Worldliner
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Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:21 am

i was scanning some old magazines and i came across this interesting article. it said that jet blue were the biggest operator out of jfk for 04 and 05. is this a great achievement? or does is show a demise of american carriers? i no that jet blue is mainly based there but i thought american, united and delta could beat them. certainly delta with song combined? wat do you think?


worldliner
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TK787
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:46 am

Quoting Worldliner (Thread starter):
certainly delta with song combined? wat do you think?

Well, Song has a few more months left, they are history. But as you can see, they couldn't compete with the blue. I just flew song last week and I love them, seriously the best service you get on economy. Where do they find those FA's?
 
jetblueatjfk
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:14 am

Quoting TK787 (Reply 1):
Where do they find those FA's?

DL mainline, and a lot of the time they have the senior FA's or newer ones that go straight to Song.

But B6 has hurt other carriers in many markets and may be part of the reason some of the bigger carriers went into Ch11 since they made all the fares lower on NY-Florida which was the legacy's old true money maker. So I say they are bad for the larger carriers.

 airplane jetBlueAtJFK airplane 
 
Evan767
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:59 am

JetBlue is horrible. It is like they want to put all the carriers out of business as well as many people on the streets. I just cannot stand how they can attack the legacies. They are one of the main reasons some of us are in Chapt. 11.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
hz747300
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:57 am

Quoting TK787 (Reply 1):
Where do they find those FA's?

Just please make them stop saying, "jetWho?" jetBlue is much metter inflight with IFE they need to learn to bite the big one on this.

UA has shrunk to almost no presence at JFK.

AA's expansion has been rather slow since jetBlue, I think it even contracted some as PHX-JFK was dropped.

DL is mostly international at JFK and Song is nowhere near the size of jetBlue at JFK or anywhere.

Living in NY from 2000 to 2005, it is not surprising that jetBlue is the largest carrier at JFK. No other airline had domestic operations based there in any real sense and it is America's massive domestic market that makes us the largest flying public going. Mix that with NYC population and it is perfect sense. Remember, the only option previously if you wanted to fly direct was CO out of EWR before the airtrain, which sucked.
Keep on truckin'...
 
TACAA320
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:01 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 3):
They are one of the main reasons some of us are in Chapt. 11.

"Some of us"? You're only 15 or less. Come on, blaming others for what happened to DL [not to you] is so easy. Grow up.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
mNeo
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:15 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 3):
posted Tue Jan 3 2006 21:59:13 UTC+1 and read 57 times:

JetBlue is horrible. It is like they want to put all the carriers out of business as well as many people on the streets. I just cannot stand how they can attack the legacies. They are one of the main reasons some of us are in Chapt. 11.

Because B6 offers a good product at cheap prices its their fault that poorly run Airlines are under bancrupcy. Im sorry but when Delta can get their act together and figure out whats causing them to loose money on routes where B6(or other managed airlines) can make money, then they can comaplin that B6 wants them out of buisness. Until now they have been doing that to themselves
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RAMPRAT980
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:16 am

I feel that B6 would hurt amtrak more than the legacy carriers
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Evan767
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:23 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 5):
"Some of us"? You're only 15 or less. Come on, blaming others for what happened to DL [not to you] is so easy. Grow up.

Uhh, what I said was true. JetBlue took a handful of DL customers and kept them.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
TACAA320
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:27 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 8):
JetBlue took a handful of DL customers and kept them.

Did B6 forced them or not?
How many customers?
Enough customers to take DL to chapter 11?
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
richierich
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:31 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 3):
JetBlue is horrible. It is like they want to put all the carriers out of business as well as many people on the streets. I just cannot stand how they can attack the legacies. They are one of the main reasons some of us are in Chapt. 11.

Sounds like somebody had the day off from grade school today....

Fortunately replying to such ignorant bull is too easy. Your statement speaks volumes about yourself.
None shall pass!!!!
 
TACAA320
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:35 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 3):
JetBlue is horrible.

How many times did you fly B6?
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
hz747300
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:40 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 8):
Uhh, what I said was true. JetBlue took a handful of DL customers and kept them.

Against their will? Seriously, if DL wanted to, they could win them back. DL cannot compete with what jetBlue is able to offer in IFE and leather seats. If IFE and leather seats are not important to you then you can fly DL.

jetBlue, nor DL, forces anyone to fly them.
Keep on truckin'...
 
EridanMan
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:29 am

All I can say is I live in Cali(OAK), and Fly regularly to East Coast (JFK/IAD) and Chicago (ORD),

Whenever I fly cross country, I fly B9, as I have done now for going on 4 years (started on the JFK/ROC leg right after they started up)- and I can say, not once in 4 years of flying has B9 left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Of course all the flights haven't been perfect, but when things went wrong (even at my obvious fault, like blatantly missing a flight) they have been extrodinarily pleasant and easy to make other arrangements with.

