3DoorsDown
Topic Author
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AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:10 am

KIRO news is reporting that an MD-80 on a flight from SEA-BUR had a hole open up in the fuselage about the size of a sheet of paper. They also said the ground crew has been questioned and they admitted to knocking a piece of equipment into the fuselage and not reporting it.

From the KIRO website:

http://www.kirotv.com/news/5680634/detail.html

3DD
 
EMBQA
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:12 am

Quoting 3DoorsDown (Thread starter):
They also said the ground crew has been questioned and they admitted to knocking a piece of equipment into the fuselage and not reporting it.

D'oooh that's bad news.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
rage323machine
Posts: 78
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:18 am

Glad to hear everyone is ok!!!!
I think we should get that hole checked out pretty soon!!


Tommy
 
AmericanAirFan
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:19 am

Hmm sounds silly not to report damage by the ground crew. Good thing everyone is safe.
"American 1881 Cleared For Takeoff One Seven Left"
 
dc10s4ever
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:24 am

Sounds like a whiz quiz is in order for those rampers
 
MDorBust
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:31 am

Just a thought... but when a union who is in dispute with an airline about non-union labor suddenly reports immediately after an accident that it was the non-union guys fault... umm... grain of salt time?
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
aerobalance
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:46 am

Never good to play with the lives of passengers. Not good at all - shame on them.
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
MiCorazonAzul
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:03 am

This is an awful story. My first thought was, wouldn't the pilots notice such a hole during their pre-departure walk around? At any rate, maybe this happened after that and if that's the case, shame on those who didn't report what happened. They should be charged as criminals.
Live for Today.....tomorrow is NOT guaranteed.
 
lesmainwaring
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:09 am

Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Reply 10):
They should be charged as criminals.

i agree --- it was a mistake when it happened, it became criminal when the plane pushed back from the gate and nothing was said
I want something under my wheels thats plenty long and mighty dry --- Vern Demarest
 
OPNLguy
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:19 am

Years ago when I catered for Dobbs at IAH, I had my truck positioned to meet a Braniff ORD-IAH flight that was about to terminate for the night. When the 727-200 blocked-in, Braniff personnel would not let me approach the aircraft, and a bunch of suit-types started gathering around the F/O's wingtip and looking up.

Turns out that another catering truck had hit the wingtip at ORD, damaging the trailing edge white position light, which we could see all mangled up as the aircraft rolled in. They hadn't told anyone until the aircraft was almost at IAH. Neither Braniff nor the FAA were exceptionally happy about this.

We were always taught that if you had the misfortune to hit an aircraft, stop and tell someone about it, and take your lumps right then and there. The alternative of keeping one's yap shut in the hopes that the aircraft would get out of town and be someone else's problem downline was not only stupid, but potentially dangerous. What should have been common sense for someone obviously overtasked their ability to think.

Shortly afterwards, Braniff put out an edict that mandated that all 727-200 aft galleys would henceforth be catered from the CAPTAIN'S side of the aircraft. Approaching, as well as backing away from a 727-200 aft galley was much easier from this side, since the driver always had a better view of the wing's trailing edge--much more so than having that wing on the other side of the truck. Problem was that both Braniff and United had their galleys on the F/O's side, and this new edict meant having to lug all the catering containers across 3 seats and an aisle to get to the galley.

Major pain in the butt....but I digress.

The contract ramp folks should have said something at the time the damage occurred...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
AASuper80
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:31 am

Glad everyone is safe!!!
AS doesn't seem to have very good luck with their MD80s... I wonder if they put them on another Mad Dog?  Smile
 
artsyman
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:33 am

Should the pilots not have seen this on a walk around. This is why airlines have multiple levels of checks and redundancies.
 
FlyMeToTheMoon
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:34 am

Now this is serious and real news, not the "Oprah's jet struck a bird" whine! Glad everyone is OK, I would not want to be in the skin of the poor dude responsible for the hole in the plane.
Fly me to the moon... but not through LHR!
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:48 am

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 4):
Sounds like a whiz quiz is in order for those rampers

At the very least!

Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Reply 10):
They should be charged as criminals.

Quite agree . . .

