daddy1
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If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD or MEL?

Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:25 am

If SQ gets the go ahead to fly from Australia to the west coast of America, will Sydney be the hub they fly from, or maybe they will think different and take on say the mel - lax route...a penny for your thoughts please.daddy1
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pilotdude09
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If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD or MEL?

Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:36 am

Id have to go with sydney on this one, i think thats where the wanted to fly from anyway.
Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
 
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ClassicLover
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If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD or MEL?

Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:51 am

According to what I read in The Australian, IF they approve it, they will get BNE-LAX and MEL-LAX first, with SYD-LAX to come much later.

This could be out of date info though, as it was a few months ago.

Trent.
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sunrisevalley
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If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD or MEL?

Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:53 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 2):
According to what I read in The Australian, IF they approve it, they will get BNE-LAX and MEL-LAX first, with SYD-LAX to come much later.


What equipment would they use MEL-LAX ? Westbound, the -300ER would probably give them the best percentage of max payload .
 
N1120A
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If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD or MEL?

Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:57 am

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 3):
What equipment would they use MEL-LAX ? Westbound, the -300ER would probably give them the best percentage of max payload .

The -300ER would be fine for the route. It has plenty of range and more capacity than anything else in their fleet that would not have to take weight restrictions (with a 744, they would get killed on CASM by the QF 744ERs and A380s). Then again, if the A380 does meet range targets, they could use that as well
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cedarjet
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If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD or MEL?

Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:01 pm

No way are SQ (or anyone else) flying A380s from MEL or BNE to LAX. For one thing the flight there are back is so bloody long, 35 hours including ground time at the destination. You could do two SIN-SYD or SIN-NRTs in the same time frame. And the loads aren't even close to being there. 777 is the ticket. Although I didn't think SQ had much experience with long range twins, all their long flights (Europe, N America) are 747-400s. I thought the 777s were for SIN to Penang, Manila, Ho Chi Minh?
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N1120A
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If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD or MEL?

Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:12 pm

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 5):
Although I didn't think SQ had much experience with long range twins, all their long flights (Europe, N America) are 747-400s. I thought the 777s were for SIN to Penang, Manila, Ho Chi Minh?

Not true at all. SIN-TPE-LAX has been a 772ER for quite a while now. Also, when SQ had 2 A345s in MX, they were running the SIN-LAX flights non-stop with the 772ER and stopping on the way back
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jacobin777
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If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD or MEL?

Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:21 pm

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 5):
Although I didn't think SQ had much experience with long range twins, all their long flights (Europe, N America) are 747-400s. I thought the 777s were for SIN to Penang, Manila, Ho Chi Minh?

nopes.....SQ flight#16 (earlier flight) flies SIN-ICN-SFO on a 777-200ER....
"Up the Irons!"
 
tsentsan
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If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD or MEL?

Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:27 pm

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 5):
Although I didn't think SQ had much experience with long range twins, all their long flights (Europe, N America) are 747-400s. I thought the 777s were for SIN to Penang, Manila, Ho Chi Minh?

In addition, SIA operates the B777 to some European cities Manchester, Athens, Copenhagen and Amsterdam, and soon to Moscow.

Other long range SIA 777 flights around the world include TPE-LAX as mentioned by N1120A and SIN-CHC. I believe the previously operated SIN-AMS-ORD and SIN-HKG-LAS routes were also long ranged.
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planemanofnz
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If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD or MEL?

Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:27 pm

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 5):
Although I didn't think SQ had much experience with long range twins, all their long flights (Europe, N America) are 747-400s. I thought the 777s were for SIN to Penang, Manila, Ho Chi Minh?

SIN-AMS
SIN-CPH
SIN-Rome
SIN-AKL
SIN-CHC
SIN-MAN
SIN-CPT
Los Angeles, San Francisco and Vancouver all get 777's aswell.
 
jacobin777
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If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD or MEL?

Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:51 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 9):
Los Angeles, San Francisco and Vancouver all get 777's aswell.

SFO and YVR do, but for the winter season, SQ sends an A345 to LAX..

Quoting Tsentsan (Reply 8):
I believe the previously operated SIN-AMS-ORD and SIN-HKG-LAS routes were also long ranged.

that was on a 744 with AMS-ORD being very empty most of the time..I would like to see them start it again....maybe on a 777..maybe SIN-ICN-ORD would be good..
"Up the Irons!"
 
kaitak744
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If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD or MEL?

Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:15 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 10):
Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 9):
Los Angeles, San Francisco and Vancouver all get 777's aswell.


SFO and YVR do, but for the winter season, SQ sends an A345 to LAX..

No, SFO and LAX get all-year-round daily 747 and 777. LAX gets a 3rd flight (A340-500). The SFO 747 stops in HKG, the 777 in ICN. The LAX 747 stops in NRT, the 777 stops in TPE.

SFO=14 flights weekly.
LAX=21 flights weekly.
 
QANTAS077
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If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD or MEL?

Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:49 pm

as mentioned in a post, i also mentioned this in another thread, SQ will fly from Brisbane and Melbourne, it won't be for a while until Sydney is granted to SQ...it was expected to come last month, the govt here keeps defering the decision.
 
chrisrad
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If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD or MEL?

Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:59 pm

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 5):
No way are SQ (or anyone else) flying A380s from MEL or BNE to LAX

QF have stated they will be initially flying the A380 on the MEL-LAX route.
Welcome aboard Malaysia Airlines! Winner of Best Cabin Staff 2001,2002,2003,2004,2007,2009,2012
 
ZK-NBT
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If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD or MEL?

Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:44 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 10):
that was on a 744 with AMS-ORD being very empty most of the time..

It was a 772ER!
 
jacobin777
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If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD or MEL?

Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:51 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 11):

No, SFO and LAX get all-year-round daily 747 and 777. LAX gets a 3rd flight (A340-500). The SFO 747 stops in HKG, the 777 in ICN. The LAX 747 stops in NRT, the 777 stops in TPE.

SFO=14 flights weekly.
LAX=21 flights weekly.

correct, i should have been more comprehensive in my comments....(note- I didn't say that SFO doesn't get the 747-was responding to if SFO/North America gets a 777).....but I should have included your comments..

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 14):
It was a 772ER!

yikes, my bad.........maybe it was the fact I saw an SQ 747 cargo plane recently at ORD.....but it was indeed a 777....
"Up the Irons!"
 
6thfreedom
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If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD or MEL?

Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:32 am

SQ will operate the B773ER if they are granted rights to the USA from Australia.

As for the timing of the service and ground time.... well, lets just wait and see.
just because QF has aircraft sitting on the ground for over 12 hours doesn't mean that SQ will.

They are too smart for that.

They will rotate aircraft coming in from SIN i suspect. Also, let's not assume they will fly to LAX.

eg:
SIN-SFO/LAX-MEL-SIN
5:00p SIN 2 7:25p SFO I SQ 2 1-Stop 773 18:25
or
5:05p SIN 2 7:20p LAX B SQ 30 1-Stop 773 18:15

11:40p LAX B 8:55a+2 MEL 2 SQ ?? Non-stop 773 15:15

10:10a MEL 2 4:05p SIN 2 SQ 238 Non-stop 773 8:55

SIN-MEL-SFO/LAX-SIN

11:40p SIN 2 8:55a+1 MEL 2 SQ 237 Non-stop 773 6:15

12:25p MEL 2 7:30a LAX/SFO SQ?? Non-stop 773 14:05

12:30p SFO I 12:55a+2 SIN 2 SQ 15 1-Stop 773 20:25
OR
1:05p LAX B 1:30a+2 SIN 2 SQ 11 1-Stop 744 20:25


MINIMAL GROUND TIME, AND EXCELLENT UTILISATION IF U ASK ME...
 
Ansett767
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If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD or MEL?

Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:33 am

Plus Johannesburg does (or did?), and Athens!
 
QANTAS077
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If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD or MEL?

Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:41 am

looks increasingly like SQ won't get what it wants, and just as i thought, the hanging of Van Nguyen seems to have had an impact...as Howard said to Lee, 'there will be lasting resentment from our country' looks like those words are ringing true..

Government protects Qantas over US routes
From: By John Masanauskas
January 16, 2006

THE Federal Government looks set to protect Qantas and deny access to Singapore Airlines on lucrative US routes.

The Herald Sun understands that Singapore's controversial execution of Melbourne drug trafficker Van Tuong Nguyen has been a factor in the air rights issue.
Nguyen was hanged on December 2 despite pleas by Prime Minister John Howard.