My flights to Chicago are ALWAYS a different story... Just a week ago I spent a night in LAS thanks to HP's incompitence... DL made my life miserable on a flight down to Miami last year (lost baggage, maintenence problems in Atlanta, etc). AA infuriated me a year and a half ago when they forced me pay 300 dollars to "UPGRADE" my round-trip OAK->ORD flight to a one-way ORD->OAK return flight so that I could make the trip OAK->IAD->ORD->OAK to see my dying grandfather one last time (The ticket agents there were especially insulting, telling me 'well sir, I'm sorry you don't understand how the airline industry works' when I was exhasperated that half the service would cost me 70% more... upon concluding my conversation, I couldn't help but quip ("I'm sorry, My bad- I'm just too used to dealing with decent airlines, I'll make sure I never bother with you cr@p in the future, have a nice day")... It has come to the point where if I ever find myself flying to a location that B9 doesn't support, I automatically expect to have an anyerism-inducing experience (with the only exception of SW, who are quickly becoming my backup carrier of choice)...

So is B9 giving the legacy carriers hell? I sure hope so... These companies are broken- they gave up on any sembelence of customer service years ago, and consumers had no choice but to bend over because there simply weren't any alternatives... now there are, and the legacies either have to shape up or fold-up...

And so far they seem to be pretty bad at doing the former- and these Chap11 announcements are certainly not causing me any tears...

-*frustrated flier*
 
bigdrewfl
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:38 am

Quoting EridanMan (Reply 13):
All I can say is I live in Cali(OAK), and Fly regularly to East Coast (JFK/IAD) and Chicago (ORD),

Whenever I fly cross country, I fly B9, as I have done now for going on 4 years (started on the JFK/ROC leg right after they started up)- and I can say, not once in 4 years of flying has B9 left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Of course all the flights haven't been perfect, but when things went wrong (even at my obvious fault, like blatantly missing a flight) they have been extrodinarily pleasant and easy to make other arrangements with.

My flights to Chicago are ALWAYS a different story... Just a week ago I spent a night in LAS thanks to HP's incompitence... DL made my life miserable on a flight down to Miami last year (lost baggage, maintenence problems in Atlanta, etc). AA infuriated me a year and a half ago when they forced me pay 300 dollars to "UPGRADE" my round-trip OAK->ORD flight to a one-way ORD->OAK return flight so that I could make the trip OAK->IAD->ORD->OAK to see my dying grandfather one last time (The ticket agents there were especially insulting, telling me 'well sir, I'm sorry you don't understand how the airline industry works' when I was exhasperated that half the service would cost me 70% more... upon concluding my conversation, I couldn't help but quip ("I'm sorry, My bad- I'm just too used to dealing with decent airlines, I'll make sure I never bother with you cr@p in the future, have a nice day")... It has come to the point where if I ever find myself flying to a location that B9 doesn't support, I automatically expect to have an anyerism-inducing experience (with the only exception of SW, who are quickly becoming my backup carrier of choice)...

So is B9 giving the legacy carriers hell? I sure hope so... These companies are broken- they gave up on any sembelence of customer service years ago, and consumers had no choice but to bend over because there simply weren't any alternatives... now there are, and the legacies either have to shape up or fold-up...

And so far they seem to be pretty bad at doing the former- and these Chap11 announcements are certainly not causing me any tears...

By saying B9 you do mean B6 right?

[Edited 2006-01-04 01:46:16]
 
EridanMan
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:41 am

Quote:

By say B9 you do mean B6 right?

Yes,

Brain fart, mea-culpa, all those good things Wink
 
bigdrewfl
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:45 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 3):
JetBlue is horrible

You are entitled to your own opinions, but dont blame Jetblue for the way your airline is doing, blame yourself....you treat your people nice and your people will come right back to you.
 
EridanMan
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:55 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 9):
Uhh, what I said was true. JetBlue took a handful of DL customers and kept them.

Trollfood, I know, but-

jetBlue didn't 'take' anyone - DL's customers were smart enough to realize they didn't have to put up with DL garbage and switched, willingly, to an airline that does a better job for less cost.

