NZCH
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Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:00 am

I was just wondering if Air NZ is going to replace it's domestic 737 300's within the next year or two. The 737 300's have been around a long time some of Air NZ's 737's are some of the first made and Air New Zealand have the last ever made 737 which I think was in the early 1990's but I don't know the reg. And several 737 300's have fold screens. But the average age of Air New Zealand's 737 300's are 8 years. I think the A319 is a good option to replace the 737's as Air NZ already have the A320 in it's fleet, they have 13 of them to use on Australian and pacific routes and also on a couple of domestic routes in New Zealand. The A319 can seat 124 in a 2 class configuration and 142 in a single class configuration. They both have similar performance specifications, but the A319 is more modern, to the 737 300.

info courtesy of www.airnewzealand.co.nz/aboutus/fleet/
and www.airliners.net/info

Regards NZCH
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roseflyer
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:11 am

Quoting NZCH (Thread starter):
The 737 300's have been around a long time some of Air NZ's 737's are some of the first made and Air New Zealand have the last ever made 737 which I think was in the early 1990's but I don't know the reg.

Actually Air New Zealand has the newest 737-300 fleet in the world. All but one plane (a leased plane delivered in 1995) were manufactured between 1997 and 1999. They are very new. Air New Zealand was taking deliveries of 733s when other airlines were taking delivery of 737NGs. Older 737s can fly for ages. Air New Zealand only replaced 732s on domestic flights only a few years ago. Also some of the 733s have fewer cycles than similarly aged 737s because they were operated on longer flights that A320s have taken over from. This means that the 733s should have even more life left in them.

Quoting NZCH (Thread starter):
think the A319 is a good option to replace the 737's as Air NZ already have the A320 in it's fleet, they have 13 of them to use on Australian and pacific routes and also on a couple of domestic routes in New Zealand. The A319 can seat 124 in a 2 class configuration and 142 in a single class configuration. They both have similar performance specifications, but the A319 is more modern, to the 737 300.

The 733 is the perfect jet for the domestic market in New Zealand. 737NGs and A320s are too much airplane for the short domestic routes. The smaller wings and lower weights of the 733s compared to the 73G and A319 makes them ideal on the flights of less than two hours. There currently isn't a good plane to replace the 733s. 737NGs and A320s are better suited for flights between Australia and New Zealand as they have more range. The 733s are young and still efficient. Air New Zealand is spending all of its money now on refurbishing the international fleet as they have 777s adn 787s on order. There is a reason that Air New Zealand was still taking delivery of the 733s when other airlines were ordering 737NGs. The 733s that Air New Zealand operates have some new technology incorporated in them since they are relatively recently built planes.

[Edited 2006-01-08 22:14:00]
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NZCH
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:21 am

Thanks for your comment ROSEFLYER I was just thinking out loud about it, because my stepdad is an Air New Zealand engineer at Christchurch, he was just mentioning it to me how crammed they look inside with all those seats. But I was just wondering that's all. Thanks once again.

Regards NZCH
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ZKSUJ
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:22 am

I also recall someone saying that they will be staying for a while yet because:
-They are not that old
-They are very cheap to run

SUJ
 
Mr AirNZ
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:54 am

The 737's make money and they make money well. I have not heard any rumours about a 737 replacement in the near future from Pilots and other staff alike (and Pilots are big talkers!) The 737 also has a cetain 'pizazz' that the Airbus can't match, a pilot who has flown both once told me the 737 is like a sports car, the Airbus like a stationwagon.
 
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:55 am

Agree, you see the 733 take off as opposed to a 320, the 733 is like a flipping rocket.
 
NZCH
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:06 am

Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 4):
The 737's make money and they make money well. I have not heard any rumours about a 737 replacement in the near future from Pilots and other staff alike (and Pilots are big talkers!) The 737 also has a cetain 'pizazz' that the Airbus can't match, a pilot who has flown both once told me the 737 is like a sports car, the Airbus like a stationwagon.

Thanks on you comment, so I take it that Air NZ will not be replacing them any timesoon in the near future as in the next couple of years.

Regards NZCH
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:15 am

the 733 is currently able to land at some of the smaller airfields that the 320 cannot. Rotorua is one example of this, although I believe they are just about to start the upgrade of the runway so it can handle intl. 320 flights to try and attract Jetstar & Pacific Blue & Freedom. I think they want about 10-12 flights per week eventually.
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NZ107
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:27 am

Quoting Aerorobnz (Reply 7):
Rotorua is one example of this, although I believe they are just about to start the upgrade of the runway so it can handle intl. 320 flights to try and attract Jetstar & Pacific Blue & Freedom. I think they want about 10-12 flights per week eventually.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/search/sto...00A9D7F-D8A8-13C0-A8BE83027AF1010F

Today's paper, A4. It states that international flights are currently limited to 70% payload but the full completion of the extension will allow full A320 payloads. Regular services expected by 2010 with 10-14 flights a week.
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NZCH
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:30 am

Quoting Aerorobnz (Reply 7):
the 733 is currently able to land at some of the smaller airfields that the 320 cannot. Rotorua is one example of this, although I believe they are just about to start the upgrade of the runway so it can handle intl. 320 flights to try and attract Jetstar & Pacific Blue & Freedom. I think they want about 10-12 flights per week eventually.

