gsoflyer
Posts: 822
Joined: Sat May 12, 2001 12:31 pm

GSO Falling Apart

Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:33 am

I've really noticed that Greensboro seems to be falling apart with air service lately.

2 months ago we had about 110 flights a day, now down to 72. We lost Airtran last year, now lost Indy and have no lost cost service. Lost all mainline service to Detroit, Cincinatti, LGA, Philly, Charlotte and Newark. Lost service to Tampa, BWI and JKF. Reduced service to Atlanta. We have picked up mainline to Dallas and Dulles though, but geez. I am not starting to question why they wasted the money on the north terminal expansion, especially since we have 2 gates that are already unused.

Is this trend happening at a lot of the airports for other market of 1 to 1.5 million population areas?

I hate driving to RDU, so its either drive or take Amtrak now.
 
fdex727
Posts: 172
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RE: GSO Falling Apart

Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:30 am

As far as I know there is no mainline service still to IAD, we, UA have not had mainline IAD service since it first began which is before I started at UA.
 
HPRamper
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RE: GSO Falling Apart

Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:01 am

I find it interesting that the VAST majority of GSO air traffic is regional or express carriers, I'm guessing because the big carriers have opted for RDU or CLT and do not see an advantage in throwing more mainline aircraft into such a market that is hemmed in by others with more service already. It's somewhat like carriers flying to the big Ohio airports....CVG, CMH and CLE and to a lesser extent CAK and DAY. Hardly any carriers fly mainline into all those although there are plenty of people around.

I don't know about GSO's fees or lease rates, or how big their facilities are, parking etc. I would think if there were enough incentive along those lines, they could draw some traffic away from CLT and/or RDU. I thought I heard some blurbs about WN and/or B6 coming to GSO a while back...?? But either way, as US Airways gradually lowers their fares on the East Coast their service will begin to resemble LCC fares. Might take up to a year for that though. It would still be on regional jets, unfortunately since I find it unlikely US would supply mainline aircraft to an airport so close to their co-#1 hub.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: GSO Falling Apart

Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:02 am

It's not just GSO. Lots of places are losing mainline service.

Even at RDU, we have reduced mainline service to ATL, CLT, PHL, EWR, ORD.. I think that unless u r the hub or a seriously important station, most airlines are backing off and letting the baby-jets do all the work..
Aiming High and going far..
 
FlyPIJets
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RE: GSO Falling Apart

Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:11 am

Why is it that AirTran can make PHF work but not GSO?

(edit)

In fact now that I think about this, I wonder if FL dropped RDU and CLT and focused on GSO, I bet that would become a great station for them. (I really would hate to loose FL at RDU, though, so I don't wish it true  Wink )

(edit)


Yes, it does seem that a vacuum effect for mid-sized, non-hub cities. In good times, aircraft are needed elsewhere, service declines. I worse times, here comes service to the mid-size cites - or reduce capacity to large cities to improve yield.

Well, I have no proof of that, it just seems that way.

[Edited 2006-01-11 20:20:42]
Rex Kramer: Get that finger out of your ear! You don't know where that finger's been!
 
cltguy
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RE: GSO Falling Apart

Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:48 am

I have noticed that the people that used to drive to GSO from CLT for the lower fares has trailed off dramatically in the past year as fares have fallen in CLT. Continental still offers the $78 r/t to EWR on some weekends which is enticeing...but that would be the only reason I would use GSO. The parking is great and the terminal is never congested so its a nice airport to use.

CLT has seen year over year increase in traffic of about 14% in 2005, most of that due to its status as a hub.

I'm not really sure what the future holds for GSO...I highly doubt that SWA will be coming there anytime soon, but I think that jetBlue will be there in the next year or 2.
 
nhgrafx
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RE: GSO Falling Apart

Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:24 am

First of all its nice to finally see some other people from my state here.

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 5):
I have noticed that the people that used to drive to GSO from CLT for the lower fares has trailed off dramatically in the past year as fares have fallen in CLT.

