ord
Posts: 1356
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 1999 10:34 pm

WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:27 am

The cover article in today's Wall Street Journal is about United and its strategy of differentiation/perks that most other airlines have gotten rid of. It's an interesting article. Key parts:

p.s. service - After the first year, flights are profitable because the 757s are 14% cheaper to operate and revenue is up 1%. Demand for first class is so great (full-fare first class ticket sales on JFK-SFO are up 37%) that additional flights may be added on the JFK-LAX and SFO routes. One guy, who was an AA frequent flyer for 20 years, switched to United p.s. because he got fed up with the cost cutting and service lapses at AA. He says for some people it's either United p.s. or a private jet.

Economy Plus - Upgrade revenue doubled last year and is expected to double again this year to $50 million. The program will break even this year, but that doesn't take into account the flyers United feels it would lose if it did away with the program.

Ted - Delivered an opearting profit with costs fully allocated, ending losses on some of United's busiest routes. Market share is up and Ted had an 84% load factor last year.
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:33 am

Here's a link to the online version, however this is a pay site:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1137...31145633.html?mod=home_page_one_us
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
pilottim747
Posts: 1577
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2001 2:34 pm

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:48 am

Quoting ORD (Thread starter):
Economy Plus - Upgrade revenue doubled last year and is expected to double again this year to $50 million. The program will break even this year, but that doesn't take into account the flyers United feels it would lose if it did away with the program.

The article says that John Tague, executive vice president of marketing, sales and revenue, did the number cruching and proved to the other execs that this program is worth keeping.

Pretty surprising that just the paid upgrades alone let this program break even. I'm sure that with all the elite travelers United retains due to Economy Plus the program makes a lot of money for United. UA and CO are normally voted the best for elite travelers (in the United States that is).

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Anne Deus
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ben Wang

Go United!

pilottim747
Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4477
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:54 am

I saw one of the A320's in the new scheme in SLC yesterday, almost (read ALMOST) made me wanna look on UA's site for a ticket. Nice planes though...
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
hoya
Posts: 454
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:25 pm

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:08 am

A lot of people have criticized and still criticize UA for diversifying its product. Though I'm unable to read the whole article, it seems like UA is proving its critics wrong and its strategy is succeeding. TED apparently is not failing, and P.S. has achieved its intended goal.

My only question about the EconomyPlus though is this: how much of that extra revenue is due to TED? Obviously the only 'upgrade' on Ted is from regular economy to economy plus. How much are the Eco+ upgrades helping TED's revenues?
Hoya Saxa!!
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13772
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:11 am

I think AA should take a note of this (though they aren't in BK). They offer a 3-class jet but are cutting back on 3-class service.

CO is fitting more and more 757s with BF seats, and my guess (not confirmed) is once they have critical mass there, maybe once they get the AVOD in, they will start to advertise BUSINESSFIRST EWR-LAX on all flights. No more 753 or 738 on that route.

I'd like to see CO try the economy plus idea. Currently their jets have X number of rows that are "blue" for elite customers, but it would be interesting if they were to pull out one row on most jets and offer 5 rows of 37" Y+ instead. Also, eliminate auto upgrade from full Y to F for silver elite, but place anyone who books full Y (or any elite who books H) into Y+ seats when available. Silver would still be eligible for standby and 1 day upgrade, but should be "happy" with Y+ otherwise. Gold and Platinum would still be automatically put in F if available, but would be in Y+ if F was not open at booking.

They need not alter seat width, either, just add pitch (and power ports on narrowbodies). On domestic and international flights, 37" pitch with a nicer seat and leg rest would be appreciate.

The reason Y+ can pay off with the few purchases seats is because unless the flight is filling up those final missing 6 to 9 seats, the added revenue isn't really missed, but the added revenue of Y+ and goodwill by offering more "premium" seats to FF customers is important. And internationally
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
FriendlySkies
Posts: 3540
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:57 pm

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:12 am

I'm glad to finally see some positive light on UA from the WSJ. This is a testament to the efforts UA has made in bankruptcy to improve it's onboard product and overall service levels, and those efforts have paid off big time. Way to go UA!

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 3):
The day every UA, DL and B6 employee see their airlines implode on themselves, I throw a BIG party

It's really sickening that you want to see all those employees out of a job...they didn't do anything wrong.
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2887
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:31 am

Quoting ORD (Thread starter):
Economy Plus - Upgrade revenue doubled last year and is expected to double again this year to $50 million. The program will break even this year, but that doesn't take into account the flyers United feels it would lose if it did away with the program.

