quickmover
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Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:38 am

Just looking at a few similarities

DEN: 1 legacy in bankruptcy -UAL
ATL: 1 legacy in bankruptcy -DAL

DEN: 1 strong incumbent LCC -Frontier
ATL: 1 strong incumbent LCC -Airtran

DEN: huge market
ATL: huge market

DEN: "There is no way we will fly to DEN"
ATL: "There is no way we will fly to ATL"

DEN: no gates available?
ATL: no gates available?

Just my opinion, but if DEN is a success for WN, look for them to move into ATL. Lots of cities alot closer to each other with big potential.
 
S5FA170
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:41 am

I think their is a big difference between Frontier and AirTran in terms of the scope of their operation at DEN vs. ATL and the way they would/could compete with Southwest in each market. AirTran is many times bigger in ATL and on the east coast, in general, than Frontier is in Denver and in any specific region of the country. I'm not saying it won't happen, but I don't think the comparisons given above are as cut and try as you make them out to be! While similair in many respects, FL and F9 are also very different airlines.

-Tony
Prepare doors for departure and cross-check.
 
deltagator
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:44 am

Doubtful but who knows. I don't know where WN would get gates since DL will snatch up anything it can get. DL and AT will protect their hub as much as possible. Even if WN does get in there wouldn't be a huge amount of ability to grow due to gate space. If you want to save money by flying WN just drive to Birmingham and spend the money you saved on your ticket in gas to get there and back home.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
quickmover
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:45 am

That's a good point, but after they started PHL, nothing surprises me any more. One statement that WN made when they announced DEN was that not having DEN left a big gap in their system. The same could be said about ATL. (With the exception of maybe driving to BHM).
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:59 am

Southwest will never fly to ATL. They don't want to deal with the congestion. That's why they pulled out of SFO and ATL is worse.

It's possible that they at some point will send in ATA, though ....
- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
 
quickmover
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:09 am

"Southwest will never fly to ATL. They don't want to deal with the congestion. That's why they pulled out of SFO and ATL is worse."


I would say that the congestion in PHL can be as bad as anywhere and it didn't stop WN from starting service. I believe that ATL has another runway opening soon that should help on the congestion.

As far as gates go, it seems just about any city will do whatever it takes to make room for WN (temporary gates, international terminals, moving around other carriers, etc....).
 
isitsafenow
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:51 am

The was a book published about Delta airlines in the early 90's. The title escapes me and its at the condo in Naples. One thing the author dwelled on was Southwest not coming to ATL due to congestion.
ATL will have another runway in a year or so. Perhaps the current congestion will be alleviated when that happens and if so, watch for Southwest to perhaps, make a move.
The book did say that Southwest had a luke-warm interest in Fulton County Airport. But remember, that was 10 to 15 years ago.
Things can and have changed....like Delta now in chapter 11, which was unheard of back in that timeframe.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:01 am

Southwest could use the new South Passenger Complex if built.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
quickmover
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:06 am

Does Delta use all of their ATL gates now? After they decided to drop 2/3s of their MCO gates, you have to wonder if some trimming might be in store for ATL as part of the reorginization plan. I'm sure FL is in line for more if they become available.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:10 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 5):
I would say that the congestion in PHL can be as bad as anywhere and it didn't stop WN from starting service.

Do keep in mind that at the time WN first started service at PHL, US was still in its 2nd Chapter 11 filing in 5 years and was on the verge of Chapter 7; that is until the recent HP merger.

Not sure about DL's current state of affairs, but I believe US' (whose PHL hub is smaller than DL's ATL hub IIRC) state of affairs in 2004-2005 (pre-merger) was still worse than DL's. I could be wrong.

[Edited 2006-01-03 20:12:25]
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
deltagator
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:13 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 7):
Southwest could use the new South Passenger Complex if built.

It's on hold right now with no good timeline on being built from things I have heard and read. Same goes for the new international terminal I believe but those in the know may be able to set me straight.

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 8):
Does Delta use all of their ATL gates now?

Yes. One way or the other they use all their gates. Perhaps not to the best level but they use them.

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 8):
After they decided to drop 2/3s of their MCO gates, you have to wonder if some trimming might be in store for ATL as part of the reorginization plan.

There is a world of difference between MCO and ATL.

