PPVRA
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Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:21 am

Today (JAN 15th) is the first RG flight to MUC, a 3X weekly service on Sundays, Thursdays and Fridays. Flights will be GRU-MUC twice a week, on Sundays begining from GIG onwards to GRU and MUC.

They also have since DEC15th added 6 new daylight frequencies to MIA and 4 to JFK.

But it's also a sad day because it marks the day RG will suspend their traditional NRT services (although it's technically tomorrow, IIRC).

Varig at NRT/NGO:


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Photo © Carlos A. Morillo Doria




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Photo © Kazutaka Yagi





edit: typo

[Edited 2006-01-15 18:23:24]
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LipeGIG
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:51 am

First flight to MUC will be operated by PP-VTI (up to now as Varig is facing serious shortage of aircraft) and as of Sat 14 at 18:30, Varig sold 4F, 10C and 266Y (overbooked on Y)

Also, RG CEO after talking to the New York judge, says that Varig will improve flights from Rio to the United States on june/july.

But they keep facing serious problems with their fleet (another 777-200ER is on ground, PP-VRF), and they keep without 2 772ER, 3 MD11 and 1 763 besides some, 733's and 735's. An agreement with Boeing has been made a couple weeks ago in order to put the M11's back to service on the next 30 days.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
LatinPlane
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:39 am

Sad, sad, sad to see that there will no longer be the proud VARIG flying accross the Pacific from LAX. Can you tell me if it is today that the last VARIG flight arrives into LAX from Japan, or is it till Monday? I just might go to the airport to see it.

 Sad LatinPlane
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2travel2know
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:43 am

I think TIJ could have been a good option for stop enroute to NRT.
Maybe decent cargo loads and some SAN passengers could have taken it to NRT or GRU.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
reyes27
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:45 am

What will happen to their NRT slots?
 
A342
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:48 am

Geez, I can´t believe they´ve actually managed to start GRU-MUC ! Let´s hope it will be a success.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
JJMNGR
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:44 am

Next flights to be stopped are going to be to AMS.
 
N1120A
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:50 am

Quoting Reyes27 (Reply 4):
What will happen to their NRT slots?

Who knows? They wanted NGO anyway to take advantage of the vaccum in the LAX-NGO market.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 3):
I think TIJ could have been a good option for stop enroute to NRT.
Maybe decent cargo loads and some SAN passengers could have taken it to NRT or GRU.

If you can't pull from LAX, where STAR partner United has a hub, you can't pull from Tijuana, which has no pull to Japan.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
2travel2know
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:18 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
If you can't pull from LAX, where STAR partner United has a hub, you can't pull from Tijuana, which has no pull to Japan.

The market was supposed to be GRU-NRT, not LAX-NRT, LAX - which itself is an interesting market for GRU - happened to be the stop enroute.
And about TIJ, don't Japanese companies have maquiladoras in the Tijuana area? Is there a cargo traffic between the Mexican side of the border and Japan? I suppose a TIJ - Japan flight would have been in the Mexican Government interest too.
Another question, is RG still flying to LAX?
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
pzurita1
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:25 am

Sad day for Latin American aviation. Only two airlines had ever ventured to Asia markets. Both were Brazilian, and both were forced to cease operations to that region.

Hopefully MX might be in China soon.
Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:47 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 8):
Another question, is RG still flying to LAX?

Yes, and they will improve the route to 5x weekly, and also on june to 6x weekly.

Quoting Reyes27 (Reply 4):
What will happen to their NRT slots?

I believe ANA will take care of them, they started NRT-LAX with 773. It's one
of the possible RG connections to Japan with Star partners.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
ghost77
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:52 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
But they keep facing serious problems with their fleet (another 777-200ER is on ground, PP-VRF), and they keep without 2 772ER, 3 MD11 and 1 763 besides some, 733's and 735's. An agreement with Boeing has been made a couple weeks ago in order to put the M11's back to service on the next 30 days.

Geez!! What a nightmare this is!! What other B777 is STD at the moment? BRB?

I heard Mexicana is willing to get a contract with AWAS for 3rd party mx in MEX for 14 Boeing 737-3/4/5s ex. RG as they are ending their leases and AWAS will take them back, will it happen? This is almost half of RG's B737, they currently have around 35 classic B737s.

Another question... why did RG ground it's EMB145 fleet??? Out from the 16, 11 are STD and 5 more have been taken by Brazil AF and from those STD 5 will be taken by Aerolitoral!!! What will happen to the other 6???

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 3):
I think TIJ could have been a good option for stop enroute to NRT.

Not possible, MEX government since 97 has a strong protection policy for mexican carriers. 5th freedom rights are not so easy to obtain.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 8):
And about TIJ, don't Japanese companies have maquiladoras in the Tijuana area?

Nope those are Koreans and Chinese with some business at TIJ-MXL.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 8):
I suppose a TIJ - Japan flight would have been in the Mexican Government interest too.

It's of interest a TIJ-China flight for the moment and probably a TIJ-Japan could come, but Mexico's government is pushing hard for MX to be the one in charge for the mission!!!

ghost77 APM
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centrair
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:19 pm

Maybe someday they will return.

I am sad as well. It was great to see their MD11s. Once they stopped flying here, we stopped seeing MD11s except for recently by Fed-EX and this summer by World. Soon they will return on regular pax service with Finnair.

Varig flights from NGO were always packed. Japan and well Asia lacks South American service. Maybe one of the Mexican carriers will venture into Japan and ofter a connection to South America. Or maybe LAN will venture this way.

I feel sorry for the large Brazillian population in this area. What used to be one stop to home, is now multi-stop, multi-day flights. Sat next a couple and their baby flying, NGO-HKG-ATH-MAD-GRU. But luckily both UA and AA serve Brazil and Japan, but unluckily every Brazillian has to get a transit visa to go home, that is one thing that killed the LAX-Japan service.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
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LTU932
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:53 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
I believe ANA will take care of them, they started NRT-LAX with 773. It's one
of the possible RG connections to Japan with Star partners.

There's also the possibility of connecting through Germany, specifically through FRA, where you have LH and NH present. This would be most convenient for everyone immigration wise.

Anyway, I'm sad that RG has axed that route. Had they rerouted through somewhere else, like FRA or MUC, they just might have saved it. But I do have hopes that someday JJ could fill the void RG left at NRT.
 
HT
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:57 pm

Apart from the possibility to fly via Germany (which is only a couple of miles longer), wouldn´t it have been a possibility for RG to make a tech´stop in YVR instead of LAX ? That way they would have come around the U.S.-visa problem ...
-HT
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Jamake1
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:13 pm

Silly question: Can't GRU be served non-stop from NRT...or am I missing something?
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LTU932
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:23 pm

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 15):
Silly question: Can't GRU be served non-stop from NRT...or am I missing something?

No. The distance would be almost 10,000 nm, which is out of the reach of any aircraft RG is currently operating. I checked that with the Great Circle Mapper.


[Edited 2006-01-16 10:25:12]

[Edited 2006-01-16 10:26:01]

[Edited 2006-01-16 10:27:05]

[Edited 2006-01-16 10:28:18]

[Edited 2006-01-16 10:29:14]
 
SailorOrion
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:57 pm

There's no need to continue flying to NRT for RG, as LH's MUC-NRT and also the MUC-PEK flights by LH and CA have pretty good connections.

SailorOrion
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:00 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 12):
Sat next a couple and their baby flying, NGO-HKG-ATH-MAD-GRU. But luckily both UA and AA serve Brazil and Japan, but unluckily every Brazillian has to get a transit visa to go home, that is one thing that killed the LAX-Japan service.

what airline flies HKG-ATH ???
 
Flying Belgian
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:17 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 12):
I feel sorry for the large Brazillian population in this area. What used to be one stop to home, is now multi-stop, multi-day flights. Sat next a couple and their baby flying, NGO-HKG-ATH-MAD-GRU. But luckily both UA and AA serve Brazil and Japan, but unluckily every Brazillian has to get a transit visa to go home, that is one thing that killed the LAX-Japan service.

Isn't JAL operating NRT-GRU via YVR ?

And indeed, I think that US Immigration rule partly killed the RG Japan operations...

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:23 pm

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 19):
Isn't JAL operating NRT-GRU via YVR ?

I think it is NRT-MEX via YVR and NRT-GRU via JFK for JL ... but of course I could be wrong ... again !
 
centrair
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:39 pm

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 18):
what airline flies HKG-ATH

Not actually sure if it was ATH. I heard them talking about their next flight not being MAD but some intermediary. They were on CX.

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 20):
I think it is NRT-MEX via YVR and NRT-GRU via JFK for JL ... but of course I could be wrong ... again !

That is right. NRT-JFK-GRU.

But the thing that was killing RG was not loads but U.S. Homeland Security and new Customs and Immigration policies. I believe Brazil is not a Visa Waiver country and as a result all Brazillians have to get a transfer visa for the U.S. That process requires interviews with at a consulate or embassy. Not good for business.

[Edited 2006-01-16 14:39:58]
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
rootsair
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:49 pm

Does RG to MUC mean RG will not go to ZRH but instead will codeshare its flights with LH from ZRH-MUC or ZRH-FRA ?
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
2travel2know
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:27 am

Quoting HT (Reply 14):
Apart from the possibility to fly via Germany (which is only a couple of miles longer), wouldn´t it have been a possibility for RG to make a tech´stop in YVR instead of LAX ? That way they would have come around the U.S.-visa problem ...
-HT

Would Canada require Brazilians passengers Canadian (transit) visas to fly via YVR to NRT?
Those foreigners which require Canadian visas to get into Canada, need visas to fly JL MEX-YVR-NRT.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 12):
Varig flights from NGO were always packed. Japan and well Asia lacks South American service. Maybe one of the Mexican carriers will venture into Japan and ofter a connection to South America. Or maybe LAN will venture this way

BR did fly TPE-LAX-PTY but when CM started PTY-LAX, they dropped the route. I would doubt BR would return to PTY if via U.S./Canada airport, the (transit) visa problems wouldn't make the route profitable.
About LAN, they fly to PPT, but I don't know if they've any interest in extending that flight to NRT (or other major Japanese airport).
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:42 am

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 11):
Geez!! What a nightmare this is!! What other B777 is STD at the moment? BRB?

PP-VRB and PP-VRF on ground at GIG. VRB due to the lack of one GE engine. VRF needs a new PW engine. Both are ER's. The other 6 772's (2 ER's) are flying.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 11):
I heard Mexicana is willing to get a contract with AWAS for 3rd party mx in MEX for 14 Boeing 737-3/4/5s ex. RG as they are ending their leases and AWAS will take them back, will it happen? This is almost half of RG's B737, they currently have around 35 classic B737s.

They have the same problem with M11 fleet. The judge can protect RG during the lease agreements, but when those lease matures, RG need to return the planes to lessors. They are trying to get some 752's and may be some 744's (info given by Mr. Botini, Varigs CEO during a presentation last week in CGH) but nothing confirmed yet.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 11):
Another question... why did RG ground it's EMB145 fleet??? Out from the 16, 11 are STD and 5 more have been taken by Brazil AF and from those STD 5 will be taken by Aerolitoral!!! What will happen to the other 6???

Varig return the EMB145 fleet due to the high cost of leasing, same as a bigger 733/735 during 2002/2003, so RG decided in favor of Boeing planes, bigger and could run all routes, bad decision IMO. Two brazilian airlines are looking for EMB145 grounded fleet, one of them should be Rico Linhas Aereas which hubs its operations at MAO.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 12):
I feel sorry for the large Brazillian population in this area. What used to be one stop to home, is now multi-stop, multi-day flights.

JAL keep runing GRU-JFK-NRT 3 or 4 times per week. No need to change planes but need to procede to US Aduana at JFK.

Quoting HT (Reply 14):
Apart from the possibility to fly via Germany (which is only a couple of miles longer), wouldn´t it have been a possibility for RG to make a tech´stop in YVR instead of LAX ? That way they would have come around the U.S.-visa problem ...
-HT

Could be, but Canada also requires transit visa (although it's easier to get than US transit visa).

