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1337Delta764
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787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:08 am

The wikipedia article claims that the 787 will be able to produce 128 color combinations. I have made a brief mention of this on the 787 mockup thread.

My question is: What colors will be used?

Here are my thoughts on certain colors for lighting on the 787:

  • Blue - Highly advertised on Boeing's 787 mockups, this would be ideal for an overnight flight.
  • Red - A good color for a morning flight.
  • Green - I hope airlines don't light the cabin in green. Green simply isn't a color for aircraft lighting.
  • Yellow - Same with green.
  • Purple - This color could be used for stormy flights
  • Pink - Like red, this color would be ideal for morning flights.
  • Orange - Ideal for evening flights.

Once again, there will be 128 color combinations

Any thoughts on this?
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MDorBust
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:11 am

Thought #1: Can we program them to dance to Dark Side of the Moon?

Thought #2: Mx Nightmare incoming

Thought #3: .....

Thought #4: Please stay with a pale yellow. It's what the human mind is most conditioned for.
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zbrox
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:18 am

Why stop at 128?
With R, G and B you can create as many as you want....
 
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N328KF
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:18 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 1):
Thought #2: Mx Nightmare incoming

It's not like there are 128 different "bulbs." And LEDs don't burn out.
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Glom
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:20 am

Agree no green or yellow. I like the blue, purple and red bit.
 
MDorBust
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:29 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 3):
It's not like there are 128 different "bulbs." And LEDs don't burn out.

Yes, LED lights do burn out.

But that's not what I was referring to. In order to have a system that can vary the color LED's are produceing, you will need to be able to vary the voltage travelling to the light assembly. This will require a complex power and control system. Much more advanced than a common dimmer system set up with standard white lights.
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Glom
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:31 am

Maybe they could use fibre optics. That would localise the lighting source to a more convenient area.
 
flyf15
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:34 am

So there are going to be 128 colors of light? Where exactly is this going to be... general cabin lighting?

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 1):
Please stay with a pale yellow. It's what the human mind is most conditioned for.

I agree. Our eyes / minds are conditioned to work best with the color of sunlight as see on the Earth's surface. It is what is most comfortable, easiest to read in, etc. Other colors could induce headaches, unwanted moods, etc...

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
Purple - This color could be used for stormy flights

Purple light, stormy night flight with lots of turbulence... that would be a terrific nightmare for scared flyers.
 
DavidT
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:52 am

Quoting Zbrox (Reply 2):
Why stop at 128?
With R, G and B you can create as many as you want....

I assume they'll only offer set levels for each of RGB. Like on PCs you choose from RGB 0-255, = 256^3, or 16 million colours.

Although 128 colours = 5.0396 different levels for each for R,G,B so I'm assuming the colours are programmed in rather than choosing from a mixer.
 
atmx2000
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:52 am

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 7):

Purple light, stormy night flight with lots of turbulence... that would be a terrific nightmare for scared flyers.

Yes, they should do stuff like that only on Halloween.  Smile
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AA737-823
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:15 am

Have you not seen those chintzy Christmas decorations that came out the last couple of years?
They're glass balls and stuff, and they have just THREE LEDs in the base, and they change colors infinitely. They're like ten bucks.

So no, MDorBust, I would argue that it is not going to "require a complex power and control system. Much more advanced than a common dimmer system set up with standard white lights."

Cheap electronic stuff.
And VERY lightweight.

If it can be powered by a single AA battery, I doubt it's complex. We're talking one microchip.
 
chrisrad
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:16 am

I had the new lighting system on an MH 772, was very good.
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7E7Fan
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:22 am

Well I am only guessing here but as some of you have already touched on, it's probably not so much that there will be a 128 different colors of lighting. Rather a palette of 128 colors that they can use for the programmable lighting system? You know for instance the rude awakening one gets on long-haul flights when after 6 hrs of semi-sleep cramped up in your seat (yeah, I don't get to fly First very often  Sad ) you are wakened by a chippy stewardess that just cranks on the overhead fluorescent lights because it is breakfast-time. And everybody is sitting there blinking like owls.