Now here's a can of worms opening up: Does anyone think this would have occured had AS used AS rampers - someone with some ownership in the carrier - rather than the flunkies employed there now?  duck 

IMO - when you have ownership in something it's much harder to let it get screwed up than if you're just an outsider looking in.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
FL1TPA
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:05 pm

A couple of replies are asking why the hole wasn't caught during the FO's walk around prior to departure. The Captain or FO MUST preform a walk around inspection of key points on the aircraft prior to departure - basically anytime while the a/c is on the ground. He must've completed it before the incident occurred.

Also, the ground personnell are supposed to do a walk around inspection of the aircraft prior to pushback to ensure all doors, hatches and panels have been securely closed before taxi. I'm sure they would have seen a gaping hole in the fuselage.

Complacency in following procedures and irresponsibility on the part of the ramp crew would be my guess.

FL1TPA
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffin' glue."
 
September11
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:08 pm

Quote from article in the link above ...

It wasn't immediately clear what caused the 12- by 6-inch hole near the cargo door on the plane's left side, but a union official told KIRO 7 Eyewitness News that a non-union baggage handler operating a conveyor machine knocked the hole in the jet.

...

Near cargo door on the plane's LEFT side?

[Edited 2005-12-28 04:14:53]
Airliners.net of the Future
 
OPNLguy
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:15 pm

Quoting September11 (Reply 18):
Cargo door on the plane's left side?

Maybe he was trying to make a hole for a cargo door on that side with the belt loader...  Wink
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Silver1SWA
Crew
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:23 pm

Quoting FL1TPA (Reply 17):
A couple of replies are asking why the hole wasn't caught during the FO's walk around prior to departure. The Captain or FO MUST preform a walk around inspection of key points on the aircraft prior to departure - basically anytime while the a/c is on the ground. He must've completed it before the incident occurred.

Also, the ground personnell are supposed to do a walk around inspection of the aircraft prior to pushback to ensure all doors, hatches and panels have been securely closed before taxi. I'm sure they would have seen a gaping hole in the fuselage.

I'm not sure about the policies at AS, but WN has an agreement with the FAA that allows the pre-flight walkaround to be done by the ground personel. The only time the F/O does a walkaround is at the beginning of the day, end of the day, or any flight they take over during a crew change.

This ramper is in some serious $!@# if the reports are true. You cannot expect that just because an aircraft is out of your hands and on its way to another city, that you are clean of any responsibility. It will always trace back to you. The NTSB and the FAA will surely be knocking on this guy's door if they haven't already.

I can't and won't go into detail, but I was involved in a slight mishap during pushback recently. While everything turned out alright and the flight continued on without incident I followed procedure and wrote up a report just in case something did happen and I had someone knocking at my door. It really is scary and things out on that ramp need to be taken very seriously.

Again, IF TRUE, this guy is in some serious trouble along with everyone else that saw this, or was aware of it happening without reporting it.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
OOer
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:30 pm

I thought that AS had outsourced the groundhandling at SEA?
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:35 pm

Quoting OOer (Reply 21):
I thought that AS had outsourced the groundhandling at SEA?

They sure did...Menzies does it...
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
lincoln
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:48 pm

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 4):
Sounds like a whiz quiz is in order for those rampers

You know, I've never worked on a ramp (or in any capacity for an airline -- but I have the utmost respect for those who do), but I would imagine that the "whiz quiz" would be administered if the person(s) responsible pointed out the accident prior to departure... I would imagine that by failing to mention the 'small' hole and letting the plane push as if nothing had happened could be considered 'gross misconduct' and immediate termination... Loss of pressurization is, I imagine, a quite significant incident as far as those things go, and the results could have been deadly.

Quoting September11 (Reply 18):
Near cargo door on the plane's LEFT side?

Depends on which end you're looking at it from  Wink

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 19):
Maybe he was trying to make a hole for a cargo door on that side with the belt loader...

"Gosh darn it, they forgot the left cargo door on this one... We can fix that [bang] [bang] [bang], darn, still not quite big enough, but this will work."

"Uh, how do we close it?"

"Don't worry about that"

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
stuckinMAF
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:50 pm

Quoting Rage323machine (Reply 5):
About 20 minutes into the flight at 26,000 feet, a loss of cabin pressurization caused the oxygen masks to deploy. The crew immediately put on their oxygen masks and instructed the 140 passengers to do the same.

A LOSS of pressurization? I don't see how the hell it could ever get pressurized with a hole that size in it to begin with. Looks to me that they should have known there was a problem by the time they were up to about 8,000 - 12,000 ft!

Oh well, nothing a couple of good strips of Duct Tape wouldn't fix!  crossfingers 
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud
 
DeltaMD11
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 1:21 pm

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 24):
A LOSS of pressurization? I don't see how the hell it could ever get pressurized with a hole that size in it to begin with. Looks to me that they should have known there was a problem by the time they were up to about 8,000 - 12,000 ft!

From the way the incident reads, I'm thinking that when the aircraft was struck with the ground machinery that the hull integrity was compromised. As the aircraft was approaching cruise speed and altitude that portion of the fuselage gave way under stress leading to the depressurization. Surely the aircraft could not have pressurized with that size of a hole in it to begin with.

Just my $0.02

Bryan
Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
 
pilotpip
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 1:31 pm

There is also more than one layer of 'skin' between the passengers and the outer fuselage. That had to be one hell of a ding.

BTW, stuff like this happens much more often than you would think. Union airline employees do it too. Labor tensions are the only reason you heard about this one. People make mistakes, and given the shear number of flights and equipment running around means that stuff like this happens much more often than you'd think.
DMI
 
aerobalance
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 1:40 pm

[quote=DeltaMD11,reply=25]Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 24):
A LOSS of pressurization? I don't see how the hell it could ever get pressurized with a hole that size in it to begin with. Looks to me that they should have known there was a problem by the time they were up to about 8,000 - 12,000 ft!

From the way the incident reads, I'm thinking that when the aircraft was struck with the ground machinery that the hull integrity was compromised. As the aircraft was approaching cruise speed and altitude that portion of the fuselage gave way under stress leading to the depressurization. Surely the aircraft could not have pressurized with that size of a hole in it to begin with.[/quote

I'm thinking this also.
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
3DoorsDown
Topic Author
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:05 pm

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 26):
There is also more than one layer of 'skin' between the passengers and the outer fuselage. That had to be one hell of a ding.

Not sure what other skin you are referring to unless you are talking the insulation blankets and the sidewall panels. Neither of these would keep the plane from depressurizing. My guess is the ding was small-ish and as the plane pressurized it stressed the ding and she blew. That might be what the pop was that was reported.

3DD
 
wedgetail737
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:05 pm

Doesn't AS management have any suspicion that these incidents with AS aircraft is fall out from getting rid of AS rampers to outsourcing them? It's pretty obvious something is wrong when the number of incidents in 2003 and 2004 were 17 and 11, respectively...then, you have over 70 ramp incidents in 2005. I think the problem lies not just in training and learning curve.

Alaska management...wake up and smell the coffee. You guys need to look deeper in these ramp problems past just safety and operations training! You guys don't need another airplane in the drink.
 
legendDC9
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:05 pm

Quoting September11 (Reply 18):
It wasn't immediately clear what caused the 12- by 6-inch hole near the cargo door on the plane's left side, but a union official told KIRO 7 Eyewitness News that a non-union baggage handler operating a conveyor machine knocked the hole in the jet.

That's kinda odd... Why would they make the point that a UNION official made a statement that a NON-UNION baggage handler caused this? Which union is this? The IAM that got kicked off the ramp and is suing the company? maybe the sheet metal union?

Accidents happen and the fact that this wasn't reported should cost the causing agent their job and make Menzies financialy responsible for the damage and resulting cancellation. I just don't know how this union cancer always manages to get into the picture, as if no damage or accident were ever caused by a represented employee. Bullsh**.
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:09 pm

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 5):
Does this happen with the outsourced help at NWA, UAL, Jet Blue, and all the other US airlines that outsource?

More often than you'd think. Less quality workers = more accidents. Simple.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
iairallie
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:19 pm

Quoting LegendDC9 (Reply 30):
as if no damage or accident were ever caused by a represented employee. Bullsh**.

A union employee would report it because they would have the security of knowing that there would be a fair investigation and due discipline proceedures would be followed.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
HikesWithEyes
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:27 pm

Quoting AASuper80 (Reply 12):
wonder if they put them on another Mad Dog?

The passengers went to BUR on a 737-400.
That was the only available aircraft and crew to substitute.
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
 
pictues
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:33 pm

has happened before when Worldwide did Alaska's ramp, not a s bad, but they hit a B737-400 with a Belt Loader and put a dent in it, it wasn't reported and found in LAX, apparently most of the crew got fired as they all knew and covered it up.
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:49 pm

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 23):
A LOSS of pressurization? I don't see how the hell it could ever get pressurized with a hole that size in it to begin with. Looks to me that they should have known there was a problem by the time they were up to about 8,000 - 12,000 ft!

I'm no structural mechanic. My read on it is a stress blow-out prior to 26,000 feet, at which point the flight turned around and headed back to SEATAC. I understand the flight was twenty minutes out.

The press report reads it took an hour and a few minutes from take off to get the flight back at SEA. Twenty out, at least twenty back, and I guess the remainder for ATC to clear the airspace.

On another board I read the SEATAC police are treating this as a criminal hit and run.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:10 pm

Aircraft skins aren't all that thick. Plastic deformation (dents) weakens the material significantly locally. Therefore, that portion of skin could not handle the same pressure loads as the rest...hence, the blowout.

Did AS replace that section of skin? The dimensions of the blowout seems to be too large to simply patch it.
 
Jerry911
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:14 pm

Many years ago (1976), when I was throwing bags for Air California at SNA, we were told by management that if we bumped an airplane with a piece of equipment, and it left noticible damage, that was grounds for dismissal. Whether that would have really happened or not, I'd bet good money that those idiots today are in the un-employment line tomorrow.
Jerry
 
wedgetail737
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:17 pm

While I worked for DAL at OAK for two summers, I was told the same thing. Replacing structure on an aircraft is NOT a cheap repair and structural damage carries a lot of liability.
 
deltaflyertoo
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:18 pm

Indeed it happened at 26,000 feet. The oxygen masks came down and on local LA tv a pax showed pics he took on his phone of everyone wearing them and the flight attendants in the aisles helping people.

Turns out there was no physical hole persay but some kind of cosmetic damage that led to this.

NBC4 in LA further reports that last year AS outsourced to some firm called Mezlie? (Sp?) Before outsourcing when AS had it in house AS had on average 15 minor mishaps between ground crews and a/c a year. In the first full year of outsourcing in 2005 the # of incidents is up over 72.
 
tozairport
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:50 pm

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 19):
I'm not sure about the policies at AS, but WN has an agreement with the FAA that allows the pre-flight walkaround to be done by the ground personel. The only time the F/O does a walkaround is at the beginning of the day, end of the day, or any flight they take over during a crew change.

YGBSM!!! I can't believe some of the things SWA gets away with. I would never want to fly a plane that a qualified person hadn't done a pre-flight check on, and no, a ramper is not a qualified person. This is total BS, but with Southwest and the FAA, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. This is definitely NOT the policy at UA. A PILOT does the walkaround each and every leg.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
 
smcmac32msn
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:50 pm

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 4):
Sounds like a whiz quiz is in order for those rampers

I don't even think those rampers deserve to take a whiz quiz. I'd understand giving them one if they admitted it before the plane left the ground (and delayed the flight), but well after the flight is gone? They should be walked right out the door with a size 11 work boot shoved in their @$$ sideways for that stunt.
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
legendDC9
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:53 pm

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 32):
A union employee would report it because they would have the security of knowing that there would be a fair investigation and due discipline proceedures would be followed.

You mean the comfort that the union would fight even for the most incompetent of employees to keep their jobs after causing major damage? A poor employee is a poor employee regardless of representation. The fact is that someone hit the aircraft, did not notify anyone and allowed the flight to leave. I am not arguing for/against your own employees, my original post had to do with why the fact that a KIRO mentioned that a union spokesperson made the comment that a non-union handler caused this, which to me just sounds a bit strange.
 