Quoting SailorOrion (Reply 17):
There's no need to continue flying to NRT for RG, as LH's MUC-NRT and also the MUC-PEK flights by LH and CA have pretty good connections

Yes, and at this time, RG need the aircraft used on LAX-NRT to run other routes like MUC and more service to the United States.

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 19):
And indeed, I think that US Immigration rule partly killed the RG Japan operations

100% agree. It's not so easy to get a visa to the US. Rules are not so clear, and people need to come to São Paulo, Rio, Brasilia or Recife just to try.

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 22):
Does RG to MUC mean RG will not go to ZRH but instead will codeshare its flights with LH from ZRH-MUC or ZRH-FRA ?

Yes. Also FRA-MUC is possible with LH.


Felipe
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28L28L
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:48 am

When did RG begin service to Tokyo?
 
A342
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:55 am

Sure enough, after the flight to MUC had arrived alomst 2 hours late, it has departed on time.

I have one question though. After looking on MUC´s website, I couldn´t find the weekly 763 nonstop flight GIG-MUC (by RG charter) any more, yet the tour opeator still lists it. Has it been discontinued now that there are tag-ons from/to GRU on the scheduled service twice a week ?
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:12 am

Quoting 28L28L (Reply 25):
When did RG begin service to Tokyo?

June 26, 1968 with a B707-320 with 55 passangers from GIG. In more than 37 years of service RG estimated 2.5 million pax in around 18.400 trips.

Quoting A342 (Reply 26):
I have one question though. After looking on MUC´s website, I couldn´t find the weekly 763 nonstop flight GIG-MUC (by RG charter) any more, yet the tour opeator still lists it. Has it been discontinued now that there are tag-ons from/to GRU on the scheduled service twice a week ?

The provider of this service keep runing its website www.rio-direkt.de
and seems to be effective up to april 22nd. The RG9610/9611 does not appear in their schedulle as its a charter flight. But the flight could be droped in favour of the GIG-GRU-MUC regular service.

Felipe

[Edited 2006-01-16 23:31:33]
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
JAM747
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:21 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 16):
Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 15):
Silly question: Can't GRU be served non-stop from NRT...or am I missing something?

No. The distance would be almost 10,000 nm, which is out of the reach of any aircraft RG is currently operating. I checked that with the Great Circle Mapper.

I had a trend on this a few months ago about possible stops between Japan and Brazil. It seems like alot of people travel between the two countries. It would take a ultra long range aircraft like a B777LR, A340-500 or some future long range versions of the B787 or A350 to do it. It would have to be a very profitable route to invest in this . Otherwise even though there might be possible stops between the two points some of them are not feasible for many reasons.
 
ghost77
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:41 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 24):
PP-VRB and PP-VRF on ground at GIG. VRB due to the lack of one GE engine. VRF needs a new PW engine.

Interesting!!! What happen to VRB's GE90-90B engine??!! VRB belongs to ILFC, is RG responsible or ILFC for the repairment??? Is RG buying VRF's engine... what happen to that too? A new engine costs a lot of money!!!

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 24):
They have the same problem with M11 fleet. The judge can protect RG during the lease agreements, but when those lease matures, RG need to return the planes to lessors.

Oh boy!!! What a difficult situation for RG that is...!!!

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 24):
Varig return the EMB145 fleet due to the high cost of leasing, same as a bigger 733/735 during 2002/2003, so RG decided in favor of Boeing planes, bigger and could run all routes, bad decision IMO. Two brazilian airlines are looking for EMB145 grounded fleet, one of them should be Rico Linhas Aereas which hubs its operations at MAO.

So, is RICO adding those other EMB145s from Rio Sul??? Who else is looking after those EMB's???

A little out from the topic, what's the status or Vasp fleet??? Specially those B733s which could still find new homes... as same as few B732s or even those B727s freighters they had!!!

ghost77 APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:11 am

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 29):
Interesting!!! What happen to VRB's GE90-90B engine??!!

