kalakaua
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Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:42 am

Airbus says 2005 orders similar to those of Boeing
Friday 6 January 2006, 6:28am EST

Spokesman Rainer Ohler said the final tallies would be close, after a surge of business in December. "In terms of aircraft order intake, Airbus will be in a similar ballpark to its competitor," he said.

"In terms of orders, Airbus has positioned itself at about the same magnitude as our competitor," she said, adding that speculation about an order gap between the two companies was "misleading".

Reuters link


MSN Money link

[Edited 2006-01-06 16:47:23]
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Stratofortress
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RE: REUTERS: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:47 am

Why can't they just tell us the freaking numbers? Hate PR spins.
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N328KF
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RE: REUTERS: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:50 am

"Magnitude?" That just means that Airbus has sales closer to 1000 than 100.  Wink

As my good friend, Inigo Montoya would say, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
leelaw
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RE: REUTERS: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:51 am

Per Dow Jones Newswires (01/06/06):

"...But spokesman Rainer Ohler said the final tallies would be close, after a surge of business in December. "In terms of aircraft order intake, Airbus will be in a similar ballpark to its competitor," he said.

Ohler dismissed press reports that Airbus received about 800 orders, indicating that the total is considerably higher. "Suggestions of a significant gap are completely misleading," he said.

He declined to give the full-year figure or say whether it fell short of Boeing's total, but added: "December is always a busy month in our industry."
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11Bravo
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:21 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 3):
"In terms of aircraft order intake, Airbus will be in a similar ballpark to its competitor"

Dizzy, I’m so dizzy my head is spinning.
Like a whirlpool it never ends.

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N79969
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:28 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 3):
"...But spokesman Rainer Ohler said the final tallies would be close, after a surge of business in December. "In terms of aircraft order intake, Airbus will be in a similar ballpark to its competitor," he said.

Ohler dismissed press reports that Airbus received about 800 orders, indicating that the total is considerably higher. "Suggestions of a significant gap are completely misleading," he said.

He declined to give the full-year figure or say whether it fell short of Boeing's total, but added: "December is always a busy month in our industry."

They would have looked better if they had been silent or very simply acknowledged the fact that they had a great year with no mention of Boeing.
 
aerobalance
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:31 am

Why is it that when I think of A & B, I think of a Jerry Sringer show?....
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NAV20
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:36 am

It's frankly ridiculous for the 'spokesman' to suggest that they haven't counted up the figures yet. They must know EXACTLY how many orders were signed up by 31/12.

I'm afraid that one has to suspect that they are negotiating with some purchasers to persuade them to agree to back-dating the relevant documentation - just to make the 2005 total look better. Seems a bit pointless.
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cricket
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:37 am

Well, a 100 of them were to IndiGo and we ain't seeing any signs of life on that front out where I live.
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
leelaw
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:37 am

Quoting N79969 (Reply 5):
They would have looked better if they had been silent or very simply acknowledged the fact that they had a great year with no mention of Boeing.

I agree. The "dialogue" between the OEMs is beginning to resemble meanspirited candidates in a political campaign, rather than business competitors in a marketplace.
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scbriml
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:41 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 7):

I suspect under European law that would actually be illegal. But you couldn't resist could you? sarcastic 
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Ken777
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:45 am

They would have been better just saying they had a record year and the largest backorder they have ever had. Apple doesn't compare their sales to MS and their stock is going through the roof.
 
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N328KF
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:48 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 9):
I agree. The "dialogue" between the OEMs is beginning to resemble meanspirited candidates in a political campaign, rather than business competitors in a marketplace.

What has Boeing said this year along these lines? I can only think of several things Airbus has said.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:53 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 7):
It's frankly ridiculous for the 'spokesman' to suggest that they haven't counted up the figures yet. They must know EXACTLY how many orders were signed up by 31/12.

To me nothing he says suggests that at all - just simply that they arent releasing the figures at this moment, which is probably due to allowing EADS and BAe first look at the 2005 EOY information.

Its just business and they all behave differently.
 
n1786b
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:57 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 7):
I'm afraid that one has to suspect that they are negotiating with some purchasers to persuade them to agree to back-dating the relevant documentation - just to make the 2005 total look better.

Reminds me of legislatures that stop the clock to pass laws before a deadline.

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 10):
I suspect under European law that would actually be illegal. But you couldn't resist could you?

Not to start a war, but who will take them to court if they do? Shareholders?

Considering there are only two shareholders in Airbus, I doubt EADS or BAE Systems would sue them.

And considering the political clout of EADS/AIRBUS/BAE Systems, I doubt any EU national financial watchdog/authority would take them on.