How, in as few words as possible, is profit/loss calculated for Economy Plus? Any such figures would seem to depend on ambiguities and speculations such as "how many more seats might have been sold had there been an extra row or two or three of standard coach seating in place of E+?" Revenue from pax that might have been lost were it no for E+ would seem, if anything, an even more elusive figure to quantify.
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:41 am

The hard WSJ $50 million figure calculation for E+ has to do with the revenue premium over standard economy fares UA has been able to generate to get bums in those seats versus if the aircraft simply had regular Econ seats.
Basically E+ product has allowed UA to generate additional incremental revenues.

Indeed it is elusive to properly quantify what gain/loss there might have been without the E+ product, however feelings clearly are that the product has helped earn additional passenger volume and revenue then not having been offering the product.

While many have criticized UA, in my opinion they have done a good job in tailoring products such as TED, p.s., E+, and EXplus to specific market needs.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
tozairport
Posts: 463
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:01 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:04 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 3):


The day every UA, DL and B6 employee see their airlines implode on themselves, I throw a BIG party

You're a jerk. In fact (this is where everything I want to say to you would go, but the words I would use would get me kicked off A.net).

So in summary, you're a jerk.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:27 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 8):
While many have criticized UA, in my opinion they have done a good job in tailoring products such as TED, p.s., E+, and EXplus to specific market needs.

I have to agree with your assessment. They've certainly won me back as a regular customer after a two-year period when I avoided them if possible.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
flightopsguy
Posts: 299
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:51 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:49 am

E+ is offered by the CSR's and also when you check in using the kiosk. I would assume the offer ($) figures in whether the elites have already gotten their upgrades. My spouse (next to top elite) gets her upgrades the day before the flight. You can also buy a full year of E+ for you and a companion...dunno what the price is...maybe $100? Anyway, it guarantees you E+ seats if they are available.
A300-330 BAC111/146/J31/41 B99/1900 CV580 B707-777 DC8/9/10 L188/1011 FH227/28/100 SB340 DO228 EMB2/170 CR2-900 SH330-60
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 11866
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:55 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 6):
I'm glad to finally see some positive light on UA from the WSJ. This is a testament to the efforts UA has made in bankruptcy to improve it's onboard product and overall service levels, and those efforts have paid off big time. Way to go UA!

Focusing on the positive, I'm very happy to see UA has found a proactive niche and is profiting from it.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
CO is fitting more and more 757s with BF seats, and my guess (not confirmed) is once they have critical mass there, maybe once they get the AVOD in, they will start to advertise BUSINESSFIRST EWR-LAX on all flights. No more 753 or 738 on that route.

I agree CO should get on that premium market too (fits in with their overall strategy). However, I could see the 738's upgraded with BF (if they don't have it already) and kept on the route to keep frequency. The 753's... I'm not sure where their ideal home is...

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
Lumberton
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:09 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 12):
Focusing on the positive, I'm very happy to see UA has found a proactive niche and is profiting from it.

Could this be...I mean, could the U.S. carriers be "rediscovering" onboard service?
 Wink

This is great publicity for UA when they really need it. I could NEVER imagine the U.S. aviation landscape without United Air Lines.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4477
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:09 am

It would be a good thing to see CO fitting 738's on the EWR-LAX route with BusinessFirst exclusively. I believe the 757-300's are just used for routes that need extra capacity, such as Florida or Las Vegas perhaps?

Quote:
It's really sickening that you want to see all those employees out of a job...they didn't do anything wrong.



It's not the people I want out of their jobs. Its those specific companies. I stand to make quite a bit if those three companies fold.
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
CTHEWORLD
Posts: 463
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:27 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:59 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 14):
It's not the people I want out of their jobs. Its those specific companies. I stand to make quite a bit if those three companies fold.

great, so 120,000 people lose their jobs/have their lives completely disrupted just so you can make a buck? You are one sick, greedy individual!
 
hoosiercfi
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:16 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:14 am

I still think that the article should have mentioned UA's international business product is below most other international carrier. Any more, it doesn't take much to be the best US carrier.
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4477
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:19 am

Look,

when/IF those airlines fail, the employees might apply at CO and/or F9, if they get hired, which would be great, then thats great. No matter how it turns out, I'm laughing all the way to the bank.  laughing 
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
commavia
Posts: 9816
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:23 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
I think AA should take a note of this (though they aren't in BK). They offer a 3-class jet but are cutting back on 3-class service.

Money talks.

While I'm happy for United and its dedicated employees if they have found a 3-class transcon product they are happy with, but American has seen absolutely no hit from United's introduction of p.s. American has seen no impact whatsoever from the new United product.
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4477
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:29 am

Could it be because UA is using a smaller plane on the route? Or there's just THAT much demand from JFK to the West Coast? I've never actually looked at AA's routes from JFK
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:09 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 19):
Could it be because UA is using a smaller plane on the route? Or there's just THAT much demand from JFK to the West Coast? I've never actually looked at AA's routes from JFK

JFK-SFO=5x/daily-2X763's and 3x762's.......7:15 a.m. to 6:00 p.m.
JFK-LAX=11x/daily-all 762's...7:00 am to 7:00 p.m.
JFK-SEA=1x/daily-757-200

no direct JFK-PDX, JFK-LAS, and JFK-DEN flights
"Up the Irons!"
 
tozairport
Posts: 463
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:01 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:18 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 14):
It's not the people I want out of their jobs. Its those specific companies. I stand to make quite a bit if those three companies fold.



Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 17):
No matter how it turns out, I'm laughing all the way to the bank.

My God, man. You had better duck because your head is so over-inflated that it has it's own gravitational pull. You're likely to get hit by an asteroid or something. UA is not going anywhere. In fact, with UA exiting BK within days, WN coming to DEN, and you being a consultant for them, F9 is most likely doomed. Then UA will buy CO and you will be looking for a jobby job at Walmart. Now THAT will be the happiest day of my life!  bigthumbsup 
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4477
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:38 am

Hence why i said IF those airlines fail. I doubt they will.
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
EWROwznj00
Posts: 140
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:31 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:19 pm

Quoting HoosierCFI (Reply 16):
I still think that the article should have mentioned UA's international business product is below most other international carrier. Any more, it doesn't take much to be the best US carrier.

As far as I know, the international business product hasn't been upgraded in a while. Hopefully, when they have their house in order, they can work on that. Does anyone know how UA is performing on their international routes?
Yes, there is a typo in my username. No need to point it out.
 
tcfc424
Posts: 444
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2003 11:56 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:33 pm

I don't think the figures would be that ambiguous. In accounting, things are taken into consideration including average load factor, upgrades to F, etc. These things are quantifiable and could easily be figured when you have the numbers in front of you. What is hard to compute is how many loyal passengers the program has gained/lost...passengers can take surveys, but for most Americans, the company that gets the business is the one with the lowest price (excepting of course business travelers).

I believe CO is using 753's on heavy routes that are low yield...no reason to upgrade John Q. Traveler because we are oversold in Y and way undersold in F...I believe the official term is yield management. I flew on a CO 753 from LAX to IAH in late 2004 and found it very nice, especially compared to the DL 762 from OGG to LAX...like night and day.
 
gkpetery
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 3:35 pm

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:40 pm

GO UAL!!!! I've flown p.s. and Ted and I think they do a great job at both ends of the spectrum. If I'm flying a long-haul flight like LAX-JFK, I want to have a better service and the 757 is way better than a 767 in 3 class configuration. And LAX-LAS.... who really needs first class? Come on? If you're that snooty.... get a private plane or a limo to just drive you to Vegas!
 
United737522
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:33 pm

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:08 pm

UA upgraded me to E+ on a 777 without even letting me know. There was a problem since I had lost the original seat I had due to an error on their part. I just checked my seat assignments one day and saw it had been changed! UA has my business and my family's.
'Michael Mooronism' ~Jetjack74
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:21 pm

Quoting United737522 (Reply 26):
UA upgraded me to E+ on a 777 without even letting me know. There was a problem since I had lost the original seat I had due to an error on their part. I just checked my seat assignments one day and saw it had been changed! UA has my business and my family's.

I flew UA in the 90's trans-Atlantic a boat-load of times...a few years later, when I checked the status of my UA FF miles, much to my dismay, they said I had NONE, ZERO, ZILCH.....in fact, they said I don't even have an account with them (funny, they mentioned that to me as I was looking at my white UA FF card with the FF# as I was speaking with a rep)....now to be honest, I never bothered to check my mail (physical, as UA didn't really have good web services back in the mid to late 90's)....but I assumed the miles would accrue in my account...