I have noticed that too, lots of people I know here in Charlotte always used to rave about how it was cheaper to fly out of GSO than CLT, but none of them say that anymore.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't GSO in the process of, or going to be, or were in the process of a major expansion project? I remember hearing something to that effect on the news a while ago. If they are losing that many flights, it seems unwise to do an expansion project. Speaking of GSO, is there a UPS hub there? Everytime I get something delivered here to Charlotte VIA UPS air, it always comes in through GSO.
Is it weird I have a RemoveBeforeFlight pitot cover on my car rear view mirror?
 
gsoflyer
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RE: GSO Falling Apart

Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:50 am

UPS has some sort of sorting terminal in town.... I thought it was UPS Ground though.

As for the major expansion, that is for the FedEx hub. The Commercial Passenger traffic doesn't require any of it.

The thing that is irritating is that they expanded the north concourse by what seems to be 6-8 gates when we already seem to have 3 open. So that could be 11 unused gates in this airport. This place is now a joke.
 
deltairlines
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RE: GSO Falling Apart

Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:55 am

New concourse should be opening on or around Feb. 15, according to DL agents. Figure that Delta will take about 4 gates out of the new gates (leaving 47/47a/49 open) will leave about 6 gates open, 3 on each concourse. Of course, US doesn't really fully utilize their gates (I've never seen 46 used, 45 only once or twice, etc.).

Jeff
 
gsoflyer
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RE: GSO Falling Apart

Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:31 am

The PTI website says United flied 2 mainlines a day to IAD. A guy from work said he is booked to fly to IAD on a 737.
 
flyf15
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RE: GSO Falling Apart

Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:42 am

When I lived in GSO in the late 90s, the airport had roughly the same number of flights (70-80 per day). Although, back then, a large amount were mainline flights. Looking at GSO's website, it appears that there are 72 flights currently with 60 being regional jets. This is rediculus. I wouldn't say it is due to Greensboro, moreso due to airlines. Although they say that turboprops have been replaced by RJs, a huge number of mainline flights have been replaced by RJs as well. Many airports across the country have lost all or most of their mainline service, replaced by RJs.


As it is well known that the days of the 50 seat RJ are over, it will be interesting to see what happens at airports such as GSO. One thing is for certain though, there won't be 60 50-seat RJ flights for long.
 
flyf15
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RE: GSO Falling Apart

Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:56 am

Just incase anyone is curious, looking through some old files I have on my computer, the flights breakdown for GSO has been...

30 Nov 1998 (Total: 73)
Mainline: 50
RJ: 5
Turboprop: 18

26 Apr 2001 (Total: 100)
Mainline: 46
RJ: 33
Turboprop: 21

12 Jan 2006 (Total: 72)
Mainline: 11
RJ: 60
Turboprop: 1
 
fdex727
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:01 am

RE: GSO Falling Apart

Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:03 am

Quoting Gsoflyer (Reply 9):
The PTI website says United flied 2 mainlines a day to IAD. A guy from work said he is booked to fly to IAD on a 737

I hate to break it to the PTI website but I've searched apollo and all we are getting is a mix of YV CRJ's and RP ERJ's. If you know the exact dates I can check that for you but the only flight that comes close to being filled regularly is the 230p departure.
 
GSPSPOT
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RE: GSO Falling Apart

Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:41 am

It sounds like GSO is like a larger version of GSP.... We only have mainline on DL to ATL and NW to MEM. Plenty of RJ service, though. Probably a total of close to 70 flights/day.
Finally made it to an airline mecca!
 
Midway2AirTran
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RE: GSO Falling Apart

Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:57 am

While GSO has a relatively large population, I figure it just lacks enough demand for airtravel. I'm not so sure if an current LCC would help much as we've seen several types try the market and ultimately fail. I have a feeling it will be worse as the industry transitions over the next couple years with traditional carriers cutting domestically and LCC's filling in voids.