Wow I never seen that one coming, how long is the runway going to be? When will it be it extended? And what will be the maximum aircraft aloud to take off?
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Mr AirNZ
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:04 am

To a degree I think it's the Rotorua airport company dreaming (if you've heard the stories about the airport company you'll know what I mean). SJ and NZ have expressed no interest (thus far) in Rotovegas.
 
planemanofnz
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:23 pm

I would like to see NZ replace the 733's with either the 73G or the 319 but this will not happen for some time.
Does anybody know if NZ have any plans to refurbish the 733's with maybe the 320's leather seating?
 
jafa39
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:45 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 11):
Does anybody know if NZ have any plans to refurbish the 733's with maybe the 320's leather seating?

I very much doubt it, there would be no point as it wouldn't attract any extra pax, the longest 733 flight in NZ AKL-DUD is under 2 hours.

Mind you, a couple of the ex Freedom Air a/c could do with better seats.

I do AKL-WLG on a regular basis, I love the 733's, the only time I had an A320 on the route I felt as if i was doing something wicked and disloyal, not that I am an Airbus hater, it just seemed odd. Smile
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planemanofnz
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:58 pm

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 12):
Mind you, a couple of the ex Freedom Air a/c could do with better seats.

My last flight domestically with NZ was in September when I flew CHC-AKL. I flew in one of the ex-freedom air 737's and it was still in the freedomair colour scheme. The seats were terrible and whenever you would try to recline or move the headrest it would make a loud squeek.
The cabin did look very runned-down. However I have flown on other NZ 737's and they were great, I just prefer the 320's.
 
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:11 pm

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 3):
I also recall someone saying that they will be staying for a while yet because:
-They are not that old
-They are very cheap to run

I don't know how many times I've said those things in threads ZKSUJ, but I will say it again. Expect NZs Domestic B733s to be in service for the next 5 years, as they are some of the newest B737 classics in service and they make good money for NZ. Why should NZ replace good aircraft sooner then they should be? NZ has options on the A319s and A321s. If NZ goes airbus for domestic then A319s would be ordered (roughly same size and seating as the B733s), but latest rumors are B737-700s are being considered also cause it would be heaps easier to transfer to a B737NG dometic fleet

Quoting NZCH (Thread starter):
Air NZ already have the A320 in it's fleet, they have 13 of them to use on Australian and pacific routes and also on a couple of domestic routes in New Zealand.

Mostly the only time you will now see an A320 on domestic is when a B733 is in MX, yes NZ did operate the A320s regulary on domestic when they first arrived.
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jafa39
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:17 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 14):
Expect NZs Domestic B733s to be in service for the next 5 years,

How long would they retain them, if for example, the world economy or similar meant that an upgrade wasn't doable? Would 10 years be regarded as pushing it a bit, I ask this because most likely, when NZ have done with them, they will become "new" a/c on someone else's fleet.
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planemanofnz
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:27 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 14):
Mostly the only time you will now see an A320 on domestic is when a B733 is in MX, yes NZ did operate the A320s regulary on domestic when they first arrived.

I got a 320 on AKL-CHC in september. I believe if you check the schedules at www.airnz.co.nz there are a few 320's operating AKL-CHC and a few 767/747's operating CHC-AKL flights as part of flights from Japan.
 
N1120A
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:34 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1):
The smaller wings and lower weights of the 733s compared to the 73G and A319 makes them ideal on the flights of less than two hours. There currently isn't a good plane to replace the 733s. 737NGs and A320s are better suited for flights between Australia and New Zealand as they have more range.

The 73G makes up a large part of the weight difference with the 733 by having engines with a lower SFC and a more efficient wing. It can efficiently replace the 733 while allowing greater flexibility.
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NZ1
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:02 pm

Quoting NZCH (Thread starter):
The 737 300's have been around a long time

No they haven't. Not with us anyway. ZK-NGA, our first -300 arrived in 1998.

Quoting NZCH (Thread starter):
some of Air NZ's 737's are some of the first made

Ahh, no. Most of our fleet were delivered new or nearly new. ZK-NGO is probably the oldest, having transferred from British Airways.

Quoting NZCH (Thread starter):
Air New Zealand have the last ever made 737 which I think was in the early 1990's but I don't know the reg.

That would be ZK-NGJ

Quoting NZCH (Thread starter):
they have 13 of them to use on Australian and pacific routes

Soon to be 14. ZK-OJO arrives shortly

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 11):
Does anybody know if NZ have any plans to refurbish the 733's with maybe the 320's leather seating?

No plans to do so at all. Doubt if it will ever happen.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 14):
Mostly the only time you will now see an A320 on domestic is when a B733 is in MX

A320's quite regularly operate domestically as a means of positioning them between AKL/WLG and CHC. They are not normally incorporated into the schedule, because it happens on an ad-hoc basis. If one needs positioning, it is swapped with a 733 at that time to enable this to happen. Better to fly with pax, than empty.

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777ER
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:08 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 16):
I got a 320 on AKL-CHC in september. I believe if you check the schedules at www.airnz.co.nz there are a few 320's operating AKL-CHC and a few 767/747's operating CHC-AKL flights as part of flights from Japan.

Like I said A320s on domestic are rare. After searching NZs schedules from February 13th till February 17th, I only found one A320 flight that was AKL-CHC route on friday at 6am. That would be for an International ex CHC. 767s and 747s don't really count as they are a contination of the Japan International flights, but yes domestic can travel on them, thats if you want to go throu all the problems of having your passport for the flight and filling out the arrival card etc
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TG992
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:10 pm

Actually, (having just crewed one of these recently) domestic passengers don't need their passport or to fill out any forms. They just have to check in at the international counters, and checkin 60 minutes prior to the flight, rather than 30.
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rongotai
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:21 pm

This pleasant discussion sent me to my passenger log book. Astonished to find that since they first appeared I have flown on NZ 733s 733 times to date. Quite a coincidence. Tomorrow morning, however, it becomes 734.

PS. probably 90% of those sectors have been in 11A or 11F.
 
dj738
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:07 pm

Quoting Rongotai (Reply 21):
PS. probably 90% of those sectors have been in 11A or 11F.

I think you may mean 12A or F, and there actually is no 11A or F on Air New Zealand's 733's due to the emergency exit door requiring the deletion of a seat either side.
 
rongotai
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:08 am

I think you may mean 12A or F.

You are correct - finger hit the wrong key. The absence of 11A and F is precisely why I go for 12A/F.
 
dj738
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:29 am

Quoting Rongotai (Reply 23):
The absence of 11A and F is precisely why I go for 12A/F.

As do I whenever I fly domestically on NZ! These are great seats!

In fact, an NZ flight attendant friend tells me one of their ex-SJ 733's DOES have an 11A.. but not an 11F!!
 
Mr AirNZ
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:30 pm

Thinking off hand I think it might be SJE with 11A. Could be wrong (my memory aint perfect), but one of the sure does.
 
RichardJF
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:42 am

I had noticed that Waiouru army base had an airport with a 3900ft runway. I wonder if an airport name change (like Ryanair likes to do) to Ohakune-Waiouru and Dash 8 flights to Auckland and Wellington during the ski season might work?
 
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ODwyerPW
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:49 am

I would think the Embraer 195 would be the perfect airplane for NZ Domestic. Actually, it could even serve a few Australia to New Zealand destinations.

I've flown on a few 733 Domestic flights in New Zealand during High Season (Jan/Feb) and they were never even at 60% capacity. Might have just been those particular instances. However, it did lead me to believe the 195 with 85-90 pax has to be more profitable then a 733 with 85-90 pax. I may be wrong. Of course, with comfortable seating, the 195 would max out at 108-112 pax where the 733/73G could carry 135-140.

Wouldn't an Embraer 195 look good in NZAir livery? (not that that is a deciding factor when selecting aircraft)
learning never stops.
 
JoFMO
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:12 am

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 26):
I had noticed that Waiouru army base had an airport with a 3900ft runway. I wonder if an airport name change (like Ryanair likes to do) to Ohakune-Waiouru and Dash 8 flights to Auckland and Wellington during the ski season might work?

Where is that base? Is it next to the snowie vulkano mountain on the north island (Mont Tongariro if I remember correctly)?
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:26 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 14):
I don't know how many times I've said those things in threads ZKSUJ, but I will say it again. Expect NZs Domestic B733s to be in service for the next 5 years, as they are some of the newest B737 classics in service and they make good money for NZ.

Huh? I never once said they should or they were leaving. I just stated what someone said on here a few months ago?

What are you on about?  Wink
 
planemanofnz
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:44 am

Quoting ODwyerPW (Reply 27):
I would think the Embraer 195 would be the perfect airplane for NZ Domestic. Actually, it could even serve a few Australia to New Zealand destinations

I don't know about NZ to Australia but some of the regional Embrarer aircraft would be very well suited to NZ - I wonder if they would look into it.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:45 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
The 73G makes up a large part of the weight difference with the 733 by having engines with a lower SFC and a more efficient wing. It can efficiently replace the 733 while allowing greater flexibility.

72,490lbs empty weight for the 733 compared to 84,100lbs for the 73G is a significant difference when the extra performance of the 73G is not needed. The 733 is perfectly suited for flights within New Zealand which are all under 750 miles. The 733 is ideal for the short flights. The 73G would be much better on transTasman flights, but Air New Zealand has gone with Airbus A320s for those flights.
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JoFMO
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:16 am

If NZ begins to replace it's domestic 733, they should go with A319. I wouldn't suggest another type in form of a regional jet.

Besides the triangle AKL-WLG-CHC AirNZ doesn't need jets in the size of a 733/319. Maybe also some for AKL-ZQN and AKL-DUD, but thats it. I don't think these small number of routes warrant an additional type in their fleet.

All other routes are well served with less than 100 seat planes. And they recently aquired a large amount of Dash turboprops. Turboprops are cheaper to operate than regional jets and most routes in NZ are no longer than 1 hour. Also on these routes there is no competitor flying jets who could force them to follow.
 
Mr AirNZ
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:03 pm

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 26):
I had noticed that Waiouru army base had an airport with a 3900ft runway. I wonder if an airport name change (like Ryanair likes to do) to Ohakune-Waiouru and Dash 8 flights to Auckland and Wellington during the ski season might work?

Yes their is a runway but no facilities at all at this airfield (it is purely a military field for the Hercs.). Waiouru wouldn't be the best place to fly to for ski trips anyway, its on the wrong side of the mountain so then you have the problem of positioning buses to move the pax. (Air New Zealand does not follow Ryanair's tactics of 'creative labelling,' eg. you fly to Napier and you end up in Napier, not somewhere 150km away). Not going to happen my friend.
 
ZKNSJ
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:54 pm

plus im led to believe that the runway at waiouru was built against the prevailing winds, back in the old ministry of works days
 
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:17 pm

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 29):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 14):
I don't know how many times I've said those things in threads ZKSUJ, but I will say it again. Expect NZs Domestic B733s to be in service for the next 5 years, as they are some of the newest B737 classics in service and they make good money for NZ.

Huh? I never once said they should or they were leaving. I just stated what someone said on here a few months ago?

What are you on about?

I know you never said that they should or are leaving. I was meaning and backing up your statement. In reply 3 you said I also recall someone saying that they will be staying cause and I said that I've said heaps on a.net that NZs B733s are excellent for domestic. Maybe it was me that you were refering to in reply 3
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ZKSUJ
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:02 pm

Probably was. It was a while back.  Smile
 
airnz777pilot
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:00 pm

I'm not sure but i read somewhere that Air NZ are moving more towards boeing and that would probely mean not going towards the A318
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planemanofnz
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:08 pm

Would NZ ever consider getting blended winglets on the 733's instead?
 
Mr AirNZ
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:15 pm

Quoting Airnz777pilot (Reply 37):
I'm not sure but i read somewhere that Air NZ are moving more towards boeing and that would probely mean not going towards the A318

Nothing is decided, they are not leaning anyway. All options remain open.
 
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:17 pm

Quoting Airnz777pilot (Reply 37):
I'm not sure but i read somewhere that Air NZ are moving more towards boeing and that would probely mean not going towards the A318

Why would NZ want to move towards Boeing when the A320 family suit short haul perfectly cause of the cargo side. The A318 isnt in the A320 options, only the A319/320/321
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Mr AirNZ
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:25 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 38):
Would NZ ever consider getting blended winglets on the 733's instead?

Blended winglets achieve very little on short routes like the 733's operate

Quoting 777ER (Reply 40):
Why would NZ want to move towards Boeing when the A320 family suit short haul perfectly cause of the cargo side.

You might be surprised what will happen, as I said all options remain open.
 
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NZ1
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:17 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 38):
Would NZ ever consider getting blended winglets on the 733's instead?

No. They ain't gonna be around long enough to recoup the cost of installation.

Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 41):
You might be surprised what will happen, as I said all options remain open.

Don't be too sure my friend.

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Mr AirNZ
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:05 am

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 42):
Don't be too sure my friend.

If only all the pilots I have contact with 'spoke the same tune,' then I would know exactly whats going on  Wink
 
pilotdude09
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RE: Air NZ Domestic Jet Fleet Upgrade Any Time Soon

Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:23 pm

I think NZ should stick with its old mate boeing, they have boeing jets now they have had boeing jets and they havent cause NZ much trouble they have ordered the 777 and the 787 so i could only assume that they would go for boeing again?
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Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos