AirRyan
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Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:30 am

Just wondering how they have got HP from America West and Southwest came up with WN? I know that SW was already taken but does the WN or HP stand or mean anything else?
 
Newark777
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:32 am

The story goes that WN stands for "We're Nuts," but that's just a rumor.

Harry
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txagkuwait
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:49 am

In fact, the "WN=We're Nuts" is nothing more than a rumor.

When Southwest started flying in 1971, its original two letter designator was OE. There waqs not much available...Seaboard World (as I recall) had SW tied up.

When something with a W came available, Lamar Muse (then Pres & CEO) said to grab it, and they did.
 
FCYTravis
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:56 am

When a small startup dereg airline in Phoenix went looking to get off the ground, it found that another startup airline had gotten its operating certificate issued, and then promptly run out of cash. That airline was Hawaiian Pacific.

So the new airline's investors bought Hawaiian Pacific's operating certificate, and with it, the IATA letters HP.

America West Airlines was born.
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OPNLguy
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:59 am

Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 2):
In fact, the "WN=We're Nuts" is nothing more than a rumor.

I'll second that...  Wink
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
mandargb
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:25 pm

WN = "'W'e provideon only pea'N'uts" thats what I always thought.
BTW their stock ticker is "LUV" - Smile
 
dalb777
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:29 pm

How about B6 for Jet Blue and F9 for Frontier?
Geaux Tigers! Geaux Hornets! Geaux Saints! WHO DAT!!!
 
ANother
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:35 pm

Quoting Dalb777 (Reply 6):
How about B6 for Jet Blue and F9 for Frontier?

Normally new airlines are given a choice, from what is available. I guess JB and FR weren't available at the time.
 
n844aa
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:45 pm

Here's something I've wondered about: it seems like there are more airlines than IATA codes.* How is that handled? Are duplicates issued, or do some airlines not receive an IATA code?

* I estimate there are at least 1350 airlines listed at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airlines. But, there are only 1296 potential IATA codes (36 alphanumic characters * 36). I could be wrong about the number of airlines, but if anything, I'd imagine 1350 is an underestimation; I recall reading that 400 different airlines were created from the ashes of the Soviet Aeroflot alone.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
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LTU932
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:10 pm

Quoting ANother (Reply 7):
I guess JB and FR weren't available at the time.

One reason is because Ryanair already got FR.  Wink

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 1):
The story goes that WN stands for "We're Nuts," but that's just a rumor.

 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 
 
blsbls99
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:13 pm

I thought someone had told me when America West was chosing it's code that HP and one other two letter code wasn't used...one that began with V and ended with D...so they chose the HP code.
How long have the letter and number combination codes been around?
319 320 313 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 742 752 763 772 CRJ D9S ERJ EMB L10 M88 M90 SF3 AT4
 
CPH757
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:53 pm

Quoting N844AA (Reply 8):
* I estimate there are at least 1350 airlines listed at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airlines. But, there are only 1296 potential IATA codes (36 alphanumic characters * 36). I could be wrong about the number of airlines, but if anything, I'd imagine 1350 is an underestimation; I recall reading that 400 different airlines were created from the ashes of the Soviet Aeroflot alone.

It seems that HU is used twice. For Hainan Airlines, and Antigua Paradise Airways. I once got at Hainan ticket confirmation with the Antigua name printed on it  Smile
Last flight: SAW-CPH on H9 on 02/11/09 - Next Flights: 23/12/09 CPH-AAL on QI, 30/12/09 CPH-LHR on SK, 19/01/10 CPH-CDG-
 
ANother
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:35 pm

Quoting N844AA (Reply 8):
How is that handled?

Not all airlines require a two letter code - for example non scheduled operators, they can use their three letter ICAO code. As of last June there were 792 codes assigned, 49 blocked (codes used by industry associations and codes such as I1 (letter i + number 1) leaving 355 'Available'.

Quoting CPH757 (Reply 11):
It seems that HU is used twice

There are 211 codes which are 'controlled duplicates'. The rules for these are quite complex - for example is usually pax with cargo, the two can't operate in the same area, etc. etc.
 
andz
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:42 pm

Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 2):
Seaboard World (as I recall) had SW tied up.

SW is Air Namibia. (From the old name of the country, South West Africa).
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:46 pm

Quoting Andz (Reply 13):
SW is Air Namibia. (From the old name of the country, South West Africa).

It may be now, but what TxAg was referring to was in the context of what was happening back in the late 1960s/early 1970s. Was Air Namibia in existence back then, or did they just get the code subsequent to Seaboard World going out of business?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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blooBirdie
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:57 pm

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 14):
Was Air Namibia in existence back then

It was called Suid-Wes Lugdiens (Translates as South West Airservice).