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 10):
As it is well known that the days of the 50 seat RJ are over, it will be interesting to see what happens at airports such as GSO. One thing is for certain though, there won't be 60 50-seat RJ flights for long.

This will be interesting, I feel it may be a positive in the future for markets such as GSO if these a/c reach the efficiency threshold as predicted by many and not over-exploited; as we saw with the 50 seat future beer cans.
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
 
nhgrafx
Posts: 192
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RE: GSO Falling Apart

Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:42 am

What about INT? thats less than 20 miles from GSO. Do they get any airline service there that otherwise could go to GSO? I don't know anything about INT which is why I ask.
Is it weird I have a RemoveBeforeFlight pitot cover on my car rear view mirror?
 
gsoflyer
Posts: 822
Joined: Sat May 12, 2001 12:31 pm

RE: GSO Falling Apart

Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:14 am

INT had last scheduled service with Piedmont in the late 80s.
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: GSO Falling Apart

Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:40 am

Quoting NHGrafx (Reply 6):
Everytime I get something delivered here to Charlotte VIA UPS air, it always comes in through GSO.

GSO is both a "center" and a "hub" for UPS. CLT and RDU are "centers only" is how it was explained to me by a UPS employee. By hub, I think UPS means a ground hub.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
cltguy
Posts: 541
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:54 pm

RE: GSO Falling Apart

Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:28 pm

Yes when I get a UPS Air package it comes straight from Louisville and when I get a UPS Ground it goes through Greensboro.
 
Go3Team
Posts: 3156
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RE: GSO Falling Apart

Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:41 pm

I've been by GSO a few times, but never to the airport (well not in 30 years anyway) and was wondering if there are any places to check out the action.
Yay Pudding!
 
deltairlines
Posts: 6875
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

RE: GSO Falling Apart

Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:55 pm

Haven't really checked out the perimeter, but there is a cafeteria in between the two concourse ticket counters that overlooks the current NW/US/DL gates and gives a view of Runway 5/23 (which is used 99% of the time...I've never seen a commercial aircraft use 14/32). Not the greatest spot, but definetely not the worst.

Jeff
 
edelag
Posts: 304
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2005 2:35 am

RE: GSO Falling Apart

Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:02 pm

I am sorry to hear that, if GSO is your hometown I do know how it seems to feel loosing good revenue. But hey people are still traveling, in November I flew from GSO to DFW on an MD-80 and I had a full flight. Expecting my next trip to GSO which will be on the last days of April.

Eugenio De la Garza
It's not just the destination, it's the journey.
 
gsoflyer
Posts: 822
Joined: Sat May 12, 2001 12:31 pm

RE: GSO Falling Apart

Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:02 pm

Quote:
I've been by GSO a few times, but never to the airport (well not in 30 years anyway) and was wondering if there are any places to check out the action.

Not really, GSO is a pain to spot at. The east side is covered by either forest or TIMCO hangers, the west side is all lined with general aviation, cargo terminals or passenger terminals, the south side is borered by a street below runway level or by Tradewinds hangers or the Comair hanger, and the north side is all covered with construction for the FedEx hub.

You can try, you may have some good luck. TIMCO has some nice planes right now. I think there is an Icelandic Air, Egypt Air, and Alitalia there right now.
 
deltairlines
Posts: 6875
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

RE: GSO Falling Apart

Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:28 pm

Quoting Gsoflyer (Reply 22):
You can try, you may have some good luck. TIMCO has some nice planes right now. I think there is an Icelandic Air, Egypt Air, and Alitalia there right now.

Did not see anything out there when I flew in Saturday around 11 (on Delta 580 from ATL)...everything must have been in the hangars or something.

I do love having TIMCO around...it's a great way to add some diverse aircraft to my logbook...too bad it doesn't appear I have to travel out of GSO again until March (at least then, my travel picks up through mid-May).

Jeff

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