cricket
Posts: 2075
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:23 pm

AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:50 pm

One last thread on the endless Air India and Boeing saga.
In 1997 Air India started its search for a Medium Capacity Long Range (MCLR)Aircraft. Much was heard, said and done, governments came and went, and an entire generation of planes changed, but nothing much happened.
Eight months ago, it tenatively announced that Boeing had won the order.
A couple of weeks ago the government confirmed the order for
18 737-800
07 777-200LR
15 777-300ER
27 787-8
Tomorrow, the 11th of January at 1500, Air India's CMD V Thulasidas and Boeing CEO Alan Mullaly will sign the formal agreement at the Air India Boardroom, 23rd Floor, Air India Building, Nariman Point, Mumbai.
I will be in Delhi unfortunately, but I'm sure some TV channels will have live broadcasts of the event.
Now, a question to all Boeing watchers - this would be counted as 2006 orders right?
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:10 pm

Airplanes have been included in the 2005 totals of 1002 net orders IIRC. If looks like they shouldnt, if they haven't been signed for yet, making the 2005 totals 934.
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 13469
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:13 pm

Quoting Cricket (Thread starter):
Now, a question to all Boeing watchers - this would be counted as 2006 orders right?

That's very interesting, and confirms what was reported in the week's Flight International.

One would assume that this would become a 2006 firm order, but Boeing already seems to have counted this deal in it's 2005 orders.
http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm

 scratchchin  confused 
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
himmat01
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:34 pm

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:21 pm

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 2):
One would assume that this would become a 2006 firm order, but Boeing already seems to have counted this deal in it's 2005 orders.
http://active.boeing.com/commercial/...x.cfm

Maybe Boeing considered it a done deal when the union cabinet had cleared the deal.
An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
 
Shenzhen
Posts: 1664
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 12:11 pm

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:23 pm

I guess it would depend if the signing on the 11th is for show, and the actual contract was already signed and money deposited in 2005.

I doubt either Boeing or Airbus would include any order from India on the books until it was actually an order, otherwise it could be another 10 years or never before it is actually inked.

My experience tells me that the contract was signed long ago, with a provision for government approval. The government has approved, therefore it is now binding.

However, because of the Government approval process, the airline itself wasn't able to hold their press conference and have their day in the lime light, which will happen at a ceremonial signing on the 11th.

Now, go ahead spin Doctors, the floor is all yours..

Cheers
 
cricket
Posts: 2075
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:23 pm

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:29 pm

Hmmm, interesting, even though the order was cleared, because the 'official' deal wasn't signed it shouldn't be counted as a 2005 order, even though I guess Boeing made all the production allocations already.
I don't know if anyone will ask this tomorrow, but I would be really interested in knowing what sort of delivery dates AI has on the 787.
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
n1786b
Posts: 384
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:10 am

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:29 pm

http://www.flightinternational.com/A...a+boosts+size+of+Boeing+order.html

FI last week had this:

"Boeing revealed the increase in the size of the deal yesterday when it detailed all of the more than 1,000 firm aircraft orders it booked in 2005. The manufacturer shows on its website that in the final days of the year Air India signed for 23 777s, 27 787s and 18 737-800s. A public signing ceremony is scheduled for next week in Mumbai, although the deal is already considered binding."


A public signing ceremony - the deal is done and the documentation has been finished. They have a binding contract thus they counted the orders in 2005 when the deal was closed.

And Airbus has a "Term Sheet" From FI this week:

http://www.flightinternational.com/A...rs+close+in+on+aircraft+deals.html

"Indian Airlines, meanwhile, says it expects to sign a firm purchase agreement with Airbus after signing a “Term Sheet” with the manufacturer late in December. The carrier has been planning an order for 43 A320-family aircraft for years, but this has been repeatedly delayed, forcing it to lease more aircraft for expansion. The Term Sheet covers the planned purchase of 19 A319s, four A320s and 20 A321s, all powered by CFM International CFM56 engines, for delivery from October 2006."


So I expect both to count these orders in 2005 - unless Airbus wants to get a head start in 2006 and book them in Jan 06. Methinks if the 43 will pull them ahead of Boeing for 2005, you can bet your bottom dollar they will count them in 05.

Maybe that is what they are waiting for  duck 

- N1786B
 
himmat01
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:34 pm

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:52 pm

While going through the Boeing orders for 2005, I have observed that AI has the second highest number of orders for the Boeing 787. Overall, AI is number 3 in total orders made in 2004.
An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
 
Nimish
Posts: 2891
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:46 pm

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:12 pm

I'm sure AI and Boeing can't wait for tomorrow to finish! Congratulations (in advance) to both players.

Now we need to wait for AI route planning to tell us how they plan to utilize these aircraft. I guess a lot of the new 787s will be used to phase out the 310s, while the 773 will replace traditional 747 routes (and aircraft) and 772s will be all new routes - providing the long-thin coverage for India-US non-stop market.

I do hope that AI get rid of their older a/c when the new ones start rolling in.
Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
 
himmat01
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:34 pm

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:19 pm

I see the AI's own A310s being taken out of service within 2 years. They were inducted into the fleet between 1986-1989. As for the B747-400s, AI would continue with them at least for 5-6 years. They were inducted between 1993 and 1996. They are relatively quiet young by AI standards.

By the year 2012 when all the newly ordered aircrafts are in the fleet, AI fleet would be as follows:

6 B747-400s
7 B777-200LRs
15 B777-300ERs
27 B787-8s

AI Express would have:

18 B737-800s

AI fleet size would grow to 55. By then the B747-400s would have to be retired.The fleet sans the B747-400s would be 49. This is just 10 more the current AI fleet. A growth of 10 aircraft in 8 years is hardly a growth AI should be looking for. More aircraft will have to be ordered if it wants to compete with the likes of SQ, MH, EK or QR. Even if the 18 AIX a/c are included the fleet size would be just 67 which is less than the current fleet size of these airlines.

The so called expansion is merely a fleet replacement. AI needs to grow at a much quicker rate. It should be looking for a fleet size of around 80 by the year 2012.

It should seriously consider the B747-800 to take over one stop flights to the USA. B777-200LRs can be utilized for the longer nonstop routes. B777-300s, I guess could be deployed on high density non stops to Europe, Far East, South Africa and Australia/NZ. The B787-8s could take over from A310s on the South East Asia routes and low density non stops to Europe.
An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:28 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 8):
Now we need to wait for AI route planning to tell us how they plan to utilize these aircraft

I'm curious too.

I'd love to know what they're going to do with the gems such as: BOM-DEL-SIN, BOM-DEL-BKK-ICN, BOM-HYD-RUH, BOM-COK-TRV-CJB-GOI-MAA-SHJ etc etc!
 
DAYflyer
Posts: 3546
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:29 pm

Quoting Cricket (Reply 5):
Hmmm, interesting, even though the order was cleared, because the 'official' deal wasn't signed it shouldn't be counted as a 2005 order, even though I guess Boeing made all the production allocations already.
I don't know if anyone will ask this tomorrow, but I would be really interested in knowing what sort of delivery dates AI has on the 787.

The likely signed an order contingent upon government approval.
One Nation Under God
 
blrsea
Posts: 1437
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:48 am

I believe this is the fastest procurement in AI/IC's history  Smile I am only counting from the time the AI technical board selected the aircrafts to closing the deal. Good luck to AI!!

Quoting Himmat01 (Reply 9):
he so called expansion is merely a fleet replacement. AI needs to grow at a much quicker rate. It should be looking for a fleet size of around 80 by the year 2012.

We need to take into account the leased aircrafts too. There will probably be around 10-15 additional leased aircrafts along with their own metal. So some growth, though not as much as one would like.
 
blrsea
Posts: 1437
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:54 am

And I forgot. Since AIX takes over AI's gulf routes, the new planes really represents a growth for AI as AI has more planes to expand to new routes.
 
N60659
Posts: 639
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:24 pm

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:59 am

Quoting Cricket (Thread starter):
07 777-200LR



Quoting Himmat01 (Reply 9):
7 B777-200LRs

Shouldn't that actually be 8 772LRs?

-N60659
Nec Dextrorsum Nec Sinistrorsum
 
karan69
Posts: 2699
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:57 pm

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:46 am

A good analysis about AIs fleet by 2012 Himmat.
Apart from the minor error of 8 777-200 LRs and not 7, i would like to add my viewpoints which are as follows.

AIX which will have 18 aircraft by then will have taken over the Middle Eastern and most of the S.E. Asian routes like MAA/BLR/COK/CAL-SIN/KUL/CGK/BKK.

Leaving BOM/DEL out of the S.E.Asia flights as i assume they will be operating it on 787 which would continuoe onto AUS, along with the feeder traffic from AIX.

Keep in mind that AIs 310s can host around 185-190 pax in two classes [But as you might have seen from my pics in the trip report, their Buss class on their 310s is not even worthy of a domestic sector]
And AIs 738s will be configured in all economy 180 seats, so they would hardly loose 10 seats from their 310.

Meanwhile 10 77Ws will be replacing most of the flights of the leased aircrafts [6 744, 4 772], the remaining 5 will be used to launch new non-stops from BOM and DEL to East coast USA [NYC, Chicago]
*Ofcourse the routes flown by the 772 can also be replaced by 787 depending upon capacity.


The 27 787-800 will first of all be utilised in the following ways---

Around 7 aircraft to operate from various major cities in India to HKG/NRT/SEL/PVG/PEK.

The remaining 20 can be used to open up new thin routes to Europe and the Far East with Fifth Freedom traffic to the USA and Canada like

BOM-HKG-SFO/LAX
BLR-NRT-SFO/LAX
DEL-FRA-IAD
MAA-FRA-IAH/DFW
HYD-LHR-ORD/BOS
AMD-LHR-EWR/JFK
ATQ-BHX-YVR
BOM-BHX-ATL etc etc and maybe one or two non-stops if the 787 turns out to be the wonder it is deemed to...

8 777-200 LR will obviously open up routes like DEL-LAX, BOM-SFO, DEL-YYZ
BLR-SFO.
 
WestWing
Posts: 1133
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:01 am

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:22 am

It seems there must have been some piece of paper that AI signed before the end of 2005, otherwise Boeing couldn't legally count the orders in the 2005 total. In fact Boeing may have provided incentives (above board) for AI to make a formal commitment before the year.

So did Mullaly & other Boeing head-honchos fly AI's flagship service from ORD to BOM ?  Silly
Or did they just use N349BA ? Spotting opportunity in BOM ?
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
 
PlaneDane
Posts: 347
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:08 am

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:49 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 1):
Airplanes have been included in the 2005 totals of 1002 net orders IIRC. If looks like they shouldnt, if they haven't been signed for yet, making the 2005 totals 934.

Nope, you're wrong. These aircraft were signed for in 2005. The orders count toward the total number of 1002.
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:31 pm

Quoting PlaneDane (Reply 17):
Nope, you're wrong. These aircraft were signed for in 2005. The orders count toward the total number of 1002.

You could be right. But the formal signing today, atleast cast doubt about this. Without the AI order, breaking the number 1000 would not have been possible. 1002 sounds a lot more glamourous than 934.
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
dalecary
Posts: 834
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2000 10:28 am

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:46 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 18):
You could be right. But the formal signing today, atleast cast doubt about this. Without the AI order, breaking the number 1000 would not have been possible. 1002 sounds a lot more glamourous than 934.

No, he is right. Boeing clearly counted the AI 737/777/787 order for 68 hulls in their 2005 orders.
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:15 pm

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 19):
Boeing clearly counted the AI 737/777/787 order for 68 hulls in their 2005 orders.

I know they did. But the question was, was it appropriate to do that, since the signing of the contract is today, 11 januari 2006.
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
IndianFlyboy
Posts: 289
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:58 pm

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:42 pm

Well Boeing has put up a one page advertisment in the Times of India today congratulating AI on the single largest aircraft order in Indian history.

http://epaperdaily.timesofindia.com/...Enter=true&Skin=TOI&GZ=T&AppName=1

Registration required.

Btw Check the headlines out on the first page.....
 
himmat01
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:34 pm

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:54 pm

It's 3.30 now. Has the deal been signed? Any update.
An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
 
Feroze
Posts: 663
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:05 am

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:28 pm

Quoting IndianFlyboy (Reply 21):
Well Boeing has put up a one page advertisment in the Times of India today congratulating AI on the single largest aircraft order in Indian history.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f102/feroze0/AIAd.jpg

Regards,

Feroze
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13772
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:54 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 18):
You could be right. But the formal signing today, atleast cast doubt about this.

It's only a ceremony and has no legal standing. Contracts re: legal standing were signed in dec 2005.

It's like getting the "big check" when you win a lottery. That's not actually the check, it's a symbolic check. The actual check is just a normal sized check printed by some payment service.

Don't get too wrapped up in government ceremony. It has nothing to do with business accounting.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
User avatar
PanAm_DC10
Crew
Posts: 3805
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 7:37 am

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:25 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 20):
Quoting Dalecary (Reply 19):
Boeing clearly counted the AI 737/777/787 order for 68 hulls in their 2005 orders.

I know they did. But the question was, was it appropriate to do that, since the signing of the contract is today, 11 januari 2006.

Manni, with respect, Dalecarey is correct. What we are seeing now is a formal signing ceremony as per;

Quoting Shenzhen (Reply 4):
I guess it would depend if the signing on the 11th is for show, and the actual contract was already signed and money deposited in 2005.

Boeing have to abide by the governing rules and regulations of the securities exchange with which they are listed on and the appropriate regulatory authority which governs those securities laws. We've witnessed what happens to Boeing executives when they break those laws. They simply get sent to prison or asked to "resign".

Quoting Shenzhen (Reply 4):
My experience tells me that the contract was signed long ago, with a provision for government approval. The government has approved, therefore it is now binding.

However, because of the Government approval process, the airline itself wasn't able to hold their press conference and have their day in the lime light, which will happen at a ceremonial signing on the 11th.

That sir, is the truth of the matter. I've no link, though it will appear in the public domain shortly, for those whom like to read SEC Filings.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
WestWing
Posts: 1133
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:01 am

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:29 pm

I am still curious about how the Boeing execs flew to BOM. It probably was not politically correct for them to have flown a commercial airline other than AI for the deal signing.

My question to BOM spotters is, did anyone see a BBJ (perhaps N349BA) show up at BOM in the last few days ?

Thanks
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
 
COEWR787
Posts: 302
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:13 am

Quoting Himmat01 (Reply 22):
It's 3.30 now. Has the deal been signed? Any update.

For what it is worth, at around 9:35am EST today (11 Jan 06) CNBC reported that the signing ceremony had taken place and that Boeing shares were trading about 1% higher.
 
Thunderbird1
Posts: 223
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:23 am

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:38 am

Would be a shame if AI ceased to be a 747 operator.

Given the routes and pax densities, AI could use at least a dozen 747-800s IMHO.
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:51 am

Why would AI need the 747? The 773ER can do the job just as well.

Besides, AI is no longer the only Indian player. With 9W ordering 10 773ERS, and 10 A332s, frequency will be the key mantra, rather than huge jets like the 748 and A380 for the international market.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:58 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 29):
Why would AI need the 747? The 773ER can do the job just as well.

Most of the time, yes. But there must be some routes that could do with the increased capacity of an aircraft like the 744, without warranting an additional frequency.
Also, with some of the longer routes, such as India to North America, nearly all flights will end up leaving within a 2-3 hour window. It really won't matter if a flight leaves at 2 am or 4 am, will it?
 
Oykie
Posts: 1571
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:21 am

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:07 am

Here is the link to Boeings press release

Boeing, Air India Celebrate Order Agreement for 68 Jets; Largest Commercial Airplane Order in India's Civil Aviation History
Order includes 777s, 787s and 737s for fleet renewal and expansion
Air India is the first Southeast Asian airline to order the 787 Dreamliner
Boeing commits to investing in maintenance, repair and overhaul base, and training facility in India

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2006/q1/060111a_nr.html
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
User avatar
RobK
Posts: 3232
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:43 pm

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:08 am

Quoting WestWing (Reply 26):
I am still curious about how the Boeing execs flew to BOM. It probably was not politically correct for them to have flown a commercial airline other than AI for the deal signing.

My question to BOM spotters is, did anyone see a BBJ (perhaps N349BA) show up at BOM in the last few days ?

It may have been N339BA that left BFI for Kansai and onward destination on the 10th.

R
 
WestWing
Posts: 1133
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:01 am

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:43 am

Good guess ! Thanks. And N339BA came from Chicago (Gary, IN) the previous day.
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13772
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:05 am

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 31):
Here is the link to Boeings press release

and it clearly states it is a dec2005 order being celebrated today.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Thunderbird1
Posts: 223
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:23 am

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:50 am

Why would AI need the 747? The 773ER can do the job just as well.

Uh, no. That's why Boeing is coming out with the -800 in the first place.
 
atmx2000
Posts: 4301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:06 am

Quoting Jasepl (Reply 30):
Most of the time, yes. But there must be some routes that could do with the increased capacity of an aircraft like the 744, without warranting an additional frequency.

Of course, airlines from India have to wary of airlines like EK which plan on inundating the subcontinent with capacity. The larger jets will end up being filled with a higher mix of low yielding passengers who won't necessarily pay more for a more direct flight not routed through DXB or some other hub.

Besides if AI spends more capital on a smaller number of larger jets, they could end up losing out on high yield passengers who need to fly to a location not served by AI because AI doesn't have enough passengers.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:32 am

Quoting Jasepl (Reply 30):
Quoting Jaysit (Reply 29):
Why would AI need the 747? The 773ER can do the job just as well.

Most of the time, yes. But there must be some routes that could do with the increased capacity of an aircraft like the 744, without warranting an additional frequency.
Also, with some of the longer routes, such as India to North America, nearly all flights will end up leaving within a 2-3 hour window. It really won't matter if a flight leaves at 2 am or 4 am, will it?

I guess I should restate what I said earlier.
With the 777s and 787s, AI can offer more direct flights from points other than BOM or DEL (i.e. more frequency from India overall). I doubt if AI will provide its 773ERs with more than say 10 F, and 30 J class seats. That leaves over 300 seats for Y.

Quoting Thunderbird1 (Reply 35):
Why would AI need the 747? The 773ER can do the job just as well.

Uh, no. That's why Boeing is coming out with the -800 in the first place.

For other carriers, the 748 may be warranted. For example, BA, LH, etc. But for the Indian market and with AI's focus on variants of the 777 and the 787, it makes no sense.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
cricket
Posts: 2075
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:23 pm

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:24 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 37):
But for the Indian market and with AI's focus on variants of the 777 and the 787, it makes no sense.

If AI does get the 748 or A380 - not anytime soon because the owned 744's still have 5-6 years left in them. They will put on high-capacity, slot-restricted routes such as BOM/DEL-LHR. If at all, and if that happens it will be a smallish order for 6-8 frames.
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
himmat01
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:34 pm

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:30 pm

The press release from Air India:

AI order







An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
 
NAV20
Posts: 8453
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:25 pm

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:05 pm

From this, it appears that what was being signed and celebrated this week was the quid pro quo for the aircraft order - an agreement with the Indian Government under which Boeing will set up aircraft maintenance and pilot training facilities in India:-

http://www.usatoday.com/money/indust...uring/2006-01-11-boeing-usat_x.htm
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
aseem
Posts: 1971
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:39 pm

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:10 pm

Quoting Himmat01 (Reply 39):

the model displays the current livery. Touching that old topic again. Don't you think it is time AI consider touching up its livery without touching palace windows.
rgds
VT-ASJ
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
WestWing
Posts: 1133
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:01 am

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:56 am

Inquiring minds want to know....who is the person in the red sari?
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
 
aseem
Posts: 1971
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:39 pm

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:01 am

Quoting WestWing (Reply 42):

Have seen her in couple of other photos related to AI. Maybe some PR pro.
rgds
VT-ASJ
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:30 am

Quoting WestWing (Reply 42):
Inquiring minds want to know....who is the person in the red sari?

Ha ha! That;s what I want to know. Clearly she isn;t one of the AI air hostesses!  Wink

And look at PP - oh so important with two phones!
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:57 pm

Next step....Recruitment  biggrin 
Finally the Deal is Signed.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
The777Man
Posts: 5925
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 1999 4:54 am

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:59 pm

Yes, they should change the livery!

I think they should have a red tail with the taurus logo in white on it. Red stripe extending from the tail along the windows and outlined palace windows in white. Just small changes but would mean a more modern look. Perhaps replace the grey belly with green ?

Nice that this is finally signed and firm. Looking forward to the first 777-337/ER and 777-237/LR!

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
Feroze
Posts: 663
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:05 am

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:07 pm

Quoting The777Man (Reply 46):
taurus logo

It's actually the Centaur aka the Sagittarius logo!

Regards,

Feroze
 
Nimish
Posts: 2891
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:46 pm

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:55 pm

Quoting Jasepl (Reply 44):
And look at PP - oh so important with two phones!

And what seems like crappy old 6610s at that (I have the same phone and know how old a model it is). He really needs to get with it  Smile
Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
 
The777Man
Posts: 5925
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 1999 4:54 am

RE: AI, Boeing To Ink Deal Tomorrow - 11th January

Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:37 am

Quoting Feroze (Reply 47):
It's actually the Centaur aka the Sagittarius logo!

Regards,

Feroze

Hi !

Sorry about that! It's a great logo and I think they should use it more. I've seen pictures of their 707s and it was more prominent on those aircaft.

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777