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chrisnh
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:29 am

The Boyd Group states that AA is bullying smaller airports into taking their side on the Wright Ammendment issue. Those that don't will lose service. This isn't idle conjecture; it is actually happening. AA is legendary for bullying, predatory tactics. Anyone who disputes that this is occuring is whistling by the graveyard (or works for AA).

Manchester Airport (MHT) just re-tooled their web site (www.flymanchester.com). In a not-so-subtle dig at AA, the web site comes out on the spalsh page with this: "Granite Staters Should Be Free to Fly to Dallas." With none of their service to lose, MHT officials can happily lob grenades AAs way. I hope other airports follow suit. The guns need to be pointed back at them, and fired. Anyway, it's not as though anyone is bowing at AAs feet these days!

Chris
 
dartland
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:38 am

That's ridiculous, and equally as bad as what AA is doing.

WN probably has no intention of flying MHT-DAL and is using MHT simply because they are the largest carrier there and can do what they want. Totally stupid. If MHT-Dallas would be a profitable route, then AA would be doing it from DFW. And if WN really wanted to do it, they could do it from DFW also.
 
incitatus
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:41 am

Quoting ChrisNH (Thread starter):
AA is legendary for bullying, predatory tactics.

Southwest is threatening to stop serving Dallas and move their headquarters if they don't get their way. Is that bullying too?

The real reason behind their drive to repeal the Wright Amendment is that the lower landing fees as Dallas Love save them 30 million USD a year. But that's something Southwest doesn't want you to know.
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nateDAL
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:45 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 2):

If you were running a company, would you want to keep your headquarters in a city whose political leaders support laws that hurt your business simply to benefit a competetor?

I would not want to stay. WN is completely justified in moving to another city. It is probably too expensive to move, so I don't expect it. I would suggest HOU.

[Edited 2006-01-16 16:45:58]
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atrude777
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:45 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 2):
Southwest is threatening to stop serving Dallas and move their headquarters if they don't get their way. Is that bullying too?

It is a threat of some sort but hey its business too, everyone has done spme type of bullying at work to get their way.

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 2):
The real reason behind their drive to repeal the Wright Amendment is that the lower landing fees as Dallas Love save them 30 million USD a year. But that's something Southwest doesn't want you to know.

I'd simply say, just simple smart business mgmt move and idea.

Quoting Dartland (Reply 1):
That's ridiculous, and equally as bad as what AA is doing.

Is their proof SWA is asking MHT to change their website? Is their proof of AA doing the same to the smaller Airports?

Quoting Dartland (Reply 1):
And if WN really wanted to do it, they could do it from DFW also.

WN really wants to do it, but from DAL, not DFW. Lots of airlines "really want to" do things but if it doesn't make them money, they won't do it. and I am not even going to argue about WN at DFW its been argued time and time again.

Alex
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CXA330300
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:47 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 2):
Southwest is threatening to stop serving Dallas and move their headquarters if they don't get their way. Is that bullying too?

Its not bullying. Its annoying whining.
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txagkuwait
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:08 am

I think you would see a MHT - DAL nonstop, maybe not at first but before too long. I am certain you'd see a couple of PVD - MHT flights.

Under any circumstances you could expect to see some convenient one-stops with no change of planes --- MHT-PHL-DAL or MHT-MDW-DAL. Maybe even MHT-BNA-DAL.
 
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chrisnh
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:18 am

Southwest has nothing to do with the MHT web site. But MHT officials are more than happy to take the side of a carrier that has invested (and done well at) our airport over another carrier who believes that MHT isn't worth their while. Southwest has done magnificently at MHT, and I believe MHT ranks near the top of the system in terms of LF.

Anyway, true or not, The Boyd Group believes that AA is bullying smaller airports (and by extension, politicians) into siding with them on the Wright Ammendment.

And let's for the sake of argument consider airports that DO fall in lock-step with AA on this issue. Who's to say they won't lose service from AA anyway? It's not as though AA is in ANY position to 'guarantee' anything, so why side with them??? Loyalty to AA is a one-way street: 'Be loyal to us, but don't ask for the same in return.' The landscape is littered with cities that AA has cast away (or is in the process of). Hello, PVD.
 
