globalflyer
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ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:14 am

Happy Holidays to all... just curious to know if anyone has any idea if any new carriers have Atlanta (ATL) on their radar for the new year? I would have to believe that ATL must be the largest airport in the world that is serviced by the fewest number of carriers? Just seems like carriers are continuing to decline here. We lost jetBlue and Corporate Air (which became RegionsAir who flew J-31s ATL-BNA) and reading into another thread looks like Independence Air will be gone in a few weeks too? Of course the "hometown" scheduled-charter, TransMeridien, failed a few months ago as well. Appreciate any updates out there. Happy New Year!
Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
 
gr8slvrflt
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:18 am

Spirit is starting soon with, I believe, once daily to FLL. Rumors of jetBlue returning. Talk of Alitalia as well.
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:23 am

I would guess Alaska might come to ATL. It seems to fit their eastward expansion strategy and I am sure they could be successful with 2 SEA non-stops. Just a hunch though.
 
globalflyer
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:35 am

Yes I forgot about Spirit doing the ATL-FLL run. Is it once a day? Wonder how that will play out seeing that DL and FL have such a huge market on that sector. As for B6...I personally hated to see them leave. I never understood why they did not start ATL-JFK? If they had started that with 5 or so daily flights that really would have been a hit! I would also LOVE to see AS start ATL-SEA and even ATL-PDX as there is NO competition on those segments nonstop. But I know that DL codeshares with AS on the ATL-SEA so I would be curious to see if that ever happens.

AS for International service, I wondered why AZ never started since they joined Skyteam. Wonder if OK would start ATL-PRG or any of the new "associate" members (COPA, TAROM, Kenya or Air Europa) would ever flew to ATL?
Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
 
BigGSFO
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:10 am

Quoting Globalflyer (Reply 3):
But I know that DL codeshares with AS on the ATL-SEA so I would be curious to see if that ever happens.

AS jumped into the SEA-DFW market in spite of an AA code-share. If they see potential, they will enter the market with their own planes reagardless of a code-share.

Not sure about PDX-ATL though.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:13 am

When the East International Terminal is built, more international carriers may be attracted.

If the proposed South Passenger Complex is built (which IMO should be called the Z terminal), Airtran could move into there and more LCCs may take up the open gates.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
globalflyer
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:34 am

Yes it will be interesting. Funny how the Cargo market is booming. LH and China Air Lines fly 747-400s and Cathay Pacific is starting service from HKG and DFW. Maybe the start of pax services with cargo testing the market first? Probably not since CX is oneworld.

I do hope that South African will not leave but am fearful they will in 2006 once they officially become a member of Star.
Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
 
BigGSFO
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:27 am

Quoting Globalflyer (Reply 6):
I do hope that South African will not leave but am fearful they will in 2006 once they officially become a member of Star.

I thought this was a done deal as they are returning to MIA?
 
globalflyer
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:26 am

SAA did discontinue the CPT flights but still operate the JNB segment daily on A340-600s... one of the rare treats we see in ATL everyday. As far as I know they have not officially stated that they would discontinue ATL but have since opened up IAD so I figure it will probably be a given!  Sad
Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
 
Flyer732
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 5:32 am

Quoting Globalflyer (Thread starter):
Of course the "hometown" scheduled-charter, TransMeridien

Don't forget World  Smile
CX has already started ATL, it has been running for about a month now with pretty good loads in and out.

There has been an African International DC-8F here on and off for the past few mornings, no clue where its been going.
 
gr8slvrflt
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:06 am

I've seen a CRJ-700 in full HP colors several times lately. I assuming its operating US Airways Express to PIT?
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
as739x
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:21 am

Globalflyer: Actually ATL is high on Alaska's list of destination. AS is currently in a fleet capacity problem. But do not be surprised to see our Eskimo's in ATL, though I can not say if it will be in '06.

ASLAX
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
gr8slvrflt
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:26 am

I've seen a CRJ-700 in full HP colors several times lately. I assuming its operating US Airways Express to PIT?

Never mind, I just looked it up. It's actually a CRJ-900 operated by America West Express to CLT. US Airways no longer flies ATL-PIT and operates only Express flights to CLT and PHL!
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:28 am

Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Reply 10):
I've seen a CRJ-700 in full HP colors several times lately. I assuming its operating US Airways Express to PIT?

You saw a CRJ-900 then, HPX doesn't have any CRJ-700s.
 
srbmod
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:32 am

Quoting As739x (Reply 11):
But do not be surprised to see our Eskimo's in ATL, though I can not say if it will be in '06.

But who'll start ATL-SEA-ATL first, AS or FL?