Capitalism at its best... but you'll learn about that in AP Macro-Econ in a few years Wink
 
n844aa
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:00 am

Quoting EridanMan (Reply 13):
AA infuriated me a year and a half ago when they forced me pay 300 dollars to "UPGRADE" my round-trip OAK->ORD flight to a one-way ORD->OAK return flight so that I could make the trip OAK->IAD->ORD->OAK to see my dying grandfather one last time (The ticket agents there were especially insulting, telling me 'well sir, I'm sorry you don't understand how the airline industry works' when I was exhasperated that half the service would cost me 70% more... upon concluding my conversation, I couldn't help but quip ("I'm sorry, My bad- I'm just too used to dealing with decent airlines, I'll make sure I never bother with you cr@p in the future, have a nice day")

As an interesting side note, Bob Crandall vehemently disagreed with the very premise of bereavement fares. So he definitely would have sided with the agent on that one.

Still, arguably the agent was correct, at least with respect to the legacy carriers. Their revenue is based on the idea that travelers will pay relatively higher prices for last-minute travel, or relatively lower prices for tickets with restricts (hence the $300 fee.) I've had to pay $200 in change fees in the past week, due to family medical emergencies, but I don't mind so much because I'm still coming in well below the $1200 walkup fare. It's the nature of the beast, or at least the beasts I fly.

All the same, I'm sorry for your loss, and I hope you were able to see your grandfather.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
OttoPylit
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:00 am

Quoting EridanMan (Reply 13):
Whenever I fly cross country, I fly B9, as I have done now for going on 4 years

What country are you flying across? From my calculations, the airline code for B9 is Iran Air Tours. If that is who you are referring to, wrong thread.



This is an example of someone who consistently tries to blame problems on everyone but himself or due to just plain bad luck.

Quoting EridanMan (Reply 13):
DL made my life miserable on a flight down to Miami last year (lost baggage, maintenence problems in Atlanta, etc).

Lost baggage on maintenance problems is just bad luck. People are human and do make mistakes. Apparently the bag runner just dropped the ball or was misinformed and didn't get your bag to the flight in time. As far as maintenance problems, Delta has enough to worry about than facing a jury and paying out millions to families for killing a couple hundred of them. Fixing the problem would be the best bet. AA infuriated you because you wanted to change a ticket at the last minute? Well gee whiz, why would they do that? You bought a ticket, you wanted to add a couple legs onto it, are you suggesting they should have let you go for free? Sorry, even B6 or B9 for that matter will still charge you a walkup upgrade fee. As far as HP, I don't know anything about them, as they are on the short list of airlines that I haven't flown yet; I keep meaning to, but the chance always escapes me.



OttoPylit
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KJFK31L
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:01 am

I personally don't mind jetBlue's growing presence at JFK and especially welcome its expansion into its own terminal.

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 4):
UA has shrunk to almost no presence at JFK.

Agreed-- still sharing Terminal 7 with BA.

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 4):
DL is mostly international at JFK and Song is nowhere near the size of jetBlue at JFK

jetBlue still has sometime before it catches up to Delta in quantity. While almost every other aircraft on Canarsie Climb is a jetblue A320, have you ever walked through Delta-Song Terminal 2-3... Quite a few departures, some domestic.

 crowded   crowded 

Matt
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going.
 
EridanMan
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:33 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 19):
What country are you flying across? From my calculations, the airline code for B9 is Iran Air Tours. If that is who you are referring to, wrong thread.

If you read, I corrected myself moments later, quick brain lapse (I meant B6).

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 19):
AA infuriated you because you wanted to change a ticket at the last minute? Well gee whiz, why would they do that? You bought a ticket, you wanted to add a couple legs onto it, are you suggesting they should have let you go for free? Sorry, even B6 or B9 for that matter will still charge you a walkup upgrade fee.

Perhaps I should have clarified, I bought my tickets over 2 months in advance, then a month later (still over a month from the travel date) I called and asked if I could just fly the return leg- it was then that I was informed that changing the two tickets would be an additional ~160 per ticket (320 total)...

Excuse me for applying to rules to common sense to travel, but they were already planning on flying me on the return trip (ORD->SFO)... but asking me to pay 320 bucks extra to do what they were going to do anyways was ludicrous, its not like I was asking for a refund of the SFO->ORD leg or anything (Which, frankly, would have been right- seeing as I was using half the service I initially paid for), but to charge me ADDITIONAL for LESS SERVICE...

Sure, ok, this is the 'standard' among legacy carriers...

But that is why I'm a loyal B6 customer, and why I shed no tears at the Chapter 11 announcements...

And, for what its worth- That exact same trip, a week or so before we were due to fly, my fiancee and I both managed to get a few extra days off from work so I called up jetBlue and asked what it would cost to move my departure date forward two days...

They did so, Gratis.

That is good customer service- and I reward them with ~2k/yr in business for it. Simple as that...

I know 2k/yr is a drop in the bucket- but you know what? B6 is profitable, the legacies are in Chapter 11...

Karma at work.
 
OttoPylit
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:19 am

Quoting EridanMan (Reply 21):
Excuse me for applying to rules to common sense to travel, but they were already planning on flying me on the return trip (ORD->SFO)... but asking me to pay 320 bucks extra to do what they were going to do anyways was ludicrous, its not like I was asking for a refund of the SFO->ORD leg or anything (Which, frankly, would have been right- seeing as I was using half the service I initially paid for), but to charge me ADDITIONAL for LESS SERVICE...

You should really pay attention to some of the Airline Economics 101 classes that are held on here. They weren't charging you for how far you were flying, or by how much. If I read correctly, you added additional legs to your flight to additional markets. In the effort to turn a buck, airlines price markets at different prices. It may be cheaper to fly LAX-JFK than MIA-CLT because of the market. And because of this, you were charged the additional cost of that market added, even if you were flying less segments. Everyone does it, even Jetblue. And the fare you paid also plays into the rules. From what I'm hearing, you had a deep discounted fare that held lots of restrictions and some of those restrictions are fees. Whereas on your Jetblue flight, you may have had a higher fare paid and therefore did not have such restrictions on the fare.


So you can give your service to whoever, but both B6 and AA are just doing what they do and what all airlines do, simple as that. Your lack of full knowledge on the subject has you jumping to conclusions, FYI.




OttoPylit
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TACAA320
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:25 pm

Quoting EridanMan (Reply 17):
Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 9):
Uhh, what I said was true. JetBlue took a handful of DL customers and kept them.

Just to clarify that I never ever said that. Those ARE NOT my words.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
Newark777
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:30 pm

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 8):

Uhh, what I said was true. JetBlue took a handful of DL customers and kept them.

Yeah, it's a little system called capitalism.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
EridanMan
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:59 pm

Quoting Ottopylit:
You should really pay attention to some of the Airline Economics 101 classes that are held on here. They weren't charging you for how far you were flying, or by how much. If I read correctly, you added additional legs to your flight to additional markets.

Indeed I am afraid you did not - I was SIMPLY trying to cancel the outbound leg of a round trip while retaining the return trip... 1/2 the service. I wanted to re-arrange my out-bound trip to include a few days stop-over in Washington DC for medical reasons (Through unrelated carriers, jetBlue and ATA). AA insisted that in order to travel on ONLY the return leg of a round trip I had already purchased, I needed to pay 320 dollars more... half the service, simple as that.

Beyond that though-

I am a newcomer here- aviation enthusiest, yes- but I have never claimed to know the business 'from the inside' in any way, shape or form. (quite the contrary, I'm a Silicon Valley Software Dork).

Nor have I said anything but "I know this 'contract to carry from point a to b' is standard practice among legacy carriers"... I know it is, I know to AA my 360 (each) tickets to/from Chicago were considered to be a massive discount, and in exchange for them I gave AA the right to my first born son... or, as the case may be, to bend me over should my situation change in any way, shape or form... even if that mean them doing significantly LESS work- they could still charge me a 50% higher fare, because my 'contract was for the journey', I didn't buy a commodity, so to speak.

But you know what?

I don't give a flying !@#* how standard practice it is... it sucks. It makes flying miserable, it makes dealing with the companies miserable if you are the 95% of the passengers who don't carry a 'platinum miles' card or whatever other garbage that particular airline offers... beyond that, it doesn't meet the simple 'common sense' test in any way, shape or form. And, I honestly BELIEVE (note, Believe, not assert, not argue, not claim - just truly feel) that its getting sick of garbage like needing to pay 50% more for 50% less service in the event of a mandatory schedule change is a rather large factor in young professionals/students such as my self fleeing the legacy carriers like proverbial sinking ships...

(FWIW, with the jetBlue ticket, the change fee plus fair difference came to 75 bucks per ticket by leaving two days earlier, however, I had mentioned from the beginning that I was changing because the purpose of the trip was to see my (now deceased) grandfather, and I had found I could spend a few more days than I had initially expected... without asking or prompting, the B6 Agent put me on hold for a minute, came back, and said that she had cleared to offer me the change at no charge given the circumstances- to be honest, I was completely floored...)

No, I am no aviation insider, but don't patronize me as to suggest that I 'just don't get it'... I understand the "Airline Economics 101" rules your suggesting...

I'm also TELLING you that they are precisely why legacy airlines have lost my (and many other self-riteous, sophmoric yuppies like myself who don't like being patronized by dim-witted CSR agents) business.
 
EridanMan
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:01 pm

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 23):

Just to clarify that I never ever said that. Those ARE NOT my words.

Please forgive me, I had not realized that the quote functionality was pulling the ID of the post immediately below - I'm still learning the forum.

Indeed, they are definitely not yours:-P

-Scott
 
markabcan
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:13 pm

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 3):
JetBlue is horrible. It is like they want to put all the carriers out of business as well as many people on the streets. I just cannot stand how they can attack the legacies. They are one of the main reasons some of us are in Chapt. 11.

What you are referring to is good business and a competitive market! You are correct, without any competition the legacies would be in great shape but that is not how the world works. Success is a businesses ability to thrive and adapt to an ever changing economic environment! The legacies have not done this and many of them are paying for it now! Jetblue is a innovative forward looking company and I am sorry that they are hurting your favorite airline, Delta I assume. It is great to see people so young so passionate about to aviation industry.

Cheers
 
gigneil
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:19 pm

Quoting Worldliner (Thread starter):
or does is show a demise of american carriers?

Lets put it how it is: jetBlue, like Southwest, operates a fleet of aircraft on a limited route network to only very major domestic and nearby international destinations.

Delta, American, and United serve most states in the US and most major cities across the world.

How could a legacy compete, even if their labor costs were the same? No amount of management could fix that.

If someone has a valid argument, I'd love to hear it.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 1):
Well, Song has a few more months left, they are history.

That's incorrect. Song will become the standard delta-wide product. Hardly a demise.

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 4):
jetBlue is much metter inflight with IFE they need to learn to bite the big one on this.

Song offers the same seat pitch, comparable IFE, and twice the inflight service options.

Hardly much better, but I would say they're competitive with each other.

Quoting KJFK31L (Reply 20):
jetBlue still has sometime before it catches up to Delta in quantity.

At JFK? That's incorrect. jetBlue is the #1 carrier there.

N
 
OttoPylit
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:55 pm

Quoting EridanMan (Reply 25):
I don't give a flying !@#* how standard practice it is... it sucks. It makes flying miserable, it makes dealing with the companies miserable if you are the 95% of the passengers who don't carry a 'platinum miles' card or whatever other garbage that particular airline offers... beyond that, it doesn't meet the simple 'common sense' test in any way, shape or form.

Welcome to the airline industry!

Quoting EridanMan (Reply 25):
No, I am no aviation insider, but don't patronize me as to suggest that I 'just don't get it'... I understand the "Airline Economics 101" rules your suggesting...

Who, me?  stirthepot  Honestly though, you really should look into it and learn more about what your complaining of and you will find, alas, everyone has basically the same rules. Some can bend the rules, some can't(AA is notorious for it, thats true). But you are complaining about 1 trip on each airline that you've taken. If thats all you have to bitch about, your luckier than many of us. To the rest of us on here, it just shows pity.

Quoting EridanMan (Reply 25):
I'm also TELLING you that they are precisely why legacy airlines have lost my (and many other self-riteous, sophmoric yuppies like myself who don't like being patronized by dim-witted CSR agents) business.

Yea, those dim-witted CSR agents can't stand sophmoric yuppies like you, so you might as well a big bulls-eye on your shirt next time. But as I said before, you are free to fly who you like. And when you and your fiancee get married and take your honeymoon to Tahiti, I'm sure Jetbl.....Airtra......South......Spir.......Fron............um...........well, no one will get you there. So since you refuse to fly anyone but those nice little LCC's from now on, enjoy your honeymoon in Flint, MI.




OttoPylit
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
EridanMan
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:40 pm

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 29):
everyone has basically the same rules... But you are complaining about 1 trip on each airline that you've taken. If thats all you have to bitch about, your luckier than many of us.

You say Everyone has the same rules... But in my experience, that simply isn't the case. B6 treats each leg of a trip like a commodity, pure and simple. A flight with a layover = cost of leg 1 + cost of leg 2. They do not over book - you buy a seat on X plane to take you from City A to City B, string together as needed to get to your final destination... Its the 'duh' approach to airline pricing (imho Wink)... Add to that a customer service who is given both the authority to cater too and enough pay to deal (pleasantly) with yuppie scum such as myself- and how can I help but conclude that B6 is different Wink

(Hey, I may be a pain in the ass, but at least I'm honest about it Wink)

As for my experience with other carriers- no, I can't say I'm much of a Masochist... one strike, two at absolute most, and as long as there is competition, I am going to try someone else... and god knows there is plenty of competition at the moment...

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 29):
But as I said before, you are free to fly who you like. And when you and your fiancee get married and take your honeymoon to Tahiti

I dunno, Nassau sounds pretty good, or maybe Puerto Rico, or the D. Republic Wink... come to think of it, I don't think that b6 even flies to Flint Wink
 
OttoPylit
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:57 pm

Whoa, I haven't been winked that many times since I walked into that bar in San Francisco that one time, but how was I supposed to know that a bunch of hairy guys dressed in leather was supposed to "mean" something? lol

Quoting EridanMan (Reply 30):
A flight with a layover = cost of leg 1 + cost of leg 2.

Yes, but try pricing. For instance, price JFK-MCO, and then price, say, BOS-TPA. Same distance, but you will get 2 different prices. Because the markets(city pairs) are different and the airline, just maybe, can scam the rest of the world into buying a ticket for that price in an effort to make some money. Ha, those sneaky airlines they are.

Quoting EridanMan (Reply 30):
Add to that a customer service who is given both the authority to cater too and enough pay to deal (pleasantly) with yuppie scum such as myself-

Also keep in mind that Jetblue doesn't carry half as many yuppies as American, Continental, Delta, United, or anyone else. The more people you cater to, the more people who will be unhappy, despite the service provided. For instance, Delta is the largest airline across the Atlantic, and arguably the largest in the world as far as passengers carried. You had a bad experience and swore off them, but a good portion of the U.S. disagrees. Yet, Delta has, on average, 3.82 complaints per 100,000 passengers. Thats a pretty darn good record, if you ask me.

Quoting EridanMan (Reply 30):
and god knows there is plenty of competition at the moment...

 footinmouth  Not so fast, Independence is shutting down tomorrow night.

Quoting EridanMan (Reply 30):
I dunno, Nassau sounds pretty good, or maybe Puerto Rico, or the D. Republic

Make sure you don't try SDQ from JFK. DL chased them out of that market, apparently. They retreated quite silently, I didn't know about it until today. Your gonna take your girl to PR or Dom Rep? Are you sick? I can understand Nassau, but.....just make sure you don't drink the water. I hear its as bad as Mexico.

Quoting EridanMan (Reply 30):
come to think of it, I don't think that b6 even flies to Flint

No, but its arch-rival(and the airline most wishing it could be called Jetblue2), Airtran does. Such exciting destinations too. I didn't think life got any more hip than Moline, Il.




OttoPylit
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
TACAA320
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:59 pm

Quoting EridanMan (Reply 26):
Please forgive me, I had not realized that the quote functionality was pulling the ID of the post immediately below - I'm still learning the forum.

No problem. Was just, as I said, a clarification.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
KJFK31L
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:28 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 28):


At JFK? That's incorrect. jetBlue is the #1 carrier there.

In number of aircraft present per unit time, I think not.

Matt
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going.
 
MiCorazonAzul
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:46 pm

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 29):
So since you refuse to fly anyone but those nice little LCC's from now on, enjoy your honeymoon in Flint, MI.


Flint MI????? Sorry to inform you but a so called "legacy carrier" flies there. And I suppose you forgot all about Puerto Rico (3 different cities), Dominican Republic, The Bahamas...and hopefully Cancun soon to come....ALL served by Jetblue?

This comment is especially surprising coming from someone who works for a bankrupt carrier.....oh but a so called "legacy carrier".......

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

but then again, a Delta employee bashing Jetblue???? Not surprising......
Live for Today.....tomorrow is NOT guaranteed.
 
bobnwa
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:52 pm

Quoting KJFK31L (Reply 33):
In number of aircraft present per unit time, I think not.

Matt

Please clarify what that means. I am not being funny here, I really don't understand.
 
KJFK31L
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:32 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 35):
Please clarify what that means. I am not being funny here, I really don't understand.

No problem! I may have been a bit unclear in my comment. I was indicating that on a per day basis, there are as many Delta Airlines aircraft (including Song) in the Delta-Song Terminal as there are jetblue A320s. For example, since 8:00 this morning (EST) there have been 16 DL departures and have been 15 jetBlue departures.

There are as many, if not more Delta aircraft at JFK than B6 aircraft on a per day basis. I agree that B6 is one of the most active and consistent carriers at KJFK, but do not believe that the regularity of B6 departures should cause one to overlook the sheer fleet size and impact of Delta at JFK.

Hope that clarifies.

Matt
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going.
 
bobnwa
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:36 am

Quoting KJFK31L (Reply 36):
No problem! I may have been a bit unclear in my comment. I was indicating that on a per day basis, there are as many Delta Airlines aircraft (including Song) in the Delta-Song Terminal as there are jetblue A320s. For example, since 8:00 this morning (EST) there have been 16 DL departures and have been 15 jetBlue departures.

There are as many, if not more Delta aircraft at JFK than B6 aircraft on a per day basis. I agree that B6 is one of the most active and consistent carriers at KJFK, but do not believe that the regularity of B6 departures should cause one to overlook the sheer fleet size and impact of Delta at JFK.

Hope that clarifies.

Matt

Thanks Matt, now I understand and I also agree with you.
 
jetblueatjfk
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:54 am

Yea but so far B6's 80 something planes mostly all pass through there within like 2 days of each other and whenever I look out my window all I see is B6,AA,B6,DL,AA,B6,B6 planes going out or in. While they may have more planes there, B6's planes are out there making money, (not like DL's don't but, slower turnarounds are also part of this) but they do go through.

So basically B6 is the biggest operator. I mean the airport used to be a ghost town during the day, enough that you could lay down and tan on the runways and not have any distractions and then just be busy at night. Now it is busy for most of the day.

 airplane jetBlueAtJFK airplane 
 
KJFK31L
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:03 am

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 38):
I mean the airport used to be a ghost town during the day

Not sure I agree completely with your over-simplification. Check out jfktower.com and look at the airport traffic reports from the pre-jetBlue era and you will see quite a bit of activity during the day.

Either way, I see jetBlue as a positive asset to JFK and support its continued development. It may hinder the domestic markets of UA, AA and DL out of JFK, but AA and DL still have a ton of planes out of Jamaica, Queens!

Matt
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:15 am

Quoting EridanMan (Reply 13):
AA infuriated me a year and a half ago when they forced me pay 300 dollars to "UPGRADE" my round-trip OAK->ORD flight to a one-way ORD->OAK return flight so that I could make the trip OAK->IAD->ORD->OAK to see my dying grandfather one last time

Roundtrips costs more than one-ways on the majors usually. All you had to do to save the $300 was not show up for the OAK-ORD leg. Your ORD-OAK leg would have been fine, and you wouldn't have paid the $300. Assuming, of course, there were no date changes. Though, as you demonstrate, the major airlines make things like this difficult and confusing, while jetBlue and other newer airlines do not.
a.
 
EridanMan
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:39 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 40):
All you had to do to save the $300 was not show up for the OAK-ORD leg. Your ORD-OAK leg would have been fine,

This was my initial thought, however, I was told by a former AA ticketcounter agent (friend of mine) and then later by the agent I spoke to at the phone that missing the outbound leg would automatically void my return ticket...

The phone agent was adamant, that if I wanted a return flight at all, I would HAVE to change the ticket... perhaps I was just suckered... anyone with more inside experience have any insight?

(this also matches with some of what I've heard on here, where missing any leg of a complex series of hops will void your ticket with most majors).
 
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airzim
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:42 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 28):
That's incorrect. Song will become the standard delta-wide product. Hardly a demise.

Wrong. Only on flights over 1500 miles. Again having an airline within an airline by having two different products but this time with the same paint scheme.

Song failed, end of story. Adding in TV's to coach seats is hardly Song becoming Delta mainline. If you watched the Frontline show on advertising there was a whole piece on what Song attempted to be about. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/persuaders/view/
It was a bunch of nut jobs running around saying the following, " you're being so Song, that was so Song, you've got Song." The Song approach was a cultural, not a paint scheme or TV's. The customer didn't care and TV's, having martini's, and paying for meals. Those things don't drive people to an airlines. It's (1) reliability, (2) price. Everything else is nuance.

Delta folks just can't admit failure when they see it.
 
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airzim
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:43 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 28):
That's incorrect. Song will become the standard delta-wide product. Hardly a demise.

Wrong. Only on flights over 1500 miles. Again having an airline within an airline by having two different products but this time with the same paint scheme.

Song failed, end of story. Adding in TV's to coach seats is hardly Song becoming Delta mainline. If you watched the Frontline show on advertising there was a whole piece on what Song attempted to be about. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/persuaders/view/
It was a bunch of nut jobs running around saying the following, " you're being so Song, that was so Song, you've got Song." The Song approach was a cultural, not a paint scheme or TV's. The customer didn't care and TV's, having martini's, and paying for meals. Those things don't drive people to an airlines. It's (1) reliability, (2) price. Everything else is nuance.

Delta folks just can't admit failure when they see it.
 
jetblueatjfk
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:23 am

Quoting KJFK31L (Reply 39):
Not sure I agree completely with your over-simplification. Check out jfktower.com and look at the airport traffic reports from the pre-jetBlue era and you will see quite a bit of activity during the day.

It was pretty empty on certain parts and other times it wasn't. But by saying that it was busy during the day is exaggerated to, you can easily find big gaps between flights. And I am sorry you don't understand exaggerationsthat are not to far off to prove a point.

  jetBlueAtJFK  

[Edited 2006-01-05 00:26:11]
 
werdywerd
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:01 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 31):
Make sure you don't try SDQ from JFK. DL chased them out of that market, apparently. They retreated quite silently, I didn't know about it until today. Your gonna take your girl to PR or Dom Rep? Are you sick? I can understand Nassau, but.....just make sure you don't drink the water. I hear its as bad as Mexico.

Where did you get that false info about DL chasing us out of SDQ? The reason we pulled out was becasue it was not profiable with all of the bag restrictions and high landing fee's that SDQ has, this is why we switched to Santiago, DR instead.

Also, have you ever been to Puerto Rico? The water is fine there. Puerto Rico is beautiful and very americanized. It's not some third world country.

It seems as if you have no facts about anything and you just spew "hearsay" as if it were factual. Please stop this.
 
richierich
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:05 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 29):
And when you and your fiancee get married and take your honeymoon to Tahiti, I'm sure Jetbl.....Airtra......South......Spir.......Fron............um...........well, no one will get you there.

Oh yeah, and your SkyMiles can only be used on the first and last Tuesdays of every month, one Wednesday a month, and, oops, only when there are those seats available. (sarcasm)
I know miles and points can be used advantageously but the truth of the matter is it takes a lot to do anything worthwhile and it is not like they are restriction-free. In many cases, the amount of money you'd save flying an LCC could easily buy you the ticket to Tahiti in the first place. Probably First Class.
None shall pass!!!!
 
Bobster2
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:10 am

After making my reservation for jetBlue redeye PHX-JFK, ten days in advance of the flight, I discovered from the seat map that the flight was almost full. So, just for fun, I looked up the seat maps on Expedia for AmericaWest, which also has PHX-JFK, and they had three flights that day, including a redeye about the same time as jetBlue, that were all half empty even though the fare was maybe $10 higher than jetBlue.

Then I checked again a few days before the flight, AmericaWest was still half empty, but the crazy thing is the way they raised the fares, so at that point AmericaWest was about double the fare of jetBlue even though jetBlue was full and AmericaWest was empty.

So would you say that jetBlue is hurting AmericaWest, or would you say that AmericaWest is committing suicide? They must be crazy to raise the fares when they have so many unsold empty seats.
"I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison
 
OttoPylit
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:19 am

Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Reply 34):
Sorry to inform you but a so called "legacy carrier" flies there.

Yes, they do, and so does an LCC. Care to take a stab at what its called?

Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Reply 34):
And I suppose you forgot all about Puerto Rico (3 different cities

Have you ever even been to PR? Its disgusting. They drive like maniacs there, and the place is filthy. Not someplace I care to visit ever again.

Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Reply 34):
ALL served by Jetblue?

And all CURRENTLY served by major airlines, as compared to "maybe soon" like Jetblue.

Quoting MiCorazonAzul (Reply 34):
This comment is especially surprising coming from someone who works for a bankrupt carrier.....oh but a so called "legacy carrier".......

You desperation that leaves you to attack that bankrupt carrier(you can't do it to me, since I was right and you didn't like that) only belittles what credibility you have, so please continue.

Quoting Airzim (Reply 42):
Wrong. Only on flights over 1500 miles.

No, your wrong. Only initially will it be for flights over 1500 miles. Depending how well it is recieved will determine if it is rolled out systemwide around 2007 or 2008. But what airline goes ahead and announces plans for 2 or 3 years in the future? None, because anything could happen in that time.

Quoting Airzim (Reply 43):
Song failed, end of story.

You can say and believe what you want, whatever helps you sleep at night, but you will be wrong. We're not gonna beat this dead horse again.

Quoting Airzim (Reply 43):
Delta folks just can't admit failure when they see it.

Sure they can. For instance, Jetblue FAILED in Atlanta. Jetblue FAILED against DL and AA on the JFK-SDQ route. See, its easy.  bigthumbsup 



OttoPylit
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
KJFK31L
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RE: Jet Blue, Good Or Bad For The Larger Carriers?

Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:24 am

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 44):
It was pretty empty on certain parts and other times it wasn't. But by saying that it was busy during the day is exaggerated to, you can easily find big gaps between flights. And I am sorry you don't understand exaggerationsthat are not to far off to prove a point.

Sorry if my comment seemed to warrant a such a response from you. Anyway, I agree that there were many gaps in activity during the day at Kennedy pre-jetBlue but I do not attribute any increase in activity after this period solely to B6. I spend almost everyday during the summer spotting ILS approaches to runways 13L and 13R as well as approaches to 4L and 4R so I feel that I am in a position to comment.

Sorry for any past aggression on my part.

Matt
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going.

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