SonOfACaptain
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:21 am

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 5):
Its not bullying. Its annoying whining.

Huh???? WN is doing the same thing AA is doing.

Come on people, WN is not an angel. They operate just like AA or any other corporation. They don't care about Joe from NY or TX. They care about themselves. Just because they bring you low fares and incredible service, doesn't mean they are always the angel. Wake up to the real business world, where there are no angles.

Quoting NateDAL (Reply 3):
If you were running a company, would you want to keep your headquarters in a city whose political leaders support laws that hurt your business simply to benefit a competetor?

Buddy, a lot of companies do it.

-SOAC
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chrisnh
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:29 am

Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 6):
I think you would see a MHT - DAL nonstop, maybe not at first but before too long. I am certain you'd see a couple of PVD - MHT flights.

Not sure if you mis-typed on that MHT-PVD thing; you'll not see any aircraft--ever--going between our two stations. Never has been, aside from United which flew MHT-PVD-ORD when they (UA) were opening up MHT back in the early 1980s. Once MHT was able to support its own nonstops to O'Hare, the PVD stop was dumped.

As for MHT-DAL, I'm under no illusions that such a route would be at or near the top of the list for Southwest if and when the Wright Ammendment crumbles. But on the other hand, such a route WOULD be a winner. No shred of doubt there AT ALL. With Southwest, it never is about how many people want to travel between Manchester and Dallas; it is about how many people want to fly from the northern Boston suburbs and southern NH to a whole bunch of cities in the Southwest network for whom DAL is the best connecting point (San Antonio and El Paso and Albuquerque to name just three).

Chris in NH
 
atrude777
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:32 am

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 8):
They operate just like AA or any other corporation.

If WN did it the way AA did, they'd be bankrupt  Wink

Actually, Southwest Airlines does indeed care to make a profit, and will do so at any cost, BUT at the same time they treat their employees just right and does not sacrifice their employees to make a profit, nor their customers/passengers either. SWA really DOES care about their passengers, why did they keep the pillows, and blankets and food on board? If they REALLY wanted to, they could do away those services and claim, high fuel prices, and weight and such caused it. But they did not because they care about their passengers.

Alex
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OPNLguy
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:35 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 2):
The real reason behind their drive to repeal the Wright Amendment is that the lower landing fees as Dallas Love save them 30 million USD a year. But that's something Southwest doesn't want you to know.

Is SWA paying the same $ per thousand rate that CO is, and AA will be? If the rate is same for everyone, nobody is getting a "special" deal.

It's funny, but since those costs are lower for SWA at Love, it's one of the things that makes it possible to offer lower fares, lower than would be the case if SWA were at DFW, yet some folks still can't seem to fathom why SWA doesn't want to serve DFW.

If you had a business, and you had a choice of an "overhead" cost of $1x at location-A versus $3x or $4x at location-B, which would you choose?
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SonOfACaptain
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:40 am

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 10):
why did they keep the pillows, and blankets and food on board?

1.) Lot's of airlines still have pillows and blankets. I was just on an US A321 where every seat had a pillow and blanket on it.

2.) Food? CO still have food. WN doesn't. They have snacks, which, by definition mean the same thing, but come on man.

Oh, and every airline that makes money cares about passengers. I remember when AA, US, ect. did.

I am not trying to make WN look bad. They are on of the most passenger-caring US airline out there. But they are not a god like a lot of A.net people think they are. They are a profit-seeking corporation, period.

-SOAC
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SonOfACaptain
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:43 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 11):
If you had a business, and you had a choice of an "overhead" cost of $1x at location-A versus $3x or $4x at location-B, which would you choose?

You realize that that is the sole reason WN doesn't want to move to DFW. Nevermind the other excuses WN puts out, WN only wants the lower costs of DAL. That is what I have been trying to say for the past year.

-SOAC
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incitatus
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:44 am

Quoting NateDAL (Reply 3):
I would suggest HOU.

I agree and would suggest Houston too.

