SonOfACaptain
Topic Author
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Rumor Time For US Airways

Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:17 pm

Rumor has it US will be announcing a few European destinations in the new future, using ETOPS certified ATA 757's. Whether this is true or not, I am not sure.

I usually don't spread rumors, but hey, I am bored, and all my arguments on A.net have died down.

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
FCYTravis
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:29 pm

The talk on USAviation is that three ATA 757-200s are sitting around in Germany, and that US is going to take them and put them on the existing Ireland and Glasgow service, along with a new route to Lisbon.

According to the rumor, the 767s freed up by these new planes will be sent to Milan and Stockholm.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
BigJimFX
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:38 pm

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 1):
The talk on USAviation is that three ATA 757-200s are sitting around in Germany, and that US is going to take them and put them on the existing Ireland...

I'm not sure how comfortable I am flying to Ireland in a 752. No offense to the 752. But the only comfortable way across the pond for me is in a widebody. I might get flamed for this opinion, and I understand that US/HP need to make money somehow. But come on... How many people am I gonna have to fight for an exit row???
I'd like to thank me for flying Me Airways...
 
jacobin777
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:45 pm

Quoting BigJimFX (Reply 2):
I'm not sure how comfortable I am flying to Ireland in a 752. No offense to the 752. But the only comfortable way across the pond for me is in a widebody. I might get flamed for this opinion, and I understand that US/HP need to make money somehow. But come on... How many people am I gonna have to fight for an exit row???

AA and CO are sending their hotrod 757's across the pond for while now with no problems...
"Up the Irons!"
 
BigJimFX
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:56 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 3):
AA and CO are sending their hotrod 757's across the pond for while now with no problems...

I'm Sure... I dunno. the only 2 757's I've flown on was from PIT-CLT on US/JP and DFW-TUL (Dont ask me why) on AA. On AA I had an exit row and it was Awesome! On US/HP I did not and it was not very comfortable for an hour... not to mention it was a full flight and even though I captured "The Glory" (a silhouette of the aircraft with a refraction/rainbow on a cloud, that A.net wouldn't accept) I was still not very comfortable.
I'd like to thank me for flying Me Airways...
 
MAH4546
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:01 pm

Quoting BigJimFX (Reply 2):
I'm not sure how comfortable I am flying to Ireland in a 752. No offense to the 752. But the only comfortable way across the pond for me is in a widebody. I might get flamed for this opinion, and I understand that US/HP need to make money somehow. But come on... How many people am I gonna have to fight for an exit row???

The block time for PHL-SNN is 6h35m, barely longer than MIA-SEA (6h20m).
a.
 
Indy
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:09 pm

I love the 757 for domestic long haul. I'm just not sure I'd enjoy it for 8 hours. Some people like smaller jets. I am partial to widebody aircraft.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
Mir
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:29 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
The block time for PHL-SNN is 6h35m, barely longer than MIA-SEA (6h20m).

The block time back, however, is going to be longer than that.

I've never done a transatlantic flight in a 752, so I can't comment on it, but it does seem like the plane would be cramped. But if it's a direct flight, I don't see anything wrong with it.

Are these ATA planes RR engined or PW engined? Is there something about the PW engined planes that makes them unsuitable for transatlantic flights, or is it just coincidence that CO and AA both have RR engined planes?

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
LGA777
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:41 pm

As those ATA birds have a higher max takeoff weight perhaps they would instead be used for Hawaii service and the US-West etops 757's currently doing Hawaii with weight restrictions would do Ireland ! Just an idea and my two cents !

Cheers

LGA777
 
Tornado82
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:25 pm

Quoting BigJimFX (Reply 4):
On US/HP I did not and it was not very comfortable for an hour

Why? Seat the Coach Class pitch/width in a 752 is the same as anything from an RJ to a T7, or in US' case A330, within a few negligible fractions of an inch. That 767/A330 will be the same sized seats... and in the 757 you've got a much higher chance of the window seat!
 
MYT332
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:38 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
I've never done a transatlantic flight in a 752, so I can't comment on it, but it does seem like the plane would be cramped.

