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DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:16 pm

Upto 90 passengers flying from AKL-RAR are considering legal action against DJ. On Christmas day the flight was ready to depart AKL when the flight crew noticed the flight was too heavy. As a result all the passengers luggage was removed from the flight. DJ intended to get all the luggage to the passengers the next day but this never happened. When the luggage finally arrived a few days later, some of the X-mas food was rotten in the passengers luggage. The passengers are angry with the way DJ has handled this and because DJ never offered the passengers food vouchers and any type of compensation considering the passengers food was in their luggage

Source: TVNZ One News

Will post a link when I find one

[Edited 2005-12-28 06:25:37]
 
timeair
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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:44 pm

If the passengers advised the check-in agents of perishable goods, and signed a limited release, then the airline may be liable for lost/damaged goods, however if the airline agent was not advised of perishable goods inside the checked baggage, the passenger has no hope!
You can't get there from here.
 
cragley
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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:56 pm

Sorry to say it folks, but if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys  Smile
 
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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:10 pm

Quoting TIMEAIR (Reply 1):
If the passengers advised the check-in agents of perishable goods, and signed a limited release, then the airline may be liable for lost/damaged goods, however if the airline agent was not advised of perishable goods inside the checked baggage, the passenger has no hope!

You've got it backwards - when u sign a LR tag, it means youve been advised that anything perishable or fragile is NOT covered.
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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:18 pm

A limited release provides a "limited" liability to the air carrier if something is to happen to one's baggage ($0.20/kg usually comes to mind) with a an upper limit of $100USD, depending on the carrier. Undeclared items are not covered, period!, if something happens to it.
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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:34 pm

Quoting TIMEAIR (Reply 1):

Thats not what this possible court action is about, its about the way DJ handled all this and their lack off response

http://www.tvnz.co.nz/view/page/411749/643473
 
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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:38 pm

Quoting Cragley (Reply 2):
Sorry to say it folks, but if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys

How is that got to do with this? It doesn't matter if the airline is a LCC or not if the airline was say QF then you would still expect the airline to do better
 
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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:42 pm

I'm a bit surprised that anyone would take perishable food - meat - in their checked luggage to a tropical island.

 confused 

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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:57 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 7):
I'm a bit surprised that anyone would take perishable food - meat - in their checked luggage to a tropical island.

When WR still flew AKL-TBU, I saw countless occasions when locals from Tonga on their way home would be carrying buckets of KFC on board as carry on luggage, I kid you not.

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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:09 pm

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 8):
I saw countless occasions when locals from Tonga on their way home would be carrying buckets of KFC on board as carry on luggage, I kid you not.

As carry on, luggage, I understand. Many Tongans are big people, they might get hungry and KFC is cooked.

I have seen (live) animals taken on aircraft in the Middle East, and once on a stripped down DC-3 - a very long time ago - three men lit a small, kerosene brazier to boil water for their tea.

It is the concept of checking raw (I assume, since it spoiled) meat to take it to a tropical island that surprises me.

At the very least, it is going to go through some extreme temperature changes and I doubt that it is going to be cooked immediately upon arrival.

What they hey? People can be very odd. Happily.

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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:11 pm

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 8):
When WR still flew AKL-TBU, I saw countless occasions when locals from Tonga on their way home would be carrying buckets of KFC on board as carry on luggage, I kid you not.

That is so true NZ1. When I was with MAF at WLG, I lost count each time on how many Tongans on PHs flight from Apia had food on their checked in and carry on luggage. I was based at one of the X-ray machines. Every time the PH flight landed one or two MAF employees would go into the cargo hold cause of the PH flight

[Edited 2005-12-28 08:14:18]
 
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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:17 pm

I saw the same thing happen *not on xmas day though*. On the t.v show (holiday cyprus) or something like that on TV1, one of the charter airlines forgot nearly all of the people's bags in Nottingham or somwhere around the East Midlands. The airline then flew the bags in something like 4 days afterwards into Paphos airport, on the other side of the island and the bags got delivered by coach. People were not very happy as they did not want to have to spend money on buying swim-suits e.t.c. The airline didn't face possible court action (or so I hear).
I do think DJ handled the situation badly.
 
