CRJ900
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Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:18 am

There are very few pictures of the CRJ900 in Air Nostrum (Iberia Regional) colours on the internet (granted, they've only had it for 6-8 weeks, but still...) but apparently the aircraft is flying regular services.

Do anyone here have any hot gossip about its performance so far?

Any suggestions as to why Air Nostrum delayed introducing the CRJ900 for about 5 years? They were one of the launch customers in 2000 when they ordered 8 aircraft...

 Smile
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levent
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:48 pm

When working for Denim Air in Spain (operating for Air Nostrum) I heard the rumour that Air Nostrum wasn't allowed by Iberia to operate aircraft with more than 70 seats. But don't pin me on it...
 
planemaker
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:11 pm

Quoting CRJ900 (Thread starter):
Any suggestions as to why Air Nostrum delayed introducing the CRJ900 for about 5 years? They were one of the launch customers in 2000 when they ordered 8 aircraft...

The CRJ900's first delivery was only 3 years ago to Mesa. FYI, Air Nostrum was not a "launch" customer. And it is true that Air Nostrum was limited by Iberia as to the size of aircraft they could fly.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
TriStar500
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Sun Jan 15, 2006 6:25 pm

Can anybody confirm that there is/ was a scope clause preventing ANS from operating larger types? There were wild rumors that the airline was supposed to get IB's old MD-87's in order to start a LCC-style operation a while ago, which could indicate that these limitations (if existing) have now been waived.

Additionally, ANS is leasing several WDL BAe-146's with about 90 seats each, so there must be at least an exemption for leased aircraft.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
planemaker
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:22 pm

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 3):
Can anybody confirm that there is/ was a scope clause preventing ANS from operating larger types? There were wild rumors that the airline was supposed to get IB's old MD-87's

A year ago Iberia and Air Nostrum were in talks to change the conditions of its franchising contract in order to start operating larger aircraft which limited Air Nostrum to using aircraft with max capacity for 70 pax. That must have led to the wild rumour about them getting IB's 109-seat MD-87s. Anyhow, they are now flying the CRJ900 (EC-JNB) in addition to the single leased BAe 146-200 (D-AMGL ).
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
acelanzarote
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:40 pm

Hi
Where is the CRJ900 planned to operate and when is the next one due?
A lot of the Iberia MD87 have passed onto Spanair now, so
will the LCC not now happen?

cheers
Acelanzarote
from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
 
RAFVC10
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:42 pm

This wednesday I will take the CR9 flight in it's sole route at this moment: VLC-SVQ. This aircraft surprised me because there are 7 rows configured in Business Class.

I only seen this configuration in the european Air Nostrum flights (where there aren't any difference on board between Business and Economy Class) and in the leased aircraft of other operators as WDL 142 and 143's.

I don't heard any nottice about to operate aircrafts of more of 70 seats but this aircraft could be the life-guard that BCN has waiting in the last two years.

Iberia is leaving routes as ZRH, GVA, DUS, HAM, HAJ,... in hand of YW aircrafts. If we compare the M87 or 320 that operated these routes with the CRJ or DH3 now flying is a great reduction in the seats offered in peak routes. IIs this new aircraft to operate the routes left by Iberia as mentioned???

I will explain this wednesday how CR9's are!!!

Regards,

RAFVC10
El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
 
TriStar500
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:51 pm

Quoting Acelanzarote (Reply 5):
Where is the CRJ900 planned to operate and when is the next one due?

I have also seen the CR9 scheduled on one of the daily MAD-SDR rotations.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
Thomas_Jaeger
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:30 pm

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 4):
A year ago Iberia and Air Nostrum were in talks to change the conditions of its franchising contract in order to start operating larger aircraft which limited Air Nostrum to using aircraft with max capacity for 70 pax. That must have led to the wild rumour about them getting IB's 109-seat MD-87s. Anyhow, they are now flying the CRJ900 (EC-JNB) in addition to the single leased BAe 146-200 (D-AMGL ).

Have the other three BAe 146s been returned to WDL in the meantime?
Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
 
RAFVC10
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:57 pm

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 7):
I have also seen the CR9 scheduled on one of the daily MAD-SDR rotations.

For this route Air Nostrum not operate this aircraft. CR9 sole aircraft is used in VLC-SVQ-VLC routes.
El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
 
Aisak
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:44 pm

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 7):
I have also seen the CR9 scheduled on one of the daily MAD-SDR rotations.

Well, that'd be news to me. YW has 3 Bae's wet-leased from WDL

143 for SDR-MAD-LEI (3x SDR-MAD and 1x MED-LEI)
142 for BIO-AGP
143 for BIO-VLC-AGP (and sundays 1x VLC-IBZ)

That was from september... I've seen the first 143 will be exclusive for SDR-MAD from march making 4x daily each way...

Its configured with 3 business rows... It really weird to see an IB business counter in SDR   since YW has always flown single class so-called "Regional business class"....

I don't see so much future to the biz class from SDR...

Quoting Thomas_Jaeger (Reply 8):
Have the other three BAe 146s been returned to WDL in the meantime?

I don't see BAe146's in the timetable for BIO-AGP nor BIO-VLC so i supposse there's only one left for SDR-MAD (how important we are )

Quoting Acelanzarote (Reply 5):
Where is the CRJ900 planned to operate and when is the next one due?

I bet they'll go to the routes previously operated by the Bae's or they will take over an IB M87 route like MAD-ZRH or much likely BCN-Europe routes


There are two great interviews with Carlos Bartolomeu talking about the future of aviation/Iberia/Air Nostrum and how Air Nostrum has become what it is now... (spanish)

Puede que no todas las aerolíneas sobrevivan a la reducción de márgenes Las provincias Oct23-05

Si Iberia se constipa, Air Nostrum tose El Pais Jan8-06

Let me quote the phases Air Nostrum has passed to become a suscesful Iberia Regional franchise

1) Fly low traffic routes (middle-sized spanish cities) to feed IB's MAD and BCN hubs
2) Fly European middle-sized cities to feed IB's MAD hub
3) (current) Fly point to point regional routes within Spain without transiting MAD (and he adds "without harming IB")
4) (future) Fly point to point regional routes between Spain and Europe

Although i see a 5th point which will be taking over Iberia's low density European routes from BCN now it's not considered a hub for IB (with CR9 being the key for that purpose)

[Edited 2006-01-15 14:48:01]
 
CRJ900
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:50 am

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 6):
I will explain this wednesday how CR9's are!!!

I'm looking forward to read that already  Smile
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
Orion737
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:06 am

Will Air Nostrum use the new CRJ900 to Melilla? can the airport there handle these jets?
 
Aisak
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:51 am

The runway is 4685ft long (1428m) so i don't think it can handle it

For today planning (monday 16) there are 4x ATR72 and 3x DH8-300 to AGP... quite busy but not too much. I don't think they plan to set a CRJ for a 112 nm route either

Altough they're are having baggage restrictions when the planes are full... don't know if the CRJ900 could solve this issue
 
Orion737
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:22 pm

So not even the 146 or the CRJ200 to Melilla? Do Air Nostrum/Iberia provide flights to Mellila from Madrid or Barcelona, airports that are further away and therefore would suit the CRJ900?

How much runway does a CRJ900 need? After all they are meant for regional airline operations so one would think that they could handle shorter runways!
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:48 pm

I've always read on here that the longer models of CRJ were underpowered. I've heard they have VERY slow climb and takeoff performance - also read somewhere about them struggling to maintain altitudes at near-ceiling levels.

I'll have a look/search and see if I can dig up the posts.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
levent
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:58 pm

The only airline that operated jets to Melilla was PauknAir with BAe 146's, until one of the two aircraft crashed approaching MLN. A far as I know the CRJ200 can't operate there.
The Fokker 50 was the only Air Nostrum aircraft that could operate Madrid-Melilla back and forth with a full load because of its good range. The Dash 8 couldn't do it because of its range limitations and no fuel in Melilla, and the ATR72 could only do it with limited payload.
I am talking about the time I worked for Denim Air in Spain, until January 2004, so I am not sure what the exact situation at Melilla is right now.
 
TriStar500
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:08 pm

Interesting side information about MLN, Levent.  Smile I'll be flying MAD-MLN-AGP-MAD in April, so I hope to learn and see more about this operation by then.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
acelanzarote
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:46 am

Does anyone know how many CRJ900's Air Nostrum has on order?


[quote=RAFVC10,reply=6]I will explain this wednesday how CR9's are!!!
Look forward to what you have to say.

Also how many more CRJ200 are Air Nostrum taking, see one
reported on Delivery At Birmingham UK this morning.

cheers
AceLanzarote
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TriStar500
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:33 am

AFAIK, ANS has 12 CR9 on order.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
rootsair
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:20 am

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 6):
n hand of YW aircrafts. If we compare the M87 or 320 that operated these routes with the CRJ or DH3 now flying is a great reduction in the seats offered in peak routes. IIs this new aircraft to operate the routes left by Iberia as mentioned???

This would be amazing....flew BCN-GVA on YW and got business class service! Amazing flight it was !
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
RAFVC10
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:39 am

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 20):
This would be amazing....flew BCN-GVA on YW and got business class service! Amazing flight it was !

Hi RootsAir,

sorry for the missunderstanding but YW, in european flights, serves all its flights in a sole cabin. You must book and issue a ticket in "C" class to GVA, HAJ, HAM, ZRH,... and think you will fly in Business Class, as same of all flights of Iberia (320, 321, 319, M87,...) but the answer is NOOOOOO!!!!!

The only difference between "C" class and "Y" class in all YW flights are theredemption of milles in your Frequent Flyer card and access to VIP lounges. Resuming, you may fly in your YW flight with an "C" class and at your side could be a passenger with a "Q" class (the lowest class in IB flights).

Very, very dissapointing...
El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
 
Arrow
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:44 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 15):
I've always read on here that the longer models of CRJ were underpowered. I've heard they have VERY slow climb and takeoff performance - also read somewhere about them struggling to maintain altitudes at near-ceiling levels.

From what I've read:

CRJ200 has no leading edge slats, and needs more runway. There's nothing wrong with its climb performance up to 15,000 feet, but after that it gets a little sluggish and takes time to get to the high 30s. They are certified to 41K, but very rarely ever get there. I think for practical purposes they top out at 38K.

CRJ700 has leading edge slats and has a take-off/climb performance similar to a 757 -- very sporty. CRJ900 isn't quite as sporty because it's heavier with basically same engines as 700. Both stretch models are much better performers than the original 200.
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CRJ900
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:22 am

Quoting Levent (Reply 1):
When working for Denim Air in Spain (operating for Air Nostrum) I heard the rumour that Air Nostrum wasn't allowed by Iberia to operate aircraft with more than 70 seats. But don't pin me on it...

Air Nostrum and BBD signed a big contract on April 10, 2000 for 29 Q300 and 15 CR2ER plus 40 options for all Q models, CR2, CR7 and CR9 (source: BBD Regional Update April-May 2000). If their "scope clause" allowed up to 70 seats, I wonder why they didn't order the Q400 and CR7... they would have been great assets, I'm sure... very economical too...



Quoting Arrow (Reply 22):
CRJ700 has leading edge slats and has a take-off/climb performance similar to a 757 -- very sporty. CRJ900 isn't quite as sporty because it's heavier with basically same engines as 700. Both stretch models are much better performers than the original 200.

The CR9 has engines with 14,510 lbs thrust, the CR7 was delivered with engines having 13,780 lbs but from 2005 the CR7 is delivered with the same engine powering the CR9 but derated to 13,790 lbs - apparently making the engine more economical. The CR9 now comes with an Enhanced Performance Package which allows better take-off and landing capabilites, increased payload and range while burning less fuel (source: Flight International, 2-8 Nov 2004 and BBD Regional Update March 2005).

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 19):
AFAIK, ANS has 12 CR9 on order.

Fantastic - that means 25 CR9s will grace our European skies eventually (Air Nostrum's 12, Styrian's 1 and LH's 12). Me like, yes  Smile
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RAFVC10
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:25 am

Quoting Levent (Reply 16):
The Fokker 50 was the only Air Nostrum aircraft that could operate Madrid-Melilla back and forth with a full load because of its good range. The Dash 8 couldn't do it because of its range limitations and no fuel in Melilla, and the ATR72 could only do it with limited payload

Sorry????? Only F50's operates MLN??? I see DH3, AT7 operating from MLN.
El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
 
TriStar500
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:47 am

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 24):
Quoting Levent (Reply 16):
The Fokker 50 was the only Air Nostrum aircraft that could operate Madrid-Melilla back and forth with a full load because of its good range. The Dash 8 couldn't do it because of its range limitations and no fuel in Melilla, and the ATR72 could only do it with limited payload

Sorry????? Only F50's operates MLN??? I see DH3, AT7 operating from MLN.

Please read again with more care, then you will understand that Levent is talking about payload limitations.  Smile
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planemaker
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:01 am

Quoting Arrow (Reply 22):
CRJ900 isn't quite as sporty because it's heavier with basically same engines as 700.

FYI, for commonality the 700 now has the same engine as the 900... CF34-8C5. The same goes with the gear and wing structure.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
rootsair
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:14 am

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 21):
The only difference between "C" class and "Y" class in all YW flights are theredemption of milles in your Frequent Flyer card and access to VIP lounges. Resuming, you may fly in your YW flight with an "C" class and at your side could be a passenger with a "Q" class (the lowest class in IB flights).

Very, very dissapointing...

sorry I don't get it.. I had booked SVQ-BCN-GVA with an economy class fare...and service was buisiness class...I mean I don't know what's disappoiting..if you could just explain to me again ?
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
CRJ900
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:29 am

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 19):
AFAIK, ANS has 12 CR9 on order.

I just looked at BBD's CRJ order list ending Dec 31, 2005 and they list that Air Nostrum has only ordered one CR9 - which has been delivered... Just one aircraft??? How odd...

Where did you get the number 12 from?
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RAFVC10
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:34 am

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 11):
I'm looking forward to read that already

Hi all from Seville,

Today I have flown with the new CR9 aircraft from VLC to SVQ. Great flight, great aircraft and all perfect. The take off has been little more longer than other Air Nostrum aircrafts but this aircraft could be the perfect starring for the left routes by Iberia from BCN. I can imagine a flight to ZRH, GVA, HAJ, HAM, DUS,... with this plane. Could be great!!!!!

As all flights of YW, the crew as same so professional.

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 27):
sorry I don't get it.. I had booked SVQ-BCN-GVA with an economy class fare...and service was buisiness class...I mean I don't know what's disappoiting..if you could just explain to me again ?

Sorry RootsAir but all you say is correct but for one person who buy a ticket in "C" class without any acknowledge about the Air Nostrum european flights configuration, it's a great dissapoint to think you have paid about 1000 Euros and at your side you have a person who only paid 200 Euros. This is my dissapoint.

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 25):
Please read again with more care, then you will understand that Levent is talking about payload limitations.

Sorry TriStar500, as you say, I don' read all the mesage . Sorry for the incoveniences.
El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
 
CRJ900
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RE: Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?

Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:11 am

RAFVC10: can you please tell us a little about how Air Nostrum has furnished the CR9 cabin... like, leather seats or cloth seats, how many lavs and galleys up front and at the back, does it have a roomy feel or not etc?

I find it curious that neither Air Nostrum or Styrian Spirit (Austria) mention the new additions to their fleets... Styrian already fly one CR7 since last spring/summer and have one CR9 coming - but not a word on their website. I thought all airlines love to boast about their factory-fresh airplanes...
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me