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 10):
SWA really DOES care about their passengers, why did they keep the pillows, and blankets and food on board? If they REALLY wanted to, they could do away those services and claim, high fuel prices, and weight and such caused it. But they did not because they care about their passengers.

Come on. If Southwest cared about passengers, they'd have assigned seating instead of stampede boarding. They would have not let out their intention of scrapping service to New Orleans. Did you drink orange koolaid for b-fast?

Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 6):
I think you would see a MHT - DAL nonstop, maybe not at first but before too long.

Are you part of the same crowd that says repealing the W.A. will result in just a small increase in number of flights at Love? Your statement is an indication of what will happen to DAL if the cookie jar is left unattended.
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atrude777
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:45 am

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 12):
1.) Lot's of airlines still have pillows and blankets. I was just on an US A321 where every seat had a pillow and blanket on it.

Sure, I used AA as an example since they are number one at STL with SWA number 2, I switched to SWA after flying AA quite a few times, so at STL service wise SWA is better.

Food- CO yes has food but not on flights out of STL because we have NO Mainline, all RJ, and all flights are under 1 hr and 30 minutes, which does not require food like you guys get. Again WN gives more food on STL Flights then we will ever get on AA out of STL unless its a buy on board meal, where we have to pay, WN we don't.

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 12):
I remember when AA, US, ect. did.

WHEN, see my point? they USED to care, and they cared QUITE a bit, I remember TWA doing that and AA's think of your F/A as your Mother in flight. They did care back then, and so did SWA. What makes them different, today SWA STILL cares, AA doesn't, if they did they would keep the service.

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 12):
I am not trying to make WN look bad. They are on of the most passenger-caring US airline out there. But they are not a god like a lot of A.net people think they are. They are a profit-seeking corporation, period.

I agree, they are not a god, no airline is, I have had my bad default with SWA too, if anything WN is the MOST profit seeking corporation of ALL businesses, which is how they are able to be profitable while other airlines are not.

Alex
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flyorski
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:45 am

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 12):
They are a profit-seeking corporation, period.

Every airline is.

AA has used bullying tactics, however so has every other airline at one time or another. To say AA is "bad" because of it is biased and makes no sense. I challenge anyone to find one large airline that has not used bullying tactics to get cheaper rates. It's all about the bottom line.
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lightsaber
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:46 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 2):
Southwest is threatening to stop serving Dallas and move their headquarters if they don't get their way. Is that bullying too?

Its bullying too. However, I would make one comment on this: the aviation landscape is littered with the remnants of airlines that tried to compete with AA at DFW. WN going into DFW would be economic suicide. Forget the incentives, those were only for an airline willing to replace DL at DFW. WN will either serve Dallas from DAL or eventually they will have to move their headquarters.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 7):
Anyway, true or not, The Boyd Group believes that AA is bullying smaller airports (and by extension, politicians) into siding with them on the Wright Ammendment.

Since the Boyd ground specializes in consulting to small airports... they would have the pulse on this. However, I don't blame AA. Politics is nasty and will always be so. The reality is that AA is going to drop a bunch of small cities. Its not because of the Wright amendment, its due to declining yeilds reducing the viability of more and more markets.

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 8):
Wake up to the real business world, where there are no angles.

 checkmark  Oh, some companies are better to work for than others... but no angels.

Quoting NateDAL (Reply 3):
If you were running a company, would you want to keep your headquarters in a city whose political leaders support laws that hurt your business simply to benefit a competetor?

Good point. While some companies are stuck in that situation, history says that eventually the "oppressed" company will relocate or fade from the scene.

Unfortunately, this thread is going to deteriorate into a LCC vs. Legacy bit... Personally, since I fly to Dallas a few times per year I would love to see LUV set free. Oh, I'd probably still fly AA, but it would be nice to have lower last minute air fares to Dallas. (I could visit relatives with a bit less planning.)

One question: how long until WN will be strong enough to take on AA at DFW? If WN could open up DFW to a dozen or more of their own "fortress cities," I think they could do ok. Right now, WN is strong in quite a few places, but I can't think of a dozen fortress cities.

Lightsaber
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atrude777
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:49 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 14):
Come on. If Southwest cared about passengers, they'd have assigned seating instead of stampede boarding. They would have not let out their intention of scrapping service to New Orleans. Did you drink orange koolaid for b-fast?

Come on, do your research an overall majority of SWA passnegers ARE JUST fine with the no assigned seating. SWA continues to do research with its passengers, conducting surveys to see what the PASSENGERS want. Right now, they are quite content with no assigned seating.

As for new Orleans, EVERY AIRLINE did so. Others came back to win passengers, WN did it for PROFIT. WN will make money doing so. Recently WN added more flights BACK to MSY and in fact have chosen MSY as their location for the Conference meeting, so actually yes WN does care--link here...

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....l-newsArticle&ID=803579&highlight=

please note In 2006, Southwest Airlines will support New Orleans with more than just new flights. In February, Southwest Airlines will become one of the first corporations to plan a major meeting in the city when it sends nearly 300 of its Employees to New Orleans for an annual three-day marketing conference and community outreach effort.

"Southwest Airlines recognizes that tourism and convention business has been, and will continue to be, a major stimulus for the New Orleans economy," said Barrett. "We hope that other corporations and organizations also will choose New Orleans as a destination for their conventions and conferences."


Alex
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OPNLguy
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:50 am

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 13):
You realize that that is the sole reason WN doesn't want to move to DFW. Nevermind the other excuses WN puts out, WN only wants the lower costs of DAL. That is what I have been trying to say for the past year.

I'm not an executive at SWA (and not privy to discussions on that level) so I can't attest to it being the "sole" reason any more than you can.

Suffice it to say that any business in its right mind wants to keep its overhead costs low--that's basic Business 101.
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chrisnh
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:50 am

I think profit-seeking is THE most difficult exercise for airlines. I think they all 'seek' it; but because of things that can't be managed in the short term (union contracts, fuel costs), they are unable to achieve what they seek...namely, profits. So, instead, they go after pillows, soda, blankets, and all these little things and try to bankroll a profit on them.
 
IceTitan447
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:52 am

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 4):
Quoting Incitatus (Reply 2):
Southwest is threatening to stop serving Dallas and move their headquarters if they don't get their way. Is that bullying too?

Sounds like what they said to DEN in the past, they are back now. So just let them stop whining and it will all get better.
 
SonOfACaptain
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:57 am

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 15):
What makes them different, today SWA STILL cares, AA doesn't, if they did they would keep the service.

That is exactly my point. Airlines care about the passengers when they make money, not losing millions and billions of it.

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 15):
if anything WN is the MOST profit seeking corporation of ALL businesses, which is how they are able to be profitable while other airlines are not.

Exactly.

Quoting Flyorski (Reply 16):
I challenge anyone to find one large airline that has not used bullying tactics to get cheaper rates. It's all about the bottom line.

I second that challenge.

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 17):
WN going into DFW would be economic suicide.

Buddy, WN themselves have said they could operate profitably at DFW. They could operate profitably against anybody. WN is not afraid of going into DFW. AA is afraid of WN coming into DFW, they just happen to be more afraid of WN operating nationally from DAL.

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 17):
Oh, some companies are better to work for than others... but no angels.

Exactly, although I am aiming more towards that some companies are "nicer" than others, but there is no angels.

-SOAC

[Edited 2006-01-16 17:58:31]
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SonOfACaptain
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:02 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 19):
so I can't attest to it being the "sole" reason any more than you can.

When I say sole, I mean that is the only one worth fighting for. Other small reasons my stem from this "sole" reason, and other excuses that look like reasons may also stem from this "sole" reason, but non-the-less, there is only one "sole" reason WN doesn't want to move to DFW. And that is the costs.

-SOAC
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OPNLguy
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:23 am

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 23):
When I say sole, I mean that is the only one worth fighting for.

In any event, it's your personal opinion of "sole" since neither of us get to go to high-level meetings...

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 23):
...reason WN doesn't want to move to DFW. And that is the costs.

...and this is "wrong" as a business rationale because why?
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2H4
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:08 am




Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 24):
In any event, it's your personal opinion of "sole" since neither of us get to go to high-level meetings...



Don't be so sure, OPNL....we saw how many expert forum members were in the cockpit of 1248. There must be dozens attending board meetings at HDQ.  sarcastic 




2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
OPNLguy
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:12 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 25):
Don't be so sure, OPNL....we saw how many expert forum members were in the cockpit of 1248. There must be dozens attending board meetings at HDQ.

Good point...
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ripcordd
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:20 am

Come on they are both doing what the can to protect their airlines bullying or not they will do what they can do same goes for WN they do the same thing but they have a Halo effect on them as if they can do no wrong and they are always right and the big old nasty legacy must go cause they are bad and want to charge 700 for a walk up fare bla bla bla....Whatever its a business
 
Tango-Bravo
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:23 am

The shenanigans of AA in the case of their apparent attempts to coerce smaller airports into opposing repeal of the WA are nothing more than yet another symptom of the desperate, reactionary mode in which U.S. legacies act in their attempt to protect by artificial means what the market does not support.

To make a long story short, there are far more legacy airline seats in U.S. domestic service than there are pax willing to pay the true costs of the value-added services the legacies supposedly offer. Even though AA and their legacy cohorts are probably aware of this reality, they prefer to continue to act in denial while hoping against hope to keep their status quo alive by suppressing what the U.S. domestic market has voted for -- namely less need for convoluted, opportunist legacies and their caste systems, more need for reasonably priced no-nonsense service with a smile. AA's present reaction to the issue of WA repeal is yet another reflection of a desperate legacy grasping at straws in hope of circumventing market forces.

Speaking of legacy opportunism, as I see it AA seems to be making the wrong move by threatening to pull the proverbial plug on smaller airports if/when the WA is repealed. Repeal of WA would seem certain to exert downward pressure on yields at Fortress DFW and AA will need more than ever to "cross-subsidize" (in Boyd-speak) revenue losses on a greater number of competitive routes by fare-gouging (synonym of "cross-subsidize") in their captive markets.

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 13):
You realize that that is the sole reason WN doesn't want to move to DFW. Nevermind the other excuses WN puts out, WN only wants the lower costs of DAL. That is what I have been trying to say for the past year.

Even if, for the sake of argument, this were true, your point is...???
 
Tango-Bravo
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:18 am

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 20):
I think profit-seeking is THE most difficult exercise for airlines. I think they all 'seek' it; but because of things that can't be managed in the short term (union contracts, fuel costs), they are unable to achieve what they seek...namely, profits.

Then why has Southwest been able to remain profitable for 32 consecutive years? And yes, they have as many union contracts and the same suppliers of goods and services needed to operate an airline as the boom-and-bust legacies.
 
SonOfACaptain
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:52 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 24):
...and this is "wrong" as a business rationale because why?



Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 28):
Even if, for the sake of argument, this were true, your point is...???

Haha, I knew this was coming.

Did I every say there was anything wrong with it? My point is why should everybody take the side of WN. AA and DFW is looking after at their costs too. (DAL apparently isn't) Yet, everybody is hard on them for doing just that. WN and AA/DFW are doing the same thing! WN doesn't want to move because they want to "liberate" the metroplex, they don't want to move because they view the W.A. as unconstitutional, they don't want to move to DFW because they can't compete with AA, they want to move because they WANT TO MAKE MORE MONEY. There is nothing wrong with that, JUST DON'T BUY INTO THEIR OTHER BS. If you support WN, then by all means support them, but don't blame AA and DFW for doing the same things as WN. Same goes for all you AA supporters.

-SOAC
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SonOfACaptain
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:56 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 24):
In any event, it's your personal opinion of "sole" since neither of us get to go to high-level meetings...

Yet you still comment on things. We all do. Don't you dare finger me out.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 25):
Don't be so sure, OPNL....we saw how many expert forum members were in the cockpit of 1248. There must be dozens attending board meetings at HDQ.

Heaven forbid somebody talk badly about WN. Come on, this is what A.net is all about. We talk and make judgments about things.


Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 26):
Good point...