Well Boeing has already talked about that they will be doing gradual changes of lighting kind of like outside. So that you have a bluish night-mode that then gradually goes through a dawn-period of reddish colors that then via yellow approaches white. Hence no owls and no heart-attacks  Smile

Then of course as we can see in the mock-up shots there seems likes they are going to do clear natural sign for instance for lavatories. Green above the door means no applicants for the mile-high club inside and red means that they likely don't want you to rattle the handle just then  Smile

/Mike
 
MDorBust
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:31 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 10):
Have you not seen those chintzy Christmas decorations that came out the last couple of years?
They're glass balls and stuff, and they have just THREE LEDs in the base, and they change colors infinitely. They're like ten bucks.

So no, MDorBust, I would argue that it is not going to "require a complex power and control system. Much more advanced than a common dimmer system set up with standard white lights."

Cheap electronic stuff.
And VERY lightweight.

If it can be powered by a single AA battery, I doubt it's complex. We're talking one microchip.

You know what?

I have this cheap little electronic plane. It runs off of AA batteries. Switch it on and it flies around for a while. How can planes cost hundreds of millions?

Welcome to the worst comparisson today on A-net.

A christmas decoration is NOT an aircraft lighting system.
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killjoy
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:04 am

Do they really just use RGB? If they are, they're going to have problems. While an RGB light itself can be made to look like any color, all surfaces it hits will completely pervert the lighting.

For example, let's say you have a surface that reflects yellow light (it's yellow). If full spectrum light hits it, it will obviously reflect the yellow part and thus appear yellow.

However, if it is hit by RGB "white", it will in fact not reflect any light, as it only reflects Yellow, not R or B or G. It'll look like it's black.


Edit: and that article has bad information anyway. It says the 787 cabin will be 15" wider than the A330/A350 cabin although we know that the A350 cabin will also be improved, even if not by as much.

[Edited 2006-01-05 02:09:55]
 
lincoln
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:22 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
Red - A good color for a morning flight.

Maybe your idea of red and my idea of red are different, but WTF? I can't imagine waking up to a horror movie/crime scene lookalike to be good for a morning flight. Orange, perhaps, but red?

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 1):
Thought #2: Mx Nightmare incoming

I don't see that much of a mx issue... Instead of one dimmer there are three that are controlled in tandem (R, G, and B) plus some kind of color mixing device (unless the FA is just given "R", "G", and "B" knobs), as a trade-off the lamps last longer (though not indefinately), the system consumes less power (don't know how big a factor this is on aircraft), and presumably weighs about the same if not a little less overall. Then again, I don't work on aircraft, so I really have no idea what I'm talking about in this particular regard.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 10):
Cheap electronic stuff.
And VERY lightweight.

Yeaaahhh... Are your Christmas lights certified by the FAA or any other aviation authority? How redundant are they? How likely are they to fuel a fire in the event of an abnormal cabin environment? If you can show that your "cheap electronic stuff" meets the requirements of Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations sections 21.303, 21.601-21.621, 25.823, 25.1353, 25.1363, etc.* then I'll be somewhat more impressed.

There's a reason (well several of them, but...) why just about anything that is installed in an airplane is VERY expensive, even if it looks just like this other thing that would never be installed in an airplane.

(I have a feeling if airlines could get away with stringing christmas lights through the cabin rather than dealing with mantaining the "real" systems, they would  Wink)

Lincoln

*- Some of these may not be completely relevent, though portions of them would seem to apply, also there are bound to be dozens of regulations that I haven't included.
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1337Delta764
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:39 am

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 15):
Maybe your idea of red and my idea of red are different, but WTF? I can't imagine waking up to a horror movie/crime scene lookalike to be good for a morning flight. Orange, perhaps, but red?

I personally think pink would be a good alternative, but some people would think pink as too feminine. Therefore, red IMO would be the best choice.
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Zone1
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:39 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 5):
This will require a complex power and control system.

Not really. My roommate made a circuit that pulses a white LED using pulse width modulation. To change colors the same type of curcuit will be needed, instead you dim three different LEDs to make various colors. I don't see it being that complex, you could probably do build the circuit needed to do this using parts from Radio Shack. I've seen circuits that do PWM using 555 ICs ($1.50 at Radio Shack).
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:42 pm

Quoting Killjoy (Reply 14):
Edit: and that article has bad information anyway. It says the 787 cabin will be 15" wider than the A330/A350 cabin although we know that the A350 cabin will also be improved, even if not by as much.

The 787 cabin has about 12 to 13" more usable space from what I can determine.

Quoting Killjoy (Reply 14):
For example, let's say you have a surface that reflects yellow light (it's yellow). If full spectrum light hits it, it will obviously reflect the yellow part and thus appear yellow.

However, if it is hit by RGB "white", it will in fact not reflect any light, as it only reflects Yellow, not R or B or G. It'll look like it's black.

Absorption and reflection of different colors isn't so absolute for most materials. Anyway I doubt it is pure RGB light. They have only 7 bits to work with with 128 colors, so they probably have pure white light as well as 7 isn't divisible by 3.
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ikramerica
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:48 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 1):
Please stay with a pale yellow

well, our minds adjust sunlight to look pale yellow, but it is actually bluish. fire light is orange/yellow though, like various incadescents. many flourescents have a greenish cast, which is one reason humans don't respond to them, though the ones with "warm" coatings help mitigate that, though they do lack certain wavelengths.
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killjoy
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:11 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 18):
Absorption and reflection of different colors isn't so absolute for most materials. Anyway I doubt it is pure RGB light. They have only 7 bits to work with with 128 colors, so they probably have pure white light as well as 7 isn't divisible by 3.

I know it's not that absolute, but I needed a simple example. It'll still often look wrong, though.

7 bits doesn't sound too convincing either, actually. 2 bits per channel + white on/off isn't exactly going to give them a lot of options.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:58 am

Quoting Killjoy (Reply 20):
7 bits doesn't sound too convincing either, actually. 2 bits per channel + white on/off isn't exactly going to give them a lot of options.

Don't 4-bit and 8-bit color usually use an indexed pallete rather than direct channels? I know that is how GIF works.

I am not sure whether the 787's lighting would have an indexed pallete.
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atlantic
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:44 am

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 15):
Yeaaahhh... Are your Christmas lights certified by the FAA or any other aviation authority? How redundant are they? How likely are they to fuel a fire in the event of an abnormal cabin environment? If you can show that your "cheap electronic stuff" meets the requirements of Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations sections 21.303, 21.601-21.621, 25.823, 25.1353, 25.1363, etc.* then I'll be somewhat more impressed.

yes you just certify them and then its the same cheap stuff used in Christmas lights with maybe different plastic etc. So the comparison is not far fetched. Many of the chips used in flight computers have had a product life before in regular off-the-shelf PC's. Of course it will be more expensive but rather because of the certification than because of the hardware itself. Economies of scale rule the semiconductor world. If something is different it's the cabling etc.
 
atmx2000
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:02 am

Quoting Killjoy (Reply 20):
I know it's not that absolute, but I needed a simple example. It'll still often look wrong, though.

7 bits doesn't sound too convincing either, actually. 2 bits per channel + white on/off isn't exactly going to give them a lot of options.

It gives them 64 colors, in a couple of shades for a total of 128 colors.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 21):
Don't 4-bit and 8-bit color usually use an indexed pallete rather than direct channels? I know that is how GIF works.

I am not sure whether the 787's lighting would have an indexed pallete.

Yes, but in at least the case of 8 bit color, the underlying system can display more colors, just not all at the same time. I doubt that is the case with the 787.
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1337Delta764
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:40 am

I personally don't think every single color would be used by an airline, just some basic passenger-friendly colors. Once again, I hope that nobody uses greenish or yellowish colors. I would like white for day, blue for night, red/pink for morning, orange for evening, and purple for storms.
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radiocheck
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:29 am

I love the idea of the colored lights in the cabin. In fact, I suggest that in addition to the lights, Boeing should install fireplaces in the bulkheads, and lay down shag carpeting, thus effectively making the bulkhead row the "sweet passionate lovemaking row."

-Landon
 
zbrox
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:49 am

Talk of Bits etc indicates posters of an age where colors are computer screens and pixels only.
There are no such thing as indexed colors IRL...
Hate to be the one to tell ya, but that's one of those hard facts of life...

Read any book on theatre lighting and you'll find out that the first you learn is that with 3 spotlights in Red, Green and Blue aimed at the same white surface you're able to create any color. Only by using a dimmer for each spotlight. And as long as the dimmer(s) do not have any fixed levels the numbers of color that can be created is indefinite.

The concept of dimmed RGB LED's is used in many applications. Jacuzzi use it as a sort of "color therapy" in some of their more expensive showers. LED's are programmed to go through sequences of colors that are supposed to create various mindsets: Relaxation, energy, passion, focus e t c.
(Goethe wrote a lot about how colors affect people)

I am quite sure that the airlines will use the LED's to

- enhance their corporate graphic profiles (indoor "liveries" without paint...)
- create certain emotions: energy for "wake up calls", relaxation for nightflights e t c.
- Do cool things that will make people just enjoy the lightshow

But most of all I think the RGB thing is there because:

- LED's are cheaper to run in the long run
- If you create white "base light" with RGB is gives you a bunch of cool options that white LED's don't. At virtually no extra cost.
- And this tiny little feature turns out to be [one of the] most discussed things on this multi billion dollar development project.

Bet the engineers cry!

(And the marketing folks laugh)
 
ikramerica
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:08 am

Quoting Zbrox (Reply 26):
- Do cool things that will make people just enjoy the lightshow

Or just seasonal options during boarding. Green, red and yellow at christmas, orange and purple on halloween, pastels during easter, red white and blue during 4th of july (bastille day, etc. for all countries with red white and blue and a national patriotism day, or whatever colors your flags are if they aren't red white and blue).
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1337Delta764
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:07 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 27):
Or just seasonal options during boarding. Green, red and yellow at christmas, orange and purple on halloween, pastels during easter, red white and blue during 4th of july (bastille day, etc. for all countries with red white and blue and a national patriotism day, or whatever colors your flags are if they aren't red white and blue).

I don't know if multiple colors at different sections will be supported, but IMO woudn't be very passenger friendly.
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ikramerica
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:22 am

no, i was thinking that within one section different lights would be able to be different shades. it really depends on the system.
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Tristarsteve
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:37 am

Instead of guessing, why not go out on a new B777 and see how it works.
Most of the MH B777 have mood lighting in Business class. Every time I go on board there is a new colour. When you look up at the window lights there are rows of light sources.

Talking of LEDs, I realised that I have worked on the A320 since 1988 and have NEVER had to change a filament in the flight deck switches or indicators. On the B757 B767 B737 I change some every day, those small incadescent 387, but on A320 never. Perhaps they are more reliable.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:42 am

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 30):
Instead of guessing, why not go out on a new B777 and see how it works.
Most of the MH B777 have mood lighting in Business class. Every time I go on board there is a new colour. When you look up at the window lights there are rows of light sources.

You know that it might not be the exact same system that the 787 will feature.
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Tristarsteve
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:46 am

Of course I don't know anything, but there is so much technical know how in this thread by everyone that does, I thought I would mention that the end result is available for viewing now.
 
killjoy
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:39 am

Quoting Zbrox (Reply 26):
Talk of Bits etc indicates posters of an age where colors are computer screens and pixels only.
There are no such thing as indexed colors IRL...

The source, dubious as it may be, said the 787 cabin lighting could produce 128 different colors. It is most certainly appropriate to talk about bits. Atmx2000 also already covered why indexed colors aren't applicable.

Quoting Zbrox (Reply 26):
Read any book on theatre lighting and you'll find out that the first you learn is that with 3 spotlights in Red, Green and Blue aimed at the same white surface you're able to create any color. Only by using a dimmer for each spotlight. And as long as the dimmer(s) do not have any fixed levels the numbers of color that can be created is indefinite.

...which is exactly how displays work. (excluding the part about fixed levels, of course)

Not to mention that theatre != interior design. Three types of LED lights alone can only look like sunlight, not be equivalent to it. This is the exact reason I didn't light my apartment the same way. I think my calculations showed that I would have needed independent arrays of about 7-10 different LED colors to produce a spectrum even close to natural light.

