StevenUhl777
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Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:37 am

From NWCN (Northwest Cable News) website:

http://www.nwcn.com/statenews/washin...6WABseatacincidentLJ.4a8f633f.html

At least AS is saving money by having lower cost Menzies on the property and customers are getting lower fares as a result...  Yeah sure
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
stuckinMAF
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:42 am

From the article....

"Four passengers - three adults and one miner"

I hope this wasn't the miner from WV that survived! Much too early for him to be flying!
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud
 
jpyvr
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:42 am

From the NWCN link in the original post: " Both Alaska and Port of Seattle officials say a tow tug collided with the jet, damaging it enough to take it out of service. Four passengers - three adults and one miner - were on board at the time, but no injuries were reported."

My question, do you think the fourth passenger was a gold miner since the flight originated in Alaska? I can't believe neither the writer or the editor of the article knows the difference between "miner" and "minor." Shameful.
 
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foxecho
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:49 am

Aaah the publik skools in action again

Andrew
..uh, we'll need that to live......
 
Coronado990
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:51 am

Quoting Jpyvr (Reply 2):
My question, do you think the fourth passenger was a gold miner since the flight originated in Alaska? I can't believe neither the writer or the editor of the article knows the difference between "miner" and "minor." Shameful.

Maybe it was this guy...


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StevenUhl777
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:54 am

Quoting Jpyvr (Reply 2):
My question, do you think the fourth passenger was a gold miner since the flight originated in Alaska? I can't believe neither the writer or the editor of the article knows the difference between "miner" and "minor." Shameful.

Since it was "breaking news" it was probably written very quickly. I've noticed that on other news sites, and then they go back and correct it later on once they catch it.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
JRadier
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:32 am

it has been corrected
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
gift4tbone
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:46 am

Ok, I'm not even going to read this article. But this is my thoughts:

AS, Smarten up! You're lucky nobody has been killed. Get rid of the menzies! Or someone might!

When will they learn? Does the FAA need to step in? I'll tell ya, if I was the director of the FAA or even the NTSB, I would be personally knocking on AS's door. And I wouldn't even think of booking an AS flight to seattle to do so either.

-Tony@PVD
Top 3 airports: PVD 23.9%(138 flights), PHL 14.7%(85 flights), PHX 10.2%(59 flights)
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:02 am

This is turning into a real PR problem for AS. Too much negative press in their largest market is bound to take a toll if something isn't done about the ground handling situation soon.

Out of curiosity, does AS still employ their own ground staff at other stations? (ANC, PDX, LAX?)
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:06 am

I am sorry but I simply can't get over the word "menzies" and it's usage as slang for "menstruation."
 
thepilot
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:17 am

I'm definetely not liking all the problems these days at SEA. I am flying Alaska twice in the next month, and I hope they can sort things out at SEA.
From YVR
 
socalatc
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:23 am

Alaska contracts Menzies in LAX-PDX-SEA and I think a few other stations. The only remaining Alaska rampers are in the state of Alaska.. Menzies is a joke, they have caused Alaska bad press, bad service and just a bad experience. I love Alaska, but I wish they would get their heads out of their asses and DO SOMETHING!
 
Okie
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:24 am

http://www.faa.gov/data_statistics/a...reliminary_data/media/D_0104_N.txt

Well an AS737 struck back a LAX and hit a tug.

But then again it sounds like missing chocks.

Okie
 
socalatc
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:40 am

The way I see it is when you work for a company you have company pride and you want to do well for that company and want your company to do well. When you just work for a company who works for a company there is no pride, no moral, or incentives for good work. These Menzies workers could give a damn about Alaska Airlines or how they do. All they want is there 9 bucks an hour and go home. If Alaska had their own people they would care about the company they work for. If Alaska did the right thing and hired their own people back, I think they would see a big difference. Can someone who works for Alaska PLEASE go to someone in corporate and slap the hell out of the retard who made these decisions, maybe that will wake him or her up.
 
as739x
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:36 am

AS and Menzies

SEA-PDX-SFO-SJC-LAX-SJD-PVR-GDL and a number of other Mexico stations.

