BA777
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Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:00 pm

Naked Pilots, Harassment, NUDE CONSPIRACIES

----

Cabin crew fear sexual harassment if they must wake pilots

Air stewardesses on long-haul Cathay Pacific flights have complained about being told to wake up sleeping pilots in their bunks, saying they may be put in
embarrassing situations or subjected to sexual harassment.

Stewardesses on the new Airbus A340-600 have to go into a private cabin where a relief pilot is sleeping alone, sometimes naked, and shake him to wake him, the Flight Attendants' Union (FAU) says.

The union's chairwoman, Becky Kwan Siu-wa, said the practice had become an issue since the introduction of the long-range Airbus, which has sleeping quarters for cabin and cockpit crew.

Unlike other long-haul planes, the sleeping quarters on the three A340-600s in
the Cathay fleet have a separate cabin with a closing door where one of the four pilots on duty will rest, usually alone.

"We have to enter the room, and if you don't want to wake other people up in the sleeping quarters outside, you have to be very quiet. You have to be very gentle and really physically touch the person to wake them up," said Ms Kwan. "Some people have the habit of sleeping naked and sometimes they might wake up [if a stewardess comes in] and say 'oh, my lucky dream'.

"It is dark and a person is sleeping by himself or herself, because we also have
women pilots. We could also have people with different sexual preferences. If
you send a male steward down to a male pilot you might also have a problem.

"No individual is comfortable enough to go into a dark room and wake someone up. You have to have physical contact to wake someone up when they are fast asleep. Most people do sleep naked if they are by themselves in a room in the dark."

Flight attendants have taken their complaint to management. The union has asked for the practice to stop and for pilots to be told to use wristwatch alarms to wake themselves, but Cathay refused the demand.

Ms Kwan said the issue was first raised more than a year ago when flight
operations management gave a vague promise that cabin crew would not be sent to wake sleeping pilots.

A Cathay spokeswoman said alternatives of using an alarm clock or a tannoy-style announcement were impractical as they would wake other crew sleeping in the same rest area.

"Out of consideration for the other crew, it can be preferable for cabin crew to
wake the cockpit crew," she said.

"Cockpit crew may have different rest periods to cabin crew and therefore have
different body-clock rest requirements."

She said: "We have not had any reported cases of embarrassment or harassment by cockpit or cabin crew in the crew rest area."

Source: South China Morning Post
Date: 25 December 2005
 
cityjet
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:22 pm

So if the relief copilot sleeps naked...............when he goes on duty...does the other pilot have to sleep in the pre-warmed bed ?
 
CV580Freak
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:22 pm

What's the story - morning glory springs to mind  rotfl   rotfl 
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
DeltaWings
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:29 pm

Well, all major airlines of today have thier problems. DL is fighting for cash, as the fuel prices rise more and more, NW is laying off thousands of jobs also to stay alive, and CX, well, has to solve the problem of difficult embarrassing situations about how to wake up the pilots...Hope this wont lead to Chapter 11 sarcastic 
Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
 
SpeckSpot
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:14 am

I think they should invent vibrating pillows that can either be controlled from a switch outside the room, or function autonomously with the same sort of
trigger an alarm clock has. Hopefully the pillow vibration can be set to a level
and speed strong enough to wake anyone, but soft enough not to transmit through the airframe to the neighboring bunks. Nice little engineering problem.

Speckspot
 
kanebear
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:28 am

Quoting SpeckSpot (Reply 4):
I think they should invent vibrating pillows that can either be controlled from a switch outside the room, or function autonomously with the same sort of
trigger an alarm clock has. Hopefully the pillow vibration can be set to a level
and speed strong enough to wake anyone, but soft enough not to transmit through the airframe to the neighboring bunks. Nice little engineering problem.

Speckspot

These already exist for the deaf.
 
JCS
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:35 am

Why don't they offer the honor of waking-up the pilot to the highest bidding passenger? They could make an special application in the personal-entertainment system for this with a photo, video of the pilot's home, if necessary pilot's gender and his or her sexual preferences. No embarrassment or harassment left, just happiness!  tongue 
 
slashd0t
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:39 am

Why not just implement a button alarm on the outside of the door.. When you push the button, is sets off an alarm similar to an alarm clock inside the room .. I can only imagine the jokes being played on crew, but, this does solve the privacy issue quite cheaply.
/.
 
kellmark
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:47 am

I am sure that there are alarm devices that can easily do the job without disturbing others.

Why hasn't the company thought of the obvious? Have the pilots be responsible for their own wake time.

And as far as the "dress" or "undress" code, that is also easily solved. No nudity allowed. They are still on duty. If the pilots can't live with it, then they shouldn't be flying that aircraft for that airine.

Why is this so difficult?
 
fraT
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:47 am

Quoting Kanebear (Reply 5):
These already exist for the deaf.

Deaf Pilots????  Big grin Big grin Big grin
 
BigOrange
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:55 am

Why not just make a rule stating that the company knows your sexual preferences? That way you make sure that only a straight member of the same sex can wake up the sleeping crew!
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:58 am

Quoting Cityjet (Reply 1):
So if the relief copilot sleeps naked...............when he goes on duty...does the other pilot have to sleep in the pre-warmed bed ?

And if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it...
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
highflier92660
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:51 am

For a moment I thought this thread was about those Miami Air nudist flights of a year or so ago. Actually that was a brainchild of a nudist travel agency from Houston, Texas called Castaways Travel. The destination was a bare butt resort near Cancun, Mexico and the Boeing 727-200 flight received wide media attention. From all reports it was a happy wholesome group of slightly out-of-shape middle-aged vacationers in the buff as the plane climbed above 10,000 ft. I don't believe clothing issues "below and above 10" are covered in the FAA regs along with sterile cockpit and 250 knots indicated.

From all reports the cockpit and cabin crew remained fully dressed.
 
rpaillard
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:15 am

Quoting SpeckSpot (Reply 4):
I think they should invent vibrating pillows

Bad idea, it's another sex harassment, but from the management that time, or worst, from the manufacturer of the device Big grin
Your are close to sexual incentive in that case !!  cheerful   cheerful 

Sorry, it was just a joke for fun Big grin

To be serious, yes it could be a problem to address. But give me a break, I am pretty sure that it is NOT the biggest one for this industry !
FLY SKYTEAM JETS
 
AMS5280
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:17 am

I'm sure everyone at CX knows by now who the nude pilots are so it's time to invest in remote controlled shock collars for these lucky individuals. Some people like that stuff anyway.
 
Matt72033
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:18 am

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 3):
Hope this wont lead to Chapter 11

no, its only the Us government that bails out its airlines!  Wink
 
zvezda
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:21 am

This is as absurd as nurses complaining that they might have to see a nude patient. Most normal adults sleep nude. If it helps pilots to rest better, then the cabin staff need to cope or find a different job.
 
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ManuCH
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:21 am

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 10):
That way you make sure that only a straight member of the same sex can wake up the sleeping crew!

... or a homosexual member of the opposite sex, just in case every crewmember is gay  Smile
Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
 
leelaw
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:33 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 16):
Most normal adults sleep nude.

Have pajamas and nightgowns gone out of style?  Smile
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
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antoniemey
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:57 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 16):
Most normal adults sleep nude.

Uhh, you have survey results to back that statement up? I don't sleep nude.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
iairallie
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:26 am

I fly with an FA who had a vibrating alarm wristwatch designed for the deaf she used it at home so she didn't wake her husband and on the plane so she doesn't wake the other crewmembers on break.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
zvezda
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:03 am

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 19):
Uhh, you have survey results to back that statement up?

Let's just say I have a statistically significant data set.  Wink
 
akelley728
Posts: 1965
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:10 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 16):
Most normal adults sleep nude.



Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 19):
Uhh, you have survey results to back that statement up? I don't sleep nude.



Quoting Zvezda (Reply 21):
Let's just say I have a statistically significant data set

Here are more scientific results:

ABC News:

"In other personal predilections, men are twice as likely as women to sleep in the nude (31 percent of men, 14 percent of women)" (This ABC News "Primetime Live" survey was conducted by telephone, by female interviewers only, Aug. 2-9, 2004, among a random national sample of 1,501 adults. The results have a 2.5-point error margin for all respondents.)

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/News/story?id=156921&page=1
 
Morvious
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:11 am

A bucket of water above every bed will do the trick.

The captain must be responsible for his time, and if he fails, he will know it  Wink

There are plenty of solutions for this, but most of them will make the A346 even heavier, maybe that's the reason why they don't want switches and alarm clocks  duck 
have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
 
FlyboyOz
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:14 am

LOL!...I'm wearing CX first class pyjamus. CX cabin crews should knock the door loudly and give pyjamus to him.
The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
 
aircanl1011
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:54 am

Quoting Kellmark (Reply 8):
And as far as the "dress" or "undress" code, that is also easily solved. No nudity allowed

I totally agree. If the pilot needs to have a member of the crew wake him/her, then he/she should be prepared to sleep in an manor that is appropriate to the person waking them.

I don't see how a person can sleep comfortably in the nude if they know that they going to be woken up by a fellow crew member. I wouldn't want to wake up and find that my blanket had fallen off and my bits n pieces were exposed to the person who woke me.

Can you imagine a soldier in the trenches during the war complaining because he feels more comfortable sleeping nude than with is uniform on.

Come on CX pilots get those jammies on and stop causing all this bother!!!!  shhh   shhh   zzz   zzz   zzz   zzz 
CYMRU AM BYTH / WALES FOREVER
 
MidnightMike
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:21 am

Nasty, grown men sleeping in the nude, on those long flights you could be sleeping in the same bed, that a naked man just woke up naked, so, you get the luxury of smelling all of his lovely body parts.
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3201
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:43 am

There should definitely be electric-shock devices to wake them up. This would be another example of technology crossover from the defense industry to civilian use.

Alternatively, perhaps the FA could enter the room and dip the pilot's hand in a cup of warm water.
7 hours aint long-haul
 
727EMflyer
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:54 am

Interesting topic to me. The fact that there is a complaint indicates someone has been unprofessional. CX should find that person or persons and set them straight. Any problems can be solved by applying a proffesional ettiquete. Of course I say the alarm clock is the easiest solution... a clock weighs very little and if someone else is woken, well, they'll soon learn to fall right back to sleep.

In my line of work, people sleep in close quarters for months at a time, on different schedules, with people giving personal wake-up's all the time. Oh, yeah, and there are typically 110 beds to be shared amongst 140 men... People complain about it but then again there is pride gained from enduring the hardship.
I think the CX folks can set some standards and soon enough everyone will get used to it... Heck it will even be fun to "inaugurate" then new-hire's in the wake up drill!

Regards,
Jeff
 
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PA110
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:10 am

Quoting SpeckSpot (Reply 4):
I think they should invent vibrating pillows that can either be controlled from a switch outside the room, or function autonomously with the same sort of
trigger an alarm clock has. Hopefully the pillow vibration can be set to a level
and speed strong enough to wake anyone, but soft enough not to transmit through the airframe to the neighboring bunks. Nice little engineering problem.

And if nudity is already an issue, can you imagine what uses they will find for this pillow?  eek 
It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
 
MidnightMike
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:19 am

Quoting 3201 (Reply 27):
here should definitely be electric-shock devices to wake them up. This would be another example of technology crossover from the defense industry to civilian use.

Alternatively, perhaps the FA could enter the room and dip the pilot's hand in a cup of warm water.

Cattle Prodder will work!

Shock Prodder

An easy way to get cattle moving.

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MD-90
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:26 am

Who sleeps naked on an airplane packed full of passengers? It's a strange complaint, that's for sure.
 
a3xx900
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:32 am

That is rediculous. Seriously. Why cant they use alarm clocks? A simple, 5-dollar alarm clock would do. But noooooo it's gotta be carried to the union and the management...
Gosh, some people are just stupid.
Why is 10 afraid of 7? Because 7 8 9.
 
c5onknees
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:20 am

Ive heard about on a Cargo flight (744), a now passed on Captain was asleep in one of the crew bunks in the rear of the upper deck and came up to the cockpit in only cowboy boots to ask if anybody wanted a drink while he was up.. no worries with himself I guess.
 
toxtethogrady
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:51 pm

"... or a homosexual member of the opposite sex, just in case every crewmember is gay"

Someone's been watching too many episodes of "Mile High"

 Silly  Wow!  Cool
 
deltagator
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:22 pm

If the crew rest area is kind of like the coffin arrangement sleep with your head closest to the door at the front. That way the hypersensitive stewardess sees your big head first and doesn't have to be exposed to the "little pilot" unless they want to be. You would think some of these folks had never seen a damn penis before.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
iwok
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:23 pm

Quoting AIRCANL1011 (Reply 25):
I totally agree. If the pilot needs to have a member of the crew wake him/her, then he/she should be prepared to sleep in an manor that is appropriate to the person waking them.

What if you've got a boner? PJ's or not, that would be funny..

iwok
 
Cure
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:00 pm

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 10):
a rule stating that the company knows your sexual preferences

I can perfectly seeing such a rule used for hiring&firing or something...
Absolutely not a good one, not even joking!...Much worst than giving informations for terrorists on a forum.

Quoting A3xx900 (Reply 32):
That is ridiculous. Seriously. Why cant they use alarm clocks? A simple, 5-dollar alarm clock would do. But noooooo it's gotta be carried to the union and the management...
Gosh, some people are just stupid.

I Agree.
No, seriously: are we going mad?
How about not sleeping naked when on duty?

Regards,

V
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:13 pm

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 20):
I fly with an FA who had a vibrating alarm wristwatch

I had one of those. I stopped using it after the first night. It caused me to piss the bed.  Sad

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:13 pm

What complete rubbish....no-one sleeps naked. It's just the cabin crew union stirring things up. They have done so on a few silly issues recently...makes me think that something bigger is stirring in the wings and they want the publicity. Time for contract negotiations perhaps?
 