Anyhow congratulations to the entire industry for a great 2005!

-n1786b
 
FCKC
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:58 am

Airbus will reveal the exact order number at Paris on Jan17th.
Some reports in the French newspapers say this number could be around 980.
Anyway very similar in NUMBER as Boeing , but in VALUE Boeing will be far ahead , having sold many more widebodies than Airbus.
Boeing has not yet revealed their delivery number , but Airbus will be ahead , thus making it still NUMBER 1.
 
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N328KF
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:02 am

Quoting N1786b (Reply 14):
Not to start a war, but who will take them to court if they do? Shareholders?

Considering there are only two shareholders in Airbus, I doubt EADS or BAE Systems would sue them.

Yes, but EADS and BAe are beholden to their shareholders, and several EADS shareholders have shareholders of their own.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
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scbriml
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:06 am

Quoting N1786b (Reply 14):
Not to start a war, but who will take them to court if they do? Shareholders?

Ha! Don't worry, there are plenty of eurocrats who are always looking to justify their jobs who would just love to uncover illegal activities in such a company.

Anyway, the reason why it takes Airbus longer to tally than Boeing should be obvious to all. Us Europeans, and especially the French ones, have only just started to make their way back to work after the Christmas holiday, and there's lots to do - check our email, discuss all the football results, talk about which presents we really hated. On top of that, some pesky manager wants a report about plane sales figures. By next Friday! Zut alors!
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Toulouse
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:13 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 7):
I'm afraid that one has to suspect that they are negotiating with some purchasers to persuade them to agree to back-dating the relevant documentation - just to make the 2005 total look better. Seems a bit pointless.

You don't REALLY believe that, do you NAV20??
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atmx2000
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:19 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 17):
Anyway, the reason why it takes Airbus longer to tally than Boeing should be obvious to all. Us Europeans, and especially the French ones, have only just started to make their way back to work after the Christmas holiday, and there's lots to do - check our email, discuss all the football results, talk about which presents we really hated. On top of that, some pesky manager wants a report about plane sales figures. By next Friday! Zut alors!

Of course in that case there shouldn't be any last minute orders to book as there was no one to take them.
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leelaw
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:27 am

Reuters has published a more comprehensive article:

"Boeing looks set to trump Airbus in 2005 orders"

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/news...C_0_UK-TRANSPORT-AIRBUS-BOEING.xml
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NAV20
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:30 am

I've seen it done in other situations, Toulouse; though never had occasion to do it myself. There is always a gap between terms being agreed and documentation being drawn up - all it would need is a clause saying that the contract evidenced an 'agreement to agree' reached last calendar year, and Airbus could count it (for publicity purposes) as a 2005 order if they chose. The contract would still take legal effect from the date of signing, i.e. this year, so the legalities would not be affected.

Coming to prefer Scrimbl's holiday point, though - who wants to spend hours counting up all those boring documents at this time of year?
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astuteman
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:30 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 7):
I'm afraid that one has to suspect that they are negotiating with some purchasers to persuade them to agree to back-dating the relevant documentation - just to make the 2005 total look better.

A frankly ridiculous statement if ever I heard one

Quoting N79969 (Reply 5):
They would have looked better if they had been silent or very simply acknowledged the fact that they had a great year with no mention of Boeing.



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 11):
They would have been better just saying they had a record year and the largest backorder they have ever had. Apple doesn't compare their sales to MS and their stock is going through the roof.

Why? The questioner will have inevitably drawn out comparisons with Boeing, who have declared their figures much earlier. Why is "We'll be there or thereabouts - wait for the 17th Jan" such an issue? We're all delighted to spend (waste?) our time making such comparisons.
Imagine the response on here if Ohler had said "Airbus had a great year. Order Numbers? - I've NO COMMENT". The trolls would have been all over it like a rash.  Yeah sure

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 9):
The "dialogue" between the OEMs is beginning to resemble meanspirited candidates in a political campaign, rather than business competitors in a marketplace.

The only meanspirited thing I see here is that people don't have the grace to recognise that it's been an incredible year for Airbus orders as well, in the same way we all graciously acknowledged that it had been for Boeing.

Quoting N1786b (Reply 14):
Anyhow congratulations to the entire industry for a great 2005!

With one (one!) exception. Thanks N1786b.

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 10):
I suspect under European law that would actually be illegal. But you couldn't resist could you?



Quoting N1786b (Reply 14):
Not to start a war, but who will take them to court if they do? Shareholders

Not being funny, but a "spokesperson" won't announce the order figures at an ad-hoc interview. In the same way that Mulally announced the Boeing Figures, Humbert will announce the Airbus figures at a pre-arranged venue.
Don't ask my why it takes to the 17th to do so, but this frequently occurs in BAE Systems, where they will have a programme of briefing that leads up to the whole workforce being briefed at exactly the same time as the information is released to the press.

