MAH4546
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ASA Applies For ATL-KIN

Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:41 am

Delta Connection carrier ASA has applied with DOT to begin daily Atlanta-Kingston service this summer with a CRJ-700:

http://dms.dot.gov/search/document.c...m?documentid=382631&docketid=23689

IMO, won't work. Kingston is heavy on the cargo. It is a heavy VFR traffic, with a huge bulk of its US traffic coming from Florida and New York City. They would be better off putting a 738 on the flight because even though it would be difficult to fill, that could be made up for with the needed cargo space. Filling 70 seats with the ATL hub won't be difficult. Satisfying the needs for baggage and cargo will be with an RJ.

Current US airlines to Kingston are American Airlines (MIA), Spirit Airlines (FLL), US Airways (FLL), and Continental (EWR). AirJamaica flies from KIN daily to Miami and New York City and thrice daily to Fort Lauderdale, Kingston's largest US O&D market.
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NLINK
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RE: ASA Applies For ATL-KIN

Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:23 am

Thats easy limit people to 1 Checked bag like EYW and put an embargo on cargo, just take DASH, which has a higher profit margin than big cargo.
 
deltagator
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RE: ASA Applies For ATL-KIN

Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:21 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
It is a heavy VFR traffic,

What does VFR have to do with it? (Pardon my ignorance if it is an obvious answer.)

Doesn't DL provide mainline service down there already or do they codeshare it all with AirJamaica?
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MAH4546
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RE: ASA Applies For ATL-KIN

Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:29 am

Quoting NLINK (Reply 1):
Thats easy limit people to 1 Checked bag like EYW and put an embargo on cargo, just take DASH, which has a higher profit margin than big cargo.

Of course they can, and then they will lose customers who'll be flying AA, JM, etc. instead because those airlines let them take what they need home.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 2):

What does VFR have to do with it? (Pardon my ignorance if it is an obvious answer.)

VFR traffic (Visting Friends & Relatives), especially to the Caribbean, is notorious for taking back a lot of stuff with them.
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GSPITNL
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RE: ASA Applies For ATL-KIN

Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:13 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
They would be better off putting a 738 on the flight because even though it would be difficult to fill, that could be made up for with the needed cargo space.

I agree completely. Put a 738 on the route and sell the F product cheaper to attract more revenue and then do the Y product at a discounted rate to attract vacationers to fly to KIN. Make up the rest of the profit on the route with the heavy cargo!
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md90fan
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RE: ASA Applies For ATL-KIN

Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:23 pm

Another DL RJ Carribean route  wink  This route can support something larger IMO but how long will the flight be and does DL still have RJ's on CVG-MBJ(along with 738) and CVG-NAS? What are the other DL RJ Carribean routes?
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king
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RE: ASA Applies For ATL-KIN

Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:33 pm

Maybe DL wants to see how the route will do. If it does well and can support a larger aircraft, DL will put a larger aircraft with more capacity on the route.
 
ejmmsu
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RE: ASA Applies For ATL-KIN

Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:51 pm

Is DL replacing a mainline aircraft with a CRJ? No. This is simply a new route. This is simply in addition to the current KIN service. So what if it can't carry much cargo. Its going to be in addition to the current cargo capacity into KIN.
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rwsea
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RE: ASA Applies For ATL-KIN

Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:10 pm

I agree that this plane is too small. However, it's true that the 738 would be tough to fill - KIN isn't really the tourist destination that MBJ is. It's flights like these where DL might be able to find a need for the 73G further down the road (also for some of the more recent Carribbean destinations).

Either way, I wish them luck on the route. The ATL hub is strategically located for connections from most parts of the country to the Carribbean and Latin America. While AA offers the most flights, MIA is a mess and they don't even offer service there from many cities. For instance, to fly SEA-Carribbean on AA, one has to connect twice, usually in MIA and DFW because there is no SEA-MIA direct on AA (they codeshare with AS but that only works going in one direction because of the flight time). DL is much more convenient with only one stop in ATL.

I wonder if DL will consider a daily ATL-PAP in the future? Given the lack of competition at PAP, yields are high. Sure there's not much O&D, but they could probably fill a daily with connecting traffic.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: ASA Applies For ATL-KIN

Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:27 pm

About time DL(ASA) goes for this route. IMHO, KIN was always a gap in DL's route network from ATL, and it was only a matter of time before it would added. Also, like others, I suspect DL will just be testing the waters of this route, and once the route has proven itself loadwise, perhaps even by adding a second daily flight, it would only be a question of time before DL will apply for this route with a 738.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 8):
I wonder if DL will consider a daily ATL-PAP in the future? Given the lack of competition at PAP, yields are high. Sure there's not much O&D, but they could probably fill a daily with connecting traffic.

Guess that could depend on the political situation in Haiti, though I'm honestly not aware of the current ongoings. But anyway, should DL launch this route, it'd probably start out with saturday-only service.
 
MAH4546
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RE: ASA Applies For ATL-KIN

Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:09 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 9):

Guess that could depend on the political situation in Haiti, though I'm honestly not aware of the current ongoings. But anyway, should DL launch this route, it'd probably start out with saturday-only service.

If DL were to launch PAP it would - like SDQ and STI - be launched from JFK. JFK would also be a better launching point for KIN, because they could easily send and fill a mainline plane. The problem with "testing the waters" using a CR7 is that they are instantly going to turn customers away from the service because they won't be able to meet their demands for luggage and cargo. So that right there doesn't allow them the oppurtunity to grow in the market. That is exactly what happened with jetBlue using the A320 on JFK-SDQ.
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rwsea
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RE: ASA Applies For ATL-KIN

Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:16 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 9):
Guess that could depend on the political situation in Haiti, though I'm honestly not aware of the current ongoings. But anyway, should DL launch this route, it'd probably start out with saturday-only service.

