Blasphemystic
Topic Author
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Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:59 pm

I heard a pilot call into a radio talk show and express his concerns about opening the cockpit door to use the bathroom while in flight. He said it is a fault in the system to safegaurd the cockpit.
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -- Samuel Johnson
 
flypdx
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:09 pm

Yes, there are protections (some) in place though. Normally they block the area with a cart, and usually has a FA or Two monitoring the area. I think it would be difficult now to gain access to the cockpit. People on the plane would jump and tackle any potential intruder.
 
Blasphemystic
Topic Author
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:22 pm

Quoting Flypdx (Reply 1):
People on the plane would jump and tackle any potential intruder.

Considering the TSA does their job of stopping any intruders board a plane with a potential weapon.
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -- Samuel Johnson
 
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yowza
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:57 pm

Do you think it will ever come to the point that the pilots will have their own en suite toliet? If this were to happen this would likely be something initiated in the US I think.

YOWza
 
aerobalance
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:00 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
If this were to happen this would likely be something initiated in the US I think.

Does the idea of this possibly happening in the US first bother you?
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
BigJimFX
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:01 pm

Quoting Blasphemystic (Reply 2):
Quoting Flypdx (Reply 1):
People on the plane would jump and tackle any potential intruder.

Considering the TSA does their job of stopping any intruders board a plane with a potential weapon

 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 
Thats great. I remember on a US Express flight to PIT on take off the cockpit door opened due to late afternoon turbulance. The FA at the front got up and closed the door after almost falling 3-4 times. Security Indeed!
I'd like to thank me for flying Me Airways...
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:16 pm

I think this topic was just discussed (as nauseum) a couple of weeks ago...

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/2504075
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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yowza
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:10 pm

Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 4):
Does the idea of this possibly happening in the US first bother you?

Behave sweetheart, I was not trying to pick a fight. The reason I said what I did was that the US is the only country that is fierce in its restrictions on cockpit access and the like...

YOWza
 
LPLAspotter
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:22 pm

I recently took a flight on America West from PHX to EWR. The pilots must have had the shits or something because as they were constantly going back and forth to the toilet (much to the annoyance of the FAs it appeared). The procedure was for the first class FA to go into the cockpit to keep the other pilot awake (or God knows what else behind the closed door) while an FA from Y class stood infront of the door with her arm crossed - I really felt safe knowing that any potential terrorist/nutcase would first have to go through the 5ft2in FA before getting access to the cockpit.

LPLAspotter
Nuke the Gay Wales for Christ
 
jush
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:42 pm

Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 4):
Does the idea of this possibly happening in the US first bother you?

No, no not for me. It's just you have the paranoia and the illusion to make a plane 100% safe. So i wouldn't be surprised if it would be implemented first in the US.

A plane will never be 100% safe against terrorists.
I know it's for minimizing the risk but for me a toilet for the pilots only is just ridiculous and not necessary.
There are enough exit and entry procedures to the flightdeck already to minimize the risk.

Regds
jush
There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
 
Dreamflight767
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:20 pm

I cannot remember which magazine had an article about this, either "Airlines" or "Airways" (GREAT magazines by the way).

But one of them described a screen, similar to ones you put on a back or front door of a house, that pulls down from the top and locks on the bottom (operating like a window shade). It is see thru just like a regular black screen and is installed at the first bulkhead, between the cabin and gally/first aircraft door. So when the pilots have to access the galley, front lav., or need to stand and stretch, the FA simply pulls down the screen, locks it, and keeps an eye out for potential threats. If a threat does occur, the FA would have enough time to call for help, give the pilot outside the cockpit enough time to secure himself back in the cockpit, and alert the other pilot in the cockpit to the problem.

The company that manufactures these screens, says that they are inexpensive, light weight, but very very durable. Although not bulletproof, in several conducted tests, it took about 5 minutes or longer for a knife to cut through the material.

I thought it was a brilliant invention and I often wonder why I have yet to see them installed in any of the aircraft I have flown on.

Aaron
 
CO7e7
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:30 pm

Quoting Jush (Reply 9):
A plane will never be 100% safe against terrorists.