As for potential new carriers into ATL, one that immediately jumps to mind is Virgin America if they really do start service (which looks to be a good in 2006). Anyone else think that WS could potentially start service to ATL as well? And with MX now under new ownership, anyone think they may start service here as well?

As for international carriers, who really knows. AZ has been long rumored, as has SU. If LHR opens up for more US cities and or carriers, perhaps we may see VS or BD start service (I still think that BD or VS should start ATL-MAN service, as DL has a monopoly on the route.).
 
goomba
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:33 am

With Alaska on the Delta alliance program, it seems only right that they start coming into KATL soon.

I know this will probably never happen, but I would love to see Virgin Atlantic send a daily flight into KATL. British Airways has one flight a day (777) Gatwick, and Delta has a few flights (767-300ER) Gatwick as well.

If I were booking, I'd much rather fly a Virgin 747-400 than a Delta 767-300ER every day of the week and twice on Sunday.  Smile

Just my humble opinion.
 
MarkATL
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:47 am

What other airlines should come here? If not for an oversized Delta hub and a moderate sized AirTran hub, Hartsfield would be no more than a spoke airport commensurate with the size of the metro area.

-=MarkATL=-
"...left my home in Georgia, 'n headed for the "Frisco" Bay...
 
goomba
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:53 am

It would be great if United merged with Delta and took ATL - then you would get some cool traffic in there.

But it looks like United and Continental are going to marry and Delta and Northwest as well.

The Delta and Northwest merger will surely make Atlanta a more exciting airport to spot at.

Gotta love watching old DC-9's and RJ's takeoff and land all day.  Smile
 
nkops
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:58 am

Quoting Globalflyer (Reply 3):
Wonder how that will play out seeing that DL and FL have such a huge market on that sector.

Actually, NK will be going more for the connecting traffic to the carribbean thru FLL as opposed to local traffic.... much the same way they will market DFW.
:evil:
 
ucunnn
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:07 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 14):
And with MX now under new ownership, anyone think they may start service here as well?

As far as i know MX had intentions now under new management to get into route slike DFW-MTY and yes getting into ATL however, i am still not sure which route to start will be good for MX to ATL. I guess ATL-MEX is already well covered. Maybe ATL-CUN or ATL-BJX would be a nice choice for MX.
 
db373
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:33 am

Quoting Globalflyer (Reply 3):
I would also LOVE to see AS start ATL-SEA and even ATL-PDX as there is NO competition on those segments nonstop. But I know that DL codeshares with AS on the ATL-SEA so I would be curious to see if that ever happens.

Am I reading this right? DL runs five nonstops daily ATL-SEA and four nonstops daily ATL-PDX all on DL metal. How would that be no competition?
Keep Delta My Delta
 
deltagator
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:21 am

Quoting MarkATL (Reply 16):
Hartsfield would be no more than a spoke airport commensurate with the size of the metro area.

Huh? We're the 8th largest metro area in the US. We should get more flights here from international carriers for one thing. Domestic traffic, who knows? Alaska may come to town but JetBlue will get hounded by DL and FL on price to protect what they have at ATL. All the other big carriers in the states come to ATL so not much there. What about WN? Clark Howard yammers on about the "Other Atlanta Airport" over in Birmingham to ride them but will they ever try Atlanta?

I hate to see SAA go but why to MIA if they are joining Star since that is OneWorld territory? Other than a few hundred miles closer to Africa it doesn't make too much sense to me.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
MAH4546
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:35 am

Quoting Globalflyer (Reply 3):
I wondered why AZ never started since they joined Skyteam.

Alitalia has a small and highly utilized long-haul fleet. It makes no sense to fly to Atlanta when Delta is already offering non-stops between Atlanta and three Italian cities. Instead, Alitalia can use their resources to fly to other non-DL hubs, like Washington Dulles and Miami.

Quoting Globalflyer (Reply 3):
Is it once a day? Wonder how that will play out seeing that DL and FL have such a huge market on that sector.

It is for Caribbean traffic, not local traffic.

Quoting Globalflyer (Reply 8):
As far as I know they have not officially stated that they would discontinue ATL but have since opened up IAD so I figure it will probably be a given!

While no timeline has been set, yes, SAA will eventually leave Atlanta. It can be as soon as this summer, or it may even be another 18 months.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 21):

I hate to see SAA go but why to MIA if they are joining Star since that is OneWorld territory? Other than a few hundred miles closer to Africa it doesn't make too much sense to me.

Miami-South Africa has over 200 daily O&D passengers and Miami is the third largest USA-Africa travel market after New York City and Washington, D.C. Their tentatively planned return to the MIA market is to cater to local demand and doesn't have anything to do with alliances or feed.
a.
 
skibum9
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:36 am

Quoting Goomba (Reply 17):
But it looks like United and Continental are going to marry and Delta and Northwest as well.