Perhaps there was a duplicate in use?
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:25 pm

Quoting BlooBirdie (Reply 15):
It was called Suid-Wes Lugdiens (Translates as South West Airservice).

Did they have the "SW" code back in the late 1960s/early 1970s, or did Seaboard World (with Suid-Wes Lugdiens using something else)?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
ANother
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:41 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 16):
Did they have the "SW" code back in the late 1960s/early 1970s, or did Seaboard World (with Suid-Wes Lugdiens using something else)?

Well, according to this website it did have the code SW until it was absorbed by Flying Tigers in 1980. Also, it was known as Seaboard and Western Airlines until 1961. Amazing what a little googling will reveal.
 
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malaysia
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:53 am

Quoting ANother (Reply 17):
Well, according to this website it did have the code SW until it was absorbed by Flying Tigers in 1980. Also, it was known as Seaboard and Western Airlines until 1961. Amazing what a little googling will reveal.

Such as Ozark used its self describing IATA code of OZ

but after TWA took them over, Asiana took OZ grrrrr
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
pgtravel
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:40 am

Quoting Blsbls99 (Reply 10):
I thought someone had told me when America West was chosing it's code that HP and one other two letter code wasn't used...one that began with V and ended with D...so they chose the HP code.

This is the story I was told when I worked there. Of course, I was also told that HP stood for "Happy Passengers"! Corny? Oh yeah.
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:19 am

Well British Caledonian used the code BR until it was taken over by BA. Now Eva Air uses the BR code.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
srbmod
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:37 am

Quoting Dalb777 (Reply 6):
How about B6 for Jet Blue and F9 for Frontier?

The two letter code used by the original Frontier wasn't available either, as a little start up out of MCO was using the FL code.
 
Coronado990
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:48 am

Take note: WN is Northwest backwards.
Uncle SAN at your service!
 
n844aa
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:34 am

Quoting ANother (Reply 12):
Not all airlines require a two letter code - for example non scheduled operators, they can use their three letter ICAO code. As of last June there were 792 codes assigned, 49 blocked (codes used by industry associations and codes such as I1 (letter i + number 1) leaving 355 'Available'.

Thanks for that helpful information. I appreciate it.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
A319XFW
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:48 am

I prefer the 3-letter ICAO code, as you can (usually) tell which airline it is, for example:

EZY - easyJet
BAW - British Airways
DLH - Deutsche Lufthansa
UAL - United Airlines

And so on....
 
N1120A
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:56 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 4):
Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 2):
In fact, the "WN=We're Nuts" is nothing more than a rumor.

I'll second that...

Given that they hired you, I would tend to agree with the WN = We're Nuts explanation  Silly

Quoting ANother (Reply 7):
Normally new airlines are given a choice, from what is available. I guess JB and FR weren't available at the time.

JB is used by Helijet in Canada and FR is the well known Ryanair

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 24):
EZY - easyJet
BAW - British Airways
DLH - Deutsche Lufthansa
UAL - United Airlines

Except for 3 things. First, 3 of those 4 are easily understood from their 2 letter code. Second, IATA codes are more known to the general public because they are what appears on a ticket, boarding pass and departure screen. Finally, the A.net roll over only works for IATA codes. BTW, easyJet has both EZY and EZS as its codes
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
midex461
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:18 am

Quoting Pgtravel (Reply 19):
Of course, I was also told that HP stood for "Happy Passengers"!

I was told that HP stood for "Happy People". An even BIGGER joke!
Opinions and views expressed are MINE and do NOT represent the views of US Airways
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:31 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 25):
Given that they hired you, I would tend to agree with the WN = We're Nuts explanation

Mais oui Josephine, I am as sane as you...  crazy 
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
A319XFW
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:37 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 25):
Finally, the A.net roll over only works for IATA codes.

That's why I said "I prefer" and not A.net...  Big grin

B6 = JBU
HP = AWE
WN = SWA
AY = FIN
SK = SAS

From
http://www.airlinecodes.co.uk/airlcodesearch.asp
 
Flyawa
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:28 am

HP began with on-board ticketing forcing many pax to "hold pee" until arrival.
AW was held by Air Niger in the early 80s.
Better than most, not as good as some.
 
Scottiedog
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:44 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 25):
Except for 3 things. First, 3 of those 4 are easily understood from their 2 letter code. Second, IATA codes are more known to the general public because they are what appears on a ticket, boarding pass and departure screen. Finally, the A.net roll over only works for IATA codes. BTW, easyJet has both EZY and EZS as its codes

EZS actually belongs to easyJet Switzerland - this airlines was originally TEA Basel AG and easyJet took a 40pc holding in it in 1998. This holding was increased to 49pc in 1999, with an option to take the other 51pc.
 
hoosiercfi
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:16 am

I had always heard and thought that WN stood for "Why Not?", in reference to the code SW already being taken
 
Devil505x
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:21 am

Quoting Flyawa (Reply 29):
AW was held by Air Niger in the early 80s

They don't exist anymore so why not get it now?
Why did HP want to get HP so bad?
 
jetblueatjfk
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:48 am

Quoting Devil505x (Reply 32):
They don't exist anymore so why not get it now?
Why did HP want to get HP so bad?

I don't know about that one but their new code us US!  tongue 

B6 was J6 when they first started off I believe because in old A.net posts when B6 started everyone kept saying J6. I like B6 better, it sounds better. F9 sounds good but they could have went for something like FO, FN, FT, FI, FE. Lol, but I think F9 really is the best choice for them.

Also where did ATA's code from- TZ ??? That is really out there.

 airplane jetBlueAtJFK airplane 
 
ANother
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:41 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 25):
BTW, easyJet has both EZY and EZS as its codes

As noted these are two separate companies (and AOCs). But the NEXT BIG THING in two letter codes will be driven by 'flight number exhaustion'. i.e. Some airlines have, or are about to, run out of 4 digit flight numbers. i.e. Flight 1-9999. This is driven mostly by code-sharing. One idea circulating is to give airlines TWO two letter codes, but it may be some time before a standard can be agreed.

Before you ask - it would cost millions for the industry to move to 5 digit flight numbers (updating all GDSs, Airline Systems, Airport Systems, ATC etc!
 
cricket
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:41 pm

Quoting ANother (Reply 34):
Before you ask - it would cost millions for the industry to move to 5 digit flight numbers (updating all GDSs, Airline Systems, Airport Systems, ATC etc!

Oh god, as if ticketing isn't bad enough already.
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
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knope2001
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:14 pm

Until the early 80's airlines were limited to two-letter codes (no numbers) and so startups from that era tended to get the best two-letter code they could find. Often there wasn't a letter available that corresponded with the name of the airline.

In the early early '80s they started allowing the first character to be a number. So you had codes like 7R, 3A, etc. However there was a fair amount of resistence to using those (at least in the US) because those were perceived as oddball. Often these were picked by the bumper crop of small startup commuter airlines (you still see 9N for Transtates and 9E for Pinnacle, some of the rare survivors of tiny airlines born in this time). And so larger startups were hesitant to accept these codes because they were seen as for the little rinky-dink commuters. A handful of years later they started allowing the second character to be a number, and for whatever reason this was accepted more readily.
 
pgtravel
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:00 am

Quoting Devil505x (Reply 32):
Quoting Flyawa (Reply 29):
AW was held by Air Niger in the early 80s

They don't exist anymore so why not get it now?
Why did HP want to get HP so bad?

At last check, AW is now used by Dirgantara Air Services out of Indonesia and has been for quite some time. (Do they still fly?) Still, more than one airline can use a code as long as there is no regional overlap along with a few other rules - it's called a "controlled duplicate" in IATA speak.

Either way, I'm sure HP could have acquired the code from Dirgantara if they really wanted to, but the discussion always ended abruptly when costs of a changeover were considered. It's just not worth it.
 
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RobK
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:37 am

Quoting ANother (Reply 34):
But the NEXT BIG THING in two letter codes will be driven by 'flight number exhaustion'. i.e. Some airlines have, or are about to, run out of 4 digit flight numbers. i.e. Flight 1-9999. This is driven mostly by code-sharing. One idea circulating is to give airlines TWO two letter codes, but it may be some time before a standard can be agreed.

There are no need for 5 digits numbers. All the airlines have got to do is use alpha-numerical trip numbers, like several already do. AZA7C1 being a regular across the Pond, for example.

R
 
N1120A
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RE: Iata Codes: Where Did HP And WN Come From?

Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:47 am

Quoting ScottieDog (Reply 30):
EZS actually belongs to easyJet Switzerland - this airlines was originally TEA Basel AG and easyJet took a 40pc holding in it in 1998. This holding was increased to 49pc in 1999, with an option to take the other 51pc.

Yes, I know, but if you are figuring out an EasyJet flight, you could get confused

Quoting Devil505x (Reply 32):
Quoting Flyawa (Reply 29):
AW was held by Air Niger in the early 80s

They don't exist anymore so why not get it now?

The main reason any airline (or airport) doesn't change its code is cost. Take a look at New Orleans International and Sioux City airports. They have both wanted to change their codes but the cost and difficulty in changing has detoured that

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 33):
Also where did ATA's code from- TZ ??? That is really out there.

Well, ATA was originally known as American Trans Air (they changed the dba name of the air carrier to ATA Airlines to keep from being confused with Air Tran) and it kind of makes sense when you think of the phonetic way of pronouncing Trans (Tran-Z)
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss

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