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 5):
I would say that the congestion in PHL can be as bad as anywhere and it didn't stop WN from starting service.

PHL is a fair bit smaller than ATL and our backups can be 20 planes deep and sometimes more.

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 5):
As far as gates go, it seems just about any city will do whatever it takes to make room for WN (temporary gates, international terminals, moving around other carriers, etc....).

Perhaps but the city is also tied into DL and FL quite tightly now. WN will not be a huge player right off the bat if they even come to ATL. The city won't be giving away the kitchen sink to get them to come here.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:23 am

ATL will have another runway in a year or so. Perhaps the current congestion will be alleviated when that happens and if so, watch for Southwest to perhaps, make a move.

There are some interesting points in this thread, especially this one. I still think Southwest is unlikely to enter ATL. But given the items Quickmover and Safe pointed out (and I'd note Kelly's aggressive boldness too) it doesn't sound completely out of the question any more.

Actually, Quickmover, that's another similarity: DEN: increased runway capacity in the market; ATL: increased runway capacity in the market.

1337--I'd bet Southwest wouldn't be interested in a new terminal; they'd probably want the lowest fees possible at the airport. AirTran, however, with their more explicitly business-oriented product, and the prospect of getting hub operations out of their current situation so far from landside, probably would be interested.

With AirTran in a new terminal, suddenly Concourse C would have lots of room. Unless DL has the City of Atlanta *completely* whipped, WN could probably get hold of some of those gates.

Interesting possibilities. ATL experts would need to give more info, though.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
N200WN
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:29 am

Southwest will NEVER fly to ATL!

There are NO gates available for them!
No one will fly WN when DL has nonstops to every city on the planet!
AirTran has a better "product."
It's just too congested there!
My God, they don't even assign seats!
The fares are already low enough.
Only white trash fly Southwest.
No clubs! No interlining! No FF miles to Budapest!
Their planes are just too ugly.
They oversell all their flights and then misconnect those that are lucky enough to get a seat.
They don't fly to real airports. Who wants to go to AMA?
The TV show "Airline." Need I say more?
They're just like Wal-Mart! Low wages, non-union, and are responsible for the losses at every legacy airline and thousands of job losses industry wide.
They bully airports and cities into doing things they don't want to do and just shouldn't serve your city.

Have I missed anything??

[Edited 2006-01-03 20:52:17]

[Edited 2006-01-03 20:52:49]
 
ssides
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:38 am

Remember that UA at DEN is nothing compared to DL at ATL or AA at DFW.

UA only has 57% of DEN's traffic, while DL and AA have around 75% or 80% at ATL and DFW, respectively. May not sound like much, but it's a big difference.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
travatl
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:44 am

Quoting N200WN (Reply 12):
Southwest will NEVER fly to ATL!

There are NO gates available for them!
No one will fly WN when DL has nonstops to every city on the planet!
AirTran has a better "product."
It's just too congested there!
My God, they don't even assign seats!
The fares are already low enough.
Only white trash fly Southwest.
No clubs! No interlining! No FF miles to Budapest!
Their planes are just too ugly.
They oversell all their flights and then misconnect those that are lucky enough to get a seat.
They don't fly to real airports. Who wants to go to AMA?
The TV show "Airline." Need I say more?
There just like Wal-Mart! Low wages, non-union, and are responsible for the losses at every legacy airline and thousands of job losses industry wide.
The bully airports and cities into doing things they don't want to do and just shouldn't serve your city.

Have I missed anything??

LOL - excellent retort. Love the cynicism and sarcasm... it's so true - and I'm an AirTran guy.

Come on down to ATL - we'll make room. LCCs unite!

Travis
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:49 am

Quoting Travatl (Reply 14):
LOL - excellent retort. Love the cynicism and sarcasm... it's so true - and I'm an AirTran guy.

Come on down to ATL - we'll make room. LCCs unite!

Be careful what you wish for... you might get it.  wink 
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
2travel2know
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:51 am

Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 4):
Southwest will never fly to ATL. They don't want to deal with the congestion. That's why they pulled out of SFO and ATL is worse.

They could fly to Birmigham, Alabama BHM and advertize it as "Metro Atlanta Area" just like they do with ISP for New York City and PVD/MHT for Boston.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
deltagator
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:57 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 16):
They could fly to Birmigham, Alabama BHM and advertize it as "Metro Atlanta Area" just like they do with ISP for New York City and PVD/MHT for Boston.

You're almost right. I know folks that commute from Anniston, AL into the city everyday. Personally I think they are morons but it shows the ridiculous reach this damn city has now. IIRC Chattanooga and Atlanta are considered together for the US government's statistical calculations. As Clark Howard says...BHM is Atlanta's other airport.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
luvfa
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:59 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 16):
They could fly to Birmigham, Alabama BHM and advertize it as "Metro Atlanta Area" just like they do with ISP for New York City and PVD/MHT for Boston.

That may have been our MO prior to 9-11, but if you look at the airports added since 2002, they are primary not secondary airports!
 
luvfa
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:05 am

After the cities we've added in the past 2 years, PHL, DEN and PIT I learned never say never! Truth is we are adding 34 A/C and with the added gates in PHL, PIT, RSW and DEN, I honesly don't see how we can enter ATL this year and provide all the frequency we like!
 
alphascan
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:25 am

Quoting N200WN (Reply 12):
Have I missed anything??

Here's a few more:

They have narrow seats!

Need a seat belt extender? Ding! You just bought another seat!

Their turnaround times force pilots into dangerous landing procedures!

And the most recent reason not to fly Southwest:

Watch out for that light pole!
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
deltagator
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:37 am

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 6):
The book did say that Southwest had a luke-warm interest in Fulton County Airport.

Are you talking about Charlie Brown over by Fulton Industrial Blvd.? Seems a bit small and not in a very safe part of town to me.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
luvfa
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:38 am

Quoting Alphascan (Reply 20):
Need a seat belt extender? Ding! You just bought another seat!

Their turnaround times force pilots into dangerous landing procedures!

No people only have to buy the second seat when when they protrude beyond the armrest on SWA or any one else! ( see my post above).

As far as your second point, it is so ridiculous I won't even dignify it with a response!

As a consumer you are free to fly whoever you wish!
 
Evan767
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:56 am

Quoting N200WN (Reply 12):

Here Here!
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
alphascan
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:14 am

Luvfa;

If I hit a sore spot, I apologize. Try reading it in the spirit it was intended. Same as N200WN's.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:19 am

Bold added:

Quoting Alphascan (Reply 24):
Try reading it in the spirit it was intended.

What? Now Spirit's coming to ATL?  duck 

Sorry, but somebody had to do it. Silly
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
srbmod
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:21 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 21):
Are you talking about Charlie Brown over by Fulton Industrial Blvd.? Seems a bit small and not in a very safe part of town to me.

That's the one. WN was not the only airline to express interest in using FTY for scheduled service. A short-lived start up in the late 1980s called Air Bus had planned to operate out of FTY, but the NIMBYs really got that idea shpt down, much like WN's interest there as well.

The longest runway @ FTY is 5786' X 100', which is longer than the runway @ SNA, which handles a/c like the 752. Other than the width, FTY could easily handle 737s on their longest runway.
 
N200WN
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:21 am

Quoting Alphascan (Reply 24):
Luvfa;

If I hit a sore spot, I apologize. Try reading it in the spirit it was intended. Same as N200WN's.

I thought it was funny and in the spirit intended.  Smile
 
474218
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:22 am

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 6):
The book did say that Southwest had a luke-warm interest in Fulton County Airport. But remember, that was 10 to 15 years ago.

Hartsfield-Jackson Airport (ATL) is in Clayton County and it was 10 of 15 years ago.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 21):
Are you talking about Charlie Brown over by Fulton Industrial Blvd.? Seems a bit small and not in a very safe part of town to me.

Charlie Brown Field, also known as Fulton County Airport, gets a lot of Biz Jets, but I don't think it has many gates, or even a terminal. Question, is there a safe part of Atlanta?
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:23 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 26):
1980s called Air Bus

Isn't that infringment on a trademark?
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
YANQUI67
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:40 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 28):
Charlie Brown Field, also known as Fulton County Airport, gets a lot of Biz Jets, but I don't think it has many gates, or even a terminal. Question, is there a safe part of Atlanta

LOL!! I work at Charlie Brown and on Fulton Industrial you can get whateeever you want. The hookers and crack hoes walk up and down the street all day and night. The motels are all by the hour. The drug dealers and pimps are everywhere. Then there are homeless living under the I-20 overpass. It is a seriuosly embarassing area in Atlanta. Me and my work with got pulled over by the cops for not wearing our seat belts,we were on a quick McDs run, and you look one block away from us there are pimps and hookers flashing their wares to costumers. I dont think the cops give a crap, so everything goes.
Yanqui
 
SunValley
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:46 am

Quoting N200WN (Reply 12):
No one will fly WN when DL has nonstops to every city on the planet!