Where did you get this from?
Tailwinds!!!
 
fewsolarge
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:03 pm

Quoting MarkATL (Reply 16):
If not for an oversized Delta hub and a moderate sized AirTran hub, Hartsfield would be no more than a spoke airport commensurate with the size of the metro area.

An astute observation of the obvious, though perhaps at a larger scale than you imply.
 
deltagator
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:05 pm

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 23):
Quoting Goomba (Reply 17):
But it looks like United and Continental are going to marry and Delta and Northwest as well.

Where did you get this from?

Don't egg him on. He's just stirring up craziness.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
Miami-South Africa has over 200 daily O&D passengers and Miami is the third largest USA-Africa travel market after New York City and Washington, D.C. Their tentatively planned return to the MIA market is to cater to local demand and doesn't have anything to do with alliances or feed.

Interesting. I never realized that Miami had that much traffic to Africa.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
apodino
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:34 pm

Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Reply 12):
Never mind, I just looked it up. It's actually a CRJ-900 operated by America West Express to CLT. US Airways no longer flies ATL-PIT and operates only Express flights to CLT and PHL!

I was about to question why USAirways pulled mainline service entirely out of ATL. But then I realized that with the merger, they still have mainline service to LAS and PHX. But certainly, I think PHL-ATL is a route that should be mainline, and they are having us at ZW operate 50 seaters on the route. With an alternate, plus the normal ATL delays, there is no way I can get everyone on board that plane. I wonder why planners never look at this stuff.
 
MarkATL
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:51 pm

Quoting Fewsolarge (Reply 24):
An astute observation of the obvious, though perhaps at a larger scale than you imply.

My point is that Atlanta is served by all the major national and regional carriers. The ones that don't i.e. Southwest, JetBlue, etc. don't serve ATL as a direct result of the hub. Without the hub ATL might see 20% of the international traffic. The airport would be about the size of Boston (comparable metropolitan population) and regional center (New England and Southeast).

People seem to over romanticize the "largest airport in the world" designation. Half of the reason it became the hub that it is, is because Delta and Eastern saw its potential as a national collection point for Florida traffic. Just as EK is maximizing it's hub for its home region and as a collection point to the Indian sub-continent. This doesn't mean that Atlanta (or BAH) don't have sizeable O/D traffic. It just means that the airlines that are based at these places maximize their geographic location for success.

Yea yea yea, I know DL is in Chapter 11 and EA is Tango-Uniform but the EA hub capacity was picked up by DL and FL. If DL does assume room temperature than someone will assume the one bright spot they have...the ATL hub.

-=MarkATL=-
"...left my home in Georgia, 'n headed for the "Frisco" Bay...
 
Alitalia744
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:51 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
Alitalia has a small and highly utilized long-haul fleet. It makes no sense to fly to Atlanta when Delta is already offering non-stops between Atlanta and three Italian cities. Instead, Alitalia can use their resources to fly to other non-DL hubs, like Washington Dulles and Miami.

AZ is stretched for long-haul for now. Look for that to change soon when they place an order for 787s... Wink
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
MarkATL
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:25 pm

Quoting MarkATL (Reply 27):
This doesn't mean that Atlanta (or BAH) don't have sizeable O/D traffic

Temporary case of the stupids....I of course meant Dubai.
"...left my home in Georgia, 'n headed for the "Frisco" Bay...
 
Tuffer
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:31 pm

DL should start a ATL-YYC service and bring DL mainline service back to calgary!
 
wedgetail737
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 4:12 pm

Both Air Tran and Alaska have 737's moving through the line. I think it's just a matter of time which airline will move into the SEA-ATL market first. If one or the other starts first...the other will follow I'm sure.

Frankly, I would like Air Tran to move into the SEA market because that'll drive prices to FL down a bit. AS would provide much increased Northwest connection opportunities for people in the Southeast.

It's a push for me.

We shall see.
 
skymileman
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Fri Dec 30, 2005 4:30 pm

Delta's ability to push B6 out probably really put the damper on any plans by other airlines to try ATL
 
fewsolarge
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:25 am

Quoting MarkATL (Reply 27):
If DL does assume room temperature than someone will assume the one bright spot they have...the ATL hub.

Agreed.
 
B752OS
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:28 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
Miami-South Africa has over 200 daily O&D passengers and Miami is the third largest USA-Africa travel market after New York City and Washington, D.C. Their tentatively planned return to the MIA market is to cater to local demand and doesn't have anything to do with alliances or feed.

I don't see how those small O&D numbers will be able to support a daily flight.l You claim they are only catering to local demand and without feed that demand will not be enough. Sure the market may expand with a non-stop flight, but to make the flight work without any feed, something that makes MIA what it is, there would have to be well over 500 daily O&D passengers to fill the seats.
 
misbeehavin
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:38 am

Quoting B752OS (Reply 34):
I don't see how those small O&D numbers will be able to support a daily flight.l You claim they are only catering to local demand and without feed that demand will not be enough. Sure the market may expand with a non-stop flight, but to make the flight work without any feed, something that makes MIA what it is, there would have to be well over 500 daily O&D passengers to fill the seats.

Not quite 500, but 2-- is hardly enough.

And it's not like they're gonna get any feed from their Star partners at MIA either. How many flights do AC + SA)">UA + US have to MIA anyway? Can't be more than a handful anymore. And you can't count flights from DC, NYC, Philly etc because SA already serves those markets on its own.
 
globalflyer
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Sat Dec 31, 2005 6:15 am

Cool. thanks for the posts. Sounds like from our AS friends on A.Net that Alaska Airlines may be the best possibility to land in ATL in the near future. The Eskimo would be a proud and welcome addition. I have always enjoyed their fine onboard service!
Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
 
MAH4546
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Sat Dec 31, 2005 8:11 am

Quoting B752OS (Reply 34):

I don't see how those small O&D numbers will be able to support a daily flight.

SAA plans to offer three weekly flights to MIA on A340s. Combined with SAA's strong interline agreements which will create connections regardless of alliances, connecting possibilities to other points in Africa via JNB/CPT, the natural boost to O&D created with a non-stop, and heavy cargo traffic, the market is more than substainable. In addition, the US-Africa market in general is very high yielding, so high load factors aren't nessecary to pull a strong profit. Though as a consequence of limited service, most US-Africa services see excellent load factors.

We'll see what happens. SAA hasn't said anything about MIA or their Delta relationship since they initially announced their intention to return to MIA back in July. They have been quiet about their future plans for the US market, other than saying they plan on making changes.

Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 35):
And you can't count flights from DC, NYC, Philly etc because SA already serves those markets on its own.

SA does not fly to Philadelphia. In the US they fly to Dulles, JFK, and Atlanta.

[Edited 2005-12-31 00:13:56]
a.
 
EddieDude
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:23 am

Quoting Ucunnn (Reply 19):
Maybe ATL-CUN or ATL-BJX would be a nice choice for MX.

It is true that some unconfirmed rumors about MX flying to ATL have surfaced in the past, but the truth is that it seems highly unlikely. MX is thinking of other new destinations in the U.S. like PHL, CLT and these seem more likely. In addition, AM and DL would surely make MX regret the decision to fly to ATL from day one.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
Alitalia has a small and highly utilized long-haul fleet. It makes no sense to fly to Atlanta when Delta is already offering non-stops between Atlanta and three Italian cities.

I agree. It would be really cool to see AZ flying to ATL given the connection opportunities, but at the moment, with its limited long-haul fleet and DL's current service to Italy, ATL just does not seem as a possible new destination.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
srbmod
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:07 am

Quoting Skymileman (Reply 32):
Delta's ability to push B6 out probably really put the damper on any plans by other airlines to try ATL

The FL and DL vs. B6 thing didn't stop too many carriers from entering the market. Look at Independence Air. They originally planned to pretty much run a ATL-IAD shuttle, having a flight every hour. They came close to this early on, but eventually started getting crushed by the incumbents on the ATL-IAD route (DL, FL, United Express), and cut back on services. Spirit isn't going directly after FL and DL, so they may actually have some success.

The reality is that any future airlines to serve ATL will probably be non-US carriers. Some of the charter airlines do serve ATL, some of them on a seasonal basis like USA 3000; but more and more of the vacation packages being offered out of ATL include a flight on a regular carrier (DL, AM, JM, FL, AA...).
 
ucunnn
Posts: 61
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Sun Jan 01, 2006 4:47 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 38):
AM and DL would surely make MX regret the decision to fly to ATL from day one.

But Eddie, that sound slike if MX would make regret AM or anyother mexican carrier for flying into ORD, Bay Area, or even MIA. MIA useed to be a MX hugh destination in the old times...

By the way guys HAPPY 2006!
 
EddieDude
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RE: ATL - Any New Carriers On The Horizon

Sun Jan 01, 2006 5:07 am

The reason why AM quit ORD in 2003 or 2004 was precisely that it could not compete with MX (the market leader between Mexico and ORD) and ORD's dominating carriers UA and AA. I hope AM will do great this time around (the 73W's should be more economical than the Mad Dogs) but I would not judge MX if they make it tough on AM. After all, one has to protect its turf. So I am sure that if MX attempts to enter the Mexico-ATL market, it will be a slaughter.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738

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