Well I have with AA MAN-BOS. It was alright to be honest although I prefer widebody aircraft for long haul. There is simply more and better amenities. I can't really say the flight was cramped as afterall, the plane is designed to fly with all seats filled let alone the fact I'm used to flying 757's in a 233 Y config!

Flying at FL280 for the first hours of flight over Iceburgs is sure interesting though! Hail the B752, she's epic!
One Life, Live it.
 
etops1
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:00 am

it was announced in a managers meeting yesterday. it hasn't been put in the system yet though. loo for an announcement really soon . this is no b/s.
 
KALB
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:08 am

Three of my four transatlantic flights were on single-aisle aircraft. BOAC VC-10, Sabena and PanAm 707-320s in the late '60's. No problem. Next time across the pond, I may purposely book a 757.
 
kyair
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:28 am

Quoting KALB (Reply 12):
PanAm 707-320s

757 has the same cabin width, and as mentioned seats are same/almost same size as on 767. The cramped feeling is mostly perception in my view as your personal space is basically the same. Moving around in the cabin is another story, as are entertainment options.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened - Dr. Seuss
 
nomadic
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:32 am

My first flights to Europe; SNN, FRA LHR were all on TWA 707-331s.

I still remember these as my favorites!

nomadic
 
jmc1975
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:42 am

Quoting KYAir (Reply 13):
757 has the same cabin width, and as mentioned seats are same/almost same size as on 767.

Do you mean the 707? The 757 and 707 both have 3x3 configurations. The 767 has a spacious 2x3x2 configuration.
.......
 
BestWestern
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:51 am

The ATA 752's and '3 are virtually daily visitors to SNN these days carrying the boys to and from the Gulf. The aircraft have the legs.


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jdwfloyd
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:56 am

Someone was going to say this anyway, so I will. This will free up a 762 for the PIT FRA run. THere has been a lot of talk around PIT that this route may come back in the spring. There is also talk that the route may be on a 330 due to the fact the main reason the route would return in for cargo, and the 330 holds more.
 
snnus
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:11 am

Yes this is not a rumour, these aircraft have been leased, a great
step forward for the company. Probably see 2 of those 757's flying
into ireland for the winter or at worst 1 with a wrap flight..
 
kyair
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:34 am

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 15):
Do you mean the 707?

Yep, look back at my post and you'll see that I quoted KALB referencing Pan Am 707s. However, my post wasn't very clear as I talked about 707 cabin width and 767 seat width in the same sentence. Sorry!  ashamed 
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened - Dr. Seuss
 
airbazar
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:44 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 1):
put them on the existing Ireland and Glasgow service, along with a new route to Lisbon.

Lisbon, very interesting. For a while people have been discussing what would happen to the codeshare between TP and CO, now that TAP has joined StarAlliance. Some people even mentioned UA flying to LIS or TP starting service to one of UA's hubs but I don't think I remember anyone even mentioning US and their hub at PHL. It makes a lot of sense.
 
Tornado82
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 3:37 am

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 17):
Someone was going to say this anyway, so I will. This will free up a 762 for the PIT FRA run. THere has been a lot of talk around PIT that this route may come back in the spring. There is also talk that the route may be on a 330 due to the fact the main reason the route would return in for cargo, and the 330 holds more

That would be awesome for Pittsburgh and Western PA as a whole!
 
kubus
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 3:57 am

I flew PIT-FRA-PIT in 2004 four times. I really didn't care what the fare was, I'll take connecting in FRA for travel to EU over ORD, EWR or JFK or anywhere else in states. 2 biggest pluses are PIT immigration (20 min or less each time, and that's from getting off the plane to getting on the train), second are the amount of possible connections at FRA.

I'll never understand why that flight was losing money for US Airways? Each time it was about 98% full with pax. I also counted 5 or 6 pallets of cargo at FRA coming in or out, which was the same amount as was going in PHL flight.
 
FCYTravis
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:04 am

They cut it because the entire hub at PIT was dismantled, thus a dramatic reduction in feed, and there's not really enough O&D at PIT to support transatlantic service.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
Tornado82
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:06 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 23):
and there's not really enough O&D at PIT to support transatlantic service.

There's almost enough cargo alone to support it though. It might become like that RDU-LGW? trip on AA... freight is self-sufficient and the pax are pure gravy.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:09 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
Are these ATA planes RR engined or PW engined?

All TZ 757s have Rolls Royce RB211s, so integrating them shouldn't be that much of a problem, since US operates an all RR 757 fleet (including HP).
 
Ryefly
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:14 am

Here are the planes:


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vega
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:19 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 1):
According to the rumor, the 767s freed up by these new planes will be sent to Milan and Stockholm

Stockholm from PHL is a big surprise. If they indeed use a 767 on the route (if it happens), that would be a very good strategic move against CO - IMOP. I flew the CO 757 (EWR-ARN) about 2 years ago on the almost 9 hour flight and I have to say that I did not enjoy the trip - even in BF class. It's not the seats - it's, as someone mentioned, the overall space of the aircraft. On a 333/767/777, you can get up, move around and get a feel that you're not in a tube. I now avoid the 757 on transatlantic routes - even at the emotional expense of a London or Frankfurt transfer. I think I'd even feel uncomfortable with the 6.5 - 7 Hr PHL-SNN route, although I haven't done that. On another note, what are the logistical implications and expense, if any, for US Airways to restart a PIT-Europe route, assuming the loads and cargo are there. I mean is all that needs to happen is for a 767 to show up at a gate and fly to FRA, or does US and Customs/Imm. need additional (new) staff, etc..
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
supa7E7
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:04 am

PIT-FRA was literally not profitable before. (source: Bruce Lakefield) Plenty of data exists on PIT-FRA and its charms.

It's not worth doing, at least not with A330; there is no mystery to this at all.

Topic rumor aside, PHX needs a FRA flight WAY more than PIT.
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
IL96M
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:23 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 1):
the 767s freed up by these new planes will be sent to Milan

US will fly to Milan? In other words, take up UA's lost mantle of direct US-to-Milan Star Alliance flights? When will this happen...?

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 25):
integrating them shouldn't be that much of a problem

Will they be painted in the new US color scheme? Will they be flown by ATA or US crews?
 
FCYTravis
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:36 am

IL96M, yes, that's the plan - the *A thing is a big part of the proposed flights. They will be US airplanes operated by US crews. They're ATA lease turnbacks or rejections from the bankruptcy.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:48 am

These aircraft were destined to VIM Airlines in Russia ... What happened? Are they still sitting in MUC today?
- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
 
Randy4920
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:55 am

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 28):
Stockholm from PHL is a big surprise. If they indeed use a 767 on the route (if it happens), that would be a very good strategic move against CO - IMOP. I flew the CO 757 (EWR-ARN) about 2 years ago on the almost 9 hour flight and I have to say that I did not enjoy the trip - even in BF class. It's not the seats - it's, as someone mentioned

I don't understand how you flew CO 2 years ago to Stocholm when the EWR-ARN service started this past spring.
 
TWAAF9
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:15 am

Quoting BigJimFX (Reply 2):
I'm not sure how comfortable I am flying to Ireland in a 752. No offense to the 752. But the only comfortable way across the pond for me is in a widebody. I might get flamed for this opinion, and I understand that US/HP need to make money somehow. But come on... How many people am I gonna have to fight for an exit row???

I've heard it many times but still don't understand this argument. Other than cabin width and height, the pitch and seat width are the same on a 757 as on a widebody of the same airline (maybe deviates by fractions of an inch?), so your personal space is still the same size pretty much no matter what type you fly.
Ahh, the power of SABRE...
 
vega
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:20 am

Quoting Randy4920 (Reply 32):
I don't understand how you flew CO 2 years ago to Stocholm when the EWR-ARN service started this past spring.

OK I just checked my records. The flights were actually on July 7th/July 15th 2005. Regardless, my point is the size of the 757 is uncomfortable for trans-Atlantic travel.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:34 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 34):
Regardless, my point is the size of the 757 is uncomfortable for trans-Atlantic travel.

Dc-8, B707 .......... Uncomfortable too?
- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
 
vega
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:02 am

Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 35):
Dc-8, B707 .......... Uncomfortable too?

Well if they were the only choice and one didn't have anything to compare them to, no. Today, however, yes they would be uncomfortable after being used to flying a 777, 767, or 333. I imagine I could easily take an EOS 757 flight however.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
TropicBird
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:08 am

If this indeed true...these planes may be earmarked for Hawaii service as their are still unresolved operational problems in the existing fleet and come March 1st, flights will be increased and expanded to other islands.
 
Flaps
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:25 am

I have yet to fly on any widebody that was any more comfortable, cabin for cabin than a 757, 737, A320/319/321 etc etc. In fact the widebodies to me seem more crowded with less perceived personal space. Possible exception for the 767. If the MD80 could go transatlantic I would never fly anything else.

I wouldnt trust anything Lakefield said regarding PIT. I was wondering earlier today what a full open skies accord between the EU and United States would mean for US's European operations. I would expect their yields out of PHL to nosedive. A couple of transatlantic LCC's on either side of the pond could play havoc with yields on both coasts.
 
LGA777
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:06 am

I think PIT-FRA can be very profitable (again) both in the cabin and cargo hold. I have been told there are 72 companies in the PIT area with ties to Germany and with regular movement between PIT and Germany of employees/staff/and in many cases freight. I hope the folks in Tempe can be convinced of this !

Regards

LGA777
 
kubus
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:40 am

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 28):



Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 28):
PIT-FRA was literally not profitable before. (source: Bruce Lakefield) Plenty of data exists on PIT-FRA and its charms.

It's not worth doing, at least not with A330; there is no mystery to this at all.

Topic rumor aside, PHX needs a FRA flight WAY more than PIT.

Supa7E7,
Can you elaborate more on lack of profits, not that I am questioning it, we all know that it didn't make money. I just want to see for myself why, what's the reason that almost full pax and cargo A330 can't make money for US on this route while PHL flight can?
In a sense was it the case while US costs where high, landing and related fees at both ends too much?
I know that PIT officials from Airport, city and county are still courting US on opening the route. I'm pretty sure I read that they are offering money as well.
 
CentPIT
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:52 pm

US is no longer interested in Pittsburgh, in case you didn't know. They are down to 174 daily flights and I expect more cuts to come. I am sad that this is happening but I am not sure if any carrier will fill the International void. It would be great to see PIT-FRA come back just for the sake of Pittsburgh. Hopefully they can court someone into operating it. I would say just give them a dang gate for free and give them other incentives.
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
N1120A
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:40 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
Are these ATA planes RR engined or PW engined?

RR

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
Is there something about the PW engined planes that makes them unsuitable for transatlantic flights

Well, the thrust available on the PW2000 series is less than that of the RB211. Additionally, the on wing time is 1/4th that of the RB211. It should be worth noting, however, that TWA used to fly PW2000 powered 752s on LIS-JFK
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
jdwfloyd
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:08 pm

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 41):
US is no longer interested in Pittsburgh, in case you didn't know. They are down to 174 daily flights and I expect more cuts to come. I am sad that this is happening but I am not sure if any carrier will fill the International void. It would be great to see PIT-FRA come back just for the sake of Pittsburgh. Hopefully they can court someone into operating it. I would say just give them a dang gate for free and give them other incentives.

There will not be any more drastic cuts in PIT by US Airways. US has reached the point in PIT where cutting more flights would just invite more competition. Parker has said numerous times that PIT will remain as is for the time being. Right now PIT's current status is a result of previous battles between former US management and the former heads of the county. One other factor contributing to PIT's lack of flights is the fact that we are in a drastic overhaul of regional carries right now. Republic is in the middle of a acquisition of Mid Atlantic and is taking delivery of as many E170 as they can. Not to mention we are basically swapping Transtates and Mesa for Air Wisconsin with UA. Once things settle down from the merger and other unknows in the industry i.e. NW's and DL's future and how the AC factor will play into the scheme we will know more. In a few years you PIT will have flights back such as all the competitors hub flights that we gave up in the last year back. But for now US will follow where the people of Pittsburgh want to fly, and that is FRA. As was stated above there is enough cargo and business OD traffic to fill at least a 767 here.
 
captaink
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:46 pm

Quoting Flaps (Reply 38):
I have yet to fly on any widebody that was any more comfortable, cabin for cabin than a 757, 737, A320/319/321 etc etc. In fact the widebodies to me seem more crowded with less perceived personal space. Possible exception for the 767. If the MD80 could go transatlantic I would never fly anything else.

I agree. Widebodies are bigger in size sure but I really dislike being among so many people at the same time. And imagine if you get stuck somewhere in the middle section for a 9 hour flight? I rather be on a narrowbody aircraft in that case.
There is something special about planes....
 
jdwfloyd
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:40 am

Are there any more of TZ's ETOPS 752 that they are not using right now, and would US be interested in them? Also were any of the 752s that NW parked ETOPS certified and would US be interested in those?
 
Elagabal
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:32 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
I've never done a transatlantic flight in a 752, so I can't comment on it, but it does seem like the plane would be cramped. But if it's a direct flight, I don't see anything wrong with it.



Quoting Flaps (Reply 38):
I have yet to fly on any widebody that was any more comfortable, cabin for cabin than a 757, 737, A320/319/321 etc etc. In fact the widebodies to me seem more crowded with less perceived personal space. Possible exception for the 767. If the MD80 could go transatlantic I would never fly anything else.

I agree mostly with Flaps. Any difference in perceived comfort is a result of two combined elements: the company's layout and amenities policies (IFE, food, etc.), and your own imagination / paranoia. A flying metal tube is a flying metal tube, no matter who manufactured it, and beyond a certain point size doesn't matter. I've flown 747 / 757 / 767, IL-86 (?) on CAAC (SFO - Hongqiao, what an adventure!), L-1011, MD-11 & DC10 transpuddle, and the airline always makes /far/ more difference - with an exception for the funky MD-11, and especially those lovely old TriStars. I miss them.   

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 43):
I am sad that this is happening but I am not sure if any carrier will fill the International void. It would be great to see PIT-FRA come back just for the sake of Pittsburgh. Hopefully they can court someone into operating it. I would say just give them a dang gate for free and give them other incentives.

Why should PIT subsidize a service that won't pay for itself?

[Edited 2006-01-22 03:35:08]

[Edited 2006-01-22 03:36:02]
 
vega
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RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sun Jan 22, 2006 3:22 pm

Quoting Elagabal (Reply 46):
Why should PIT subsidize a service that won't pay for itself?

For the same reason a lot of other non-international hub cities do - the hope of bringing in business interests from another country (to their city) and of course the percieved prestige of having non-stop international service to Europe and/or Asia.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
jdwfloyd
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Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:29 am

RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:21 pm

Quoting Elagabal (Reply 46):
Why should PIT subsidize a service that won't pay for itself?

I didn't say that, I was quoting CentPIT. But I agree that the county of Allegheny should give some sort of incentive to restart FRA or LGW service. Those flights could lead to more flight additions in PIT.
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Rumor Time For US Airways

Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:05 pm

....there are clearly people who believe the 757 is not suitable for transatlantic travel because of the comfort. Delta obviously knows that and is touting its all widebody transatlantic fleet. My first transatlantic flight was on a TW 707 but I can assure you those airplanes had much greater pitch than current seats do... and the seats were alot "beefier".

For airlines that have few widebodies, the 757 is the next best thing but from a comfort and revenue standpoint, a widebody makes far more sense. Remember also that a step up to a 767 adds cargo capacity that can make or break a route during the lean months when transatlantic fares drop as low as $100 each way. Throw in $30-40K in cargo revenue and the flight looks altogether different. Further, even from PHL and EWR, the 757 cannot serve a great deal of Europe without significant payload restrictions.

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