I even had my old boarding passes, ect. to show that I had taken those flights..but they said too much time had expired..

well..for their lack of treating me as a loyal customer (plus their transatlantic services sucked..most of the F/A's were rude and "I don't care attitude")......I switched to AA

funny thing is that 60% of my commute is from 2 of UA's largest operations..SFO-ORD.....but UA doesn't see one dollar from me....

now I'm an AA Executive Platinum Member..and they see thousands of  dollarsign  of yearly business from me, and I go out of my way to avoid UA...

that's my experience with UA
"Up the Irons!"
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4477
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:40 pm

Jacobin777,

Ive had the same experiences on United during the 90's. The service was hideous, and Ive sworn off flying UAL because of several JFK-LAX and SFO-BOS flights that went bad. CO gets my money, even now out of SLC, I have the mandatory IAH stop, it's no problem, as long as its not on UA.
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
markabcan
Posts: 199
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:35 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:59 pm

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 7):
How, in as few words as possible, is profit/loss calculated for Economy Plus? Any such figures would seem to depend on ambiguities and speculations such as "how many more seats might have been sold had there been an extra row or two or three of standard coach seating in place of E+?" Revenue from pax that might have been lost were it no for E+ would seem, if anything, an even more elusive figure to quantify.

That is a very complicated question and there are many answers! It probably involves a Net Present Value calculation of the cost of implementing the program and any associated opportunity costs. This would be compared with the estimated NPV of the extra revenue generated by the program and then either a positive or negative number would be generated. Can be very tedious but this method will provide a good idea of its profitably and is used often!
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18263
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:10 pm

Quoting Tozairport (Reply 21):
F9 is most likely doomed.

Since Frontier has been gaining market share at DEN since Ted first started flying, i wonder why they are doomed?

 Smile

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
UAL777UK
Posts: 2142
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:16 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:12 pm

Quoting HoosierCFI (Reply 16):
still think that the article should have mentioned UA's international business product is below most other international carrier. Any more, it doesn't take much to be the best US carrier.

They will start to upgrade the fleet especially international later in the year with the capital expenditure ($400m) they have set aside. Once those products are in place look for UA to not only raise the game on the inflight experience.

Also a few more international routes will follow as well.
 
Mainliner
Posts: 360
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:34 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:04 am

Nice to see UA getting shown in a positive light, for once. I've always felt that they are one of the only carriers to maintain a level of class and sophistication once found at all airlines. We talked about this article in class yesterday, and I think this strategy will work well for them; they know how to treat their passengers and make them keep coming back. I can't wait until they emerge as a stronger, more efficient player than ever before!
Every flight counts.
 
ual777
Posts: 1510
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:22 am

UA overall has a much better standard of service than AA.

I just got back from MDE(missed the a380 by 1 day because they had engine problems before they came thus delaying the arrival by 72 hours...AAAAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!).

...Anyway, on MDE-MIA I was in row 9 which has AWESOME legroom because it is an exit row. The seats SUCKED, the movie was "October Sky", and the flight attendant spent the entire flight saying things like
"I feel like Im the ONLY one working THIS cabin," so that everyone could hear. I have this experiance on about 50 percent of AA flights I am on.

Then during meal service, I asked for a diet pepsi and when she gave me the cup I asked for the whole can and she said "No"!!!! WHAT?!

I needed the extra fluids because I was recovering from food poisoning (tip: do NOT eat at McDonald's located in Exito superstores in MDE!).

Anyway, my next leg was a Ted flight MIA-ORD. It was outstanding! The cabin was spotless, the seats on UA are extremely comfortable, the legroom was fantastic because I had a window in EconomyPlus, headsets were FREE, the flight attendant gave me the whole can of soda, and Tedvision was great. It was smiles all around.

UA has provided better CONSISTANT service than any other airline I have flown on more than 4 times in the past 2 years. (WN, CO, AA)
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
nbseer
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:48 pm

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:38 am

United won me as a big fan when, at check-in at Narita, my daughter and I were cheerfully upgraded to Economy Plus at no extra charge for our flight to JFK.

