ikramerica
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TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:49 am

Watching this dumb movie "Sunday in New York" from 1963, and one of the main characters is a TWA pilot.

Lots of shots at Idlewild, in and around TWA. Anyway, he just accidentally switched assignments with a friend to let him take the flight to PIT so he could screw his girlfriend all day only to find she was surprising him by taking the flight.

It was a 707. I assume this is movie stupidity and TWA didn't fly the 707 to PIT, as an international carrier and all.
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CO7e7
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:52 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Thread starter):
It was a 707. I assume this is movie stupidity and TWA didn't fly the 707 to PIT, as an international carrier and all.

Could you name one movie where everything involving aviation (airports, aircrafts ...etc...) was accurate ?

I personally don't know any.
 
ikramerica
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:54 am

Did I SAY movies were accurate? I was just ASKING if they even flew this route, let alone with a 707. You never know. I was 10 years away from being born in 1963.
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knope2001
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:00 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Thread starter):
It was a 707. I assume this is movie stupidity and TWA didn't fly the 707 to PIT, as an international carrier and all.

Sure they did probably did. Unlike Pan Am which was all international until after deregulation and the purchase of National, TWA had a large domestic system spanning the middle of the country from (roughly) New York to St Louis to Albuquerque to Los Angeles. PIT was a significant station for TWA, at that point perhaps 20 or so flights per day (I don't have any reference materials here). By 1963 there's a good chance of 707's on PIT-IDL.
 
N2111J
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:22 am

It's definitely possible they flew 707's into PIT back then. I can also remember seeing their 707's in PIT in the early 1980's, shortly before they were retired.

Mike
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:25 am

PIT was a major TWA station until deregulation and the advent of the Allegheny/USAir hub. As the 707 was TWA's first pure jet, and 727's arrived later it would surprise me if TWA DIDN'T fly JFK-PIT with 707's in 1963.
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ikramerica
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:30 am

So they also have a STL-CMH-IDL flight on this one, and an IDL-DTW-ORD-DEN flight (flight 4 ambassador service). He just accidentally put his GF on flight 4 and got hit on the head and couldn't fly it, so she's off, alone, again. Pretty dumb, but most comedy movies based on 60s plays are dumb.
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flyCMH
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:46 am

Quote:
It was a 707. I assume this is movie stupidity and TWA didn't fly the 707 to PIT, as an international carrier and all.

I don't see why not, especially in the 1960s. TWA flew them regularly into CMH during that era, so I'd imagine PIT would see them also.


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PanHAM
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:58 am

Definately, as you can see from the 1963 timetable

http://www.airchive.com/Timetables%2...aps/TWA%20Compressed/TWmap6307.jpg

I remember from vintage 60s TWA timetables that they had routings from JFK through PIT with aircraft like the L1049, CV 880 and 707, later 727s as well.
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NWADC9
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:06 am

TWA sent their 707's to PIT, as well as LAX, Chicago (Midway?), SFO, PHL, BWI, STL, MKC (Kansas City), and MIA domesticly.
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Tan Flyr
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:08 am

Most assuredly they could have been 707's. Growing up in Ohio in the 60's I remember seeing TWA 707's at DAY bound for even short hops such as IND/ CMH and such. Yes PIT was a major station. As late as 1981 I took a TW 707 from STL to CMH. I also seem to recall seeing Convairs (880's? or 990?)at DAY as a youth. Maybe DAYflyer would know.

Hope this helps.
 
PanHAM
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:19 am

Was CV880, TWA had no 990s. 707s in MDW I'd say no, they went to ORD.
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isitsafenow
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:55 am

Take it from a dinosaur..TWA send 707's to PIT and a lot of places in the USA back in the 60's. You have to remember the TWA route structure was more point-to-point at that time. Stations that resembled but were not hubs, were ILD/JFK, ORD, DAY, STL, and MKC(kansas city municipal). These were high traffic stations where people could change planes.
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timz
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:07 am

Airport Activity Stats shows the following TWA departures from PIT during 1963:

CV880 2185
707-120 1575
707-120B 535
707-320 380
707-320B 47

L749 6413
L1049G/H 1204
L1649 60

I suppose those totals include charters, and maybe cargo for all I know. Surely passenger 1649s weren't scheduled at PIT by then.
 
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knope2001
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:26 am

Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 1):
Could you name one movie where everything involving aviation (airports, aircrafts ...etc...) was accurate ?

Many years back when my group of friends saw tons of movies (we were old enough to go out but not old enough to easily get into bars) I recall seeing Outrageous Fortune with Shelly Long and Bette Midler. (Umm...not exactly my first choice.)

However the the movie will forever be dear to me because of an accurate airline detail that blew me away. The women were chasing their two-timing man and they convince a ticket agent to tell them he's on his way to Alququerque on TWA. (That would have been via STL in those days.) She likes their moxie, and so she helps them by saying there's a connecting flight on Eastern via Kansas City which they can still catch that will get them to ABQ ahead of the guy. THAT WAS EXACTLY TRUE! TWA's connecting flight via STL (I think they were leaving PHL or something like that) actually DID have a longer layover, and the EA flight via MCI would indeed still get them to ABQ first.

