concentriq
Posts: 283
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:37 am

TU134 Glassed Nose

Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:41 am

Question I have:

Older TU134s had a glassed nose, where navigators seat was/is, as shown here:
Glassed Nose:

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Photo © Philippe Ballerstedt


Cockpit:

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Photo © Harri Koskinen
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Photo © Harri Koskinen



However, some TU134's have a non-transparent nosecone as illustrated here:

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Photo © M.Oertle
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Photo © Olaf Juergensmeier


This is probably a result of upgrading, new electronics, etc, where the need for a glassed nose was no more. Now a question:

Did the layout of a cockpit change? Navigator/his seat is no longer there? Anyone know history of that?
Mobilis In Mobili
 
legion242
Posts: 216
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 10:18 am

RE: TU134 Glassed Nose

Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:16 am

Can't help with any new info, but I always thought it was funny that the Russians held on to this concept for so long. It just looks so antiquated.
Don't make me release the monkeys!!
 
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ptrjong
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RE: TU134 Glassed Nose

Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:31 am

According to some internet sources, the solid nose variants have the navigator seated between/behind the pilots.

Peter
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
xaphan
Posts: 90
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RE: TU134 Glassed Nose

Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:16 am

I wished they had kept it and sold it at a premium rate to airplane fans who would want to sit there just to pretent they were flying the airplane.
 
OV735
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RE: TU134 Glassed Nose

Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:19 am

The Tu-134 and -134A were produced in both configurations, ie with the glass nose and without it, the latter being an export variant (for countries like the DDR, Czechoslovakia, Poland, etc). The non-transparent nose cone houses the weather radar, which in glass-nosed versions was housed in the 'hump' under the cockpit floor.

The navigator's position was indeed in the glass nose, and was essential for operations in the USSR, as navigational aids were sparsely located and a lot of the navigation relied upon visual reference. In Central Europe, the situation was much better navaids-wise and thus airlines like CSA, LOT and Interflug chose the radar-nosed Tu-134, which lacked the navigator's position and thus provided better operating economics.

Note that the Tu-134B was produced only in the radar-nosed configuration. Many of them were exported to Vietnam, Syria and other countries, while some were operated in the USSR (the Latvian Civil Aviation Directorate being one of the operators, if not the only one).
 
concentriq
Posts: 283
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:37 am

RE: TU134 Glassed Nose

Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:28 am

Very informative OV735. Thank you very much.

As I understand, none were retrofitted with "non-transparent" nose?
And one more: based on some responses here, i am still confused: for the variants without the glassed nose, did they do away with navigator crew member alltogether? or did they just move his seat behind the pilots.

Quoting Xaphan (Reply 3):
I wished they had kept it and sold it at a premium rate to airplane fans who would want to sit there just to pretent they were flying the airplane.

Wouldnt that be something ;-()
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airbusA346
Posts: 7284
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RE: TU134 Glassed Nose

Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:36 am

What other aircraft had the glass nose, and what a mess that cockpits in.

Tom.
Tom Walker '086' First Officer of a A318/A319 for Air Lambert - Hours Flown: 17 hour 05 minutes (last updated 24/12/05).
 
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ptrjong
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RE: TU134 Glassed Nose

Wed Dec 28, 2005 7:08 am

Quoting Concentriq (Reply 5):
i am still confused: for the variants without the glassed nose, did they do away with navigator crew member alltogether? or did they just move his seat behind the pilots



Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 2):
the solid nose variants have the navigator seated between/behind the pilots



Quoting Concentriq (Reply 5):
As I understand, none were retrofitted with "non-transparent" nose?

This was offered by the manufacturer, but I don't think it has been done.
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
OV735
Posts: 832
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2004 8:49 am

RE: TU134 Glassed Nose

Wed Dec 28, 2005 8:29 am

Quoting Concentriq (Reply 5):
As I understand, none were retrofitted with "non-transparent" nose?

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't they did that. Many of the radar-nosed export aircraft were sold back to Russia in 1990's, though.

Quoting Concentriq (Reply 5):
for the variants without the glassed nose, did they do away with navigator crew member alltogether? or did they just move his seat behind the pilots.

As far as I know, those non-transparent-nosed -134's operated outside the USSR flew with a three-man cockpit of two pilots and a flight engineer, ie no navigator.

Quoting Concentriq (Reply 5):
What other aircraft had the glass nose, and what a mess that cockpits in.

Most Soviet aircraft designs of 1960's had those glass noses (An-8, -10, -12, Il-76, Tu-104, -114, -124 & -134 + most of their military aircraft). This kind of cockpit layout indeed has some interesting features - on the Tu-134 glass nosed variants, for example, both the captain and the F/O had their own set of thrust levers on the window side (the interesting thing being that only the Captain's had thrust reverser levers).

Regards,
OV735
 
concentriq
Posts: 283
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:37 am

RE: TU134 Glassed Nose

Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:06 am

Quoting OV735 (Reply 8):
Quoting Concentriq (Reply 5):
What other aircraft had the glass nose, and what a mess that cockpits in.

Most Soviet aircraft designs of 1960's ha...

that was strange. must be some glitch in the matrix  Wink i never asked that question, AirbusA346 did. But thank you for all your replies. OV735: welcome to my RU list
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cschleic
Posts: 1226
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 10:47 pm

RE: TU134 Glassed Nose

Wed Dec 28, 2005 8:43 pm

I always wondered about the glass noses on their planes. Navigation in Russia makes sense. Was there a military reason, too, even for civil planes?
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: TU134 Glassed Nose

Wed Dec 28, 2005 8:50 pm

Quoting Cschleic (Reply 10):
I always wondered about the glass noses on their planes. Navigation in Russia makes sense. Was there a military reason, too, even for civil planes?

There sure was.
They could be fitted with machine guns for self defense (what little good that would do).
More important they quite often when flying over western Europe tend to "get lost" and overfly military installations. A glass nose makes a great platform for "observation" cameras (which were on several occasions discovered and confiscated after landing).
I wish I were flying
 
LO231
Posts: 2227
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:55 pm

RE: TU134 Glassed Nose

Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:23 pm

Quoting OV735 (Reply 4):
thus airlines like CSA, LOT and Interflug chose the radar-nosed Tu-134

Actually, LOT operated both versions, majority of which were 134A with the navigator in front, I flew myself WAW-BRU in 1990 with glassed nose..

Regards,
LO231
Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU

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