In fact PP-VRA face an engine shutdown during a GIG-FRA flight on october IIRC. It used PP-VRC engine (at that time under maintenance in FRA) to do a ferry back to GIG/Ceman where RG keep their widebody maintenance base. Last month RG put PP-VRA back to service with one engine from VRB as the last one need some maitenance.


Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 29):
VRB belongs to ILFC, is RG responsible or ILFC for the repairment??? Is RG buying VRF's engine... what happen to that too? A new engine costs a lot of money!!!

RG probably will buy a new GE engine to be delivered on April. I don't know the exactly condition of the PW's VRF engine, but i'm trying to obtain better info.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 29):
So, is RICO adding those other EMB145s from Rio Sul??? Who else is looking after those EMB's???

Rico is under negotiations, also for one 733 (they run nowadays only 732's), but not confirmed yet. The other one is the Brazilian Federal Police which will take only one (this is confirmed).

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 29):
A little out from the topic, what's the status or Vasp fleet??? Specially those B733s which could still find new homes... as same as few B732s or even those B727s freighters they had!!!

Vasp Fleet is grounded at Sao Paulo, Rio, SSA and BSB airports. Probably the 733s will run very soon under BRA colors (one is under paint and check at SJK). But for the majority of 732s and their A300s, impossible to see them flying again. I don't have good or valid information about the 727's.

Hope it helps you.
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
ghost77
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:39 am

Felipe!!

Thank you very much for your time and for giving me a bright and clear description of what's going on at RG and other Brazilian carriers. Oh lord, what a big mess and mix they have with the T7 fleet!!!

As for Vasp fleet it's good to know that at least a few frames will still be going back to the air, such a shame B737-200/B727s have found a new home yet!!!

ghost77 APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
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LTU932
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:28 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 24):
They are trying to get some 752's and may be some 744's (info given by Mr. Botini, Varigs CEO during a presentation last week in CGH) but nothing confirmed yet.

It would be somewhat ironic that RG would get some used 744s, since they phased out the 747-400 completely a few years ago. It would be strange for them to re-introduce a type they got rid off.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 30):
But for the majority of 732s and their A300s, impossible to see them flying again. I don't have good or valid information about the 727's.

If they're not due for a check anytime soon and if the acquisition costs are low, I reckon the 727s could go to Varig Log for domestic and maybe some international cargo runs.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 31):
Oh lord, what a big mess and mix they have with the T7 fleet!!!

Couldn't agree more.
 
Flying Belgian
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:02 pm

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 6):
Next flights to be stopped are going to be to AMS.

At my expenses, I have learned that the CDG-AMS-CDG leg was cancelled 60% of the time in 2005...

So no wonders RG fought to compete with a carrier like KLM...

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
EnviroTO
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:41 pm

It would be nice to see RG back in YYZ from GIG and that would allow connections on AC to Asia. Any possibilities of that? They haven't been in YYZ since the mid-90s when they were partners with CP as I recall. Currently getting to YYZ requires going to GRU or a connection somewhere else. Since RG and AC are now partners and AC is building YYZ as an Asian connecting point it would seem RG in YYZ might be more viable now than it was before.
 
A342
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:16 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 27):
The RG9610/9611 does not appear in their schedulle as its a charter flight.

I´m quite sure that it appeared in the MUC schedule earlier. Generally, in the MUC schedule, regular charter flights are listed (even if only bookable in packages), while ad-hoc charters are not.

If you want, I can mail you a flight schedule news letter (issued by MUC), and the GIG-MUC flight is listed. If I remember, I´ll check on SAT if the flight operates.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:27 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 32):
It would be somewhat ironic that RG would get some used 744s, since they phased out the 747-400 completely a few years ago. It would be strange for them to re-introduce a type they got rid off.

The market nowadays is different from 90's. At that time RG could get other planes like M11's or just drop some routes like BKK/HKG.
Nowadays, they have no routes to drop, and at this time there are no availability of 777 / M11 / 763 (not so old) to Varig. If they do not take a 744, they will be forced to drop 1 or 2 routes this year (besides NRT). It's strange but it's something that could be true. I repeat, it's info given by a high RG staff, not confirmed by any press release.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 32):
If they're not due for a check anytime soon and if the acquisition costs are low, I reckon the 727s could go to Varig Log for domestic and maybe some international cargo runs.

Could be, but i don't have any clear info on this issue. Also RG Log is nowadays owned by Matlin Patterson. Probably they will improve RG Log fleet very soon.

Quoting EnviroTO (Reply 34):
It would be nice to see RG back in YYZ from GIG and that would allow connections on AC to Asia. Any possibilities of that?

Due to the lack of aircraft, i don't believe. RG will announce new services from US to GIG on june/july, but i don't expect for this time even a YYZ-JFK-GIG.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
persotvik
Posts: 265
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:59 am

AY have recently taken an MD11 from RG. What was the RG reg. of this a/c.
To become OH-LGG at AY.
Just love flying
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:09 am

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 6):
Next flights to be stopped are going to be to AMS

Any more specific information? And what about LHR-CPH?

It is known that the short leg CDG-AMS has very poor pax loads, but corresponds for more than 50% of the cargo load. I'm sure KLM will be happy to have the monopoly of the AMS-GRU route again; KL load factor on the route is consistently over 90%.

Rgs,
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:43 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 35):
If you want, I can mail you a flight schedule news letter (issued by MUC), and the GIG-MUC flight is listed. If I remember, I´ll check on SAT if the flight operates.

I apreciate if you can do this.

Quoting Persotvik (Reply 37):
AY have recently taken an MD11 from RG. What was the RG reg. of this a/c.
To become OH-LGG at AY

PP-VQI (ex-Garuda PK-GIK, delivered to RG on Sep, 11 1998)
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/866611/L/

Last flight on Varig on 05SEP05 MXP-GRU-GIG, almost 7 years of service.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 38):

Welcome back!


Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
timz
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:12 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 27):
Quoting 28L28L (Reply 25):
When did RG begin service to Tokyo?

June 26, 1968 with a B707-320 with 55 passangers from GIG. In more than 37 years of service RG estimated 2.5 million pax in around 18.400 trips.

So what about that L1049G (?) flight that started around 1958? That was REAL, not VARIG?
 
TGV
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:22 am

Quoting Centrair (Reply 12):
What used to be one stop to home, is now multi-stop, multi-day flights

You can have a one connection flight using AF GRU-CDG and AF codeshare (operated by JL) on CDG-NGO.

But the connection in CDG is not very short (5hours/8 hours) so you end up with a total journey time of 28h50 eastbound and 31h45 westbound.
Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans. (AF/KL for example)
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:47 am

Quoting Timz (Reply 41):
So what about that L1049G (?) flight that started around 1958? That was REAL, not VARIG?

That's right. In 1957 Real keep 86 Douglas DC-3/C-47, 12 Curtiss C-46 Commando, 6 Convair 340, 6 Convair 440, 3 Douglas DC-4 e 4 Lockheed Super H Constellation. In this year Real was ranked 7th biggest world airline in number os airlines by IATA figures.
Varig bought on may 1961 45% of Real stocks from it's CEO. On august Varig bought another stake of 45% and took control of Real planes and routes, including Japan.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
PPVRA
Topic Author
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:13 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 30):
The other one is the Brazilian Federal Police which will take only one (this is confirmed).

ERJ-145ER:
http://www.defesanet.com.br/imagens/gov/dpf/fly/erj145_er.jpg
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Marambio
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:36 pm

Quoting Pzurita1 (Reply 9):
Sad day for Latin American aviation. Only two airlines had ever ventured to Asia markets. Both were Brazilian, and both were forced to cease operations to that region.

Let me correct you, Pedro. Aerolineas Argentinas flew EZE-RGL-AKL-SYD-HKG with 747-200 between June 7th, 1980 and April 1982, when it had to stop because of the Malvinas War (Hong Kong was a British colony at the time). So, three airlines ventured to Asian markets - two were from Brazil, one from Argentina. However, we agree on the fact that all three, for very different reasons, were forced to cease operations to that region.