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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:25 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 11):

I remember watching that, I think it was a family thou that it affected
 
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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:47 pm

Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):
Upto 90 passengers flying from AKL-RAR are considering legal action against DJ. On Christmas day the flight was ready to depart AKL when the flight crew noticed the flight was too heavy. As a result all the passengers luggage was removed from the flight. DJ intended to get all the luggage to the passengers the next day but this never happened. When the luggage finally arrived a few days later, some of the X-mas food was rotten in the passengers luggage. The passengers are angry with the way DJ has handled this and because DJ never offered the passengers food vouchers and any type of compensation considering the passengers food was in their luggage

Two things about this, first - the passengers travel with far too much luggage on these routes, and we regularly have issues where we also have weight restrictions to enforce to get the plane off the ground - usually 20kg each no payable excess does the trick. Secondly travelling with perishable food in these polysteryne boxes in the way that these passengers have requires they sign the limited release that protects the airline. We are talking about raw fish, pork, umu packs,KFC and countless other items checked in, unrefrigerated...(meaning they will be off by the time they get off in RAR). As far as I'm concerned DJ should have been more strict from the start of check in to keep to the allowances for the flight.However No payment to the pax is necessary because of the LRF. The Pax are fully aware of this at check in

These flights up to the islands are notorious for having ridiculous quantities of luggage, perishable goods and the rest of it and DJ will learn from experience here that on routes like these that there are always difficulties with weight/balance etc if you aren't militant.

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 8):
When WR still flew AKL-TBU, I saw countless occasions when locals from Tonga on their way home would be carrying buckets of KFC on board as carry on luggage, I kid you not.

Hand Luggage & checked luggage. I have that on a daily basis, and let me tell you nothing makes you laugh more than confiscating 50kg worth of hand luggage that is made up of KFC,Chocolate and anything else they can fit.
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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:13 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 6):
still expect the airline to do better

Does DJ do their own check-in at AKL? Sounds like they have quite a bit to learn about running a service to the Pacific Islands  slaphappy 
 
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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:19 am

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 14):
Does DJ do their own check-in at AKL?

Menzies Aviation handle it.
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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:45 am

Ok lets get this right.

You are flying on a LCC and as such, they advise you that they are not liable for X Y and Z. Yet you agree that its such a great deal and that you are willing to travel under different liability (none).
And then to everyones suprise, something like this happens and then you turn around and say that it's unfair. Yet you did agree that you would NOT be covered in case of such circumstances.

So why should the airline be responsible for what happend? You did agree to waiver the majority of your rights. You did agree to pay a lower fare, and that was the condition of travel. You pay less, you get less.

Lets face it, if you want greater coverage in case of emergencies, or if you want to be treated the same way that you are treated by a full service airline, then sorry to say it, you travel with that airline.

If a flight was cancelled with NZ would you expect to be rebooked on another airline at NZ's expense? YES!!!

If a flight was cancelled with Virgin Pacific, would you expect them to rebook you onto another airline?  Smile

Ultimately if it's a LCC, it means LOW COST and limited liability. And sometimes, low service due to the different working conditions that they face.

So, you if you pay peanuts, you will get monkeys.
 
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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:53 am

Quoting Cragley (Reply 16):
So why should the airline be responsible for what happend? You did agree to waiver the majority of your rights. You did agree to pay a lower fare, and that was the condition of travel. You pay less, you get less.

It has nothing to do with the fare, nor does it have much to do with DJ - even if they were all Business Class Star Alliance Gold elite members on NZ up to RAR they wouldn't be covered. That's the whole point of the limited release form. The intention is that the Limited release is there to discourage people travelling with items that are fragile or perishable unless they are willing to sign that we are not responsible for damge for any reason. I think the only factor here is DJs inexperience in dealing with Island flights. They will know better next time.
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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:25 am

Interesting ... the Chinese also checks in uncooked meat, seafood etc from Australia to take home, although usually these are pretty expensive so they're packaged pretty well with dry ice.

Doesn't the conditions of carriage take care of the limited liability for luggage scenario? Aren't pax "expected" to know the conditions attached to their ticket?

And, why isn't there a KFC in Tonga?
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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:21 am

Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 18):
And, why isn't there a KFC in Tonga?

I see from your profile that you are avoiding work at the moment. Seems to me you might wish to change your status and get a KFC franchise in RAR and APW.
 
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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:57 pm

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 14):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 6):
still expect the airline to do better


Does DJ do their own check-in at AKL?

No, this is done by Menzies Aviation.
 
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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Sun Jan 01, 2006 1:20 pm

Quoting AerorobNZ (Reply 17):
I think the only factor here is DJs inexperience in dealing with Island flights.

