JeffB
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Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:23 am

Is there any chance that AS will start a hub on the east coast of the US? Wouldn't airports like IAD or PIT would seem like good places to start? I know that LAX is a mini-hub for AS.. and DCA is getting some flights. But why not make a main hub to work the east side of the country with SEA/LAX working the west?

Why would this be a bad idea for Alaska Airlines?


I think this was talked about some time ago. However, the field was much diffrent.

Thoughts?
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:42 am

An east cost hub/focus city is probably not going to happen for AS. If anything, I can see them adding a focus city in the west (BOI? SLC?) but their strategy is to be conservative and feed their west coast/Pacific Northwest operation.

As far as expansion goes, look to see them in Hawaii and adding additional east coast points from SEA/PDX and maybe some addtional seasonal service from Alaska to the lower 48. However AS has a well-utilized fleet and Menzies keeps taking planes off-line with their bumps and mishaps. Regardless, they will need more aircraft before the expand anywhere. But I do not see them adding any sort of operation east of the Rockies that isn't a spoke from SEA/PDX/ANC.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:45 am

AS's strength is all the codeshares they have with everyone and their grandmother, which feeds their West Coast and Alaska operations.

AS' long-haul domestic flights are to hubs for CO and AA (BOS, MIA, DFW, EWR) and some selected non-stop routes with no codeshare competition (SEA-IAD/DCA).

If AS were to start an East Coast hub, they would risk a backlash from AA (who is already miffed AS now flies SEA-DFW against them) and CO. Also the sheer capital costs of starting new routes would hurt them, as they are already stretched pretty thin in many of their current ops.
 
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STT757
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:47 am

AS is a West Coast Airline, they should stick with what is working instead of trying to suceed where others (US, FLYI etc) have failed.
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roseflyer
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:52 am

AS is a very conservative airline. They have slowly grown since the 80s. They took the exact opposite track of HP. When America West boomed in the 80s it wanted to do amazing things like fly international and have a hub in the east. All that was successful in doing was bringing the airline into bankruptcy. The airline fortunately made a recovery and is now expansing into the east in a totally different way by merging/taking over another airline.

Alaska is not overzealous. It is slowly expanding, but relying on established routes and slowly building in small steps. LAX is a result of the success of the Mexican Riviera flights which were a key part to expansion in the 90s. In more recent years, transcontinental flights have been added slowly. AS looks like it will be looking into Hawaii and maybe more of Mexico and our neighbors to the south.

Opening up a hub in the east would be suicide. We have all seen from America West's failed Columbus hub and Independence Air's demise that it is a difficult thing to accomplish. For every success story like Airtran and jetBlue, there are more failures like ATA, Midway, America West's Columbus hub, Independence Air, Vanguard, and more. Going to the east coast is far riskier than the conservative management at AS is suited for. Although it would be nice to be able to see the eskimo expand its presence across the country, it won't be happening.

[Edited 2006-01-06 19:00:50]
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CentPIT
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:38 am

Quoting JeffB (Thread starter):
Wouldn't airports like IAD or PIT would seem like good places to start? I know that LAX is a mini-hub for AS.. and DCA is getting some flights. But why not make a main hub to work the east side of the country with SEA/LAX working the west?

Hopefully they will begin a PIT-SEA flight soon now that US dropped the route. I flew that route many times with US and it was always full.
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markabcan
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:43 am

It would make more sense to continue to expand in the west, with more transcontinental to the east. They are well known and have a reputation in the west! An eastern hub would also be looked down upon by many of its code sharing partners.
 
Lemurs
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:45 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 5):
Hopefully they will begin a PIT-SEA flight soon now that US dropped the route. I flew that route many times with US and it was always full.

The problem in PIT is that they'd need someone to partner with. This is how they operate most of their transcons now, with the help of partner employees on the ground. Of course this is AS, so they could always just get chummy with someone else. They're like the popular girl in school: Everyone wants to get into their pants (read:customers) regardless of who else has been there before.  Smile
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OzarkD9S
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Sat Jan 07, 2006 8:12 am

Maybe AA should turn STL over to AS and keep the AA code on AS flights out of there.

Yeah, right.
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
sflaflight
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:22 am

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 8):
Maybe AA should turn STL over to AS and keep the AA code on AS flights out of there.

Yeah, right.

Actually, why wouldn't that be such a bad idea. It would be central in the US, yet not east coast. Besides, there really is not other big western city open that already isn't a hub.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:44 am

Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 9):
Besides, there really is not other big western city open that already isn't a hub.

...I can think of one, actually, a couple.
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sflaflight
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Sat Jan 07, 2006 10:00 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 10):
...I can think of one, actually, a couple.

Humm! Albuquerque maybe. Remember, I'm trying not to think of a coastal CA city or something close to a current Hub or Focus city. Seriously, I really can't. Is Kansas City (YX hub, no?), Oh, wait Okalhoma City maybe! Any others.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Sat Jan 07, 2006 10:09 am

I can see Horizon building up BOI as a small focus city. It could serve as an additional gateway from the southwest/Pacific Coast to Montana, Idaho and Eastern Washington. However, as you can imagine, the O&D would be limited.

Aside from that, I don't expect to AS making any new hubs/focus cities anytime soon. In fact they have reduced mainline ops at PDX. LAX is often discussed on these boards as a potential site for increasing operations eastward, but given the competition at LAX it would be foolish for AS to make that kind of an expansion. They operate the sole LAXDCA flight due to winning the beyond-perimeter authority from TWA after AA acquired them. However if that particular market were to open up expect to see AS cede LAXDCA to UA or AA.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Sat Jan 07, 2006 10:16 am

Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 11):
I'm trying not to think of a coastal CA city or something close to a current Hub or Focus city. Seriously, I really can't. Is Kansas City (YX hub, no?), Oh, wait Okalhoma City maybe! Any others.

