Concorde001
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Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:55 am

BA will shortly announce a complete overhaul of BA CitiExpress, which operates flights to Europe from Birmingham, Manchester, Bristol and Edinburgh.
The full article is available below, but to sum up:
*British Airways will next week launch a major challenge to the no-frills carriers with a radical overhaul of its regional network, which will see fares to Europe slashed to as little as £25 one-way.

*In a significant strategic move by new chief executive Willie Walsh, the airline will rebrand its loss-making BA CitiExpress network, flying from 14 UK regional airports, and introduce a single-class cabin throughout the aircraft.

*The Club Europe cabin for business travellers will be axed on all short-haul European flights to and from BA's regional airports. Only European flights to and from Heathrow and Gatwick will retain the more upmarket Club Europe cabin. BA will continue serving food on all flights.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/mai...t=/money/2006/01/07/ixcitytop.html

So what do you make of it? Single class operation with free food still being served?
 
acelanzarote
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 1:13 am

Wish BA had kept the A319's at BHX and the 737's at MAN, I hated
flying on the 146's when I lived in the UK. Anyway with some of the
146's going to Swiss how will they cover the gap?
Good Luck to BA anyway!

cheers
AceLanzarote
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GLAGAZ
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 1:15 am

A certain Mr. Kirk mentioned BACX starting GLA-CDG,FRA and AMS. But somehow I don't think I believe him =)

Gaz
Neutrality means that u don't really care cos the struggle goes on even when ur not there, blind and unaware
 
Capital146
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:19 am

In my opinion, a carrier operating a mix of Dash8's/ERJ145's/RJ100's will still not be able to compete in operational costs to the LCC's which operate simplified and more cost-effective fleets.

Lower fares may well attract more bums on seats, but if the overheads are still high then where will the profits come from?

For a similar price I think many people would choose the reassurance of BA over a Lo-co, but how is this going to make money for BA?
Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
 
CKT789
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:25 am

I thought the Dash 8's were being phased out?
 
gkirk
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:26 am

Quoting GLAGAZ (Reply 2):
A certain Mr. Kirk mentioned BACX starting GLA-CDG,FRA and AMS. But somehow I don't think I believe him =)

 Wink
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Summa767
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:27 am

I think that this is a good strategy. Put more seats on the planes by axing club, and hopefully the losses will turn into profits (however modest).

Lower fares to increase the volume, but I imagine that only for off peak.
Great that they keep the food service. That will be a distinguishing factor.
 
Capital146
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:42 am

Quoting CKT789 (Reply 4):
I thought the Dash 8's were being phased out?

I understand that the Dash 8's have had their leases extended, so will be around for a while yet.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 6):
I think that this is a good strategy. Put more seats on the planes by axing club, and hopefully the losses will turn into profits (however modest).

But if the overheads are still high (mixed, LCC-unfriendly fleet, no staff cutbacks) I still don't see the full picture on how the operation will become profitable. If they are losing a reported £30M per year with CitiExpress, then it is going to take a huge upturn in passenger numbers to offset this, together with having to operate a fleet which is not suited to low-cost operations, plus the loss of premium passengers. I want it to work, but I just can't see how it adds up with the information provided so far.
Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:52 am

Lets wait for the announcement before we comment too much here. Sounds like BA is moving in the right direction with CitiExpress, and it's got to be better than any move which would threaten the rump of the regional operation. Although the Telegraph article doesn't mention it maybe something will be announced about fleet simplification. I'm sure Walsh, who saw the introduction of the A320s at EI and a move to a single class operation there, might look at simplfying the fleet around two types, say the ERJ-145s and something like the ERJ-170 or ERJ-190.

Two things I'll be interested to see when we get the full announcement. Firstly, what will happen to LCY, where there must surely be a demand for Club Europe, and which is operated by CitiExpress? Secondly, is GB Airways to maintain Club Europe on its routes from MAN with the A320s, or will it follow the CitiExpress lead and only offer Euro Traveller?
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
GSM763
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:56 am

It seems a good idea but as we saw with Independence Air RJs have high seat per mile costs. There are also legacy factors to be taken into account. BA is swamped by union agreements made decades ago which mean it could never cut it's costs to that of the likes of easyjet without firing every staff member and starting again.
 
mhodgson
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:58 am

Glad to see food will remain. Petty as it sounds, it sets BA abive the competitors, and is why I choose BA over lo-co's.

Wonder what will happen to the Terraces lounge at MAN?
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:00 am

Terraces lounge would still be available for passengers on the MAN-JFK flight (Plus AA's MAN-ORD), as well as passengers travelling down to LHR or LGW to connect onto Club and First flights. Add on the Gold and Silver Executive Club members and still a use for the lounge.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
gayrugbyman
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:07 am

And dont forget from April, BA will be shring their termoinal at MAN with BD longhaul, European and all BMIBaby services!
 
DavidT
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 10):
Wonder what will happen to the Terraces lounge at MAN?

I hope nothing, its fantastic  Sad

Damn. I can't believe CE is being axed. How are businessmen meant to fly from MAN to the continent and collect BA miles without having to go through Hellthrow?  Sad
 
gayrugbyman
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:26 am

Forget your miles and go with:

LH, AF, KL, OK, SN, LX, AZ, SK...! Give BA the big FO!! I shan;t be using them for much if they scrap Club Europe, as it is I pay nearly £300 for an economy return to Belfast, and I was disgusted to receive no hot drinks and a Special K cereal bar last week on an early flight! Disgusting!
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:29 am

Quoting GayrugbyMAN (Reply 14):
Forget your miles and go with:

LH, AF, KL, OK, SN, LX, AZ, SK...! Give BA the big FO!! I shan;t be using them for much if they scrap Club Europe, as it is I pay nearly £300 for an economy return to Belfast, and I was disgusted to receive no hot drinks and a Special K cereal bar last week on an early flight! Disgusting!

Fly Jet2 then and buy your cereal bar.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
Capital146
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:35 am

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 15):
Fly Jet2 then and buy your cereal bar.

Well, technically speaking, it's FlyBe that offers the competition on MAN-BHD.  Wink
Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
 
trekster
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:53 am

The removal of the J cabin aint that bad. I had the best seat on the plane when i flew Y class MAN FRA good leg room, exit row. Only diff from the 2 cabins is the food so its no real loss.
Where does the time go???
 
rdwootty
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:05 am

BHX has a great terraces lounge now to be closed?OR let the airport run it like MAN at terminal 2?? My clients like to pay for the extra baggage and large carry on not just the seats and meals..and flexibility so who will take it over Monarch
 
TheSorcerer
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:14 am

Quoting DavidT (Reply 13):
Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 10):
Wonder what will happen to the Terraces lounge at MAN?

I hope nothing, its fantastic

Yup, i had my pockets stuffed full with biscuits and cans of coke when i walked out last time  Big grin.
Dominic
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Eurohub
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:04 am

I think this sounds like a good move. Better fares from BHX to Europe would encourage me to fly BA much more often than my travel budget allows at their current fares.

In my experience (BHX-STR), the Club Europe cabin is invariably empty and more often than not, Y loads seem to struggle to reach 50%. I don't know whether this is representative of the other BHX routes, of course.
Forget A vs B - Give me E or BAe any day of the week!
 
BestWestern
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:48 am

Expect BA regional to look exactly like what Aer Lingus does today - I expect to see a major change in fleet, routes and airports.

Quoting GayrugbyMAN (Reply 14):
as it is I pay nearly £300 for an economy return to Belfast

More fool you - book early, or fly from Liverpool.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
fbgdavidson
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 9:43 am

Can't see the sense in scrapping CE. The extra revenue gained from even a handful of seats with minimal extra operating cost for the airline would surely make it wortwhile keeping.

After all the lounges will surely remain in place both at the UK end and European, as will check-in desks etc.
"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
 
mhodgson
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 9:12 pm

Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 22):
Can't see the sense in scrapping CE. The extra revenue gained from even a handful of seats with minimal extra operating cost for the airline would surely make it wortwhile keeping.

I'd have thought so, too. Considering the fares in CE for MAN-DUS were more than twice what I paid in Y, when all you get extra on the flight is a little more food! OK, so you get Terraces access as well, but as the lounge is open anyway it costs BA no more for an extra passenger other than a few coffee's, biscuits and snacks.
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Concorde001
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 9:16 pm

Rumour on PPRUNE that aicraft operating for BA CitiExpress will get a new livery!
Apparently all staff have been given a postcard from the Managing Director which has a picture of a gift-wrapped BAe145 with the words "all will be revealed".
New name and new livery on the way I think.
 
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:14 pm

Quoting Concorde001 (Reply 24):
BAe145 with the words "all will be revealed".
New name and new livery on the way I think.

New planes too, by the sound of it. Can't wait to see a BAe 145!
 
mhodgson
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The

Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:20 pm

Quoting Concorde001 (Reply 24):
BAe145

ERJ-145 or BAe-146?  Silly
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Concorde001
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:37 pm

Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 26):

Ooops! Getting carried away by the excitement that is BA CitiExpress!  Wink
 
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PM
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:53 pm

Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 26):
ERJ-145 or BAe-146?

Tu-144? An-148? HS-141?!
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:03 am

Quoting Concorde001 (Reply 24):
Rumour on PPRUNE that aicraft operating for BA CitiExpress will get a new livery!
Apparently all staff have been given a postcard from the Managing Director which has a picture of a gift-wrapped BAe145 with the words "all will be revealed".
New name and new livery on the way I think.

Why a new livery and name? Could simply be a way of letting the staff know that all will be revealed about the simplification of the CitiExpress operation.

As for removing Club, maybe that is the point that on board all you get is better food. At least on LHR and LGW the seats are made wider so you get more room, and the areas of the cabins where Club is offered generally offer slightly more leg room.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
vv701
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:19 am

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 8):
Firstly, what will happen to LCY, where there must surely be a demand for Club Europe, and which is operated by CitiExpress?

I believe that at least originally only five of the RJ100s were designated to operate from LCY, namely G-CFAA, 'AB, 'AE, 'AF and 'AH. I do not know if this was for commercial, technical or some other reason. But all these aircraft except 'AA are scheduled to be operating for Swiss International by the time the summer timetables come in. Is it possible that some RJ100s will be transferred to the BA Main Fleet to operate the LCY services? If so how many aircraft would be needed to meet the current schedules?
 
Concorde001
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:24 am

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 29):
Why a new livery and name? Could simply be a way of letting the staff know that all will be revealed about the simplification of the CitiExpress operation

You might be right - but I remember in Nov someone published on PPRUNE certain company names that had been registered in Birmingham. There were several, for example;
BA Red
BA Europe
etc etc... which would suggest a rebranding exercise.
Who knows - we will know fore sure this week!
 
aerokiwi
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:34 am

I would expect the ERJ145s to depart and be replaced with D8-400s, which are proving to be excellent in FlyBE ops and appear well suited to the low cost model.

The E145s are just too inefficient in the high cost fuel market today, while the 146 is a turkey in reliability, maintenance and costs regards. I'd expect the latter to be replaced possiby by 733s to provide lower costs per seat and enabling BA to offer bulk lower fares on citiexpress routes. Seems to be the way to grow the market these days and if you're going low cost, well, you may as well do it properly.

73Gs and A319s are probably too much plane for the routes that need to be operated and lease rates for 733s are significantly lower as well as the aircraft being in greater availability.

So if there is a fleet change, I'd pick a D84/733 combination.
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:10 am

As a Bristol resident I welcome this move. EZY have a very strong footing at BRS and they also seem to be expanding into some of the business destinations currently served by CitiExpress (CDG is on the cards). BA have remained relatively competitive but even a relatively small reduction in prices would do wonders for business in my opinion.
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:13 am

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 32):
So if there is a fleet change, I'd pick a D84/733 combination.

Unfortunately, that makes sense. Flybe have indeed had success with their Dash 8s and the ERJ145s must cost a fortune. I just hope they don't disappear too soon...
 
Orion737
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:04 pm

BA Citiexpress already offers a far worse product that BA mainline, so heaven knows what this latest reincarnation will bring.

I used to fly MAN-NCE with some regularity and if you get one of the 3-3 config 146s that BA Citiexpress flew then you may as well be on a charter configured aircraft. Also the food service is far less than what one would get on BA mainlne.

A miniscule sandwich and a matchbox size piece of Genoa cake was the norm. The reason I was told was less room and insufficient galleys on the 146.

I mean you get a hot breakfast or a all day deli bag on the MAN-LGW flight yet 2 hour+ citiexpress flights have always offered a lesser product.
 
ba757
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:05 pm

Quoting CKT789 (Reply 4):
I thought the Dash 8's were being phased out?

I thought the DH8 was an incredibly cheap aircraft to operate, fuel efficient etc...

I read that on here somewhere, if thats true, why would any airline want to get rid of it?

Adam
 
Yak97
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:13 pm

I don't think that you would see Dash8-400Q's in BA service. Their whole plan seems to be to get rid of propellor aircraft, as not presenting the right "image".

The ERJ145 type aircraft is acceptable to BA as its cheaper to operate than 146/737 on thinner routes, while still being a jet.

I still think that BA at BHX are living on borrowed time, as all their flights are "non-core" and don't feed any profitable long-haul routes.

[Edited 2006-01-09 10:14:21]
 
Eurohub
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:49 pm

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 29):
Why a new livery and name? Could simply be a way of letting the staff know that all will be revealed about the simplification of the CitiExpress operation.

I don't know about a new livery, but a new name would give the BA Press and Marketing departments something meaty to sink their teeth into and IMO would provide more FOC media coverage.

After all, "BA launches new product/airline from BHX, MAN, BRS... to Europe" is slightly more exciting than "BA goes single-class in the regions". It might even help to reinvigorate the Citiexpress team and imrove staff morale - this move would show that BA management are taking the regions seriously.

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 32):
So if there is a fleet change, I'd pick a D84/733 combination

On a personal note and economics aside, I'd be sad to see the ER4's and RJ100's fall by the wayside.
Forget A vs B - Give me E or BAe any day of the week!
 
georgiabill
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:06 pm

Just curious with Ryan Air and Easy Jet serving routes from Scotland,how big of a market is it, not to mention flag carriers and LCC'S like Sky!
 
mhodgson
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:41 pm

Quoting Concorde001 (Reply 31):
BA Red
BA Europe

Could just be protectionism, in the way U2 have already registered easyAtlantic.
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skidmarks
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:08 pm

Quoting CKT789 (Reply 4):
I thought the Dash 8's were being phased out?

They are still negotiating the lease extensions. So, we are still operating them (apart from YW which would seem to be a candidate for gate guardian at ABZ)

As to the rest of the rumours etc, we, the workers (and I use the term loosley before anyone starts!) will have the oportunity to view the new structure tomorrow by logging on to the comapnay intranet @ 07.00. And all this after they send out a postcard costing however much to tell us AND have a series of "road shows" late last year which told us diddly squat!

Oh, and the only thing we were told categorically was that there will be NO new aircraft in the near future. And when the EMB 170 family was mentioned, our illustrious leader poo pooed the idea and said the aircraft was "too heavy" - and this from a company operating the 146/RJ family!

Anyway, tomorrow is the day - so stand by for absolutely no news Big grin

Andy  old 
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7LBAC111
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:46 pm

Quoting Concorde001 (Reply 31):
I remember in Nov someone published on PPRUNE certain company names that had been registered in Birmingham. There were several, for example;
BA Red

BA Red is the internal 'project name' for the rebranding. The eventually reborn carrier will likely bare no resembalnce to the BA Red name.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 35):

 sarcastic 

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
Crosscountry
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:13 am

I heard BA Connect
Saw the press release the telegraph got.
I was under the impression they were going over to Buy On Board with free food and seat reservations only with the £100 "Executive" upgrade
 
bhxforever
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:35 am

Citiexpress Club Europe flights are no longer bookable on BA.com
 
rdwootty
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:44 am

I say the best aircraft for BHX is a Viscount, cheap,slow , bags of room between seats and in correct config there would be 45 seast just about right for most BHX routes!!
 
goinv
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:51 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 35):
I used to fly MAN-NCE with some regularity and if you get one of the 3-3 config 146s that BA Citiexpress flew then you may as well be on a charter configured aircraft. Also the food service is far less than what one would get on BA mainlne.

A miniscule sandwich and a matchbox size piece of Genoa cake was the norm. The reason I was told was less room and insufficient galleys on the 146.

Try BA CitiExpress from Inverness to Gatwick. Early morning departures serve Bacon/Sausage/Egg/Hash Brown/Tomato with Tea/Coffee/Orange Juice
Evening departures have hot food (last trip was mince beat with potato scallops). This is on a Bae146.

BA CitiExpress only operate out of Inverness to Gatwick. Their cheapest fare is about £80 (incl taxes) whereas easyJet's cheapest is about £40 (incl taxes). People can also choose BD (normally about £100 but to LHR). On this route people pay a premium to travel BA because they have three departures per day whereas the other only have lunch time deaprtures. Therefore BA wins on felxibility.
Be who you are, The world was made to measure for your smile. So Smile.
 
Eurohub
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:54 am

I have just received this in an Email from BA announcing the new "BA Connect"...

--
BA Connect, a new streamlined service offering customers great value on domestic and European services from our UK regional airports, is replacing British Airways CitiExpress. The British Airways subsidiary will still be wholly owned by British Airways and will continue to offer a dedicated product for customers flying from UK regions.

To see a map of our route network click here.

BA Connect will give you even more choice and even lower fares - starting from as little as £25 one-way including taxes. On board you will be able to purchase from a range of high quality, competitively priced refreshments should you fancy a drink or a snack during your flight.

You’ll still be able to take advantage of all the great benefits of ba.com including making and managing your booking and printing your own boarding pass all from the convenience of your computer.BA Connect will also offer a Plus ticket type. This will provide:

• Access to the Executive Club Lounge where you can sit back, enjoy complimentary food and drink, and relax before your flight
• The opportunity to pre-select the available seat of your choice when you make your booking.
• A range of flexible fare options

You will receive further information and be able to book BA Connect flights from 01 February 2006. Services will begin on 26 March 2006, when we look forward to welcoming you on board.
--

It seems to answer most of the questions.

Regards,
Eurohub
Forget A vs B - Give me E or BAe any day of the week!
 
fbgdavidson
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:32 am

"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
 
Concorde001
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RE: Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:38 am

Bacx To Become BA Connect (by Skidmarks Jan 10 2006 in Civil Aviation)

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