Mr Howard, a strong supporter of Qantas, is also concerned about the prospect of job losses if Singapore is given direct flights across the Pacific.

Both airlines have been lobbying the Government, with the trans-Pacific issue to be decided in a broad review of national aviation policy.

Qantas and US carrier United Airlines are the only airlines with non-stop US flights on the routes.


http://finance.news.com.au/story/0,10166,17832850-462,00.html

[Edited 2006-01-16 00:43:34]
 
TG992
Posts: 2310
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If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD or MEL?

Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:22 am

I hope the news article is accurate. Call me biased since I'm an airline employee, but this step by Howard is a small step in the direction of protecting a large number of Australian jobs against the ever-present race to the lowest common denominator, the constant enviroment of nationalities undercutting each other, which if left unchecked will result in the complete destruction of the Australian middle class (which I understand is already under threat with Howard's recent labour law reforms).

Why should SQ grow into a worldwide giant at the cost of tens of thousands of local jobs, just so we can pay $20 less for our once-a-year air ticket? It just doesn't make sense..
-
 
zvezda
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If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD or MEL?

Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:08 am

SQ would probably choose the B777-300ER for MEL-LAX and the B777-200ER for BNE-LAX -- if they operate the routes.
 
dalecary
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If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD or MEL?

Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:02 pm

There's always the likelihood that Virgin Blue will create a LH international arm to service these routes and Jetstar will use their 787s Trans-Pacific from 2008.
So, it's not like no SQ and no further competition.
 
docpepz
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RE: If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD Or MEL?

Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:17 pm

So if SQ gets the rights to fly a daily service from Australia to the USA, tens of thousands of Australian jobs will be lost, Howard says. That's a lot of credit Howard is giving SQ!

Tens of thousands of Singaporean jobs have not been lost as a result of QF flying 24 times a week from Singapore to Europe. SQ hasn't bled as a result.

Just shows that the Australian government is willing to sacrifice trade over a convicted drug traffiker

If Australian workers were competitive and could stand on their own two feet, they wouldn't need their government to protect them. Instead they would look at restructuring their jobs and pay scales and upgrading their skills to enhance their competitiveness. Always remember that there are millions of hardworking people in China and India willing to do your job at a fraction of the cost with the same quality. That's what we're taught here in Singapore. No one owes you a living - if you won't do it, hundreds of thousands of others are waiting to do it!

In the larger scheme of things though it doesn't matter much to Singapore. Temasek Holdings, SQ's 56% shareholder has majority stakes in giant australian companies such as Optus, Australand and its huge property bank, SP Ausnet with its 100% ownership of Victoria's electricity transmissions network as well as ownership of prime real estate such as the Queen Victoria Building, Chifley Tower, One Martin Place, Shangri La Sydney, Westin Sydney and Melbourne and so on.

The above investments in Australia give Singapore revenue streams far larger than what a daily Sydney-Los Angeles service could provide Singapore. Far from destroying jobs, The Singapore Government through its stable of companies is the largest foreign investor in Australia, and directly responsible for tens of thousands of Australian jobs.

[Edited 2006-01-16 07:22:27]
 
QANTASpower
Posts: 515
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RE: If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD Or MEL?

Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:33 pm

Well thanks for the lecture Mr Docpepz

Firstly Mr Howard has said no such thing. Get your facts right!

Also I would say the execution of that young Australian born Asian bloke for drug trafficing would not even be on Howard's mind when making a decision on this one. I for one couldn't care less that the dirty rotten drug cheat was hung. We have a big problem here in Australia with drug importation from Asia. A lot of Asian gangs here in Sydney are involved in the importation of heroin so one less criminal on the street might be a good thing. While the left wing media may have had the violins playing the majority of Aussies were not too concerned.

Also I find your comments on Australian workers being uncompetitive very offensive. I suggest you go and read up on the performance of the Australian economy over the past decade before you start lecturing us on on our work practices and accepting Chinese pay rates.

As for foreign investment in Australia, yes it is encouraged, as it is essential for our economy. But only the right kind and our Govt has the right to decide what is in our best interest so do us all a favour and butt out.

We don't need a majority Govt owned carrier simple coming in and cherry picking the most lucrative international air route out of this country and giving nothing in return.