It would not be Saturday only - there are absolutely no tourists on this route. It caters to business and VFR traffic pretty much 100%, who need more than 1 flight a week.

I agree that if started, it would be better to start from JFK.
 
md90fan
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RE: ASA Applies For ATL-KIN

Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:18 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
The problem with "testing the waters" using a CR7 is that they are instantly going to turn customers away from the service because they won't be able to meet their demands for luggage and cargo.

Didnt DL recently start ATL-STX(I dont remember the exact code) but also with a CRJ-700?

As for PAP DL could fill the planes up IMO but a CRJ-700 wouldnt be suited something like a 733/8/MD-88 would be more appropriate or even a 757. Does AA still send Airbusses down to Haiti?
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MAH4546
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RE: ASA Applies For ATL-KIN

Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:28 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 12):

Didnt DL recently start ATL-STX(I dont remember the exact code) but also with a CRJ-700?

It was launched with a 738, but didn't perform well so was downgraded.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 11):
It caters to business and VFR traffic pretty much 100%, who need more than 1 flight a week.

Air Canada has been flying to PAP Saturday-only from Montreal for years now, doing just fine. The VFR market can handle Saturday-only.
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FLYACYYZ
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RE: ASA Applies For ATL-KIN

Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:40 am

Have you ever witnessed check-in for a KIN flight? The baggage is a logistical nightmare, and great expense and inconvenience would be spent interlining it to the final destination. Many airlines operating to the Jamaica impose summer and holiday baggage embargos. Should be interesting.
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panamair
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RE: ASA Applies For ATL-KIN

Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:53 am

Well, it's been officially announced today:

http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/060202/93402.html

Service will start June 1 with a combination of mainline 738s and ASA CR7 based on seasonal demand..
 
Billy
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RE: ASA Applies For ATL-KIN

Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:59 am

So I assume that the CR7s are over-water equipped. Usually, the regional jets, and a lot of the narrow-body fleets do not have the over-water equipment to allow Caribbean or Mexico flights.
 
OttoPylit
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RE: ASA Applies For ATL-KIN

Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:46 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
IMO, won't work. Kingston is heavy on the cargo. It is a heavy VFR traffic, with a huge bulk of its US traffic coming from Florida and New York City. They would be better off putting a 738 on the flight because even though it would be difficult to fill, that could be made up for with the needed cargo space.

What? Effective 1June there will already be a 738 on the route, flight 281. The flight is planned with a 738 week around, and depending on if the ASA application is approved, it will be juggled from 738 to CR7 based on seasonal demand. But as of now, the ASA application is only for that. If the application is rejected, DL will continue the flight with 738 all week like it is already scheduled.

Per the press release: "Delta and Delta Connection carrier Atlantic Southeast Airlines will operate the new service to Kingston year-round using a mix of Boeing 737-800 and Bombardier CRJ700 aircraft, based on seasonal demand."

Once again, as of right now, the schedule is 738 7 days a week.



OttoPylit

Edit: Dang it Panamair, you beat me to it.

[Edited 2006-02-02 21:47:33]
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MAH4546
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RE: ASA Applies For ATL-KIN

Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:05 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 17):
What? Effective 1June there will already be a 738 on the route, flight 281. The flight is planned with a 738 week around, and depending on if the ASA application is approved, it will be juggled from 738 to CR7 based on seasonal demand. But as of now, the ASA application is only for that. If the application is rejected, DL will continue the flight with 738 all week like it is already scheduled.

Per the press release: "Delta and Delta Connection carrier Atlantic Southeast Airlines will operate the new service to Kingston year-round using a mix of Boeing 737-800 and Bombardier CRJ700 aircraft, based on seasonal demand."

Once again, as of right now, the schedule is 738 7 days a week.

You are quoting me from almost two weeks ago. At the time I wrote that, I had no idea Delta was planning on using a 738, since the PR was sent out today.
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deltagator
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RE: ASA Applies For ATL-KIN

Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:03 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 2):

What does VFR have to do with it? (Pardon my ignorance if it is an obvious answer.)

VFR traffic (Visting Friends & Relatives), especially to the Caribbean, is notorious for taking back a lot of stuff with them.

Thanks. Silly old me thinking Visual Flight Rules.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
OttoPylit
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RE: ASA Applies For ATL-KIN

Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:30 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
You are quoting me from almost two weeks ago. At the time I wrote that, I had no idea Delta was planning on using a 738, since the PR was sent out today.

I was informed when I got the information(also about 2 weeks ago) that it would be a 738. My info comes directly from the people who make those decisions. The ASA application was a bonus of "let's have EV apply just in case loads aren't warranted year round."

Other than that, nothing has changed.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 19):
Silly old me thinking Visual Flight Rules.

LOL Same here, that was what I thought when I first saw it. What do Visual Flight Rules have to do with route planning? LOL



OttoPylit
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Tango-Bravo
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RE: ASA Applies For ATL-KIN

Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:50 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Delta Connection carrier ASA has applied with DOT to begin daily Atlanta-Kingston service this summer with a CRJ-700

Thank you (sincerely!) for an accurate topic title, instead of the misleading "Delta Applies For..." or "Delta Announces New Service To..." titles that we typically see when, in reality, the flights are yet more RJ service from a legacy surrogate airline.

Have to say I can't see the sense in DL* (opb ASA) ATL-KIN with CR7, but who knows? Let's see how it "plays out."

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