His point isn't wrong, but once again, this is what A.net is all about. Both of you guys do it too.

-SOAC
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SonOfACaptain
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:58 am

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 29):
Then why has Southwest been able to remain profitable for 32 consecutive years?

He said difficult, not impossible. All the things he said were true, and WN has mastered them. That is why WN has been able to remain profitable for 32 consecutive years.

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
2H4
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:14 am




Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 31):
Heaven forbid somebody talk badly about WN. Come on, this is what A.net is all about. We talk and make judgments about things.



Talking and making personal judgements is one thing. Professing one's opinion as fact is quite another.




Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 31):
His point isn't wrong, but once again, this is what A.net is all about. Both of you guys do it too



The forums should be about the exchange of ideas and opinions, but unfortunately, it's quickly becoming a venue for those with little or no direct experience telling everyone how the industry works. FWIW, I make an effort to qualify the statements I present as fact or opinion, so no...I don't "do it too".




2H4


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socalfive
Posts: 474
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:07 am

Quoting Ripcordd (Reply 27):
Come on they are both doing what the can to protect their airlines bullying or not they will do what they can do same goes for WN they do the same thing but they have a Halo effect on them as if they can do no wrong and they are always right and the big old nasty legacy must go cause they are bad and want to charge 700 for a walk up fare bla bla bla....Whatever its a business

Well, WN is a tough organization and competes fiercely in the marketplace as the marketplace (especially these days) is survival of the fittest. However, WN single-handedly revolutionized the whole industry and did it with a consistent business model. That being, internally the employees are first and the customer is second. The morale is consistently higher at WN than anywhere else and the employee diligence shines through to customer satisfaction and a loyal customer base. WN has never altered the playbook even once where every other airline, legacys and competing LCCs have either copied WNs successful approach or reacted to it. Successive WN CEOs share the original vision and perpetuate the culture, not alter it. As for comparing the business practices of WN to AA, I can't think of a single time WN has been called to the carpet on civil and criminal charges of predatory business practices. (ie Braniff and others for example) They keep the original faith and do what they set out to do, make money and do it day in and day out, all these years in a more honest and "high-road" manner than AA/Crandall and successors ever even thought about. That's where my personal respect and admiration is rooted, the unending consistency. I've yet to meet a unhappy WN employee and rarely meet a happy one at AA and I fly both a lot.
 
CXA330300
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:22 am

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 8):
Huh???? WN is doing the same thing AA is doing

Whining is worse than bullying, because at least bullying you're actually reacting to a situation........

Not to go on a philosophical turn.....,
AC/AA/UA/DL/B6/WN/US*/CO*/FI/BA/IB/AF/SK/LX/Sabena*/TK/LY/SA/MN/SW/AM/CE*/CX/CA/MU/JL/SQ/TG/MH/KA/5J
 
ScottB
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:57 am

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 30):
WN doesn't want to move because they want to "liberate" the metroplex, they don't want to move because they view the W.A. as unconstitutional, they don't want to move to DFW because they can't compete with AA, they want to move because they WANT TO MAKE MORE MONEY.

What's missing from this is exactly how Southwest intends to make more money. They do it by rationalizing fare levels across the board, making it more affordable for more people to fly, especially at the last minute. While the company's prime motivation is indeed profit, as it ought to be, they make that profit by lowering the cost of air travel to consumer -- and giving more people the freedom to fly. I don't think Southwest ever claimed that the Wright Amendment was "unconstitutional" -- they have claimed it is anticompetitive and bad for the consumer/businesses.

And landing fees are only part of the cost equation; greater congestion at DFW means longer taxi times and poorer utilization. Southwest also has significant investments in place at DAL -- maintenance hangars, training facilities, simulators, its headquarters, etc. It would be costly to move some or all of that over to DFW.
 
bigb
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:40 am

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 22):
Quoting Flyorski (Reply 16):
I challenge anyone to find one large airline that has not used bullying tactics to get cheaper rates. It's all about the bottom line.

I second that challenge.

