Simpilicity
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ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:04 pm

Does anyone know how the summer charters that are 1/2 way thru from LGW to PER & SYD have been doing?

It appears from lack of one way seats available LGW/OZ that flights maybe nearly full ???

Does anyone know the exact seating on the high density 762ER they are using?

Is it 2-4-2 seating in Y with total of about 270 seats?

Can only find one photo of aircraft at PER G-BRIG & no inside photos on any Thomson Fly 767's at all ???

Any reports on quality of flights? (2 stops unfortunately). I would have thought that PER could be done in 1 stop, although I guess with maximum load maybe not westbound ?
 
Simpilicity
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:22 pm

just found stats on Thomson Fly 767's hiden on their website ...

290 pax on a 762 sounds cosy (I guess that's all one class 2-4-2) & 274 is 2 class with small premium Y, in 2-2-2 config ????

Anyonw know the seat pitch? Is it 28 inches?

Boeing 767-200ER
Total In Fleet
Seating
Engines
Speed
Range : 4
: 274 or 290
: General Electrics CF6-80 Series
: Mach 0.80 (850 kph)
: 12,250 km

Boeing 767-300ER
Total In Fleet
Seating
Engines
Speed
Range : 9
: 328 (315 with Premium)
: General Electrics CF6-80C2BF7
: Mach 0.80 (850 Kph)
: 11,320 Km
 
miami1
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:57 am

I believe the seat pitch is 30" on their widebodies.

There is no premium class on the 762s so I do not know why the two configs. Some 763s have Premium though it is 2-3-2 across.

The seatmaps are available on their website too.
 
Simpilicity
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:06 am

Quoting Miami1 (Reply 2):



Quoting Miami1 (Reply 2):
The seatmaps are available on their website too.

]

Couldn't find their seat maps on their messy website. Can u supply the address?
 
by738
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:07 am

The seat maps are no longer on their new updated website (combining ThomsonFly charter and lowcost)
 
Simpilicity
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:22 am

thanks BY738. So do u have any idea being a local (in UK) how these charters are doing?

In previous years, Air Tours & other companies have flown to more cities than just PER & SYD (inc MEL & BNE).
 
Lufthansa
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:40 am

Yes, but in previous years there was no double daily Emirates service either!
I'm sure that has got to be making some kind of impact, especially given their strenght from UK airports outside London.
 
Captain.MD-11
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:51 am

I can tell you now that when I worked for them, the seat pitch on the 767-200's was less than on the 767-300's. I could hardly fit in between the seats on the 200's when we were sorting out the seat pockets. When BY / Thomson first offered the OZ routes, they had a 270 (ish) config on the 200's and that was meant to be extremely comfortable.

I would not fancy 20hrs on a T-FLY 767-200  Smile

Why are they operating G-BRIG down to Australia? Surely G-BYAA or AB would be a better choice, they have the up-rated engines for hot and high airports.
Twins,twins, everywhere.... but where are the three holers?
 
Simpilicity
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:25 am

Quoting Captain.MD-11 (Reply 7):
Why are they operating G-BRIG down to Australia? Surely G-BYAA or AB would be a better choice, they have the up-rated engines for hot and high airports.

Anyone know why?
 
Orion737
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:09 pm

I cannot imagine being on a ThomsonFly 762 to Australia. The Canaries are my limit on them!

How many of their passengers have suffered DVT after their flight down under on those 767s? Big grin
 
Simpilicity
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:27 pm

DVT not just a symptom of seat width & pitch !!!
 
jmc757
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:54 pm

I would tend to say the Austravel chartered flights do OK. They have ran for a number of years now, albeit with a few different carriera (European 747s at one time), but each year they operate, so must do OK.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 6):
Yes, but in previous years there was no double daily Emirates service either!
I'm sure that has got to be making some kind of impact, especially given their strenght from UK airports outside London.

While true, its not direct competition. The Thomsonfly flights are a charter for travel agents Austravel. The seats are generally for Austravel packages, or for the travel agent to sell as seat only, usually at a very reasonable price. Slightly different market.

Not sure I'd fancy it either!
 
Orion737
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:03 am

No, simplicity. DVT is not just a result of seat width and pitch but I think you will agree it is a contributing factor and on a 2-4-2 270 seat 762 for a 20+ hour journey, If I were ThomsonFly I would hand out those special socks to all passengers traveling in that long haul sardine can.
 
Captain.MD-11
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:08 am

'2-4-2 270 seat 767-200' ............. that's if they have removed seats for the Oz service. The standard 767-200's are 290 2-4-2, no premium products are offered onboard. If they do have 274 onboard, then the seat puch should be greather than the 30" mentioned.
Twins,twins, everywhere.... but where are the three holers?
 
Simpilicity
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:17 am

they do offer premium economy, ie. 2 classes on 762 to OZ !!!
 
Captain.MD-11
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:23 am

When I said no premium products offered, I meant on the standard 767-200 290 config. I have no real information on the latest OZ product.

So have they decided to operate two 767-200's in a 2 class layout then, surely 1 would not be enough to run the Oz service? That would leave 2 in the standard 1 class 290 config.

BTW in my post above, it was meant to read seat pitch and greater lol my fingers move before my brain sometimes Big grin
Twins,twins, everywhere.... but where are the three holers?
 
Simpilicity
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:33 am

Quoting Captain.MD-11 (Reply 15):
surely 1 would not be enough to run the Oz service?

It appears from Austravel website, that they are only using 1 aircraft, ie. one rotation LGW/PER/LGW per week & one rotation LGW/SYD/LGW.

Very roughly each rotation in each direction is around 24 hours, so 4 days plus are taken up each week, without any turnaround time (crew rest time at PER & SYD) so add another day, meaning there's 5 days a week.

Obviously it's up to Thomson Fly what aircraft they supply. Maybe they do have another 762ER with same or very similar seating configuration, as a backup ? Would that normally be the case in norhtern winter ?

In northern summer what do they do if an aircraft goes U/S ? Would they sill have a back up aircraft, or just scramble to get U/S aircraft serviceable ASAP ?
 
Stealthz
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:51 am

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 8):
Quoting Captain.MD-11 (Reply 7):
Why are they operating G-BRIG down to Australia? Surely G-BYAA or AB would be a better choice, they have the up-rated engines for hot and high airports.

Anyone know why?

No real need, can't comment on the other advantages but I would think none of the airports they stop at would really qualify as Hot & High, warm yes but density altitudes would not be that great even on hot days.

C
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
Captain.MD-11
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:01 am

I guess that it really doesn't matter considering it is Winter. So places like Bahrain, Dubai, Abu Dhabi and other possible fueling stops won't really be warm enough for the density altitude (as you mentioned) to be considered.

You sure can tell the difference on take-off between the 762's in the fleet.There is nothing like being kicked back in your seat when onboard AA/AB Big grin
Twins,twins, everywhere.... but where are the three holers?
 
Stealthz
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:35 am

Quoting Captain.MD-11 (Reply 18):
Bahrain, Dubai, Abu Dhabi and other possible fueling stops won't really be warm enough for the density altitude (as you mentioned) to be considered.

I believe those locations and certainly SIN/PER/SYD are all very close to sea level so on a hot day density altitude would not be that great.

EG SYD on a 100deg F day would have a density altitude of something like 2600 feet whereas DEN in the same conditions would be something like 11-12000 feet
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
Simpilicity
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:34 am

back on topic, it seemss from Austravel website, that most flights are 100% or close to 100% full, although hard to tell exactly.

Will they be doing it again 2006/7 ?

Using same or bigger aircraft?

To more cities apart from PER & SYD?

Is anyone selling these charters, from OZ either one way or return?
 
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Crosswind
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:17 pm

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 20):
back on topic, it seemss from Austravel website, that most flights are 100% or close to 100% full, although hard to tell exactly.

Will they be doing it again 2006/7 ?

Using same or bigger aircraft?

To more cities apart from PER & SYD?

It's probable they will operate next year, but the current Austravel programme is just a shadow of it's former self when Britannia served PER/SYD/MEL/BNE/AKL.

The Britannia flights first operated for the Winter 1989/1990 season, initially using B767-200s. From Winter 1996/97 B767-300s were used, but the flights were ended in early 2000 due to massive competition from scheduled carriers who's fares were much more competitive than 10 years previously when the Austravel services first started.

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Photo © Brian Wilkes
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Photo © Neville Murphy


Austravel made a brief return with their own charters for Winter 2003/04, but this time using European Air Charter B747-200s, but the flights did not operate the following winter...

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Photo © Micheil Keegan
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Photo © Micheil Keegan


While the return of Britannia (as Thomsonfly) may be a positive sign, recent history shows the viability of these flights to be shaky at best - the huge distances involved and very low fares do no make for a profitable venture for the tour operator. It almost seems as if Thomsonfly has given Austravel (both are now part of the same company) a very good seat rate for these flights to increase their fleet utilisation, so while it keeps an aircraft busy the Australian programme probably isn't making either party a fortune either!

Whether the flights return next year may well depend on how busy the rest of the Thomsonfly 767 is, and how many 767s Garuda require for the Hajj...

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Photo © Neville Murphy


Regards
CROSSWIND
 
Simpilicity
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:21 pm

thanks Crosswind. Just a long shot but doo you have a contact at either Thomsonfly or Austravel?
 
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Crosswind
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:47 pm

Sorry. I'm afraid not, the only Austravel contact I'd be able to provide would be their website!

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
Simpilicity
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:57 pm

no worries. Thanks anyway.
 
balboy
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:04 pm

Hi all.

Just a quick one cause I've just got home from an 18 day trip to Oz and I'm off to bed, then tomorrow off on my holidays to LPA.

G-BRIG is the Ozzie aircraft. Does the SYD on the Monday, comes back and does the PER on the Thursday.

262 seats at 30". This includes 31 Premium seats at 35"
My flights ( 6 sectors in 18 days) were pretty full except the last 2 which carried around 190 pax.

The program ends next week. Will we do them again, don't know. Don't know how we make a profit to be honest.

Premium was never full, so the choice was there.

Passenger profile ranged from backpackers to elderly couples, and It broke my heart to see them in the arrivals hall hugging the family they hadn't seen in god knows how many years.
And that's what its all about..Getting to Oz cheaply. The passengers know this and all mine were friendly and grateful.

By the way, came back today on G-BYAA which was configured to premium when G-BYAB was grounded a few weeks ago(she may never fly again unfortunately)

And yes I had a FAB time in AUH and SIN.
Take care all...
 
Simpilicity
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:57 pm

Quoting BALboy (Reply 25):
Will we do them again, don't know. Don't know how we make a profit to be honest.

Apparently, they're canning it, unless fuel prices drop significantly.

Can't see how they made a profit ... do the maths-apparently highest return fare was 499 pounds (+60 fuel surcharge +taxes/charges), but went down to 299 pounds return, 149 pounds one way & in last 2 weeks, out of PER have been selling for AUD$99 +taxes/charges !!! Crazy !!!

Yield manager, should be taken out & shot !!! AUD$99 is insane PER/LGW one way. They should have been doing earlybird deals 6-12 months ago.

Australians will book 11 1/2 months ahead (& pay) to get a deal. We book hundreds to North America every FEB for following JAN.
 
by738
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:22 pm

Oh no-whats wrong with BYAB ?

Quoting BALboy (Reply 25):
By the way, came back today on G-BYAA which was configured to premium when G-BYAB was grounded a few weeks ago(she may never fly again unfortunately)

Oh no-whats wrong with BYAB ?
 
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Crosswind
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:29 pm

Quoting BY738 (Reply 27):
Oh no-whats wrong with BYAB ?

Nothing any more apparently!

It was photographed in service just a few days ago...
G-BYAB at Geneva 14 Jan 2006
G-BYAB at Manchester 15 Jan 2006

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
balboy
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RE: ThomsonFly(Austravel)charter To OZ-how They Doing?

Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:58 pm

Crosswind..

Please forgive me regarding G-BYAB. We've been away for so long, I didn't know they had fixed her fuel tank problem.

Glad the old birds back...