Note that I am defending Menzies or Alaska in any way guys, but look at the big picture. We have had Menzies (Ogden) at SFO-PDX-SJC-LAX and Mexico for many, many years with very little accidents. The SEA issue was blown up with the way AS got rid of its own ramp and now with the accidents. The incident with Flight 808 its the same kind of things that happens with every other airline PERIOD. Now I am in no way taking away from the incident with the MD80 the other day. That was plain and simple BS and some people should have more then there hand slapped. But from AS point of view the airline has to have a lot of incidents to balance out the money being saved with a contractor. I can't say exact numbers, not knowing if I am allowed, but the saving is over $14 million in on the job injury saving alone. That just OJI, and does not including the medical, 401K, etc., the company had to spend with its own ramp. But I agree with all of you that AS has to look hard at finding a solution. But even bring back our own ramp, most of those people have moved on to other jobs, so we'd have to train from scratch with all new people anyhow.

Also, the same incidents happened even when we had our own rampers. In some ways our own AS crews were even worse. But with the SEA area press practically on the ramp with us, no stone goes unturned. But I will agree that this is a major PR issue right now. But we will have to sit back and see what happens since none of us can do anything!

ASLAX
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
flyidaho
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:01 am

I agree-ramp rash happens at nearly every major airport nearly all the time. We just don't always hear about it and 99% of the time it doesn't make the news like these AS incidents. Read the NTSB reports and they are full of ramp incidents. Menzies has been providing services for AS for a long time and I don't see them parting ways with AS anytime soon with the economics that are involved. I'm thinking that with the PR at SEA now, that might just become the safest ramp in America.
 
Lono
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:16 pm

so menzies will pay for the door/fuselage damage and the engine damage caused by the belt loader..???.... plus the cancellation of the DFW flight's...???
This one is going to be expensive.......
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
HikesWithEyes
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:22 pm

Quoting Lono (Reply 16):
plus the cancellation of the DFW flight's...???

The DFW flight was not canceled. The aircraft was swapped and the
flight did operate.
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:27 pm

So, this is going to be a retarded question, but I am going to ask it and nobody is going to stop me.

Why is Alaska/Menzies having so many problems at SEA? But you never hear of Alaska/Menzies problems at PDX and LAX...at least recently???

I ask the question, do you think that some of the accidents/incidents occurring in SEA today may be a result of sabotage to AS for getting rid of the company rampers?
 
as739x
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:45 pm

Wedge: Menzies PDX operation is well established and is very professional. Matter of fact I feel that their reputation there has put Menzies foot into the door in other station. SFO is also a good operation for them. We had issues with Menzies at OAK and dumped them. LAX has some issues to be taken care of as does SEA. But fact is that Menzies insurance covers what they damage so other then some low cost and A/C OTS time is doesn't effect AS greatly. Now the PR side of things has gone a little sour and that will be AS biggest challenge.

ASLAX
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
searpqx
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:56 pm

Quoting AS739X (Reply 19):
Now the PR side of things has gone a little sour and that will be AS biggest challenge.

Bingo - there is an old saying, Perception equals Reality, and everything that has happened in SEA since the switch is building a very negative perception. I think your analysis of the cause/effect was spot on, but if AS doesn't do something soon to address the perceived breakdown of SEA ops, it doesn't matter how much this happens elsewhere, AS is going to be marked as an 'unsafe' airline.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
lincoln
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:18 pm

Quoting Socalatc (Reply 13):
The way I see it is when you work for a company you have company pride and you want to do well for that company and want your company to do well. When you just work for a company who works for a company there is no pride, no moral, or incentives for good work.

In this particular case, I would probably agree with you, however...

My employer is a very well respected Authorized Independent Programmer for a line of automation gear (primarially the stuff of training rooms, high end board rooms, video conferencing facilities, and to a rapidly growing extent, homes). We never work directly for the true client. Instead the dealer of the gear is our client.

I would say that because of how important continued business is for us (and the fact that the client's client could go somewhere else OR the client could go somewhere else, either resulting in lost business for us), we do take pride in what we do, there is high morale, and many incentives for doing high quality work (the aforementioned people going elsewhere, the desire for one dealer to refer us to another, and the possibility that if we really f'ed things up we would no longer be authorized independent programmers.

In return? We kind of lurk in the darkness. There's a reason the shirts I wear don't have a company name embroidered on them. Sometimes end users come up with really, really bad ideas and you have to "talk them down" through 6 layers of people. We don't have a published client list, and I may very well be shot for even hinting about who some of our end user's clients are (a very impressive list of well-known individuals, local/state/federal agencies, universities, large publically held companies, financial institutions etc.)

But as you can probably tell, I do take pride in what I do. Maybe it's because we're a fairly small company; maybe it's because my boss (the owner of the company) is a great guy and knows how to run a business (both for profit and employee satisfaction); maybe it's because some of our jobs are invoiced for more than I make in a year, but being a contractor doesn't instantenaously mean inferior work.

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
Lono
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:39 pm

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 17):
The DFW flight was not canceled. The aircraft was swapped and the
flight did operate.

Two hours later.... there was no expense to this...???? Was the flight full...???? Was the flight full of happy customers...??? You don't think this cost AS anything..????
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:51 pm

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 18):
I ask the question, do you think that some of the accidents/incidents occurring in SEA today may be a result of sabotage to AS for getting rid of the company rampers?

Huh? By whom....pilots? mechanics? flight attendants? This was all ramp related, all by Menzies people. The ex-ground folks from AS were fired last May. Your question makes no sense.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:22 pm

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 20):
Bingo - there is an old saying, Perception equals Reality, and everything that has happened in SEA since the switch is building a very negative perception. I think your analysis of the cause/effect was spot on, but if AS doesn't do something soon to address the perceived breakdown of SEA ops, it doesn't matter how much this happens elsewhere, AS is going to be marked as an 'unsafe' airline.

I agree, but right now I think the vast majority of folks in Seattle are oblivious to the incidents. It's interesting to visit KOMO's website, for example, and read the latest, but then you move on and don't really give it another thought.

I'm guessing that, for now, very few people would shy away from AS when booking travel, and virtually no one if they were the lowest fare. As big of a deal as it is here, I have yet to hear a single person make more than a passing comment, and that was only after prodding by me.

Quoting Lono (Reply 22):
Two hours later.... there was no expense to this...???? Was the flight full...???? Was the flight full of happy customers...??? You don't think this cost AS anything..????

I think you're a little more worked up over it than most would be. I'm sure that the passengers weren't happy, but are they ever happy for any delay? How many times do people ON THIS FORUM complain about XYZ Airlines for delays, even when they are safety related (i.e weather, aircraft change, etc.)?

The Menzies mess is just that - a mess. But the only reason anyone is aware of it is the media. They smell blood, so to speak, and are on it, primarily because it's the hometown airline and also because of the MD80 issue. Othewise, nobody really cares at this point - IMHO.

Alaska is in a very bad spot - They are in the media spotlight for the Menzies issue after firing their own employees, but if they revert back saying it was a mistake, they will be screwed the next time this labor situation arises. In their shoes, I'm sure it is a lose-lose, so you might as well lose by getting your way, rather than saying you screwed up.

And before you say that they would be held up by the masses as a wonderful company for rehiring their own employees, the fact is it would be just like the Valujet thing (though much smaller of course): "Alaska, which fired it's own employees in a bid to save money, only to rehire them after a host of safety issues, had a new incidient today...."

Just my opinion. Please, I'm tired, if you disagree, state your point, but don't hit me with the attitude. I want to be able to go to bed  Smile.

-Dave
-Dave
 
HikesWithEyes
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:53 pm

Quoting Lono (Reply 22):
Two hours later.... there was no expense to this...???? Was the flight full...???? Was the flight full of happy customers...??? You don't think this cost AS anything..????

Calm down...I was just correcting your inaccurate statement.
You said or implied that the flight was canceled when in fact it was not.
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
 
DCrawley
Posts: 328
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:16 pm

Quoting Gift4tbone (Reply 7):
And I wouldn't even think of booking an AS flight to seattle to do so either.

I'm not here to pick a bone with you.. but you really believe AS fleet should be grounded? Ever checked out the fines the FAA has given to other airlines for safety reasons? Just curious.

Quoting Socalatc (Reply 13):
Can someone who works for Alaska PLEASE go to someone in corporate and slap the hell out of the retard who made these decisions, maybe that will wake him or her up.

This has already been done.. and people lost jobs over it.

Quoting AS739X (Reply 14):
The SEA issue was blown up with the way AS got rid of its own ramp and now with the accidents. The incident with Flight 808 its the same kind of things that happens with every other airline PERIOD.

Agreed. Well written thoughts AS739X.

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 20):
if AS doesn't do something soon to address the perceived breakdown of SEA ops

They are working on it. Fresh brains and ideas should start to help somewhat.

I was surfin' the web earlier today and had KING5 on the television. All of the sudden, there was breaking news talking about how a tug hit the aircraft that had just arrived from ANC and was suppose to continue on to DFW. It showed a live view of a 73G (winglet equipped) and made it sound VERY dangerous.. as if the world we now know was about to explode into tiny pieces. I couldn't believe what an event they made out of it! What I really wonder is who made the call to let the news know this happened??

Incidents happen at every airport with every airline at one point or the other but this is bad timing for AS. I agree with several members whom have stated that the largest challenge AS will face is climbing out of this bad public relations pit that they seem that have fallen into (and partially dug). Nothing is perfect and corporations make mistakes. I have faith that AS will get out of this and still retain its loyal west coast customer base.

-d
"Weather at our destination is 50 degrees with some broken clouds, but they'll try to have them fixed before we arrive."
 
SUPRAZACHAIR
Posts: 474
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:43 pm

Not sure if you all can view this (I can cut and paste if you can't), but this is the statement from everyone's favorite CEO Bill Ayer....

Bill Ayer's statement on ground damage
 
galapagapop
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:21 pm

Quoting Suprazachair (Reply 27):
Not sure if you all can view this (I can cut and paste if you can't), but this is the statement from everyone's favorite CEO Bill Ayer....

Good to see that meeting really helped prevent more incidents from happening!
 
AnMCOSon
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:12 am

RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:45 pm

From the news site...

Quote:
A Menzies employee had accidentally put a tow tug in reverse, pushing the plane forward and damaging the boarding door. At the same time, the baggage belt loader was still against the plane. When the plane was pushed, the baggage belt was pushed against the engine.

That should say pulled foward, not pushed, unless they had the tug hooked up backwards, which in AS's case with ramp mishaps, is a possibility.

From a ramp ape's point of view. Silly
What the? Did everything just jump around? Or did my brain just stroke off there for a second?
 
crash65
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:10 am

You get what you pay for.
 
BigOrange
Posts: 2291
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:30 am

Quoting Lono (Reply 16):
so menzies will pay for the door/fuselage damage and the engine damage caused by the belt loader..???.... plus the cancellation of the DFW flight's...???

No! Their insurance company will, and the more incidents like this that take place, the more their premiums will go up.

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 8):
This is turning into a real PR problem for AS. Too much negative press in their largest market is bound to take a toll if something isn't done about the ground handling situation soon.

The negative press is being generated by the union's PR people. They're just upset that their "cushy" jobs have gone. Most people that worked there before, probably got their job back working for Menzies.
 
Tod
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Sat Jan 07, 2006 6:21 am

Quoting DCrawley (Reply 26):
Quoting Socalatc (Reply 13):
Can someone who works for Alaska PLEASE go to someone in corporate and slap the hell out of the retard who made these decisions, maybe that will wake him or her up.

This has already been done.. and people lost jobs over it.

The slappers or the slappees?

Tod
 
lincoln
Posts: 3133
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:22 pm

RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Sat Jan 07, 2006 6:48 am

Quoting DCrawley (Reply 26):
This has already been done.. and people lost jobs over it.

I would think that if someone truly smacked the heck out the person in HQ who made the decision, that we would have seen AS either (a) start transitioning to another ground handling company or (b) move ground handling back in house... People may have lost jobs over it, but from my perspective overall AS seems "happy enough" with Menzies (sp?) performance.

Quoting DCrawley (Reply 26):
I'm not here to pick a bone with you.. but you really believe AS fleet should be grounded? Ever checked out the fines the FAA has given to other airlines for safety reasons? Just curious.

I can't speak for the person who posted the comment you responded to, but I would be hesitant to get on an Alaska aircraft based on what I've seen/heard recently, as well as what I've heard about Menzies. They may be (and probably are) perfectly safe. I've flown AS before, and it's been OK (or rather, not particularly memorable--all I remember are the stickers inside the overhead bins), but my perception [as well as a large portion of the non-enthusisat public] is that AS has a major problem that I don't want to get involved with.

Fines are just fine, and every airline racks up a few of them, but what about the stuff that happens before the investigation starts (or is even compleated).

It's like if I crashed my boss's car. First time "oh, accidents happen", second time "you really need to be more careful", third time oh, well, he's not my boss any more. Their insurance may be picking up the tab for now, but eventually someone will start denying claims and/or cancel the policy.

I must say, though, that I'm really supprised no one has brought up the AS MD-80 with the jackscrew issue (AS 291?) a few years back. The media should be congratulated for their restraint. (Even though it was a completely different issue).

Just my (inflation adjusted) $0.02

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Sat Jan 07, 2006 8:50 am

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 31):
The negative press is being generated by the union's PR people. They're just upset that their "cushy" jobs have gone. Most people that worked there before, probably got their job back working for Menzies.

Pardon??

I knew a lot of those rampers who lost their jobs and as it turns out very few did go to work for Menzies. Most were so fed up with being jerked about both by the company and the union they simply wanted to take their severance packages and move on. It simply wasn't worth the pay cuts, the injuries, the long hours the mandatory overtime, etc etc. Most of all, None of them felt valued for the very hard work they did. When I told one ramper I valued what he did, he looked at me with shock and said "in the nine years I have worked for this airline no one has ever told me that."

I don't know if you've ever worked on a ramp before, but there is nothing "cushy" about it. It's dirty, backbreaking work which must be done rain, snow or shine.

Nor was last summer's operations meltdown at SEA union PR. It was real, and the damage done to aircraft is also real. The reason the incident rate is so high is because you have a lot of poorly paid, poorly trained people doing physical, potentially dangerous work. My guess is also that the turnover rate is very high meaning an endless stream of inexperienced workers. It's a no-brainer that the incident rate is so high

In short companies get the kind of worker they pay for, and AS management were extremely short-sighted about trying to outsource the bag-handling operation of their primary hub. The damage they have done to both their reputation and to employee morale are going to have repercussions that will last for years.

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
StevenUhl777
Topic Author
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:15 am

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 34):
I don't know if you've ever worked on a ramp before, but there is nothing "cushy" about it. It's dirty, backbreaking work which must be done rain, snow or shine.

 checkmark  That work SUCKS. After working in the bagwell at the N satellite at SEA and in Air Freight for UA in the summer of '96, it's not something I'd ever want to do again. You absolutely get what you pay for, and in this case, the opposite is true for both AS and Menzies here in SEA. Where are the AS ramp supervisors in all of this mess? They should be out there overseeing their flights before they leave. If anything, THEY should be fired for their incompetence in these incidents.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
AnMCOSon
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:12 am

RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:30 pm

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 34):
I don't know if you've ever worked on a ramp before, but there is nothing "cushy" about it. It's dirty, backbreaking work which must be done rain, snow or shine.

Backbreaking isn't the word for it, more like hunchback creating work. Silly

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 35):
Where are the AS ramp supervisors in all of this mess? They should be out there overseeing their flights before they leave.

Over here in PIT, our leads/supers move the tug towards the plane to hook up the tow bar and do the push backs. After I read that, I was wondering the same. I've done two push backs in the seven years working here, and those were back in 99. I'm just not comfortable pushing them back, even if it is just straight back.
What the? Did everything just jump around? Or did my brain just stroke off there for a second?
 
Cessna172RG
Posts: 642
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:14 pm

From someone who gets to work with Menzies on a daily basis...

Menzies hires just about anyone with a limited, if any, background check. Yes, they don't care how many DWI's you have, or how many people you have killed. So long as you can throw suitcases, you can work for them. Aha, maybe that's where Osama is hiding!!!

Menzies has also hit a Horizon plane, tail #417, a few months ago. The schmuck, using chewing tobacco (another Alaska no-no that is not enforced after you are employed) drove his tug with a baggage cart near Horizon's spot 4, decided to cut close to the plane to do a U turn, and rammed the cart into the tail section of the plane. A small dent which required a week to fix was the result. Fortunately that plane was already on maintenance.

They spend their down time on the ramp either smoking behind the D concourse at SEA, or they scrounge up a boom box and dance around it. They look like a bunch of overly drunken Klingons. They drive on the wrong side of the service roads, cut off other legit vehicles, and frequently are disoriented. They are seen at the South Sattelite transferring bags to a plane that is sitting on the C gates for Horizon often. Let's see...S and C, what a big difference!!!

What I can't understand is why NWCN put Horzion Air at the end of their article, which sounds like they include Horizon as the party involved. Horizon is a seperate company, owned by AAG but operated as its own airline, not related to Menzies.
Save the whales...for dinner!!!
 
ctbarnes
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:24 am

Quoting Cessna172RG (Reply 37):
They drive on the wrong side of the service roads, cut off other legit vehicles, and frequently are disoriented.

Oh, God. Where are the POS Ramp Patrollers when you need them??

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
Tango-Bravo
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:08 am

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 34):
The damage they have done to both their reputation and to employee morale are going to have repercussions that will last for years.

Not to worry... Alaska's management is well aware that pax "loyalty" can be readily bought by the memory-purging narcotic known generically as cheap loss-leader fares. And if more is needed to buy their "loyalty," perhaps throw in triple miles for your SEA-BOS flight at a fare of $99.00 (as a present actual example).

As for morale of Alaska Airlines employees whose jobs haven't been outsourced...yet... what morale? Let's allow middle management to speak to this subject... When Alaska offered a voluntary severence incentive in 2004 to roughly 1,100 management personnel at the time, the goal was reduce head count by 125; instead, more than 400 voted with their feet by taking the opportunity.
 
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flybynight
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:49 am

I must say I do have second thoughts about AS out of SEA. I usually fly UA, but living in the Seattle area, I frequently fly AS. However, if the price is the same I am going to fly with UA in light of these recent incidents. I don't trust these guys to do a good job. Plane (pun intended!) and simple.
But to be me fair, I wonder what the overall statistics for these types of accidents are for say UA at O'Hare or AA at DFW. In other words, are AS's accident statistics substantially worse than the industry average?
Heia Norge!
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:08 pm

Menzies new theme song at SEA is a take on the Pat Bennatar song "Hit Me With Your Best Shot" The new title dubbed for them is "Hit Me With Your Best Cart"  cry 
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
Lono
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:03 pm

Quoting Cessna172RG (Reply 37):
They spend their down time on the ramp either smoking behind the D concourse at SEA, or they scrounge up a boom box and dance around it. They look like a bunch of overly drunken Klingons.

This is the second time someone has posted a "drunken Klingon" remark... It would be very cool if someone could take a pic of these clowns and post it on this page for us all to see...... Sounds to me like AS is losing the P/R battle... I bet these "workers" look like the workers DL hired in DFW back in the 7.5 days and they outsourced the ramp there.... it was sad... and it was sad for the remaining DL employees to have to deal with everyday.... very bad for employee morale.......
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:09 pm

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 1):
Four passengers - three adults and one miner

Well see, there's your problem right there - the Menzies guy obviously was blinded by the little lamp on his helmet, causing him to hit the aircraft.  Wink
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Tod
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:42 am

Quoting Lono (Reply 42):
It would be very cool if someone could take a pic of these clowns and post it on this page for us all to see......

I should have taken pictures this summer. My wife and I were sitting in the AS Board Room hanging out waiting for a delayed flight. The stuff we saw going on, on the ramp would have been hilarious if it wasn't real. It was Three Stooges time. We must have seen a year's worth of near misses in a couple of hours.

Tod
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:54 am

From yesterday's Times...
http://archives.seattletimes.nwsourc...aska07&date=20060107&query=Menzies

"Beginning Monday, four senior executives will lead a 90-day review of Menzies' operations at Sea-Tac, Geddes said.

The 25 added supervisors "will be in place for as long as they're needed," Geddes said. "Our aim at the end of this review is to make Seattle the best station we have in our network.""

Hopefully things take a turn for the better. I had an interview scheduled with Menzies back in September, but had to cancel after I found out I was moving away for school. While I'm still unemployed, I can't say missing out on that particular job is bothering me too much right now...
 
lincoln
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:20 am

That article is just loaded with quotes that could be ripe for a late-night talk show...Or a lawsuit when someone finally does get injured...

Quote:
Two Transportation Security Administration (TSA) employees at Sea-Tac said Menzies employees frequently drive recklessly.

We tell them to slow it down; they just ignore us.

"They say, 'Are you the cops?' " recounted one of the TSA employees.



Quote:
On Friday, Port of Seattle employees were out with radar guns to make sure baggage handling occurred safely, one of the employees said.

I'm not quite sure what the connection between baggage handling and radar guns is "Oh, my god, you're throwing bags too quickly! Slow it down!"... On a serious note, how common is it to be shooting radar on the ramp?

Quote:
The airport also is increasing training. Port employees are working with airlines and contractors to "make sure they understand what 5 mph is," Parker said.

I can imagine the written test:**

5 MPH is...
a) The speed limit on the ramp, 5 miles per hour
b) The speed at which an aircraft becomes airborne, 5 miles per hour
c) The minimum damage to an an aircraft, 5 marks-per-handler
d) The minimum staffing to ensure adaquate damage to an aircraft, 5 Menzies per hull.
e) The staffing ratio when not working a flight, 5 Menzies per Hi-Fi*
f) None of the above


Lincoln
*- See also, stereo, boombox, etc. I was struggling there.

**- So it's not quite funny as I expected.
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
Tango-Bravo
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RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:29 am

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 46):
I'm not quite sure what the connection between baggage handling and radar guns is "Oh, my god, you're throwing bags too quickly! Slow it down!"... On a serious note, how common is it to be shooting radar on the ramp?

Are you serious in your implicit admission that you've missed an obvious point? In case you haven't noticed, motorized vehicles, some pulling cartloads of luggage, are indeed very much part of baggage handling. And, yes, safety is seriously compromised when same are driven at speeds too fast for conditions and/or with disregard to traffic controls in place on airport ramps. Which may explain the mention of radar guns on the SEA ramp or the consideration thereof.

[Edited 2006-01-08 21:50:02]
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:53 pm

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 39):
Not to worry... Alaska's management is well aware that pax "loyalty" can be readily bought by the memory-purging narcotic known generically as cheap loss-leader fares. And if more is needed to buy their "loyalty," perhaps throw in triple miles for your SEA-BOS flight at a fare of $99.00 (as a present actual example).

...Provided they haven't defected to Southwest or Jet Blue by then.

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
Lono
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 5:47 pm

RE: Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...

Mon Jan 09, 2006 1:53 pm

Quoting Tod (Reply 44):
My wife and I were sitting in the AS Board Room hanging out waiting for a delayed flight. The stuff we saw going on, on the ramp would have been hilarious if it wasn't real. It was Three Stooges time. We must have seen a year's worth of near misses in a couple of hours.

Exactly..... Great P/R for AS's most valued customer.... free floor show.... What is AS management thinking.....????? I know what the PAX are thinking....and are beginning to think.... hmmmm maybe I should fly on someone else while AS gets it's act together.....
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!