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fxramper
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:56 pm

Ding ding ding!, We have a winner, at FX, it's the company policy, to terminate any employee that does not report an a/c strike immediately. There are cameras all over those ramps, why the hell would some genius try and get away with it?!?!?

Glad all passengers and crew were allright, but this was laughable to read about!

 Sad

[Edited 2005-12-28 09:02:20]
 
tundra767
Posts: 400
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:01 pm

My friend was one of the flight attendants on this flight. She said it was crazy.
 
andrewuber
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:13 pm

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 5):
Does this happen with the outsourced help at NWA, UAL, Jet Blue, and all the other US airlines that outsource?

What the hell is that? Who said it was outsourced? And if so - does that mean that all outsourced help bangs into airplanes without reporting it?

You sound like a bitter AMFA loser. Get off the picket line, and go apply for work at your local McDonalds or Burger King. Perhaps you can rally up some anti-outsourcing talk over there.
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
doug_or
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:19 pm

RE: f/o walkarounds-

The first officer's walkaround won't catch damage from loading equipment because its done prior to loading.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
wedgetail737
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:18 pm

There are some news reports with pictures from the MD-80 in flight with the masks deployed and some videos of one passenger. Take a look at:

www.king5.com
www.kirotv.com
www.komotv.com

I think King5 requires you to register.

Another thought... A person from Menzies had mentioned that even though the belt loader hit the airplane, they didn't think that the "damage" was significant in a "driving rain." What gives Menzies people the authority to make that judgement call??? Yes...they should have contacted someone!

Do you think that all these incidents (which each incident costs lots of money, I'm sure) is worth the outsourcing. 70 incidents in 9 months, versus 11 in 2003 and 17 2004 doesn't sound too cost effective to me.
 
AJRfromSYR
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:25 pm

How much do you think that guy got for selling the picture of himself with the O2 mask?
-AJR-
 
m404
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 7:13 pm

Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
Matt72033
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 7:51 pm

Quoting Tozairport (Reply 40):
YGBSM!!! I can't believe some of the things SWA gets away with. I would never want to fly a plane that a qualified person hadn't done a pre-flight check on, and no, a ramper is not a qualified person

but you have engineers on the ramp who are qualified!
i reckon you'll find that an engineer is much likely to spot anything out of the ordinary than a pilot!
 
cfalk
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 8:14 pm

Quoting 3DoorsDown (Thread starter):
They also said the ground crew has been questioned and they admitted to knocking a piece of equipment into the fuselage and not reporting it.



Quoting AmericanAirFan (Reply 3):
Hmm sounds silly not to report damage by the ground crew. Good thing everyone is safe.

Not silly - criminal. They should be charged for gross negligence andof course, fired. If the union decides to defend them, then the airline should sue the union for damages, including the costs involved in having the plane depart and return, finding a replacement aircraft, and any costs involved with transfering passengers to other flights or overnight stays that it had to pay for.

Make it a warning for everyone: You do NOT want to cover up your mistakes. Admit a mistake, and you might get a slap on the wrist. Cover it up, and your life will be ruined.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Silver1SWA
Crew
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RE: AS MD-80 With Hole In Fuselage

Wed Dec 28, 2005 8:27 pm

Quoting Tozairport (Reply 40):

YGBSM!!! I can't believe some of the things SWA gets away with. I would never want to fly a plane that a qualified person hadn't done a pre-flight check on, and no, a ramper is not a qualified person. This is total BS, but with Southwest and the FAA, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. This is definitely NOT the policy at UA. A PILOT does the walkaround each and every leg.

Good for UA....

What doesn't make us rampers qualified? We are trained in this you know...and we do find things and point them out to the crew.

For example, the other say I spotted some ice forming under the wing. This was during a turn in which a crew change occurred. This means the F/O did a walk-around and missed the ice. I could have let it go and assumed the F/O saw it and just let it go. But I did not. I pointed it out and we ended up de-icing the aircraft. So don't tell me we aren't qualified. As far as I'm concerned, we have a good relationship with our pilots and it's things like this that gives them reason to trust us out there.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.