SQ gets alot more out of Australia than QF gets out of stopping off in Singapore on the way to LHR. Remember that.
 
zvezda
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RE: If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD Or MEL?

Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:30 pm

Quoting Docpepz (Reply 22):
So if SQ gets the rights to fly a daily service from Australia to the USA, tens of thousands of Australian jobs will be lost, Howard says.

The reality is the opposite. Australians would both gain jobs from significantly increased tourism and benefit from the increased spending power that would come from lower airfares. Increasing competition would be bad for Qantas but good for Australia.

Quoting QANTASpower (Reply 23):
SQ gets alot more out of Australia than QF gets out of stopping off in Singapore on the way to LHR.

Dubious.
 
cloudyapple
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RE: If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD Or MEL?

Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:19 pm

The australian governemnt has to be insane to let Singapore in. I'd give it to Virgin Blue rather.
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aukahkay
Posts: 64
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RE: If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD Or MEL?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:59 am

From what I gather, the Australian government is unlikely to grant SQ the lucrative Australia-US route. The trans-Pacific route accounts for 25% of Qantas' profits and I doubt that Qantas will want to give it up to a 3rd party. Besides, Qantas already has unlimited rights to fly beyond Singapore to Europe. Where else will Qantas fly out of Singapore?
 
daddy1
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 2:57 am

RE: If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD Or MEL?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:28 am

Thanks guys for your thoughts, if SQ dont get the go ahead from Canberra, would it be reasonable to think that the Singapore Gov. might put pressure on the Australian Gov. in regards to the slots QF hold in Singapore.Cheers Daddy1....
can I have an upgrade thanks..
 
BBD
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 2:12 pm

RE: If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD Or MEL?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:43 am

In response to Daddy1:
My opinion is that, if it came to a choice between SQ and maintaining Changi's position as a hub, the Singaporean government would choose the latter; in fact, if anything, QF suggesting that it would move its hub from SIN to KUL or the new airport at BKK could see the Singaporean government ease off its lobbying.
 
zvezda
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RE: If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD

Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:45 am

Quoting Daddy1 (Reply 27):
if SQ dont get the go ahead from Canberra, would it be reasonable to think that the Singapore Gov. might put pressure on the Australian Gov. in regards to the slots QF hold in Singapore.

It would seem more likely that Singapore would suspend QF's beyond rights until Australia reciprocate as promised.
 
sllevin
Posts: 3312
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm

RE: If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD Or MEL?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:13 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 29):
It would seem more likely that Singapore would suspend QF's beyond rights until Australia reciprocate as promised.

Is there any data out there that defines exactly how much traffic QF gets from Singapore? Be interesting to know what the real value of SIN is to QF.

Steve
 
airbazar
Posts: 6867
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RE: If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD Or MEL?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:29 am

Quoting QANTASpower (Reply 23):
SQ gets alot more out of Australia than QF gets out of stopping off in Singapore on the way to LHR. Remember that.

You wish. The fact that SQ has been a very succesfull airline for so many years WITHOUT offering OZ-US flights tells me they don't really need it to continue to be one of the top rated airlines in the World. QF however, wouldn't be nearly what it is today, especially on the LHR route, had it not been for their hub at SIN. I'd say QF needs SIN far more than SQ needs OZ-US.
 
aircanada014
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RE: If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD Or MEL?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:54 am

I think SQ would use SYD as their main hub and MEL as their secondary hub.
 
Simpilicity
Posts: 881
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RE: If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD Or MEL?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:14 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 24):
So if SQ gets the rights to fly a daily service from Australia to the USA, tens of thousands of Australian jobs will be lost, Howard says.

The reality is the opposite. Australians would both gain jobs from significantly increased tourism and benefit from the increased spending power that would come from lower airfares. Increasing competition would be bad for Qantas but good for Australia.

Spot on. All this rubbish about protecting QF. They should get competitive like everyone else !!!

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 25):
The australian governemnt has to be insane to let Singapore in. I'd give it to Virgin Blue rather.

I don't think you got it. From what we understand Polynesian Blue already have rights to fly to HNL, which presumeably means all of USA, plus doesn't any Australian or US & now probably Canadian airline have rights automatically to fly to the USA ???

