emrecan
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THY Istanbul-Sao Paolo Flights In Future

Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:39 pm

Hi everyone...


According to a Turkish news website , The Minister of Foreign Affairs of Turkey told that, Turkish Airlines is planning to make direct flights between Turkey and Brazil.
The flights will be between Istanbul and Sao Paolo.

I dont know if it is true but it would be great...

I hope to learn more about this.

Emrecan
 
RAFVC10
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RE: THY Istanbul-Sao Paolo Flights In Future

Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:28 am

Hi Emrecan,

Do you believe there are enough turkish and brazilian market to fly to SAO??? And what your opinion about future load factors??
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antiuser
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RE: THY Istanbul-Sao Paolo Flights In Future

Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:39 am

São Paulo has a significant Turkish community, as well as a large Lebanese population who could provide additional loads on IST-BEY. Not that far fetched an idea, really.
Azzurri Campioni del Mondo!
 
emrecan
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RE: THY Istanbul-Sao Paolo Flights In Future

Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:53 am

RAFVC10:

I think it may not be very profitable.. Of course noone can know from today.

I guess they are planning to be a stop between S. America and MiddleEast..
 
pilotaydin
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RE: THY Istanbul-Sao Paolo Flights In Future

Sat Jan 21, 2006 6:01 am

im not sure we have the aircraft to make these flights without a penalty on payload, or a stop over maybe? is the A340 able to make this trip?
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
antiuser
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RE: THY Istanbul-Sao Paolo Flights In Future

Sat Jan 21, 2006 6:31 am

The distance between IST and GRU would be around 5689nm. The A343's range is 6700nm, so I guess it's possible.
Azzurri Campioni del Mondo!
 
hardiwv
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RE: THY Istanbul-Sao Paolo Flights In Future

Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:00 am

Quoting Emrecan (Thread starter):
Turkish Airlines is planning to make direct flights between Turkey and Brazil.
The flights will be between Istanbul and Sao Paolo.

Interesting, but keep in mind that MEA tried in the past to operate BEY-GRU (with a stop over in ABJ). Many sources mention that the stop-over in ABJ killed the flight. Currently TAM has an agreement with MEA by which pax fly TAM GRU-CDG and connect MEA CDG-BEY.

Quoting Antiuser (Reply 2):
São Paulo has a significant Turkish community, as well as a large Lebanese population

Plus huge Syrian community.

You also have to put into perspective EK mentioned interest in operating DXB-GRU nonstop...EK could undermine a possible IST-GRU flight since DXB is a stronger hub than IST.

Rgs,
 
Derico
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RE: THY Istanbul-Sao Paolo Flights In Future

Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:15 am

It would be nice to see Turkish airlines in GRU! Hope it happens.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
A388
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RE: THY Istanbul-Sao Paolo Flights In Future

Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:38 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 6):
You also have to put into perspective EK mentioned interest in operating DXB-GRU nonstop...EK could undermine a possible IST-GRU flight since DXB is a stronger hub than IST.

Interesting point, DXB would indeed be a better choice for a connection between the Middle East and South America because not only is DXB a bigger hub but it's also right in the middle of the Middle East. On the other hand, like I've said in the past, Türkiye has a lot of potential because it's a big country with a lot of growth potential, so who knows.... I am still hoping TK will re-start MIA flights but chances are very small...  Sad

A388
 
AF022
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RE: THY Istanbul-Sao Paolo Flights In Future

Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:34 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 6):
Interesting, but keep in mind that MEA tried in the past to operate BEY-GRU (with a stop over in ABJ). Many sources mention that the stop-over in ABJ killed the flight.

The flight was operated only once per week, on Mondays. If you want to minimize the chances of success for a long-haul route, operate it with an intermediate stop only once per week.
 
dutchjet
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RE: THY Istanbul-Sao Paolo Flights In Future

Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:45 am

This would be an interesting connection.......Sao Paolo is a major biz and financial center with a very international diverse population, and the GRU-IST connection would have support, propbably with premium pax. If properly timed, the flight could also be used as a gateway to the entire region, with connections possible to the middle east, gulf states and India.......but, the big issue is that EK is supposedly also looking seriously at South America (flights to GRU, GIG and EZE have all been mentioned, and there were even some references to EK opening service to South America on EK's web site) and EK would be a very tough competitor.....EK markets itself as a premium airline with premium service (whether they are is not the issue, its marketing) and EK is building a big hub at DXB that will offer connections to many destinations in the region and beyond, plus EK already has A345s in its fleet that could handle the routes.

It will be interesting to see if TK is serious, and whether TK or EK gets into this rather interesting new market first........and, is there enough demand to support both airlines out of GRU ?
 
LipeGIG
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RE: THY Istanbul-Sao Paolo Flights In Future

Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:53 am

I doubt there is a demand for a flight to Turkey from São Paulo. Although a good number of Lebanese, Syrian and others, does THY offer a wide range of connections ? Their long-haul fleet is too small to offer a daily flight to Brazil, also they offer only 4x weekly to Tokyo, 2x weekly to Seoul, 2x weekly to Hong Kong, 3x weekly to Chicago. I could imagine they will try to run Brazil with 2 or 3 weekly frequencies, but it's not the case people move from connections in Europe or even in DXB with EK in the near future. I imagine Turkey could do a better job improving their existing routes to the US and Asia.

Also, EK already received 14 weekly frequencies from Brazilian CERNAI (DOT), while there are no frequencies to Turkey.

I doubt CERNAI will release more frequencies to Brazil from Middle East. Emirates lobby will be strong.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 6):
You also have to put into perspective EK mentioned interest in operating DXB-GRU nonstop...EK could undermine a possible IST-GRU flight since DXB is a stronger hub than IST

100% right, but i strong believe GIG-DXB will come first.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):
It will be interesting to see if TK is serious, and whether TK or EK gets into this rather interesting new market first........and, is there enough demand to support both airlines out of GRU ?

I can't see so much market for both airlines. As Dubai is not only an oil destination (also a huge O&D market nowadays for congress/seminars/tourism) it's easy to imagine that EK will be the winner. They have a very good service, new and fantastic fleet and a strong brand. And can't forget about the airport and the connections they offer. And EK will be daily to GIG and later on to GRU....

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
hardiwv
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RE: THY Istanbul-Sao Paolo Flights In Future

Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:54 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 11):
I doubt there is a demand for a flight to Turkey from São Paulo.

I agree and I also think that onward connections from IST to other Middle Eastern destinations is quite limited.

On the contrary, if EK starts operations DXB-GRU/GIG it will not only allow for connections to other Middle Eastern + Gulf destinations, but also to China and South Asia (e.g. India). EK is also a better known airline.

However, recently EK representative stated that there are NO plans to start flights to Brazil in the short/medium term. No mention was made to which airport they would operate in Brazil as well, since this flight is not in the current plans of EK expansion.

On a different note, any chance of TK joining Star Alliance? This would certainly improve TK chances in GRU.

Rgs,
 
N503JB
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RE: THY Istanbul-Sao Paolo Flights In Future

Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:28 am

Quoting Antiuser (Reply 5):
The distance between IST and GRU would be around 5689nm. The A343's range is 6700nm, so I guess it's possible.

Possible but no cargo at all.

Regards
N503JB
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LAXintl
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RE: THY Istanbul-Sao Paolo Flights In Future

Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:39 pm

I would not take this to be anything more then a long term wish.

The crux of this story has to do with THY and Turkish Government having had a high level delegation in Brazil last week meeting with Embraer regarding the carriers requirement for about 10 small regional jets.

THY barely has the long haul capacity required for current route demands let along add very distant service to South America. One day maybe, but certainly not in the next 3 or so years.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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LTU932
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RE: THY Istanbul-Sao Paolo Flights In Future

Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:09 pm

Quoting Antiuser (Reply 5):
The distance between IST and GRU would be around 5689nm. The A343's range is 6700nm, so I guess it's possible.

An A332 is perfectly capable for this route as well, unless there are some ETOPS restrictions that would prevent an A332 to fly nonstop IST-GRU
 
Brasuca
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RE: THY Istanbul-Sao Paolo Flights In Future

Mon Jan 23, 2006 4:37 am

Well..
First of all, Turkish minister attended a meeting with Brazilian representatives in Brasília, this week, concerning tourism cooperation.
Tourism-wise, one of the points is, of course, access (visa) of tourists and their travel (flights) between both countries. Thus this was no more than an analysis during the meeting.

For those who like dreaming, feel free to. But forget it as one possibly new flight in the medium-term (maybe in 5 or 8 years). There has been talk to launch flights between some countries and Brazil, a none came into reality.

Moreover, TK would face VERY strong competition from European carriers, with better schedule, equipment, award programes, frequencies...

Charters can be done between anywhere in this world, including Turkey and Brazil, but sorry, it would be good to have such a flight between these countries, but it won`t come true any soon.
Varig, Varig, Varig
 
LipeGIG
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RE: THY Istanbul-Sao Paolo Flights In Future

Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:35 am

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 16):
For those who like dreaming, feel free to. But forget it as one possibly new flight in the medium-term (maybe in 5 or 8 years). There has been talk to launch flights between some countries and Brazil, a none came into reality.

Agree 100%. Also they visited Rio and São Paulo, but trade between Brazil and Turkey are very small nowadays, need to grow a lot to justify the flight.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
ThereandBack
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RE: THY Istanbul-Sao Paolo Flights In Future

Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:06 am

I can't find it but yesterday I saw a picture of a TK plane in Brazil.
 
cedarjet
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RE: THY Istanbul-Sao Paolo Flights In Future

Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:15 am

I make IST-GRU about 13h15. I would think an A340 could do it.

Btw no way would Emirates undermine this. Dubai is two hours further (15h20 nonstop + another 3h45 for the DXB-IST connection). Whether TK start Sao Paolo I don't know, but Emirates won't be taking many pax away from them. Flying via Madrid only adds 40mins airborne time to the nonstop, and even via London (a fair way north of the direct route) is four hours faster than via DXB. Loads of ways to join IST and GRU and using Dubai as the connecting point is significantly less convenient than any of them.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
LipeGIG
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RE: THY Istanbul-Sao Paolo Flights In Future

Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:37 am

Quoting Thereandback (Reply 18):
I can't find it but yesterday I saw a picture of a TK plane in Brazil.

You're right. Was a trade mission to Brasilia, São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro.

There is a link for a picture of TK at GIG:

http://www.contatoradar.com.br/forum/index.php?showtopic=5833
Pictures 5 to 8

Felipe

[Edited 2006-01-27 01:38:06]
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
gokmengs
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RE: THY Istanbul-Sao Paolo Flights In Future

Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:18 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 20):
There is a link for a picture of TK at GIG:

I don't speak the language(portugese?) but I think it needs registration could you post the pictures here? Thanks
Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
 
LipeGIG
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RE: THY Istanbul-Sao Paolo Flights In Future

Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:44 am

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 21):
I don't speak the language(portugese?) but I think it needs registration could you post the pictures here? Thanks

I'm sorry. The language is really portuguese and the site requires registration, i forget about this.
I just ask for the spotter to authorize and inform the direct link:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/maniacb/TCJIH_GIG_20_DEC_2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...6/maniacb/TCJIH_GIG_20_JAN_2_2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...6/maniacb/TCJIH_GIG_20_JAN_4_2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...6/maniacb/TCJIH_GIG_20_JAN_6_2.jpg

Wish you like those pictures

Regards
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
gokmengs
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RE: THY Istanbul-Sao Paolo Flights In Future

Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:04 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 22):
I'm sorry. The language is really Portuguese and the site requires registration, I forget about this.
I just ask for the spotter to authorize and inform the direct link:

Thanks a lot felipe nice pics.
I really don't see it as a far possibility for TK to start services to GIG or GRU like the other posters. I really believe TK can start services from IST to any major destination being it is Latin America or else and you will fill the plane with healthy yields (say a thrice weekly service) however;

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 14):
The crux of this story has to do with THY and Turkish Government having had a high level delegation in Brazil last week meeting with Embraer regarding the carriers requirement for about 10 small regional jets.

THY barely has the long haul capacity required for current route demands let along add very distant service to South America. One day maybe, but certainly not in the next 3 or so years.

Laxintl is right in his comments about TK being very short on their Long haul A/C.
The funny thing is they have the money and they have the largest growth in Europe, but they wait and wait till its to late to order the A/C. Much of it is political BS its sad.
We will see when and what they will do next.
Thanks for the pics again.
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USADreamliner
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RE: THY Istanbul-Sao Paolo Flights In Future

Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:06 am

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 1):
Do you believe there are enough turkish and brazilian market to fly to SAO??? And what your opinion about future load factors??

Here we go again...So, you think that only pax from Brasil and Turkey are going to use this flight..?


Is all the pax connecting to Egypt, Greece, Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, etc.

Istanbul is in a great point geographically to connect flights to Middle East,North Africa and Europe.

USADreamliner