Jet Blue? Air Tran? who esle, America West?
ETSN Baber, USN
 
jwb20
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:42 am

I would agree that AA is being a bully, but its all for competition. AA im sure wants Southwest out of Dallas because then more business for them. Their plan is to just try and kick Southwest out of Dallas, but I dont think that will happen.
Flying is a mans bestfriend
 
bigb
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:44 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 2):
Southwest is threatening to stop serving Dallas and move their headquarters if they don't get their way. Is that bullying too?

They would move HDQ, but no way in hell they will move ops!
ETSN Baber, USN
 
cjpark
Posts: 1199
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:19 am

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 10):
Actually, Southwest Airlines does indeed care to make a profit, and will do so at any cost, BUT at the same time they treat their employees just right and does not sacrifice their employees to make a profit, nor their customers/passengers either. SWA really DOES care about their passengers, why did they keep the pillows, and blankets and food on board? If they REALLY wanted to, they could do away those services and claim, high fuel prices, and weight and such caused it. But they did not because they care about their passengers.

Do you actually buy your own tickets or is Mommy and Daddy paying the cheapest route to get you where you think you should go. Let us know when you start buying your own tickets then your opinion will be worth more.

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 11):
Is SWA paying the same $ per thousand rate that CO is, and AA will be? If the rate is same for everyone, nobody is getting a "special" deal.

It's funny, but since those costs are lower for SWA at Love, it's one of the things that makes it possible to offer lower fares, lower than would be the case if SWA were at DFW, yet some folks still can't seem to fathom why SWA doesn't want to serve DFW.

If you had a business, and you had a choice of an "overhead" cost of $1x at location-A versus $3x or $4x at location-B, which would you choose?

At what point do you admit that you are seeking to maintain this discount that represents a windfall profit to operations for your company instead of lying and saying that we cannot fly to where we want to because of a federal law? The point is is that it is such a good deal you only wish that you could keep the reality of the lowest landing fees in the country a secret to proport the image of poor little WN.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 25):
Don't be so sure, OPNL....we saw how many expert forum members were in the cockpit of 1248. There must be dozens attending board meetings at HDQ.

Yes and you were obviously there to. We all know that you were such a valuable intern at WN that they can't wait to hire you. In fact you were probably in the jumpseat to make sure the pilots did not make a mistake.

Have they hired you yet? Maybe OP will give you a reference.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 33):
Talking and making personal judgements is one thing. Professing one's opinion as fact is quite another.

That is funny coming from a person who will not answer a question as to why they so adamantly support an airline that does not serve their home airport. And then say I don't have to answer that question because I have personal reasons as to why it is so important for me to tell a region how they should run their airports.

Go figure?
"Any airline that wants to serve the [region] can go to DFW today and fly anywhere they want," WN spokesman Ed Stewart
 
SonOfACaptain
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:39 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 33):
I make an effort to qualify the statements I present as fact or opinion, so no...I don't "do it too".

Oh thank you for clarifying that for me. You see, I was under the impression that your posts did nothing to improve the quality of the thread.  sarcastic 
Did you really just waste your money to only say you are correct to WN supporters and you are wrong to the people who said bad things about WN?

Quoting ScottB (Reply 36):
I don't think Southwest ever claimed that the Wright Amendment was "unconstitutional"

WN may not have, but some people here have.

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 35):
Whining is worse than bullying, because at least bullying you're actually reacting to a situation........

Ooookkkkaaaayyyy....

WN and AA both do the same thing

Quoting BigB (Reply 37):
Jet Blue? Air Tran? who esle, America West?

Are you really that naive?

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 40):
Let us know when you start buying your own tickets then your opinion will be worth more.

Hey now, don't be too hard on the guy. I don't pay for my tickets either.  wink  Although I am going to have pretty soon. Dang furlough.  banghead 

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
bigb
Posts: 748
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:40 am

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 40):
Do you actually buy your own tickets or is Mommy and Daddy paying the cheapest route to get you where you think you should go. Let us know when you start buying your own tickets then your opinion will be worth more.

Whoa there buddy! If you gonna talk his opinion down like that, you might just want to call your own opinions garbage.