Despite all the posturing, SQ still owns 49% of VS & so is very close to Branson. Branson looks likely to regain control of DJ. DJ only needs to upgrade their Australian AOC to larger aircraft to start nonstop flights Australia to USA from & to what ever city it wants. Apparently this process is relatively easy compared to gaining an AOC in the 1st place. SQ might come in thru the back door, by operating under a DJ flight number, it's all in the wording & the marketing spin doctors, eg.

Virgin Blue & SQ combine to offer you the best of both worlds, lower prices & the World's best service. SQ could wet lease aircraft to DJ.

Also, no one has mentioned Stoddart. He's operated old 742's, has an Australian AOC covering 737's which could surely be upgraded to take bigger aircraft.

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 16):
SQ will operate the B773ER if they are granted rights to the USA from Australia.

As for the timing of the service and ground time.... well, lets just wait and see.
just because QF has aircraft sitting on the ground for over 12 hours doesn't mean that SQ will.

Yes SQ run a very efficient operation & probably wouldn't leave aircraft sitting at LAX or wherever all day.

Why do QF leave aircraft sitting at LAX all day anyway? QF's continuing SYD/SFO service onto YVR, so why couldn't they do similar with aircraft that sit at LAX? Why not eg. YYC or YYZ? Rights SFO/YVR would seem to be same as LAX/YYC or YYZ?
 
HKGKaiTak
Posts: 971
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 9:48 am

RE: If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD Or MEL?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:53 am

Quoting Docpepz (Reply 22):
If Australian workers were competitive and could stand on their own two feet, they wouldn't need their government to protect them. Instead they would look at restructuring their jobs and pay scales and upgrading their skills to enhance their competitiveness.

Correct me if I'm wrong ... but what does Chinese workers have to do with SQ gaining rights to trans-Pacific rights from Australia?

Still, I'd love to see SQ flying to the US from here. As I've said before the whatever jobs might be "lost" from QF will easily be offset by extra tourism dollars inbound to Australia from Nth America. Inbound tourism has been hampered for too long by high ticket prices and low availability.

QF does need a swift kick up its backside. I'd love to see what the QF competitive responses would be when another top-notch airline gets rights to fly trans-Pacific on a large scale. Then we'll see exactly how much fat is in the US routes.

It's interesting how the industry that benefits most from globalisation is the one which is one of the very most protectionist and xenophobic.

Quoting Docpepz (Reply 22):
Always remember that there are millions of hardworking people in China and India willing to do your job at a fraction of the cost with the same quality.

Actually, I'd love to see an entire QF, SQ or JQ aircraft staffed entirely with Indian or Chinese flight attendants. Be an interesting social experiment ...  bigthumbsup 

Quoting Docpepz (Reply 22):
That's what we're taught here in Singapore. No one owes you a living - if you won't do it, hundreds of thousands of others are waiting to do it!

It's also called a method of control by the government and its corporate cronies to force you to do more whilst getting paid less, as they're getting richer and richer.
4 Engines 4 LongHaul
 
6thfreedom
Posts: 2616
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:09 am

RE: If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD Or MEL?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:37 am

Quoting BBD (Reply 28):
QF suggesting that it would move its hub from SIN to KUL or the new airport at BKK could see the Singaporean government ease off its lobbying.

I doubt that QF would go to the expense to move its hub to BKK.
Firstly, BKK is more expensive to operate to than SIN, and the move to KUL would mean that BA/QF would lose most of their business pax wishing to travel to SIN to SQ.
 
sunrisevalley
Posts: 4984
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

RE: If SQ Gets Aus-US Rights, Will They Hub At SYD Or MEL?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:55 am

After reading all that has been said thus far in this thread I must quote from a posting by Antares on Jan 2nd. that puts this whole matter into perspective..
quote.."This is not as much about trans Pacific rights as a reformed financial structure for Qantas. If Qantas gets accelerated depreciation allowances like SQ's, and a removal of the limit on foreign equity but continued restrictions on foreign control (common to most flag carriers) it will be in a position to effectively compete with all comers on any route. Its level of debt will decline through rights issues and a strong but should be stronger balance sheet will become a very formidable set of numbers (barring recessions, bird flu and similar unwelcome events.)
These issues are also included in the policy review, but receiving far less attention in the media.
The pacific rights thing is a bit of a charade compared to the real agenda".... end of quote.
Does what Howard said mean that the Aus. Govt. are not going to address the more important issues as outlined above by Antares?

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