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 13):
Its just business and they all behave differently.

Sums it up, I suspect.
 
Glom
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:44 am

Airbus has a long way to go with order transparency. Boeing has a comprehensive order list available on their website updated regularly and easy to use. It's far superior for keeping track of things.

Can someone weight these orders in terms of payload? That would be a more accurate comparison, since we don't consider 1 A320 equal to 1 A380.

Note the language. The orders are "similar". I think whatever new orders they reveal, it won't close the gap completely else they would be saying they won.
 
leelaw
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:47 am

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 22):

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 9):
The "dialogue" between the OEMs is beginning to resemble meanspirited candidates in a political campaign, rather than business competitors in a marketplace.

The only meanspirited thing I see here is that people don't have the grace to recognise that it's been an incredible year for Airbus orders as well, in the same way we all graciously acknowledged that it had been for Boeing.

I'm not sure I understand your point, but I'll stand behind my statement that the OEMs are rapidly adopting the P.R./spin strategies of politicians/political candidates.
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RichardPrice
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:52 am

Quoting Glom (Reply 23):
Airbus has a long way to go with order transparency. Boeing has a comprehensive order list available on their website updated regularly and easy to use. It's far superior for keeping track of things.

Boeing has public shareholders, Airbus doesnt. Big difference there. Airbus' shareholders get private reports on a weekly basis on current developments, so really thats all they are required to do. Anything on Airbus' website is purely extra.
 
Areopagus
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:01 am

Why does it matter whether the contract was signed in December or January? If a big order couldn't put Airbus over the top for 2005 bragging rights, it may as well be used to get a head start for 2006 bragging rights.

But what really counts is backlog and deliveries, which are not much affected whether the signature goes on on December 31 or January 1.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:07 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 24):
I'm not sure I understand your point

I think he's referring to the fact that many of the clear Airbus fans here gave genuine congratulations to Boeing in this thread Boeing: 1002 Net Orders For 2005 but some of the "more vociferous" Boeing fans don't seem able to do the same here. Maybe when Airbus officially announces?

I agree with your point though. The industry wouldn't hurt for some better manners. I thought maybe things were improving at Paris when the top execs visited each other's planes. I guess part of the problem is that if top sales execs were diplomats, they probably wouldn't be very good sales people.

It would probably also help if folks here didn't take things quite so seriously and treat every minor exaggeration by a salesman as a declaration of war. But that would be asking way too much! sarcastic 
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boeing767-300
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:10 am

Lets not take away from the fact that Airbus has had a great year as well. What they won't be happy about is the high proportion of widebodies in Boeings total.

I believe the 150 odd 777s over the 15 A340s is more indicative of what has happened in 2005 rather than counting units so to speak.

My  twocents  worth
 
Tifoso
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:22 am

Quoting Glom (Reply 23):

Note the language. The orders are "similar". I think whatever new orders they reveal, it won't close the gap completely else they would be saying they won.

Don't think it is right to arrive at that conclusion; Airbus may well have narrowly defeated Boeing. The spokesperson may well be building up suspense.  Wink

That being said, we are close to 2000 orders for 2005 (not even counting the regional jet manufacturers), and that is a staggering number. It has been an absolutely fantastic year for both Boeing and Airbus.  bigthumbsup 
 
A319XFW
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:30 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 17):
Anyway, the reason why it takes Airbus longer to tally than Boeing should be obvious to all. Us Europeans, and especially the French ones, have only just started to make their way back to work after the Christmas holiday, and there's lots to do - check our email, discuss all the football results, talk about which presents we really hated. On top of that, some pesky manager wants a report about plane sales figures. By next Friday! Zut alors!

Speak for yourself.. Airbus Hamburg was working over the period around Christmas and New Years.....

Quoting Areopagus (Reply 26):
Why does it matter whether the contract was signed in December or January? If a big order couldn't put Airbus over the top for 2005 bragging rights, it may as well be used to get a head start for 2006 bragging rights.

But what really counts is backlog and deliveries, which are not much affected whether the signature goes on on December 31 or January 1.

 checkmark  Couldn't have said it better! I wonder what would happen if Airbus would do orders and deliveries by the tax year (April to April)... that'll screw with some minds here on A.net! Big grin

In any case, the orders we saw last year won't be repeated this year.... Probably go back down to more sane levels of around 400 each....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4586126.stm
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:39 am

The question I have is - whats 2006 going to be like? With 2005 orders nearly tripling recent years orders, is it going to just be a statistical anomoly, are we going to see another 350 order year, or will this trend continue?
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:40 am

Quoting Kalakaua (Thread starter):
"In terms of aircraft order intake, Airbus will be in a similar ballpark to its competitor," he said.

Yea, if they're talking about Embraer or Bombardier. Yet another reason I can't stand Airbus the company. The airplanes though,  thumbsup 
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
moparman
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:43 am

Let me see if I understand this thread correctly:

This entire thread is based on fact that Airbus by their own admission does not know how many orders they have. Now that is truely sad. It is sad in another fashion also. All these folks here who roll their eyes at A. vs B. threads - yet are spinning everything possible, like in this thread, to cook the books so they can say that Airbus beats Boeing in orders. Sad and Childish - not to mention foolish

If Airbus beats Boeing in orders. Hey look: Congratulations to Airbus

If Boeing beats Airbus in orders. Hey look: Congratulations to Boeing

What is going on here though: Oh My GOD - Boeing is beating Airbus in orders. NO!!! say it isn't so. Everyone that orders from Boeing is stupid and misguided. AIRBUS AIRBUS AIRBUS (with fingers firmly in the ears).

People this whole thing is sad: Grow up!

[Edited 2006-01-06 19:46:53]
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scbriml
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:46 am

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 32):
Yea, if they're talking about Embraer or Bombardier. Yet another reason I can't stand Airbus the company.

 confused  What do you mean?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
halls120
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:49 am

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 22):
A frankly ridiculous statement if ever I heard one

Perhaps it is. But what fuels comments like these is the mystifying delay in releasing the figure. Come on, just how difficult is it to count your orders?

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 22):
Not being funny, but a "spokesperson" won't announce the order figures at an ad-hoc interview. In the same way that Mulally announced the Boeing Figures, Humbert will announce the Airbus figures at a pre-arranged venue.

So why not just post a running tally on the Airbus website the way Boeing does? Is Airbus that afraid of transparency?

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 24):
Boeing has public shareholders, Airbus doesnt. Big difference there. Airbus' shareholders get private reports on a weekly basis on current developments, so really thats all they are required to do. Anything on Airbus' website is purely extra

Fine. But it doesn't explain their fear of transparency.

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 27):
I think he's referring to the fact that many of the clear Airbus fans here gave genuine congratulations to Boeing in this thread Boeing: 1002 Net Orders For 2005 but some of the "more vociferous" Boeing fans don't seem able to do the same here. Maybe when Airbus officially announces?

What I've never understood on this board is why people seem to be so hung up on who is number 1. Boeing was for years, then Airbus topped them. So what? Why does it seem to matter to people on this board?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
N79969
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:56 am

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 22):
Why? The questioner will have inevitably drawn out comparisons with Boeing, who have declared their figures much earlier. Why is "We'll be there or thereabouts - wait for the 17th Jan" such an issue? We're all delighted to spend (waste?) our time making such comparisons.
Imagine the response on here if Ohler had said "Airbus had a great year. Order Numbers? - I've NO COMMENT". The trolls would have been all over it like a rash. Yeah sure

Let me restate my point: They should have said, "we receive 9xx orders and had an outstanding year." By trying to downplay Boeing's success and perhaps exaggerate their own, it comes off as petty. Selling 900 jets in year is a great thing....why risk tarring a good story by saying too much?
 
leelaw
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:58 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 35):
Quoting Leelaw (Reply 24):
Boeing has public shareholders, Airbus doesnt. Big difference there. Airbus' shareholders get private reports on a weekly basis on current developments, so really thats all they are required to do. Anything on Airbus' website is purely extra

Just for the record, that's RichardPrice's quote from his Reply #25, not mine.
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N328KF
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:58 am

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 22):
The only meanspirited thing I see here is that people don't have the grace to recognise that it's been an incredible year for Airbus orders as well, in the same way we all graciously acknowledged that it had been for Boeing.

I am not mean-spirited. I am a Boeing shareholder, and thus it is in my financial interest for Boeing to perform better than Airbus.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:06 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 35):
Fine. But it doesn't explain their fear of transparency.

Whoever said they have a fear of transparency? They have an order sheet on their website that is updated on a regular basis - I think thats good enough for the general public to which they owe no financial standing or relationship

Airbus is out to make money for EADS and BAe, that is their sole requirement in existing. You can be 100% reassured that 'pandering to the amateur aviation enthusiast that likes to hang around on forums and talk about aircraft' is not even a speck on their radar, and most certainly isnt an entry in their manifesto, highlighted in big red ink and bold text.