Remember in cities like HOU, PHX, LAS, ONT, MDW etc etc WN is stronger than DL and has a loyal following. While DL may be the "chosen" in ATL, they are diluted at the end city (or beginning city if you prefer).

I would be careful in making such a statement.
 
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antoniemey
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:09 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 17):
You're almost right. I know folks that commute from Anniston, AL into the city everyday. Personally I think they are morons but it shows the ridiculous reach this damn city has now. IIRC Chattanooga and Atlanta are considered together for the US government's statistical calculations. As Clark Howard says...BHM is Atlanta's other airport.

THere's a thought... WN could fly to Chattanooga. Admittedly, I don't know the terminal space situation in Chattanooga, but, it IS fairly close to ATL.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:18 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 26):


A short-lived start up in the late 1980s called Air Bus

I seem to recall it being called SkyBus, but I could be wrong.
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
bhmbaglock
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:23 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 16):
They could fly to Birmigham, Alabama BHM

They do

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 16):
and advertize it as "Metro Atlanta Area" just like they do with ISP for New York City and PVD/MHT for Boston.

They don't because there's no need, people from Atlanta come all on their own. Of course it's not uncommon for them to grab DL instead of WN and fly straight back to ATL. Isn't that wonderful, drive 2 1/2 hours to fly directly back to save money.
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
cloudy
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:55 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 26):
The longest runway @ FTY is 5786' X 100', which is longer than the runway @ SNA, which handles a/c like the 752. Other than the width, FTY could easily handle 737s on their longest runway.

I believe this is short enough to cause weight restrictions on many longhaul flights.
That would be a problem now since many potential destinations are on the West coast.
 
MarkATL
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:21 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 26):
but the NIMBYs really got that idea shpt down, much like WN's interest there as well.

Whoa!! Wait just a minute....I have to catch my breath....Sorry, just a second....laughing too hard....oh man, I just shot coke out my nose!!! Did you say NIMBYs? In that absolute sh*t hole of a "neighborhood"? I wouldn't even compare it to Beirut, after all Beirut has rebuilt itself into the gem it once was. Hell, most demilitarized zones are nicer than that area. So just who is it that would rather have crack hoes and bums than commercial air service? That neighborhood makes places like Gary, Camden, East St Louis and Patterson all look like Beverly Hills.......NIMBYs, now that's the funniest thing I ever heard.

-=MarkATL=-



[Edited 2006-01-04 00:32:42]
"...left my home in Georgia, 'n headed for the "Frisco" Bay...
 
lesmainwaring
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:36 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 26):
That's the one. WN was not the only airline to express interest in using FTY for scheduled service. A short-lived start up in the late 1980s called Air Bus had planned to operate out of FTY, but the NIMBYs really got that idea shpt down, much like WN's interest there as well

if i remember correctly, the city was pretty down on using FTY for commercial use too, at least at that time ... wasn't Air Bus going to be part of the old frontier?

i remember after elvis died, his CV-880, the lisa marie, made a stop at FTY and opened for tours ... i was 12 years old at the time, it was cool to be on that plane and see it take off

for those in ATL (i grew up there, live in ORF/PHF now) there was commercial service briefly at PDK in the early 1980s --- Phoenix Airlines used dehavilland DH-140 doves to savannah and brunswick, ga.

...

never say never, but i wouldn't think ATL would be on WN's list anytime in the near future ... maybe once the new south terminal is built

(BTW, we luv there here at ORF and FL at PHF)
I want something under my wheels thats plenty long and mighty dry --- Vern Demarest
 
Tornado82
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:38 am

Quoting Luvfa (Reply 19):
After the cities we've added in the past 2 years, PHL, DEN and PIT I learned never say never!