It doesn't matter who buys whos tickets just to have an opinion matter in a discussion such as this.
ETSN Baber, USN
 
2H4
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:43 am




Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 41):
Oh thank you for clarifying that for me. You see, I was under the impression that your posts did nothing to improve the quality of the thread.

Thanks for that. Very mature.





Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 41):
Did you really just waste your money to only say you are correct to WN supporters and you are wrong to the people who said bad things about WN?

First, what money, and second, obviously no.




2H4


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cjpark
Posts: 1199
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:46 am

Quoting BigB (Reply 42):
Whoa there buddy! If you gonna talk his opinion down like that, you might just want to call your own opinions garbage.

It doesn't matter who buys whos tickets just to have an opinion matter in a discussion such as this.

In the real world money talks and the rest walk. All I am asking for is a little clarity of where the opinions are coming from.
"Any airline that wants to serve the [region] can go to DFW today and fly anywhere they want," WN spokesman Ed Stewart
 
bigb
Posts: 748
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:46 am

Quoting BigB (Reply 42):
Are you really that naive?

Hey man, someone had to step up to ya challenge.

Besides, I think they should repeal the WA. To benefit the consumers around the Dallas area.
ETSN Baber, USN
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:47 am

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 40):
lying and saying that we cannot fly to where we want to because of a federal law?

What exactly is the lie? Southwest cannot fly wherever it wants to out of Love Field because of the Wright Amendment.

Have your circular arguments done a complete 360 on you?  Wink
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
SonOfACaptain
Posts: 1695
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:01 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 43):
Thanks for that. Very mature.

Like your posts are any better...

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 43):
First, what money, and second, obviously no.

First, didn't you pay to join A.net? Secondly, that is all I have seen you do.

Quoting BigB (Reply 45):
To benefit the consumers around the Dallas area.

Wouldn't WN coming to DFW benefit the consumers too?

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 46):
What exactly is the lie? Southwest cannot fly wherever it wants to out of Love Field because of the Wright Amendment.

I think what he was trying to say was that WN uses the excuse that a federal law forbids WN from flying nationally for the DFW metroplex, when in reality, WN is allowed to fly anywhere they want from the metroplex, they just want to stay in their comfy little home of DAL where the costs are so low they can make huge profits. The law does not forbid WN from flying nationally, WN does.

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
cjpark
Posts: 1199
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:46 am

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Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:04 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 46):
What exactly is the lie? Southwest cannot fly wherever it wants to out of Love Field because of the Wright Amendment.

Have your circular arguments done a complete 360 on you?

But they can fly anywhere they want to from DFW just like the rest of the airlines. Again what is it that makes WN so special that they can demand differential treatment?

Come on OP surely you can tell us.
"Any airline that wants to serve the [region] can go to DFW today and fly anywhere they want," WN spokesman Ed Stewart
 
bigb
Posts: 748
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:24 am

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 47):
Wouldn't WN coming to DFW benefit the consumers too?

Not really, because DAL is closer to some folks vs DFW. Its like the situation I'm in. I have to rely on others to get to the airport because I have no mode transportation (i.e. car) and it can costly for a commute to a airport at a greater distance than the closer airport.

Lets use me as a example. I'm currently stationed Groton for the US Navy. I'm in middle of nothing and for me to travel, the closest airports I have to fly out of is BDL and PVD. PVD is about an hour away where BDL is further. If PVD was restricted like DAL was, as a comsumer, I would be getting screwed like hooker in a hotel room, because I have t0 make a commute all the way out to BDL just fly somewhere outside of the limits.

So I will ask these questions, and I would to get a answer from you.

Why not appeal WA and allow Dallas area to operate like IAH and HOU in Houston?

I serious think AA and WN and coexist in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area pretty well. Do you think same? If not, why not? CO and WN coexists pretty good in Houston. Don't ya think?

Why limit Comsumers to just the DFW option? Don't you think Consumers deserve options for ex: DFW-LAS or DAL-LAS non stop? If not, why not?

Why should laws limit consumers options in a free market environment?

Questions, Questions, and more Questions. Can I get answers please?
ETSN Baber, USN

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