The factor is MENZIES AVIATION's inexperience in dealing with Island flights, not DJ's. Far more militance should have been displayed at check-in, the Menzies agents were the ones who allowed the guests to check in EXORBITANT amounts of luggage on the flight in question, AND to allow guests to board the aircraft with EXORBITANT amounts of hand luggage.

The DJ cabin crew also had to have carry on luggage REMOVED from this flight by the Menzies ground crew as there simply was no room for it all.

It is commonplace for the guests on Island flights to carry excessive amounts of carry-on and checked baggage. This particular flight was simply the worst example of this to date.

No doubt DJ will be working with Menzies to ensure Menzies do a better job at policing luggage limits in the future.
 
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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:23 pm

Quoting DJ738 (Reply 21):
Menzies

Hey DJ738, nothing at ALL against Virgin/Pacific/Poly Blue, BUT, you pay peanuts and you will get monkeys. Menzies at AKL seem to hire their staff directly off the street in Otara/Mangere, and throw them into it. Look at the loaders. No idea at all what they are doing and/or very little respect for the pax baggage. Out of all the aircraft we have had in the hangar for repairs due to "damage found while loading" I would say at least 90% would be aircraft handled by Menzies.

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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Sun Jan 01, 2006 4:03 pm

Flew DJ into AKL last year (seated in the front). We park off at a remote stand. Menzies drive up the stair truck but leave about a 30cm gap between the top of the stairs and the aircraft. Lead FA asks "aren't you going to move the stairs any closer?", Menzies agent replies (picture big Pacific Islander) "oh no, it okay." Needless to say the number 1 made them bring the stairs closer before we de-planed. Pretty much sums up Menzies in my opinion.
 
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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Sun Jan 01, 2006 7:25 pm

Quoting DJ738 (Reply 21):
The factor is MENZIES AVIATION's inexperience in dealing with Island flights, not DJ's.

Menzies have done FJ & PH in the past, and I think they did some of the Solomon flights when they operated. Yes it could well be Menzies, but it is just as likely DJs lack of guidelines to enforce. How can you expect ground staff to police rules that aren't written down. With all our customer carriers they give us strict guidelines to enforce, but I think DJs arrival into some of these markets was rushed to meet a need of passengers, rather than waiting for their structure to be set up.

I know several of the higher ranked staff of airlines looked after by Menzies, and they say that the service is very good in general, but that it was the airline who was responsible for training up the staff correctly on their procedures.
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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:52 pm

Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):
As a result all the passengers luggage was removed from the flight.

That was some OVER weight flight if ALL the bags were offloaded;

Having seen these flights check-in....it's not surprising the aircraft was overweight....but to take off ALL the bags.

Someone in Load Control Managment had not been monitoring the Traffic Load/Weight and allowed the situation to happen.

How did the get the bags there? NZ767 as Expediate Bags? or Charter Freight?


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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:13 am

Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 23):
Lead FA asks "aren't you going to move the stairs any closer?", Menzies agent replies (picture big Pacific Islander) "oh no, it okay." Needless to say the number 1 made them bring the stairs closer before we de-planed. Pretty much sums up Menzies in my opinion.

This kind of occurrence is commonplace in AKL. As I said in my previous post, it was our cabin crew that had to basically demand that Menzies ground crew staff come on board and remove all the extra hand baggage they had allowed the guests to bring with them.

I'll be honest and say as cabin crew I don't know how contracts with ground handling agents are established, and therefore I don't know who should have trained who, and whether or not manuals / written guidelines should have been provided by DJ to Menzies, but what I do know is that AKL is the thorn in the side of our operation and these problems don't happen at any other port we fly to.
 
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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:48 am

Quoting DJ738 (Reply 27):
but what I do know is that AKL is the thorn in the side of our operation and these problems don't happen at any other port we fly to.

Maybe DJ should change ground handlers to Air NZ.  Smile

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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:16 am

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 27):
Maybe DJ should change ground handlers to Air NZ.

Yep - I guarantee that I am militant about hand carry -especially to certain destinations..... People with large/too many hand carry bags is one of my pet peeves.
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RE: DJ (Pacific Blue) Facing Possible Court Action

Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:43 am

Quoting Aerorobnz (Reply 28):
Yep - I guarantee that I am militant about hand carry -especially to certain destinations..... People with large/too many hand carry bags is one of my pet peeves

And mine Aerorobnz! As I'm the one that has to stow it in the lockers!!  Smile

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