As I said before, Boeing and Airbus are businesses AND THEY WORK DIFFERENTLY. Thank god that they do, because it would be a boring world otherwise.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:07 am

Hey, congrats to Airbus if they had a record year, too.  Smile I've flown on their planes and they seem solid, and although I like Boeing more than Airbus, there's no harm in recognizing the achievements of the competitor of one's favorite.

Again, Airbus, good job.  Smile
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BoomBoom
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:17 am

This is just typical Airbus withholding information and offering spin. Similar to:
"The A380 fuel burn exceeds expeditions."
"The A380 is within 1% of it weight target."
"The A380 breakeven point is upwards of 300"
"Airbus plans to deliver 'over 400' planes in 2006."
"The A340 dispatch rate is equal to the 777."

I guess all these statements are "close enough for government work."
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garpd
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:19 am

Quoting Kalakaua (Thread starter):

Spokesman Rainer Ohler said the final tallies would be close, after a surge of business in December. "In terms of aircraft order intake, Airbus will be in a similar ballpark to its competitor," he said.

read: "We're scrambling to pen more orders down for the 2005 total"
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BoomBoom
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:24 am

Quoting GARPD (Reply 42):
"We're scrambling to pen more orders down for the 2005 total"

Maybe this is all taking place in a parallel universe where it's still 2005.
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Slovacek747
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:29 am

They may be in negotiation with airlines and have quite a few commitments but I'm pretty sure their total official orders dont come close to Boeing's numbers. The executives spin about every announcement that comes out. Would be great if they could be honest once in a while...

Slovacek747
 
A319XFW
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:29 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 41):
"The A380 breakeven point is upwards of 300"
"Airbus plans to deliver 'over 400' planes in 2006."

What's spin on these two?
First it was said that the breakeven point was 250ish and now it's been admitted that it has gone up.
Well seeing as around 370 were delivered last year and production rates are going up, 400 seems achievable.
Seeing as the LR line is around 6-7 per month (going to 8) and A320 28ish and then add about 8-10 A300's and 2 A380's....

That would be around 420 deliveries......

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 41):
"The A340 dispatch rate is equal to the 777."

Have you got a reference for that? As I would think that this isn't the case. Well don't know about the A340 basics, but the A350 stretch did have problems which are still being worked on.

EDIT: Strictly speaking the tax year doesn't finish till the end of March Big grin

[Edited 2006-01-06 20:30:43]
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:36 am

I find this comment alarming:

The European manufacturer won't announce its final tally until mid-month, but it cannot match Boeing.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...echnology/2002723354_boeing06.html

How does the author know this? It's a pretty bold statement, and might come back to make them look silly.
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:40 am

Quoting GARPD (Reply 42):
Quoting Kalakaua (Thread starter):

Spokesman Rainer Ohler said the final tallies would be close, after a surge of business in December. "In terms of aircraft order intake, Airbus will be in a similar ballpark to its competitor," he said.

read: "We're scrambling to pen more orders down for the 2005 total"

Really? I read it as:

Quote:

Spokesman Rainer Ohler said the final tallies would be close, after a surge of business in December. "In terms of aircraft order intake, Airbus will be in a similar ballpark to its competitor," he said.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Look guys, Boeing got its final tally out before Airbus. Thats all. You have absolutely no proof of any 'post dating' going on so theres really no need to make those sort of accusations. You have no idea of the internal mechanisms each company uses to bring end of year tallies to a final figure, so stop second guessing as to why Airbus havent released theirs yet.

By and large both companies are coming in with massive order counts that far exceed previous years.

Well done Boeing for a fantastic year, I hope that after a great year of orders that the airline industry doesnt suddenly dry up with future orders in the short term.
 
kalakaua
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:49 am

[Spokesman Ohler] declined to give the full-year figure or say whether it fell short of Chicago-based Boeing's total, but added:

"December is always a busy month in our industry."
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
BoomBoom
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RE: Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing

Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:51 am

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 45):
Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 41):
"The A380 breakeven point is upwards of 300"
"Airbus plans to deliver 'over 400' planes in 2006."

What's spin on these two?

The problem with the breakeven numbers is that while one executive was claiming upwards of 300, another was sticking to 250. Upwards of 300 could be 399?

On the over 400 planes in 2006, contrast it to Boeing which gives a actual number instead of something vague.

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 45):
Have you got a reference for that? As I would think that this isn't the case. Well don't know about the A340 basics, but the A350 stretch did have problems which are still being worked on.

See: RE: Emirates Boss Clark Talks About 772LR And A345 (by EWROwznj00 Dec 31 2005 in Civil Aviation)#ID2522436 at post #101.
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...