But do any of those cities have convenient secondary airports like Chicago, Dallas, and Houston? PIT's best bets would be LBE and for a real stretch MGW, but there are no decent roads to get to LBE, and MGW's runway is too short. AGC could be considered for its proximity, but I doubt Allegheny would have even let commercial service go back there, period. Not to mention there is already WAY too much traffic up there in West Mifflin, and probably some Nimby's would freak.

PHL's alternate would have to be considered Allentown, but that drive is a bitch. I just did it yesterday, and cringe any time I have to go to Filthadelphia. (Yeah... come on you-know-who, make a totally pointless post that says I mentioned Philly negatively but adds nothing else to the thread.) I-476 from Philly to the Lehigh Valley is congested at many times of day, and US-22 which would take you from 476 to ABE is a VERY congested road as well. The gates and infrastructure were definitely ready and waiting, and the runway is longer than that at many airports Southwest already operates from. Other ideas for Philly could have been TTN or some other Jersey locales, but there aren't enough commercial air-service infrastructures there... and ACY is pretty far out for some of the "nice" areas of Philadelphia. Places like Radnor, Villanova, Swarthmore could get to ABE more conveniently since they're already halfway up to Mid-County on the Blue Route than some of those Jersey airports... assuming some of those people would "stoop" to flying Southwest to begin with. Also some of those out-of-PA alternatives to PHL have runway issues.

DEN also has no convenient alternates...they're pretty far away from the core of the city... and that's not the kind of territory you want to be cruising around in the winter to go find a flight. Especially say Ft. Collins to COS.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 33):

I seem to recall it being called SkyBus, but I could be wrong.

You're not wrong.
 
airfrnt
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:38 am

Quoting Quickmover (Thread starter):
Just my opinion, but if DEN is a success for WN, look for them to move into ATL. Lots of cities alot closer to each other with big potential.

There are a couple of reasons why these are very different markets. DEN is situated as close to the middle of the nation as any airport. That gives them huge demographic and geographic advantages which is really important to a carrier like southwest which may want to route traffic thru DEN from many arbitrary city pairs. ATL is not a good mid point for national traffic.

ATL is, on the other had, a much bigger O&D market then DEN is. That alone makes the market attractive.

Quoting S5FA170 (Reply 1):
I think their is a big difference between Frontier and AirTran in terms of the scope of their operation at DEN vs. ATL and the way they would/could compete with Southwest in each market. AirTran is many times bigger in ATL and on the east coast, in general, than Frontier is in Denver and in any specific region of the country. I'm not saying it won't happen, but I don't think the comparisons given above are as cut and try as you make them out to be! While similair in many respects, FL and F9 are also very different airlines.

DEN's location allows them to cherry pick traffic and destinations. Someone wanted to travel from Seattle to New York for cheap would probably not object too much for a layover at DEN but might not want the longer trip time of a layover in ATL.

Outside of that, F9 and FL are both solid airlines that enjoy good reputations in their home cities and are able to fight off a large legacy carrier.

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 8):
Does Delta use all of their ATL gates now? After they decided to drop 2/3s of their MCO gates, you have to wonder if some trimming might be in store for ATL as part of the reorginization plan. I'm sure FL is in line for more if they become available.

The opposite is happening. ATL is trying to "mega-hub" ATL. The traffic volumes that they are putting thru Atlanta is amazing, and it pretty much has rendered all of their other hubs as secondary locations. I still think that this is a gutsy and in the end dangerous move for DL. ATL's weather sucks a good portion of the year, the airport is stupidly overcrowded, the taxi times are horrific if you land on either of the outlying runways and you have to wait for outgoing traffic and FL has efficently been stealing DL's best routes.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5126
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:39 am

Quoting N200WN (Reply 12):
non-union

Uh...they're a UNION airline.

The mechanics, for example, are Teamsters.

The flight attendants are members of Transport Workers Union of America, AFL-CIO, Local 556. The TWU: The friendly people that brought you the New York City Transit Strike.

Yeah. Really "non-union" alright. It's about as accurate as claiming that UPS is non-union.

I enjoyed the amusing post, but God it drives me crazy to hear people say that WN is non-union.



[Edited 2006-01-04 00:44:50]
 
N200WN
Posts: 694
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:25 am

Quoting SunValley (Reply 31):
Quoting N200WN (Reply 12):
No one will fly WN when DL has nonstops to every city on the planet!

Remember in cities like HOU, PHX, LAS, ONT, MDW etc etc WN is stronger than DL and has a loyal following. While DL may be the "chosen" in ATL, they are diluted at the end city (or beginning city if you prefer).

I would be careful in making such a statement.

Ok..in the future I'll be more careful, as I wouldn't want to put myself in any danger you know.

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 40):
Quoting N200WN (Reply 12):
non-union

Uh...they're a UNION airline.

Uh...I know that, I work for Southwest and I'm vaguely familiar with there being some type of union activity on the property.

Funny that my original post (#12) seems to have gone over the head of so many. At least Travatl and Alphascan got it, lol.
 
Tornado82
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Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:41 am

Quoting N200WN (Reply 41):

Funny that my original post (#12) seems to have gone over the head of so many. At least Travatl and Alphascan got it, lol.

Aw man, you should know by now that satire and sarcasm is unrealized by the masses on A.net by now bud.  Smile This is the same forum that got up in arms about the Budweister "Mr. Discount Airline Pilot Guy" ads.

Just yesterday I got the crap flamed out of me, for saying "Ew, a CRJ" on the Tech/Ops thread about Biz Jets, when someone mentioned a Challenger 604. If I had $25million for a Biz Jet would it be my first purchase? No. Do I realize it's a hell of alot more roomy and appointed than a CRJ-200 on Comair or someone? Of course. Did all the flamers realize that I was being sarcastic? Hell no.
 
User avatar
chrisnh
Posts: 3331
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:01 am

How much of a fight can Delta put up against Southwest? Sure, they can 'hog' gates...calling gates theirs but hardly using them. But what else can a nearly mortally-wounded legacy carrier like Delta do to thwart Southwest? The answer, in my view, is 'not much.' Or else, why has Southwest--the carrier that supposedly focuses on smaller airports--been steadily marching into big cities like Philadelphia and Denver?? If they didn't think they could battle the so-called 'big boys' on their own turf, they'd have stayed away from both cities. But, there they are.

Chris in NH
 
airfrnt
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:09 am

The funny thing is, the "fortress model" works great when defending a city against another hubbing carrier. But what WN seems to have figured out is that Fortress Hubs make good business for them (if they can get gate space) simply because the fares in the market are out of line with norms everywhere else.

I boldy predict that WN will go to MSP next!
 
ckfred
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RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:10 am

Remember that some of the delays at PHL are caused by congestion, since the Northeast has the most congested airspace in the country.

On the other hand, much of ATL's delays are caused by weather, including fog, thunderstorms, and ice storms.

WN can try to schedule around periods of congestion, buy it can't schedule around the weather. That's why WN left SFO.

Yes, ATL will have a fifth runway in '06, but it's still the busiest airport in the world, and it often has 10, 20, or even more lined up for takeoff. I've flown out of ATL to ORD enough times to know that AA, UA, and DL pad the schedules because of delays and half the time, ORD departures sit on a hold pad waiting for a slot. Coming into ATL on a clear day, planes out of ORD start zig-zaging over Nashville during the afternoon rush. That would drive WN crazy on flights to and from MDW.

The other problem for WN would be the fact that DL now tows its 777s, 767s, and even some 757s out to the departure runways, and those tugs don't move as fast as an aircraft taxiing under its own power. That would not let WN pilots make up for lost time by doing high speed taxiing.
 
deltadude
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:53 pm

RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:33 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 28):

Hartsfield-Jackson Airport (ATL) is in Clayton County and it was 10 of 15 years ago.

actually it's 2/3 in Clayton, 1/3 in Fulton. that's all I got  Wink
 
wjcandee
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Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:50 am

Quoting N200WN (Reply 41):
Uh...I know that, I work for Southwest and I'm vaguely familiar with there being some type of union activity on the property.

So now the comedian is ragging the audience for not getting the joke? I complimented you on the rest of the post, but I assure you that there was no way that anybody could tell that that little nugget was ironic. How about we set "Smug" to "Off"?
 
Tornado82
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Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:09 am

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 47):
but I assure you that there was no way that anybody could tell that that little nugget was ironic.

I did.
 
kubus
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2005 12:49 pm

RE: Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:24 am

If I had to bet on WN next city it would be CLT. They are going after the US, and CLT is the one left. Yeah I know LGA is still there but NYC market is already saturated.