*slap*  mad 
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sflaflight
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:41 am

ConcordeBoy

Duh!!!!!  Embarrassment OK OK OK you got me.  ashamed  It was one of my moments. At the risk of offending anybody, - my hair is a certain color, only dirty. I can't believe it. Of course, but how ironic could it be to have Alaska hubed in one of Americas hottest and most humid city. Actually, would be great. But being a Miami-an, to me your airport would be considered an east coast hub. By the way, that is a compliment. So how can we start the petition bring Alaska to MSY now!!!!!  scratchchin   bouncy 
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:45 pm

Alaska Airlines having a hub in one of Americas hottest and wickedly humid cities would be great irony. I love it.

That eskimo would look rediulously funny on the tails of all those planes if MSY was a hub for alaska airlines

The eskimos would melt in New Orleans. what about the health risks?
 
sflaflight
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:18 pm

Quoting Slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 15):
That eskimo would look rediulously funny on the tails of all those planes if MSY was a hub for alaska airlines

Maybe the planes based at MSY could still have an Eskimo, but in a Mardi Gras or Carnival outfit instead of a Parka. We could beed him up and paint his face. WOuld definately give F9 a run for their money on most original paint scheme. Any other ideas?

 rotfl 
 
COERJ145
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:31 pm

What if they merged with CO? AS with its high west coast presence, and CO in the east/midwest. The routes would complement each other well. If CO dropped their 735's and AS dropped the MD80s the fleets would go together well(733/734/73G/738/739). AS would would have to keep a few 732's for its AK routes.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:20 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 4):
AS looks like it will be looking into Hawaii and maybe more of Mexico and our neighbors to the south.

So a possible expansion into Central America could be on the table as well, right? Even though they'd have to compete against CO and AA, who dominate that market out of the US. But maybe after UA dropping LAX-GUA-SJO, and AA only flying seasonal service to SJO out of LAX (and their year round service out of MIA and DFW), AS could take over those flights if they get the rights. Those 737NGs could make the distance all the way.
 
CentPIT
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:24 am

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 7):
The problem in PIT is that they'd need someone to partner with. This is how they operate most of their transcons now, with the help of partner employees on the ground. Of course this is AS, so they could always just get chummy with someone else. They're like the popular girl in school: Everyone wants to get into their pants (read:customers) regardless of who else has been there before.

If Alaska really wanted to operate the route then they could find a partner. Who do they partner with at IAD and EWR? I am sure that one of those carriers are in Pittsburgh. I do understand what you are saying however.

[Edited 2006-01-07 23:43:08]

[Edited 2006-01-07 23:43:41]
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Chugach
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:28 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 19):
Who do they partner with at IAD and EWR?

They have a codeshare/FF agreement with CO, which I would suspect results in a fair amount of feed from EWR. I think CO also does their ground-handling at DFW, as AA got its panties in a wad when they started SEA-DFW. Which is strange, as AA DOES do their ground handling at ORD, seemingly without issue.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:43 am

Quoting Slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 15):
what about the health risks?

...of?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
willbdsp
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:58 am

AA used to handle the ground ops for both TZ and HP (premerger). I'm sure they could handle AS ops in PIT.
 
aa757first
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:05 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 4):
Vanguard

Wasn't Vanguard MCI based? That would put them in the Mid West, not the East Coast.

AAndrew
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:24 am

Quoting Chugach (Reply 20):
AA got its panties in a wad when they started SEA-DFW.

I would think they'd be more ticked off about AS putting up three daily flights to ORD vs AA's four than two to DFW vs AA's nine. In any case, I don't think AS has much to gain with an east coast hub. They've been successful focusing on careful growth on the west coast, and as has been pointed out, they already get good east coast feed by codesharing with almost every legacy in the country. It'll be interesting to see if they expand their east coast non-stop service when the new 738s start coming in this year.
 
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juanchito
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:43 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 18):
So a possible expansion into Central America could be on the table as well, right? Even though they'd have to compete against CO and AA, who dominate that market out of the US. But maybe after UA dropping LAX-GUA-SJO, and AA only flying seasonal service to SJO out of LAX (and their year round service out of MIA and DFW), AS could take over those flights if they get the rights. Those 737NGs could make the distance all the way.

UAL dropped the SJO leg not GUA

It would be nice to see AS here in Guatemala

juanchito
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suv
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:58 pm

[quote=BigGSFO,reply=12]I can see Horizon building up BOI as a small focus city. It could serve as an additional gateway from the southwest/Pacific Coast to Montana, Idaho and Eastern Washington. However, as you can imagine, the O&D would be limited.

It's been done in the past and didnt' work.

Suv
 
Blackhawk144
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:18 pm

Quoting Suv (Reply 26):
It's been done in the past and didnt' work.

Suv

Yes, but Boise has grown tremendously since then.

Anthony
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airstatdfw
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RE: Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?

Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:35 pm

Quoting Chugach (Reply 20):
I think CO also does their ground-handling at DFW,

They codeshare with DL on the DFW-SEA and Service Air does there ground handling. I do see a lot of people get off the plane and get on skylink and go over and get on an AA flight out of DFW.

AirStatDFW

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