On a sidenote, AR asked for rights to fly to PVG and to PEK. Right now sister company Air Plus Comet, also owned by Marsans, flies MAD-PEK and BCN-PVG. Authorities are currently evaluating the request.

Saludos,
Marambio

[Edited 2006-01-18 05:41:21]
Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
 
User avatar
LTU932
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RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:50 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 36):
The market nowadays is different from 90's. At that time RG could get other planes like M11's or just drop some routes like BKK/HKG.
Nowadays, they have no routes to drop, and at this time there are no availability of 777 / M11 / 763 (not so old) to Varig. If they do not take a 744, they will be forced to drop 1 or 2 routes this year (besides NRT). It's strange but it's something that could be true. I repeat, it's info given by a high RG staff, not confirmed by any press release.

Thanks for the explanation, Felipe. It would be great to see an RG 744 sometime again, if RG confirms it will happen. Still very ironic though.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 36):
Could be, but i don't have any clear info on this issue. Also RG Log is nowadays owned by Matlin Patterson. Probably they will improve RG Log fleet very soon.

If they go the same path FX and 5X have gone as far as 727 utilisation, they could continue on for some time to come.

- Richie
 
UpperDeck79
Posts: 1062
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:14 pm

RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:13 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 39):
Quoting Persotvik (Reply 37):
AY have recently taken an MD11 from RG. What was the RG reg. of this a/c.
To become OH-LGG at AY

PP-VQI (ex-Garuda PK-GIK, delivered to RG on Sep, 11 1998)
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/8...11/L/

Ironically, that aircraft made it's first commercial flight in AY colours today - to NRTBig grin Arriving back to HEL about right now.
AY and ANA rock!
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:18 pm

Quoting Marambio (Reply 44):
Let me correct you, Pedro. Aerolineas Argentinas flew EZE-RGL-AKL-SYD-HKG with 747-200 between June 7th, 1980 and April 1982, when it had to stop because of the Malvinas War (Hong Kong was a British colony at the time). So, three airlines ventured to Asian markets - two were from Brazil, one from Argentina. However, we agree on the fact that all three, for very different reasons, were forced to cease operations to that region.

are you sure - I thought that HKG was a separate service from the EZE-RGL-AKL-SYD flight - I don't recall it ever coming through AKL - I was certain that it went through North America ( LAX ???)
 
LipeGIG
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:13 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 45):
If they go the same path FX and 5X have gone as far as 727 utilisation, they could continue on for some time to come.

Could be Richie, and i believe it will be easy for RG to get some 727's than the M11. Incredible how M11 is loved by cargo operators.
With more planes (to take care of MAO cargo needs for example), and money, RG Cargo could face in the next 2 years a strong development/improvement.

Hope to see them with more planes.

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 46):
Ironically, that aircraft made it's first commercial flight in AY colours today - to NRT! Arriving back to HEL about right now.

Really funny, thanks for this information. Seems that at least ex-RG planes keep in touch with NRT.

Good to Japan, they will keep M11 pax service, a fantastic plane.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Marambio
Posts: 1145
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:41 am

RE: Varig Ceases NRT Ops; Begins MUC

Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:47 am

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 47):

are you sure - I thought that HKG was a separate service from the EZE-RGL-AKL-SYD flight - I don't recall it ever coming through AKL - I was certain that it went through North America ( LAX ???)

Hey Andrew,

Let me quote AR's webpage:
http://www.aerolineas.com.ar/ar/inde...ais=ar&idi=en&secc=1&subs=1&tipo=A

"1980 | June 7th | The first trans-Polar flight by a commercial airline. It was carried out by an Aerolineas Argentinas Jumbo 747 plane. Leaving Buenos Aires, with a stop at Rio Gallegos, flies over the South Pole and reaches Auckland (New Zealand). The trip ends in Hong Kong (China)."

As a matter of fact, the flight was EZE-RGL-AKL-HKG, without stopping at SYD. It was only in the late 1980s that AR started its services to Australia.

Saludos,
Marambio

[Edited 2006-01-18 19:48:34]
Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo