember overcapacity problems are never the fault of Southwest, at least according to thier managements it is everyone else's fault

WN has the most conservative growth of any LCC in the industry. They aren't an unproven carrier ordering aircraft by the hundreds and throwing them on routes yet unopened.

Yes... it's all WN's fault.
 
ScottB
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:21 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 6):
Unless someone can show me this route is running at an 85% LF or something, which would be shocking for either airline (though maybe US does, as they continue to right-size it with smaller and smaller planes as WN slams the yields)

Southwest very rarely runs any route with an 85% load factor; they generally start adding flights, if possible, when they're getting load factors above about 70% in a market. The US Airways modus operandi has been (in the past decade or so) to reduce capacity and raise fares when they're running high load factors -- or as you would call it, "right-sizing" the route. Actually, using smaller planes is the least effective way to compete with Southwest, since these will typically have higher costs.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 6):
Yeah, the opportunity of throwing daggers at US, obviously. When they've got 737's crossing the Allegheny Range so often that there's permanent cirrus shield at 20,000 ft I think it's a sign of a saturated market. It would be different if PHL had all the room in the world for half-empty planes to come floating in, but that place is beyond the melting point.

The mere presence of Southwest in the PIT-PHL market keeps US Airways' fares under control, whether you're talking about five dailies or twenty. The fact is that Southwest probably wouldn't be adding service so quickly if they weren't filling the planes! They've reduced PHL-BDL service from five to three dailies because of lack of demand (and facilities constraints at PHL).

Moreover, the real issue at PHL isn't half-empty planes; it is the scads of regional aircraft which take up just as much airspace and runway as mainline aircraft two, three or four times their size! US's PHL operation is now over 2/3 RJ and prop. Two Midatlantic E170's carry virtually the same number of passengers (OK, 3 more) from PHL to PIT as a single Southwest 737. Six years ago, US's PHL operations were nearly 2/3 mainline. They're able to carry fewer passengers today but use about 20% more flights (469 vs. 389).

I'd say the fact that Southwest has nearly doubled service in eight months speaks for itself. I'd say it's probably telling that Southwest has increased capacity between PIT & Chicago to about 800 daily seats each way while US Airways is offering about 440 daily seats.

Quoting Flaps (Reply 12):
I would like to see BWI followed by PVD and BNA.

I'm still astonished they haven't added PIT-BWI. I'd think that route would be a slam dunk for at least 5-7 dailies.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:44 am

Market "saturation" is determined by one thing: demand met. If there is demand for more service on PIT-PHL due to Southwest's low fares, then more power to WN in providing more service. Too bad for US who surpressed demand, as FlyPNS1 noted, for years with higher fares.

The opinions of one A.net enthusiast who likes driving the route, and who is bitter that WN didn't come into his home ABE, aren't particularly relevant. (talk about a vocal anti-WN Praetorian Guard.   ) More power to WN in providing more low fares to two big East Coast markets which long had low O & D due to US Airways' artificially high hub-market fares.

Scott--I too am surprised that WN hasn't started PIT-BWI yet. The DC-Balto area to Pittsburgh is a nasty drive and I'd bet there'd be lots of market for WN. Apparently IAD-PIT has been one of Independence's better-performing markets, which shouldn't surprise anyone.

Jim

[Edited 2005-12-28 20:51:38]
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:49 am

If JetBlue does enter PIT, I wouldn't be surprised to see 2-3 daily EMB-190's on PIT-IAD after Independence's likely demise. They could probably coexist with WN flying 3-5 dailies on PIT-BWI.

Jim

[Edited 2005-12-28 20:55:02]
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
N1120A
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:56 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 4):
I wonder if a petition to the FAA about making PHL a Slots airport would work.

No, it wouldn't, because the FAA is very reluctant to do so unless there is a true need. PHL may get crowded at times, but it nothing like what LGA or National would be like if they were unchecked

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 13):
Remember overcapacity problems are never the fault of Southwest, at least according to thier managements it is everyone else's fault.

Um, lets see, WN has 60 flights per day at PHL and they are the ones to blame? They don't have even 250 flights per day at any airport. Did you think before you made this statement?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
A330323X
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:21 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 17):
I'd say it's probably telling that Southwest has increased capacity between PIT & Chicago to about 800 daily seats each way while US Airways is offering about 440 daily seats.

I'd say that you're forgetting that US can't add flights to ORD because of the de facto slot controls now in place there, and that US had to cut a few (2, IIRC) of its PIT-ORD flights to be able to start DCA-ORD.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
CentPIT
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:28 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 21):
I'd say that you're forgetting that US can't add flights to ORD because of the de facto slot controls now in place there, and that US had to cut a few (2, IIRC) of its PIT-ORD flights to be able to start DCA-ORD.

Well, why don't they serve Midway? I think adding DCA-ORD was a good move but that if the PIT demand was there and they dropped it then I hope WN does get the overflow. I was spotting at PIT today and a UAX CR7 came in? Is United dropping PIT capacity too or are they adding express flights to compliment the B733s and the Avros, or is WN taking pax from them as well?

[Edited 2005-12-28 21:35:38]

[Edited 2005-12-28 21:36:24]
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
Tornado82
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:36 am

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 18):
The opinions of one A.net enthusiast who likes driving the route, and who is bitter that WN didn't come into his home ABE, aren't particularly relevant. (talk about a vocal anti-WN Praetorian Guard. )

For the 9 millionth time, I moved to Allentown just 9 months ago. LONG after WN went to PHL. I wouldn't live in PHL to save my life, and will be out of Allentown, God-willing, within 2 years... moving to another WN stronghold, MHT, where I still won't fly them. But yes, I'm oh so bitter that they won't be taxiing their 737's at 30kt while I'm taking my lessons at ABE this spring in a little Cessna. Even though I lived in VPZ... which is by far MDW's market over ORD's for 3 years and never once flew Southwest, I think that shows how much of a damn I gave about them coming to my city then, or now. If they came to ABE, they still wouldn't do me a bit of good, because my most-travelled route is to IND, and they'd never in a million years run direct anything to IND... and I ain't going to Chicago to get to Indianapolis, period. And even when I do go down to Philly which happens occassionally to take a flight, it's NOT on Southwest. There's no way in hell I'd fly an airline that wouldn't even allow to interline me to another airline in the event my flight gets cancelled or connections get blown. I've had one too many blown connections in my day to do that. The same reason I'm going to Myrtle Beach this summer via Delta, and not Hooters, despite living in Allentown which is now suddenly Hooters country.

Once again for you non-believers who've most likely never gone between Pittsburgh and Philly...

Let's run a Tale of the Tape:
PIT to PHL, flying:

Center City to PIT: 30 minutes
Parking lot, find a space, to terminal/ticketing: 15 minutes
TSA recommendation: 90 minutes
Boarding time: 10 minutes
Taxi at PIT: 10 minutes
Flight time (air): 45 minutes
Taxi in/Deboarding@ PHL: 20 minutes
Navigate through PHL on foot: 15 minutes
Baggage claim: 20 minutes *optional
Economy parking: 30 minutes *optional
Drive to center city: 15 minutes without traffic
Total: 4hr 10min, to 5hr... UNLESS PHL IS ON A DELAY PROGRAM, which happens every time the weather goes IFR.

PHL-PIT, flying:

Drive from center city: 15 minutes without traffic
Getting into terminal/ticketing: 15 minutes
Economy parking: extra 30 minutes *optional, but if you're this hellbent to save a dime on WN...
TSA recommendation: 90 minutes (and considering the lines at the WN terminal at peak times, you need it)
Boarding time: 10 minutes
Taxi time at PHL: 45 minutes (That's what the airlines are scheduling now, at times they give a whole hour)
Flight time (air): 50 minutes (westbound, winds)
Taxi-in/deboarding at PIT: 15 min
Navigate through PIT to groundside terminal: 10 min
Baggage claim: 10 minutes *optional
Parking: 10 minutes
Drive to Center City: 30 minutes
TOTAL: 4hr 50 min to 5hr 30 min... once again... this is under the assumption of no Delays at PHL.

Driving, either direction:

Mapquest says: Center city to Center city: 5hr 4min. And we all know Mapquest overestimates time, unless you drive like AA taxis their planes. From Allentown, which is farther north, to Uniontown, which is farther south, I've never taken longer than 5 hours, even in snow... and it can be done in barely over 4 hr.

Still non-believers that it's quicker to drive? The Pennsylvania Turnpike nor I-68 have regular 3 hour ground delay programs because of a thunderstorm or drizzle. Sure they might slow down a bit, but like I said, even in a moderate snow, 5 hours max. PA, and especially the turnpike, are VERY efficient at snow removal from highways.

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 18):
The DC-Balto area to Pittsburgh is a nasty drive and I'd bet there'd be lots of market for WN.

Yep, as soon as you get past HGR that drive goes from simple to horrible. I can't see why WN hasn't run BWI flights from PIT. Now with FlyI dying in a month, they'd be fools not to. Unless they want Airtran to beat them to the punch, with a better product (IFE, assigned seating, 717's have 2x3 seating).
 
CentPIT
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:41 am

Oh (A330323X) is PIT-PWM seasonal or did US drop the route in Sept.

Thanks...
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
jdwfloyd
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:02 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 24):
is PIT-PWM seasonal

PWM is still schd to return this spring out of PIT along with a bunch of other droped routes that I can't name right now.
 
A330323X
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:08 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 22):
Well, why don't they serve Midway?

US has served MDW on and off in the past. It hasn't worked for two reasons. One, MDW gets lower yields than ORD. Two, it's very inefficient to split up your operation between the two airports, and increases costs substantially.

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 22):
I think adding DCA-ORD was a good move but that if the PIT demand was there and they dropped it then I hope WN does get the overflow.

Well that's the dilemma everyone faces when dealing with slot-constrained airports. There may be lots of opportunities to make money, but you can't fly all the flights you'd like to, so you pick the ones that make the *most* money.

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 22):
I was spotting at PIT today and a UAX CR7 came in? Is United dropping PIT capacity too or are they adding express flights to compliment the B733s and the Avros

I don't pay enough attention to UA's schedule to know for sure, but I'd imagine the CR7s are mostly replacing the 146s, since UA/ZW are breaking up and they won't be flying in the UAX system any longer. Replacing mainline would be my second guess; I don't believe UA has added any frequencies in the market.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 23):
Once again for you non-believers who've most likely never gone between Pittsburgh and Philly...

I fly PIT-PHL roundtrip 1-2 times per month. (And I did so before WN was ever on the route.) I hate the drive, and flying does indeed save time for me, whether you believe it or not.

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 24):
Oh (A330323X) is PIT-PWM seasonal or did US drop the route in Sept.

They could of course change it, but it's been seasonal for the last two years or so, and I expect it to return.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
CentPIT
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:13 am

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 25):
PWM is still schd to return this spring out of PIT along with a bunch of other dropped routes that I can't name right now.

A330323X-- Do you know the other routes that he has mentioned? Thank you for your information as well it is greatly appreciated.
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
A330323X
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:39 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 27):
A330323X-- Do you know the other routes that he has mentioned? Thank you for your information as well it is greatly appreciated.

If he's just referring to the other seasonal routes in addition to PWM, they're SAV and MYR, both on weekends only.

If he's referring to US bringing back other dropped routes, no, I don't have any specific knowledge of that at PIT. But I'd say the likeliest candidates for resumed RJ service, for various reasons, would be MKE, MCI, YUL, BNA, in that order, and perhaps CHS on weekends. For resumed Dash 8 service, BTV fits in well with the other recent additions, though it's a rather long ride.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
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casinterest
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:40 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 23):
Once again for you non-believers who've most likely never gone between Pittsburgh and Philly...

Tornado?
What the heck are you trying to prove?

Hell I could prove that it is better to drive EWR/JFK/LGA to BOS than to fly it. Yet there are tons of flights on that route.
You overlook a bunch of things that drive capacity on this route

A. People using Philadelphia as a stop on a longer trip.
B. People that don't live in the city center that don't want to drive the distance.
C. Business travelers, who are a lot more productive on the plane and sitting in an airport than driving.
D. Accessability drivin by lower costs for people to afford to take vacations out of Pitt.

You are way too bitter about WN. Get a grip and enjoy traveling with your carrier of choice.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
ScottB
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:45 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 21):
I'd say that you're forgetting that US can't add flights to ORD because of the de facto slot controls now in place there

That's all fine and good, except that US is running 1-2 dailies on the E170 on the route along with 733's and 734's. Granted, they are also limited on their fleet, but if they really viewed the market as being strategic, they'd increase capacity.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 23):
Once again for you non-believers who've most likely never gone between Pittsburgh and Philly...

That's great, we get it, YOU prefer to drive. A lot of other folks don't, for whatever reason. If one is a business traveler doing a day trip from PIT to PHL or vice versa, it's great not to spend 8-10 hours (optimistically) on the road. People aren't flying Southwest between PIT and PHL to save a few bucks; they're flying because the average round-trip fare went down from $200+ to somewhere around $75.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 14):
It's always the people from a place like California, Florida, or Iowa, who've probably never made the drive, who are the one's acting like every resident of Pittsburgh and Philly should perform "favors" for WN because they gave us freedom to move away from the turnpike...

It has nothing at all to do with performing "favors" for Southwest. If people in PIT and PHL find it convenient and economical to fly between the two cities on Southwest or US Airways, they will. If they'd rather drive, they will do that instead. It is so horrible that they have given people a reasonably-priced alternative to driving, right?
 
CentPIT
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:49 am

I wonder if MYR will get week day service now that Hooters Air flys the route/will again fly the route.
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
A330323X
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:55 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 30):
That's all fine and good, except that US is running 1-2 dailies on the E170 on the route along with 733's and 734's. Granted, they are also limited on their fleet, but if they really viewed the market as being strategic, they'd increase capacity.

There's also another, less obvious reason why ORD gets the B737s and not the A320-series or the B757. It's a line maintenance station for US that performs a number of line checks on the 737, including some overnight checks.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
A330323X
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:59 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 31):
I wonder if MYR will get week day service now that Hooters Air flys the route/will again fly the route.

I would not think so. US doesn't even run a daily PHL-MYR or DCA-MYR any more. The small RJs just aren't economical when US can run mainline on CLT-MYR and connect people there; on the weekends, the nonstop RJ flights are primarily to increase aircraft utilization when the planes would otherwise sit. Even with only one destination from MYR receiving daily service, US remains the largest carrier there by a long shot.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
CentPIT
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:07 am

US also has reduced SFO to certain days of the week as you said they would, do you think that it will ever return to two daily or do you think it will just go back to 7 weekly flights in the spring/summer. If US does away with the route altogether I can see UA adding a daily flight or even WN for that matter. I hope US does add service in PIT again and can one day trun a profit system wide.
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
phljjs
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:37 am

TOTAL: 4hr 50 min to 5hr 30 min... once again... this is under the assumption of no Delays at PHL.

While driving may get me there at the same time or faster, for $29 one-way, I'll take my chances and fly. I actually went to PIT on WN in July to see the Phillies play the Pirates. Flight to PIT was scheduled for around 12:15, pushed on time and wheels up about 5 minutes later, arrived 15 minutes early and the load factor was around 95%. On the way back we weren't so lucky. We were supposed to depart at 4:30 and were delayed for 40 minutes, finally boarded only to be parked near the fedex ramp at PIT for 2.5 hours, then suddenly taxied and took off arrived in PHL a few minutes after 8pm. The PIT-PHL segment was 100% full. It just depends on what time you decide to fly, but i have to admit that the parking, security, and check-in waits and issues don't really apply to me since i work at PHL and just use my SIDA badge to get me to the front of the lines and i park in the employee lot.
 
pitflyer
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:19 am

In addition, there are plenty of people on the west or north side of Pittsburgh that are reasonably close to the airport, and also going to the same area in Philadelphia near the airport. While of course I am only one example, I live 10 minutes from Pittsburgh airport and my best friend from college (Carnegie Mellon) now lives ten minutes from Philadelphia airport. A lot of my work colleagues live north of Pittsburgh (the quickest growing suburb) and they have a relatively quick shot down I-79 also.

I've flown the PIT-PHL route many times, earlier on USAirways, and most recently several times on Southwest. I flew once on a Saturday at a 10am flight and return back a couple hours later. (Credit run). Both flights were packed -- one flight was oversold, the other had 3 empty seats. This was when they had just went up to 5. So I can imagine that with 7 maybe they aren't quite as full, but I for one am *very* glad to have the option to be able to fly Southwest on the route when I want at a cheap fare.

PS, I'm not a leisure traveller, either. I was Chairman's Preferred with USAirways (their top level) for several years, including one year where I spent more than $50,000 with them. ($2,000 roundtrip fares to Los Angeles add up real quick) I'm glad Southwest is here. If I have to go to Philly (which I don't like from my time connecting there) at least I can get there cheap.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:29 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 17):
I'd say it's probably telling that Southwest has increased capacity between PIT & Chicago to about 800 daily seats each way while US Airways is offering about 440 daily seats.

That doesn't show anything besides that WN offers a lot of connecting opportunities at MDW which are unavailable or impractical elsewhere, while US offers few destinations from PIT not served from PHL and CLT and/or nonstop on UA from ORD.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
ScottB
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:59 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 37):
while US offers few destinations from PIT not served from PHL and CLT and/or nonstop on UA from ORD.

Well, except that US codeshares on many United flights out of ORD (while not being permitted to codeshare on PIT-ORD) and still schedules PIT like a connecting hub.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:12 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 38):
Well, except that US codeshares on many United flights out of ORD (while not being permitted to codeshare on PIT-ORD)

My point is that both the codeshare and the reduction in connecting opportunities at PIT have reduced the importance of US flights ORD-PIT. It has nothing to do with WN. The codeshare on hub to hub flying is a good bit more complicated than you imply, but as long as there is a connection at one of the hubs, there actually is codesharing on flights between them (e.g. ORD-PIT).



Quoting ScottB (Reply 38):
[US] still schedules PIT like a connecting hub.

They certainly do, but it's no PHL or CLT.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
SJCRRPAX
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:37 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 23):
it's NOT on Southwest. There's no way in hell I'd fly an airline that wouldn't even allow to interline me to another airline in the event my flight gets cancelled or connections get blown. I've had one too many blown connections in my day to do that


Must be an east coast thing, out here where the weathers fine and the Palm tree's grow, and the feeling is layback --- oops thats a Gordon Lightfoot song--- a lot of us only take WN. OK, this is the history as I know it on the left coast - you airline buffs can correct me if I'm wrong.

US AIR bought out PSA and screwed it up. WN picked up the slack and we all became happy again.

AA bought Air CAL, screwed it up, and than WN took over all the gates at SJC and we were happy again.

United Bought Reno Air, and we all switched to WN for flights to Reno.

To this day, I am convinced that US AIR didn't really buy PSA, PSA just morphed into Southwest. At least the people running the air line are happy, flights run on time, fares are great. Reminds this old timer of PSA without seat selection. I'm just waiting for WN to come out with a smile-liner.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 23):

Once again for you non-believers who've most likely never gone between Pittsburgh and Philly...



I believe you on that. I think a lot depends upon how nervous a guy you are. I know one person who always shows up 2.5 hours early for a domestic flight, and another guy that whips into the short term parking about 30 minutes before flights and always seems to board on time. The local paper did a race once from San Jose to Long Beach. One racer flew SJC to LAX and than rented a car and drove to Long Beach, the second racer drove a car from San Jose to Long Beach direct, and the third contestant Drove to SFO and flew to LAX and than rented a car. The guy that drove came in second place, the SJC flyer won by 1 hr, and the SFO guy was 90 minutes behind. I think at 300 miles or less with an Interstate like I-5 and if you hit the traffic just right the car can beat the air service with security being what it is. To me it seems a lot quicker flying even if it isn't, you can always use your laptop at the airport and connect to the internet if you like.
 
vegasplanes
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:56 pm

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 40):


Must be an east coast thing, out here where the weathers fine and the Palm tree's grow, and the feeling is layback --- oops thats a Gordon Lightfoot song--- a lot of us only take WN. OK, this is the history as I know it on the left coast - you airline buffs can correct me if I'm wrong.

US AIR bought out PSA and screwed it up. WN picked up the slack and we all became happy again.

AA bought Air CAL, screwed it up, and than WN took over all the gates at SJC and we were happy again.

United Bought Reno Air, and we all switched to WN for flights to Reno.

Agree with you up until "United Bought Reno Air", AA bought Reno Air, Air Cal version 2.0

Even HP does not have the presence WN has out here in the land of fun in the sun.

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 40):
To this day, I am convinced that US AIR didn't really buy PSA, PSA just morphed into Southwest. At least the people running the air line are happy, flights run on time, fares are great. Reminds this old timer of PSA without seat selection. I'm just waiting for WN to come out with a smile-liner.

That would be great to see a smile-liner again, looks like we will when US paints the PSA A320 retro plane.
 
N200WN
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:36 pm

I think what surprises me the most is that this is an airline/aviation enthusiast's web site and there are people here that will complain or have negative comments about an airline adding flights, hating this airline or that airline, wanting airports shut down, and wish ill will upon certain companies. Truly amazing.

I work for WN and love every minute of it...but when I heard F9 was coming to SAT my first reaction was "great." UA doing a focus city? "Awesome." Flying Southwest is an absolute blast...and flying all the others is too. Loosen up guys and enjoy everything the industry has to offer. If your saying things like "I'll never fly XX because (insert silly reason here)" then your taking it all too seriously and missing all of the fun.

And this is an open invitation to anyone who is really interested...if you're ever in SAT and want to see a Southwest operation up close and behind the scenes, just email me. I would love to show some people around.

BTW, if your basing your opinion of WN based on what you see on "Airline" your not getting a true picture of reality (I know it's called a reality show). Case in point...two days ago we had a Customer misconnect to LAX. We rerouted him on Continental. Guess who called Southwest FIVE times today to reroute Customers to Southwest? CONTINENTAL! (Although we were sold out so we couldn't accomodate in this case).
 
wedgetail737
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:55 pm

I would love to see WN fly PIT-OAK or PIT-SEA. But that's wishful thinking.

I've been very glad that WN has been filling a lot of the void of the legacy airlines buying regional airlines like PS, OC and Reno Air (can't remember what their 2-letter code was).

Right now, the only airline of any consequence that still have their home base out west is Alaska Airlines. Allegiant Air is decent size but does not have a very large presence along the west coast other than LAS. Virgin America has yet to start flying.
 
rwsea
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:32 pm

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 11):
What do you guys think the next WN city will be from PIT. I hope/think that it will be at least one of these:

LAX
FLL
PVD
BNA
RDU
SEA
SLC

Let me know what you think...

I doubt you'll see PIT-SEA, since WN has stated they won't add additional service at SEA since they can't fly to BFI instead. Oh well, I'm over it.
 
vegasplanes
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:00 pm

PIT to PVD, BWI, MHT, ISP, BDL, HOU, STL, BNA, JAX, FLL, RSW, LAX, OAK, SAN.

Those are my picks for new routes out of PIT, some more business destinations with a few leisure spots.
 
PHLBOS
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Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:38 am

RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:17 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 3):
It appears that WN is doing well in PIT. They will be adding a seventh daily flight PIT-PHL on Feb 6, 2006. I hope they continue to add service.

I wonder if FL (which still has a presence at PIT) is now kicking themselves for not continuing their PIT-PHL route several years ago?

Quoting PHLJJS (Reply 35):
While driving may get me there at the same time or faster, for $29 one-way, I'll take my chances and fly.

BTW, for the most direct driving route from central Pittsburgh to central Philadelphia; the PA Turnpike toll (from EXIT 57 (I-376/Pittsburgh) to EXIT 326 (I-76 EAST/Valley Forge)) one-way is $15.25... quite steep IMHO. While flying has its share of delays, so does driving... especially when it involves the Schuylkill Expressway (I-76 from Valley Forge to Philly) near or during rush hour.

For me, flying from PHL to PIT (or BOS for that matter, both of which I've done) vs. driving usually depends upon how long I will be staying in the area upon arrival. If my stay is only for a day or two, and I'm not carrying anything bulky; I'll fly (provided that the fare's reasonable) otherwise, I'll drive.

[Edited 2005-12-29 16:19:32]
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
Tornado82
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:26 am

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 46):
BTW, for the most direct driving route from central Pittsburgh to central Philadelphia; the PA Turnpike toll (from EXIT 57 (I-376/Pittsburgh) to EXIT 326 (I-76 EAST/Valley Forge)) one-way is $15.25... quite steep IMHO.

Yep, just like how Southwest had those newspaper ads showing Gas + tolls = More than their tickets. Just try to find one of those rock-bottom fare levels, lol.
 
ScottB
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Fri Dec 30, 2005 4:02 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 47):
Just try to find one of those rock-bottom fare levels, lol.

How about trying to find a fare under $200 each way on PIT-PHL (or a comparable route) before Southwest entered the market? Case in point: US's lowest PIT-BWI fare is over $250 each way -- but that's only with 21-day advance purchase. The 7-day advance purchase fare is an astounding $459 each way.
 
Tornado82
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RE: WN's Performance At PIT

Fri Dec 30, 2005 4:18 am

Edit: Misread post, deleted.

[Edited 2005-12-29 20:32:24]

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