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 23):
It gives them 64 colors, in a couple of shades for a total of 128 colors.

Which is worse than it sounds. I doubt any airline would want to produce puke green, for example, so the real range would be more limited. Plus, when a designer is planning the environment, he'll likely already be looking for a certain color. 4 different levels per channel, of which one is off, does not offer much flexibility.

Don't get me wrong, though. I think the idea is brilliant, and I really hope Airbus does the same thing, since Finnair ordered the A350.

[Edited 2006-01-05 23:43:45]
 
chrisrad
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:06 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 31):
Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 30):Instead of guessing, why not go out on a new B777 and see how it works.
Most of the MH B777 have mood lighting in Business class. Every time I go on board there is a new colour. When you look up at the window lights there are rows of light sources.
You know that it might not be the exact same system that the 787 will feature.

See reply 11.

This system is already being used by MH on their upgraded 744's and 772's
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DocLightning
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:31 am

So variable-color LED lighting systems are a few years old. Anyone who has been to the Burning Man festival (or, for that matter, has seen a large LCD TV display such as at DTW's McNamara terminal) can tell you all about the various and sundry uses for LED's as a form of low-current, high-intensity, high-durability lighting with practically endless color choice. I say "practically endless" as the range of colors far exceeds the ability of even the most trained eye to discern between two adjacent colors on the palate.

The choice to make a 128-color palette is most likely a software decision because 8 bits can code for 128 different values. For an application such as this, it would theoretically be possible to offer as many as millions of different colors, much as are used in the TV sets. HOWEVER, there is no point in doing this for cabin lighting as the definition isn't required in this application. The 128 colors will allow operators to choose a smooth transition between pale yellow lighting (daytime) to orange/red (sunset) to deep blue/indigo (night) and back. As has been pointed out, it will be a lot more pleasant than the current "paddle over the rear" tactic of turning on all the lights at once.

Of course, all of this beautiful effect will be completely destroyed as soon as one passenger turns on the overhead reading lamp.

And it doesn't matter to me because I travel with an eyeshade.
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atmx2000
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:38 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 35):
The choice to make a 128-color palette is most likely a software decision because 8 bits can code for 128 different values

Ahem, 7 bits codes for 128 values. And I can't see a software reason to limit ones self to 128 values in this age of cheap 32 bit processors and memory and I/O. There has to be a physical limitation that limits the selection to 128 colors.
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AerospaceFan
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:46 am

One thing that bothers me about some kinds of LED lighting is the "flicker" effect. Take the LED brake lights of certain late-model vehicles, for example. If you look at them directly, no problem. But as soon as you move your eyes away, with some of them, there's an irritating "flicker" effect that you notice. At least, I do. The effect is difficult to describe; it's somewhat akin to seeing only a few images of the brake lights over the course of its travel across your field of vision, rather than what you would expect -- a normal "stream" of light reaching from the center to the side of your vision as you complete your scan. The discrete images are created because of the strobe effect of the LED, which allows the eye to see the brake light only when the LED's are flashed on.

The effect lasts only a few microseconds, but it's definitely there. I would imagine that the strobe frequency is in the neighborhood of thousands or tens of per second.

I hope that if there is a strobe or flicker frequency on the LED's aboard these planes, it's not going to be noticeable.

[Edited 2006-01-06 00:52:32]
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zbrox
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:52 am

The really interesting thing is that a bunch of people (=men) sit around the world and discuss color variations in interior lighting in a non-existing plane.

One of those things best kept a secret...
 
killjoy
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:17 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 35):
The 128 colors will allow operators to choose a smooth transition between pale yellow lighting (daytime) to orange/red (sunset) to deep blue/indigo (night) and back.

Since all of this is highly subjective, I decided to create a chart. It represents 4 levels per color (RGB, off to max) and an extra white light (on/off), for a total of 7 bits (or 128 colors):



The bar at the bottom is my idea of a transition from pale yellow to orange/red to deep blue. Not quite seamless imho, but everyone can decide for themselves.

But we don't even know what they're actually planning, of course...

Edit:

Quoting Zbrox (Reply 38):
The really interesting thing is that a bunch of people (=men) sit around the world and discuss color variations in interior lighting in a non-existing plane.

P.S. Not gay.

[Edited 2006-01-06 01:19:48]
 
atmx2000
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:21 am

Quoting Killjoy (Reply 39):
Since all of this is highly subjective, I decided to create a chart. It represents 4 levels per color (RGB, off to max) and an extra white light (on/off), for a total of 7 bits (or 128 colors):

Zbrox is going to razz you for this.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
GVWOW
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:19 am

Another interesting aspect of lighting the 787 could use is complimentary tinting. In this setup, the desired color does not come from one particular light, but a mixture of a few from different locations. For example, a light pink coming from one part of the room (possibly the LEDs along one edge of the ceiling in an aisle) mixed with a pale lavender from the other side would appear warm-white on the plastic trim. However, a person's face would look much more 3-D and natural than one color from both locations. This method is usually only used in theater, but I'm sure it could be easily adapted for use by this new system.
 
zbrox
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Sat Jan 07, 2006 6:14 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 40):
Zbrox is going to razz you for this

RAZZ...

 Cool


Not much into theories (Never went to school...)
But I did work as a roadie/lighting-designer in the analog days.
And with three flood lights (R,G and B) and two hands on the mixer and a few presets I definitely managed to create seamless transitions on a white backdrop.
Or maybe I didn't. Maybe it was all just done with light, smoke and mirrors.
Or wait a sec - no mirrors. Just light and smoke.

Still find the most interesting part is that the discussion is taking place at all!
Let's embrace the geek in the depth of our souls!

 praise 
 
zbrox
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Sat Jan 07, 2006 6:16 am

Quoting GVWOW (Reply 41):
For example, a light pink coming from one part of the room (possibly the LEDs along one edge of the ceiling in an aisle) mixed with a pale lavender from the other side would appear warm-white on the plastic trim.

Now we're talking!
 
DLPMMM
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Sat Jan 07, 2006 6:39 am

There are engineering reasons for the transition to this type of lighting system:

1. The certification will be much easier than for incandescent systems since LEDs are low voltage devices and as such are much less of a hazard.

2. Lifetime of LEDs are much longer (more than 10X) than incandescents.

3. Weight is less.

4. Price is now comparable (perhaps less after certification requirements).

5. Control electronics are very simple.

In the past the LEDs were quite expensive, only in the last few years has quantities produced for other applications allowed for enough price reduction to allow for cost efficient integration into this type of application. In another 10 years or so, we will see the transition into commercial buildings and homes.

The crash of the telecom equipment sector and the rapid expansion of DVD players helped alot in reducing prices for these LEDs as the equipment is essentially the same as for making laser diodes.
 
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1337Delta764
Topic Author
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:01 am

Here is how LED pricing is usually, from cheapest to most expensive:

1. Red
2. Green, Yellow, and Orange
3. Blue, White, and Pure Green*
4. Pink and purple (mostly experimental)

*Pure Green LEDs differ from regular green LEDs as they feature a deeper, richer shade of green, appearing less yellowish. I am unsure whether the G in the RGB lighting of the 787 would be a regular green LED or a pure green LED.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
gigneil
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:31 am

At any rate, this is available now on the A340 and 777... nothing real new.

N
 
swissy
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:08 pm

What gets me is LED's are around for a long time........
There are a lot cheaper to make, run longer use less power... oh wait that is
to good lets not use it..................... Let the LED's glow

Cheers,
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:15 pm

128 Color Combinations... Are they gonna have a Dance Dance Revolution Pad in the plane.?  Smile
Puhdiddle
 
killjoy
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RE: 787 LED Lighting - Color Combinations

Sat Jan 07, 2006 10:49 pm

Quoting Zbrox (Reply 42):
But I did work as a roadie/lighting-designer in the analog days.
And with three flood lights (R,G and B) and two hands on the mixer and a few presets I definitely managed to create seamless transitions on a white backdrop.
Or maybe I didn't. Maybe it was all just done with light, smoke and mirrors.
Or wait a sec - no mirrors. Just light and smoke.

I still fail to see the significance of this analogy. If you can prove that the source was wrong, I see your point, but if the control system really only offers 128 colors, you're not producing seamless transitions on anything, period.