MAS777
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:47 pm

Whether any pilot sleeps naked or not - this is unfortunately a rather real (albeit silly to some) situation of the world we live in today.

Working in the medical field - we have had to undergo a series of training events to deal with chaperones and situations that could be mistaken for uncompromising situations. No-one likes to deal with them and there does need to be some safety mechanism to protect BOTH individuals involved.

Don't forget that it is all too easy to assume that CX's union is trying to only protect its cabin crew but in trying to set up some agreed arrangement between the pilots and cabin crew would actually protect BOTH parties concerned.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:55 pm

Install Monitoring Cameras  biggrin 
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:10 pm

Quoting Kellmark (Reply 8):
And as far as the "dress" or "undress" code, that is also easily solved. No nudity allowed. They are still on duty. If the pilots can't live with it, then they shouldn't be flying that aircraft for that airine.

Why is this so difficult?

Fully agree.... a pilot sleeping on a long flight is still on duty....there is absolutely no excuse for sleeping nude....imagine if pax in the cabins started doing that.....

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 16):
This is as absurd as nurses complaining that they might have to see a nude patient. Most normal adults sleep nude. If it helps pilots to rest better, then the cabin staff need to cope or find a different job.

Most inappropriate comparison....nurses see patients who are often incapable of dressing/undressing themselves.....a pilot who is being woken up to fly a A346 should atleast be able to keep his clothes on while sleeping.... Wink
 
peteryeong
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:02 am

Well, well, well

OK. I am not a pilot but I do sleep naked. Nor do I have an above average apendage (so to speak) But if touched at a sensitive spot (or more to the point, a sensitive part) whether in deep slumber or stone cold sober I would react as any other person would. So the flight attendent who has the job of waking up a person, whether passenger or pilot just need to ensure that
he or she only touches the person's arm or shoulder , and surely they are trained to do that -or are these also sensitive parts? As I frequent flyer sometimes I wish when I was awoken that it would be otherwise.

Me thinks Becky does protest too much. Last time I flew Cathay the stews were beginning to look like dogs -service still OK though. And maybe she and her union members should consider themselves lucky they are working for Southwest. Wasnt there that bit about 2 of their pilots flying in their birthday suits?
 
deltagator
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:28 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 38):
I had one of those. I stopped using it after the first night. It caused me to piss the bed.

You spin it however you need to spin it.  biggrin 
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
gift4tbone
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:50 am

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 19):
Uhh, you have survey results to back that statement up? I don't sleep nude.

What about THAT as the next a.net survey? I'd like to see THOSE results.

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 42):
.imagine if pax in the cabins started doing that.....

Alright. Thanks for the idea. I'll do that next time I'm on a 2+ hr flight, and if anyone says anything I will refer to this thread, and that episode of seinfeld where the guy rides the subway nude.

And for the record, I don't sleep nude. It's called UNDERWEAR!

These pilots should AT LEAST wear underwear, if not, be fully dressed, as they are working.

-Tony@PVD
Top 3 airports: PVD 23.9%(138 flights), PHL 14.7%(85 flights), PHX 10.2%(59 flights)
 
SLUAviator
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:11 am

Can you imagine one of the naked sleepers going sleep walking in the pax cabin? Welcome aboard CX!!!! Enjoy your flight!!!!
What do I know? I just fly 'em.......
 
Jeremy
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:39 am

Nude Pilots.
Sounds like a similar incident at Southwest.
They had a couple of pilots who took their clothes off on the flightdeck.
You are now free to be sexually harassed and then terminated for filing a complaint--Southwest Airlines to me.
 
halls120
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:15 pm

I'm all for nude pilots, as long as they are female and make frequent trips into the cabin to say hi!

 duck 
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
CaptainTim
Posts: 378
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RE: Naked Pilots, Harassment, Nude Conspiracies!

Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:51 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 48):
I'm all for nude pilots, as long as they are female and make frequent trips into the cabin to say hi!

geez expected this to be said a lil higher up... maybe top 10 replies? hahaha took soo long for someoen to suggest that female pilots sleeping naked  Wink

haha

i live in HK~ read the SCMP on that sunday mornign at breakfast and i spat my tea all over the table.. i mean WAT THEY SLEEP NAEKD.. -.-" ok?

and i thought for a sec.. thats a whole load of BS ~ must be the damn union starting crap up again jsut to gain publicity and gain some talks... stupid ppl...

tim
Gulfstream Planeview Cockpit: "why have hundreds of buttons when a CCD does the same thing and more?"