I've never forgotten that dopey movie and have brought it up many times over the years for an amazing accurate use of a trivial airline fact.
 
jsnww81
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:28 am

Prior to Deregulation, as OzarkD9S said, Pittsburgh was one of the larger stations in the TWA network. Certainly not the size of any of today's megahubs, but something more akin to a focus city. In 1971 TWA actually built an entire concourse at Pittsburgh (the West Dock) for its PIT operation.

Allegheny was obviously the biggest player at PIT, but United also had quite a respectable operation there prior to Deregulation. American, Eastern and Northwest were the smaller carriers. Mohawk and Lake Central also served PIT but were absorbed into Allegheny in 1967 and 1971.
 
Jumpseat70
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:27 pm

We used to fly Boeing 707's everywhere domestically. I had a JFK, CVG, STL, MCI, LAS run every week.

I recall it vividly because some passengers actually flew it from JFK to get to LAS. It was during the 2 drink maximum period per segment and we had to keep a count of how many drinks a pax had by the time they got to LAS, sorta of game, I'd say.

But in the 70's we flew our Boeings all over the place. The 747's were quickly replacing them on the transatlantic runs.
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Coronado990
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:27 am

Quoting Jsnww81 (Reply 15):
Allegheny was obviously the biggest player at PIT, but United also had quite a respectable operation there prior to Deregulation.

It's hard to compare Allegheny with TWA as one was a feeder airline and one was a truck carrier. United because a major player at PIT because of the Capital merger.

Anyway, I have a Sept 1962 OAG that shows the following Boeing 707's between IDL and PIT...

TW 97 IDL-PIT 900a 1018a terminated at PIT
TW 69 IDL-PIT 1200n 118p Orig BOS and continued to CVG STL LAX SFO
TW 139 IDL-PIT 915p 1033p continued to ORD MCI
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milesrich
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:56 am

I have always like the movie, and its theme song. In 1963, AL was a regional airline flying M-202A's and DC-3's with a few CV-440's. TWA was the largest carrier out of Pittsburgh with UA a close second. TWA flew many 707's both the fan and non fan in and out of PIT. There was never any 707 service to LGA, they only operated out of IDL and EWR. As far as a connection through Kansas City, EA, in 1963 flew to STL but not to Kansas City, and the commerical airport was MKC, not MCI. Mid Continent Airport in those days was home to the TWA maintenance base, but there were no scheduled flights into there. My first trip to PIT was in 1964 when I went to IPT to Little League Camp. MLI-ORD on a UA DC-6B. ORD-PIT on a UA 720 then on to IPT on an AL CV-440. The return was IPT-PIT on a TW L-749 all first class in the old livery, and then a TW 707 to ORD. And back to MLI on another UA DC-6B. For baseball fans, I spent Father's Day at camp and watched Hall of Famer, Jim Bunning pitch a perfect game against the Mets. The local station carried the Mets games as that Williamsport was a Mets farm team home then.
 
PanAm747
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:01 am

http://www.airchive.com/Timetables%2...aps/TWA%20Compressed/TWmap6307.jpg

On this map, dated from 1963, you will see a non-stop flight indicated PIT-IDL. As to what aircraft flew this route, I don't know. Too early for DC-9's and 727's, yes?
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Coronado990
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:03 am

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 17):
TW 139 IDL-PIT 915p 1033p continued to ORD MCI

The flight went to MKC you idiot!!!

Oh that was me.
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atct
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:59 am

Yea after asking my dad (Controller at PIT since the old days). He says they used to get TWA 707's and other large guys. (Pan 74's, Delta L1011's n such).


ATCT
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PanHAM
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:09 am

Quoting ATCT (Reply 21):
Yea after asking my dad (Controller at PIT since the old days). He says they used to get TWA 707's and other large guys. (Pan 74's, Delta L1011's n such).


ATCT

I'd challenge the Delta 1011, that was Eastern and the routing was ATL-PIT-BUF-YYZ. I did BUF-YYZ and vv on the 1011 a couple of times. PanAm 747 doubtful as well, but concerning TWA it is confirmed that the 707 in various versions was a daily visitor at PIT with many interesting routings.
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atct
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:23 am

Pan Am brought 74's here for training. Every night from what I hear. The L10's, after asking my station manager, were brought in here in the 80's (I work for Delta).


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ikramerica
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:31 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 19):

I guess in 1963, they just felt they could put circles anywhere in the midwest and it would be "close enough", huh?

That map is really skewed...  Wink
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vega
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:15 pm

Here's a picture of one in Pittsburgh -- early 60s.

http://oldterminals.topcities.com/pitcard4.jpg
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TWAAF9
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:26 pm

And don't forget that PIT was home to the first Ambassador's Club in the mid-1950s.
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ATAflyer
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Fri Jan 13, 2006 10:57 pm

YES, I was a passenger on a TWA 707 to PIT...JUN '75 as a student. It was a red-eye ABQ-ORD then early-morning ORD-PIT, same aircraft. They did have flights coming inbound from NYC as well, which were 707's, but not sure from which airport.
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Flaps
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RE: TWA Idlewild To PIT?

Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:25 pm

Speaking of TW at PIT, I wonder how things would have turned out without the air traffic controllers strike. At the time of the strike TW was in the process of building a major hub at PIT and US was just beginning its transformation from a small regional. TW had expanded from PIT to FRA and LGW, several Florida cities and nonstops to the west coast. Due to the strike slot restrictions were imposed and TW was unable to fulfill its growth plans at PIT. It then decided that one full hub was better than two partials and operations were consolidated at STL.