I definitely feel safe flying knowing there are Federal Air Marshals on US flights, and just like what you saw in MIA on Dec 7th, on AA flight 924, If they have to take someone down, they'll do it.
 
Grbld
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:35 pm

Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 11):
If they have to take someone down, they'll do it

Be careful what you say there, I could easily make a snide remark referring to that incident (but I won't)!

Air Marshals are not on every flight. The main thing is just to be vigilant and stick to security procedures, knowing that 100% security is by definition, impossible.

Grbld
 
Twistedwhisper
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:57 pm

Quoting Blasphemystic (Reply 2):
Considering the TSA does their job of stopping any intruders board a plane with a potential weapon

Speaking of which; Has anybody heard what happened with the pilots demand to keep guns in the cockpit? Is it still a demand, or is it general pratice these days..?
Read between the lines.
 
CO7e7
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:18 pm

Quoting Grbld (Reply 12):
Air Marshals are not on every flight

I know that. They are on selected flights. I don't think anyone knows what the selected flights are though.

Quoting Grbld (Reply 12):
I could easily make a snide remark referring to that incident (but I won't)!

If you have anything you want to say, then say it. If you don't want to post it. Then contact me privately. I am very interested to hear what you have to say.
 
PurdueAv2003
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:19 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
Do you think it will ever come to the point that the pilots will have their own en suite toilet?

How about "in seat" toilet? I would love to hear some of the ATC traffic then:

"Pittsburgh tower (nnnnnnn!) Crapper 10200 (nnnnnnn!) requesting clearance. (nnnnn!...plop)."

 biting 
Ptu = Ftu X Anet (not to be confused with a.net)
 
apodino
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:16 pm

Quoting TWISTEDWHISPER (Reply 13):
Quoting Blasphemystic (Reply 2):
Considering the TSA does their job of stopping any intruders board a plane with a potential weapon

Speaking of which; Has anybody heard what happened with the pilots demand to keep guns in the cockpit? Is it still a demand, or is it general pratice these days..?

You are reffering to the Federal Flight Deck Officer (FFDO) program. There are a limited number of pilots in this program who do carry guns while on duty. I flew with an FFDO one time. I will not say anything more about this for security reasons.
 
jush
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:23 pm

Quoting PurdueAv2003 (Reply 15):

How about "in seat" toilet? I would love to hear some of the ATC traffic then:

"Pittsburgh tower (nnnnnnn!) Crapper 10200 (nnnnnnn!) requesting clearance. (nnnnn!...plop)."

 rotfl 
There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
 
kaneporta1
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:29 pm

You people always try to think of the most complex solution...Just make pilots wear diapers. Problem solved!!!
I'd rather die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather, not terrified and screaming, like his passengers
 
lincoln
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:31 pm

Quoting LPLAspotter (Reply 8):
first have to go through the 5ft2in FA before getting access to the cockpit.

On CO, the practice I've observed is to park a galley cart across (perpendicular to) the asile as close as possible to the flight deck door, then the FA stands in front of the cart.

On my most recent flight, in addition to this, there was a FA standing at the bulkhead between, the segment before that, I -think- they parked a galley cart at the bulkhead as well, but that could have just been the FAs taking a fair amount of time to prep for the next beverage service.

Seems reasonably secure without adding the extra weight (and MX costs and space) of a lav for 2 people...

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
goaliemn
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:55 pm

Quoting Kaneporta1 (Reply 18):
You people always try to think of the most complex solution...Just make pilots wear diapers. Problem solved!!!

I know a couple of pilots that use catheters on longer flights.
 
LPLAspotter
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:27 am

Quoting Goaliemn (Reply 20):
know a couple of pilots that use catheters on longer flights.

I don't think so. I had one of those after surgery and it was extremely painful when put in and taken out. I think you are referring to some type of bottle or what not - That's what fighter pilots use (or some type of tube), but definitely not something that's shoved up your schwong.

LPLAspotter
Nuke the Gay Wales for Christ
 
RobertS975
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:17 am

Foreign carriers are not as sensitive to the concept of cockpit security as are American crews. This is quite understandable IMO. I was aboard a foreign carrier out of ATL and the captain stood chatting with the FAs in the forward galley for quite some time with the cockpit door ajar.

Also, I was on an internal IB flight, MD80, where the cockpit door remained open through the takeoff, climbout and well into the flight. These were all post 9/11.
 
Matt72033
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:27 am

Quoting Blasphemystic (Thread starter):
I heard a pilot call into a radio talk show and express his concerns about opening the cockpit door to use the bathroom while in flight. He said it is a fault in the system to safegaurd the cockpit.

make em piss in a bottle!

Quoting TWISTEDWHISPER (Reply 13):
Speaking of which; Has anybody heard what happened with the pilots demand to keep guns in the cockpit? Is it still a demand, or is it general pratice these days..?

thats a ridiculous idea! a gunshot fired on an aircraft could be catastrophic!
 
Blasphemystic
Topic Author
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:41 am

Quoting Goaliemn (Reply 20):
I know a couple of pilots that use catheters on longer flights.


 Yeah sure
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -- Samuel Johnson
 
A319XFW
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:08 am

Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 23):
thats a ridiculous idea! a gunshot fired on an aircraft could be catastrophic!

I don't think it would be as catastrophic as they make out in movies.
After all, the outflow valve is probably open wider most of the time than the hole a bullet would make.
 
Matt72033
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:14 am

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 25):
don't think it would be as catastrophic as they make out in movies.
After all, the outflow valve is probably open wider most of the time than the hole a bullet would make

true, but would you want to risk hitting a window for instance? i just think its a really bad idea to have guns on aircraft!
 
exarmywarrant
Posts: 263
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:14 am

Quoting LPLAspotter (Reply 8):
The procedure was for the first class FA to go into the cockpit to keep the other pilot awake (or God knows what else behind the closed door)

The FA is there to unlock the door when the pilot comes back...
 
goaliemn
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:16 am

Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 26):
true, but would you want to risk hitting a window for instance? i just think its a really bad idea to have guns on aircraft!

you must not watch Mythbusters.. they did a show demonstrating a bullet hole through the skin of an airplane, as well as through a window, at altitude. Did little or no damage. no massive decompression as in the movies.

http://www.mythbustersfanclub.com/html/explosive_decompression.html
 
goaliemn
Posts: 320
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:19 am

Quoting LPLAspotter (Reply 21):
I don't think so. I had one of those after surgery and it was extremely painful when put in and taken out.



Quoting Blasphemystic (Reply 24):
Yeah sure

I talked to them after your first comment. The use a Texas catheter. More like a tube around the outside. Its like a tight condom with a tube going to a bag on their leg.
 
A319XFW
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:21 am

Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 26):
true, but would you want to risk hitting a window for instance?

If you look carefully at windows there are at least 2 panes. I don't know what material the outer one is (plastic? As you can polish scratches off until it reaches a certain minimum thickness IIRC?), but the inner one is (also) thick plastic, so I wonder if it would shatter or not. If not, you'd still only be left with a hole the size of a bullet.

On a side note, the inner pane also has a small hole in it at the bottom, so if the outer one should fail, the air will only escape through that small hole, so you don't get a sudden depressurisation.
 
ual747den
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:32 am

Quoting Jush (Reply 9):
A plane will never be 100% safe against terrorists.
I know it's for minimizing the risk but for me a toilet for the pilots only is just ridiculous and not necessary.
There are enough exit and entry procedures to the flightdeck already to minimize the risk.

No one said that the pilots were getting their own toilet, don't get out of control for no reason.

Quoting Grbld (Reply 12):
Be careful what you say there, I could easily make a snide remark referring to that incident (but I won't)!

Do it then. If you have a "snide remark" about that incident it shows your obvious lack of knowledge. So are you going to say it or keep hiding behind your monitor......?

Quoting TWISTEDWHISPER (Reply 13):
Speaking of which; Has anybody heard what happened with the pilots demand to keep guns in the cockpit? Is it still a demand, or is it general parties these days..?

Pilots do carry guns. After a training course they can be certified.