This was in March 2005, at the height of the battle over employee give-backs, threatened strikes by flight attendants, etc. But we were impressed by the high level of service shown by all the United employees we encountered.

Congratulations on turning your airline around.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:56 am

WesternA318....maybe their service has improved over the years....one day I'll give them a try again......
"Up the Irons!"
 
CTHEWORLD
Posts: 463
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:27 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sun Jan 15, 2006 1:13 am

Quoting HoosierCFI (Reply 16):
I still think that the article should have mentioned UA's international business product is below most other international carrier. Any more, it doesn't take much to be the best US carrier.

Read the other articles out there, wherein i t highlights UAL will be spending $400mil on product improvements, mostly on International Business and First.
 
CTHEWORLD
Posts: 463
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:27 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sun Jan 15, 2006 1:20 am

One day in the 70's I was flying on CO and my meal was cold, so I swore them off. One time on the 80's HP was late, so I swore them off. One time on the 90's my low fuel light came on in my Camry, so I stopped buying Toyotas...yada yada yada....you guys are too fuggin much!
 
cgnnrw
Posts: 1048
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 3:11 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sun Jan 15, 2006 1:47 am

Quoting CTHEWORLD (Reply 37):
One day in the 70's I was flying on CO and my meal was cold, so I swore them off. One time on the 80's HP was late, so I swore them off. One time on the 90's my low fuel light came on in my Camry, so I stopped buying Toyotas...yada yada yada....you guys are too fuggin much!

BRAVO!!!!!!!  rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 
A330 man.
 
tozairport
Posts: 463
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:01 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:25 am

Quoting CTHEWORLD (Reply 37):
you guys are too fuggin much!

CTHEWORLD - That was perfect! Well said!

Quoting Mariner (Reply 30):
Since Frontier has been gaining market share at DEN since Ted first started flying, i wonder why they are doomed?

The main reason they are doomed is because they have ego-boy WesternA318 consulting for them. Otherwise, they would be fine.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
 
SNATH
Posts: 3049
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:23 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:48 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 27):

I flew UA in the 90's trans-Atlantic a boat-load of times...a few years later, when I checked the status of my UA FF miles, much to my dismay, they said I had NONE, ZERO, ZILCH.....in fact, they said I don't even have an account with them (funny, they mentioned that to me as I was looking at my white UA FF card with the FF# as I was speaking with a rep)....now to be honest, I never bothered to check my mail (physical, as UA didn't really have good web services back in the mid to late 90's)....but I assumed the miles would accrue in my account...

Jacobin777,

For what it is worth:

Work forces me to mainly fly on AA. I have just under 115,000 miles with them. They expire on 01/01/09. So, if I forget about my miles and I check them "a few years later" I'll have none, zero, zilch.

You can fly whoever you want. You like AA, good for you. I'm just trying to say that, if you had flown on AA transatlantic in the 90s, it's very likely that you'd be now a UA frequent flyer instead of an AA one because AA would have most likely expired your miles too.

Regards,

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:18 am

Quoting SNATH (Reply 40):

Jacobin777,

For what it is worth:

Work forces me to mainly fly on AA. I have just under 115,000 miles with them. They expire on 01/01/09. So, if I forget about my miles and I check them "a few years later" I'll have none, zero, zilch.

You can fly whoever you want. You like AA, good for you. I'm just trying to say that, if you had flown on AA transatlantic in the 90s, it's very likely that you'd be now a UA frequent flyer instead of an AA one because AA would have most likely expired your miles too.

Snath..I flew AA qutie a bit in the 90's also, and that is why I decided change fully from UA to AA (not saying that traveling on AA is like first class on SQ, but for practical purposes, it was much better than UA).....I was only giving my experiences on UA..I really could care less if people are taking the piss out of my example....

cheers.... wave 

and by the way, about AA's FF milage expiring, they always rollover...my mom has flown AA once in 10 years and she hasn't lost any FF milage yet...
"Up the Irons!"
 
sumsonic
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:25 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:09 am

Quoting Pilottim747

"The article says that John Tague, executive vice president of marketing, sales and revenue, did the number cruching and proved to the other execs that this program is worth keeping.

Pretty surprising that just the paid upgrades alone let this program break even. I'm sure that with all the elite travelers United retains due to Economy Plus the program makes a lot of money for United. UA and CO are normally voted the best for elite travelers (in the United States that is)."

I’d more likely say how John Tague did a snow job on the other execs. Do you even know what those numbers showed? Unless you were in those meetings or seen the complete presentation you probably don’t. What I can tell you is that this number crunching included unethical number fudging to make the results look in favor of the product. You know like taking INTENT TO REPURCHASE and blowing the number out of the realm of reality by ignoring common sense (like applying the variable of loosing ALL Premiers and Premiers Execs to AA and other airlines if the product was removed), depressing the marginal fares in international economy to $75 one-way and domestic significantly lower than that. But hey, the company is making $50 million in additional revenue. God forbid that John would show you that the incremental revenue from putting the seats back on the airplane generates $125 million extra even with those fouled up marginal fares. Forget the fact that INTENT TO REPURCHASE is some made up number in the never, never land of marketing which Mr. Cary touts everytime someone from the ops side wants to take away his money spending product. Could it be that Mr. Cary had something to do with AAs MRTC product and was at the loosing end of the efficiency stick. It could not be all those things because John’s track record speaks for itself. He is a genius when it comes to Airline Management.  Wink

Speaking of p.s., the writer should double check their facts. P.s. has not made a fully allocated profit in all of the months except one. In airline management terms it called loosing less than the alternative. It is true that the revenue is flat or slightly up, but when the 767s were driving -30% margins because of their huge costs, the p.s. 757s are still unprofitable.

As for Ted, well it simply proves that in the domestic US market the move is towards commoditization. The product continues to do well, but now you are hearing about increasing yields at the expense of LF. If that is the case, why have the extra seats if you start running 75-80% LF? The product becomes obsolete. In order for Ted to work, it needs high LF to make the margins.

Glen and the team have done a good job steering the company through BK. UA is getting out and the management team will get a nice bonus for it, but at what cost. For the time it took the company to get the things it got, versus what it could have achieved, I pray that UA does not make it back to court. Unfortunately carriers like NW will leapfrog UA on the cost side and the UA business plan will rest on $50 oil.
 
SNATH
Posts: 3049
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:23 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sun Jan 15, 2006 6:01 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 41):
Snath..I flew AA qutie a bit in the 90's also, and that is why I decided change fully from UA to AA (not saying that traveling on AA is like first class on SQ, but for practical purposes, it was much better than UA)

Good for you! But you did make it sound as if it was the FF miles that did it in your previous post. Anyway...

Safe flying!

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4477
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sun Jan 15, 2006 1:17 pm

Jacobin777:

I am scheduled to take a P.S. flight next month, we'll see how it goes, although as previously mentioned, I almost bought a ticket on UA the other day because their paint job looks REALLY sweet on the A320  Silly
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:17 pm

WesternA318....there is a good probabilty I'll be tyring them again this year too!

I have to admit, I like UA's new paint scheme.... Smile

have fun on your flight..


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Jacobin777

"Up the Irons!"
 
uadc8contrail
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:23 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:24 pm

Quoting CTHEWORLD (Reply 37):
One day in the 70's I was flying on CO and my meal was cold, so I swore them off. One time on the 80's HP was late, so I swore them off. One time on the 90's my low fuel light came on in my Camry, so I stopped buying Toyotas...yada yada yada....you guys are too fuggin much!

CTHEWORLD,
have held to my promise that i nor my family ever fly hp again after they screwed us(and 14 other paxs) in phx on xmas eve a few yrs back.....
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4477
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:31 pm

Thanks Jacob,

where are you flying to?
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
uadc8contrail
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:23 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:46 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 27):
now I'm an AA Executive Platinum Member..and they see thousands of of yearly business from me, and I go out of my way to avoid UA...

contradicting yourself arent you????

Quoting Tozairport (Reply 39):
The main reason they are doomed is because they have ego-boy WesternA318 consulting for them. Otherwise, they would be fine.

TOZ,
where have i missed that western is a airline consultant in this thread other than a cheerleader for a 3x bk carrier???

western,
you werent a consultant during the lorenzo years were you???????
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4477
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: WSJ: Article On United's Strategy

Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:49 am

LMAO UADC8,

I was only in Jr. High when Lorenzo left CO. They brought me on as a consultant from 2002 until last year. The only reason I consult with F9 is becasue they are a semi-local airline (close to SLC) and I have been buying quite a good chunk of its stock. That and the animals rock, lol.  thumbsup 

[Edited 2006-01-15 17:50:43]
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!