Quoting matt (Reply 23):
that's a ridiculous idea! A gunshot fired on an aircraft could be catastrophic!

How? A gunshot would be a gunshot. It might leave a hole somewhere but that is about it. The hole would be catastrophic if it happened to be in someone it wasn't meant to be in.
/// UNITED AIRLINES
 
Matt72033
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:36 am

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 30):
so I wonder if it would shatter or not. If not, you'd still only be left with a hole the size of a bullet.

but if they did shatter you now have a big hole!

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 30):
On a side note, the inner pane also has a small hole in it at the bottom, so if the outer one should fail, the air will only escape through that small hole, so you don't get a sudden depressurisation.

the holes there to equalize the pressure between the two, if the outer pane fails the hole becomes choked and the inner pane will take the load! no air will be lost through it!

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 31):
How? A gunshot would be a gunshot. It might leave a hole somewhere but that is about it

how about a hole in a hydraulic line? control cable? through a wiring loom? short circuit? fire? seems like it could be pretty catstrophic to me!
 
10mid
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:15 am

RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:38 am

Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 23):
a gunshot fired on an aircraft could be catastrophic!

A gunshot fired ANYWHERE could be catastrophic.
 
goaliemn
Posts: 320
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:46 pm

RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:43 pm

Quoting 10MID (Reply 33):
A gunshot fired ANYWHERE could be catastrophic.

I've fired thousands of rounds at the range and yet to have a catastrophic incident caused by one  Wink

This is really going off topic quickly..
 
noelg
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:56 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
Do you think it will ever come to the point that the pilots will have their own en suite toliet?

Some of them do. I know certain 747-400s do for sure, there's a little toilet cubicle on the right as you walk into the flight deck.

Don't forget that on longer flights the crew still have to change for a rest break so they'd still have to leave the flight deck then!

Cheers,
Noel
 
Grbld
Posts: 349
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:25 pm

RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:17 am

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 31):
Do it then. If you have a "snide remark" about that incident it shows your obvious lack of knowledge. So are you going to say it or keep hiding behind your monitor......?

Wow, dude, what's with the hostility? The thing I was going to say was that the person shot by the air marshals was not a criminal, nor was he a terrorist and it's not even certain that he was even dangerous. So what's to say about my lack of knowledge? Second, the person was not even shot inside the plane.

I'm not saying that they made a big snafu, only that using this incident as an example by someone saying that they feel safe (because the air marshals killed a guy with a mental disorder that actually ran off the plane) is dubious at best.

I'm also not saying that air marshals are bad, I may actually feel safer with them on board as well. That said, I don't feel unsafe at all right now at the forward side of that flight deck door that we're talking about here. There are some flights that I wouldn't mind having one along though.


Grbld
 
Blasphemystic
Topic Author
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:48 pm

RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:18 am

Quoting Goaliemn (Reply 34):
This is really going off topic quickly..

Like many topics in this forum.

Quoting Noelg (Reply 35):
Some of them do. I know certain 747-400s do for sure, there's a little toilet cubicle on the right as you walk into the flight deck.

Thanks for sticking with the topic. I never knew that.
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -- Samuel Johnson
 
Matt72033
Posts: 1589
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 10:03 pm

RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:24 am

Quoting Noelg (Reply 35):
Don't forget that on longer flights the crew still have to change for a rest break so they'd still have to leave the flight deck then!

744 has crew rest in the flightdeck
not seen one with a toilet in ther too! but there is a toilet right outside, so i guess they could just move the door back a bit!
 
irelayer
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:36 am

I think rubber bullets would be an effective deterrent for the purser and the cockpit crew in lieu of a security breach. I'll admit I don't know much about them though...any thoughts?

-IR
 
Tristarsteve
Posts: 3365
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RE: Opening Cockpit Door During Flight

Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:43 am

Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
Do you think it will ever come to the point that the pilots will have their own en suite toliet?

The venerable Vickers VC10 had a crew toilet outside the flight deck.

Many years ago El Al B737-200 had a bullet proof door which was closed between the galleys before the pilots left the flight deck. But lets let them reinvent it in the States.