lhrneighbour
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:10 am

Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:59 am

Hi there, this is my first Post regarding a matter I can't seem to figure out or find an answer to, so please help me.
On a recent Ryanair (737-800) flight from Stansted to Almeria, I boarded the outbound flight from the rear and everyone was instructed not to sit in the last four rows of seats during take-off or landing. On my return flight I boarded the aircraft from the front and was instructed not to sit in the first eight rows of seats, again during take-off or landing, and when I sat down in the exit seat above the wing, I noticed that the return flight had a series of empty rows at the back too. This is something I can't figure out an explanation for, and this was one of a few queries I had with our flight.
The other two concerns I had became self explanatory (ice on the wing which had to be sprayed with a can of de-icer when we departed Almeria [despite it being 11degrees centigrade] and the reason why they over estimate the flight time by 30 minutes, just like a Pizza Hut delivery, so Ryanair remain "The On Time Airline").
I can only imagine that the empty rows of seats were due to weight distribution, but I'm not so sure. I suppose it doesn't help when I check in over 5kg of excess baggage!
James
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:08 am

I can only imagine that it was a weight and balance issue.

However these issues are fairly uncommon on such large aircraft.

Who knows??????????
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
KA501
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 10:27 pm

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:16 am

The cabin crew clean the aircraft between flights so less work to do and a reduction in turnaround time!
 
Gofly
Posts: 1579
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 4:12 am

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:22 am

Some good answers in these threads:  Smile
Why Couldn't We Sit In The Last 4 Rows? (by Climb1 May 19 2005 in Civil Aviation) Why Are Ryanair's Front Rows Empty? (by Ssides Sep 21 2003 in Civil Aviation)

-Gofly  Smile
Living the high life on my ex-Airliners.net Moderator pension...
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:24 am

Hi Lhrneighbour


there was another thread about this recently ... but I have just spent ten minutes on the accursed search engine and failed to find it - I am pretty sure that the answer had to do with a/c trim - bearing in mind that FR don't carry freight and they discourage checked luggage that would mean that the bulk of the onboard weight is the pax and handluggage to their distribution would have a proportionately greater effect on the a/c trim than on a conventional airline with lots of other payload to figure in .


edited to add - seeing the post prior to mine I now know why I got nowhere on the search engine ... it didn't mention Ryanair in the topic for the recent thread

[Edited 2006-01-21 22:25:26]
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2887
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:35 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 1):
However these issues are fairly uncommon on such large aircraft.

Weight distribution can be an issue even on the larger 737-900, even when the flight is at more than 80% of seats occupied. Likewise, the same can be an issue on a 737-300 with about 25 seats occupied. Both observations are based on actual flight experiences where some pax needed to be moved for proper weight distribution.
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16014
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:37 am

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 4):
they discourage checked luggage

No they don't. They don't make passengers pay extra for checked-in luggage. Passengers can certainly have check-in luggage within the weight limit. If, of course, they go over it, then they rightly have to pay for the excess. I hope they eventually adopt a 'pay-for-check-in-luggage' policy.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:40 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 6):
Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 4):
they discourage checked luggage

No they don't. They don't make passengers pay extra for checked-in luggage. Passengers can certainly have check-in luggage within the weight limit. If, of course, they go over it, then they rightly have to pay for the excess. I hope they eventually adopt a 'pay-for-check-in-luggage' policy.

ooops , my mistake , I'm thinking Flybe , aren't I ?
 
TheSorcerer
Posts: 1003
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:35 am

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:57 am

My guess is that it's to do with weight distribution and they have to block certain rows because there is no seat allocation system on FR.  Smile
ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
 
tornado
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:03 pm

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:58 am

on my last flight with skyeurope they did the same thing, kept the first 4 rows empty. cabin crew said it was a balancing-issue.
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16014
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:58 am

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 7):
ooops , my mistake , I'm thinking Flybe , aren't

Yep.  Smile
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
lehovec
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:21 pm

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:23 am

Friend of mine is cabin crew for FR and I asked him recently about this matter and he said that they have to do it according to the manual. Reason behind it is balance and fuel.
 
HS748
Posts: 621
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:01 am

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:46 am

This only ever happens on 737s, the A320 is obviously a much better aircraft!
 
Orion737
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:14 pm

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:51 am

No because TCX were at the same game on a recent flight on a 320. We at the back were asked to shift forward as the flight was only half full and it was to do with balancing us all out.
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16014
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:52 am

Quoting HS748 (Reply 12):
This only ever happens on 737s, the A320 is obviously a much better aircraft!

 rotfl  It's always nice when people consider numerous elements before reaching a decision. 'X airline is SOOOO good because they have a GREEEAAATTT livery.'  rotfl 
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2887
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:41 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 6):
I hope they eventually adopt a 'pay-for-check-in-luggage' policy.

Wouldn't pax then be encouraged to carry onboard (seemingly) all of their earthly possessions, including the provebial kitchen sink? Since it seems that every cubic inch/cm of space for carry-on luggage -- and often more -- is consistently used on full or nearly full flights, where would pax stow their "kitchen sinks?"

If Ryanair could/would be consistent in limiting carry-on luggage to appropriate amounts, I too would give "thumbs up" to reasonable fees (5-10 Euros per piece if within current dimensions/weight allowed for no charge) for checked luggage. Ryanair, after all, seems to take pride in writing the proverbial "how to" book on operating a less-than-no-frills airline; surprised they haven't seen checked luggage as yet another potential revenue stream.
 
HS748
Posts: 621
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:01 am

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:49 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 13):
No because TCX were at the same game on a recent flight on a 320. We at the back were asked to shift forward as the flight was only half full and it was to do with balancing us all out.



Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 14):
It's always nice when people consider numerous elements before reaching a decision. 'X airline is SOOOO good because they have a GREEEAAATTT livery.'

You people are so gaumless it just takes all the fun out of trying to wind you up.
 
Joost
Posts: 1844
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:27 pm

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:20 pm

A friend of mine told me once being in a MP 742, not fully loaded, that at takeoff from HER on way to AMS, that everybody had to sit up in front too. If the story is true (and why wouldn't it - he knows what's a 747) , then it even matters with such large aircraft.

And even if it saves only a few gallons of fuel, it is worth it. The reason people notice it on FR, is of course because they do not assign seats first.
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16014
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:08 am

Tango-Bravo:

It would result in fewer people taking check-in luggage, while generating revenue which would help in offsetting the cost of the fuel.

It would act an an incentive for people to think 'oooh, do I REALLY need to take that?' If enough people think like this and decide not to take what they don't really need, the amount spent on fuel would be reduced - in time.

It would also mean that costs related to luggage, such as the transportation of it from the check-in desk to the aircraft and then back to the terminal at the destination, would be reduced.

There would be fewer delays as a result of baggage and also fewer baggage loses.

Yes, you'd have to increase your hand-luggage allowance, perhaps by 5 KGs per person, but even then you'd get swifter turnarounds, which would help reduce your airport costs, and fewer delays (...).

If the you suceed in making people think twice about taking stuff they don't really need, then they might take less as hand-luggage as well, which would, again, result in less fuel and thus less fuel costs.

All of those cost savings could be passed onto the consumer in the form of lower prices.

It would also mean that those who take the most pay for it (obviously check-in luggage is normally heavier than carry-on bags). I am all in favour of paying for what you want and not for what you don't - like refreshments and IFE.

An added incentive for taking carry-on luggage and not check-in might be online check-in (where you check-in yourself and print your boarding card): it would mean your time at the airport would be reduced (and thus your stress levels reduced) if you just take carry-on stuff.

A potential downside is a complex system: would one check-in bag be charged the same as a heavier one? Is that fair? How would you know? I guess a one-price-for-all would be the best and most simple way of doing it, with an pre-bookable on-line rate (what, £3? 4.50 EUR?) and an at-the-airport rate (more expensive - £4? 6 EUR?). Needless to say, you wouldn't get a refund if you didn't take the check-in bag with you.

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 15):
If Ryanair could/would be consistent in limiting carry-on luggage to appropriate amounts

Ryanair is, quite possibly, the harshest airline for check-in/carry-on luggage: if it is even slightly over, you'd almost certainly have to pay for it.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Go3Team
Posts: 3156
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:19 am

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:19 am

I think these FR seat threads are going to take over the NW DC-9 / A vs B threads for top spot.
Yay Pudding!
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16014
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:50 am

Quoting Go3Team (Reply 19):
I think these FR seat threads are going to take over the NW DC-9 / A vs B threads for top spot.

*Cough*Bollocks*Cough*

By the way, when are NW's DC-9 machines going?

Which is better: Airbus or Boeing?
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Joost
Posts: 1844
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:27 pm

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:10 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 18):
Ryanair is, quite possibly, the harshest airline for check-in/carry-on luggage: if it is even slightly over, you'd almost certainly have to pay for it.

I found this to be varying from person to person. Last summer, I was traveling on a group of 4 on Ryanair, all without checked luggage. Behind us was a group of 5 or 6 (also Dutch) youngsters, who had way to much luggage - the lady at the check-in desk even suggested that she'd put the luggage on our names, so she did not have to charge anyone for the extra luggage.

In NRN I found another opposite, that our hand luggage was 9.9 kg and 10.1 kg and that she could only accept it if I'd transfer a t-shirt from one bag to the other.
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16014
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:17 am

Quoting Joost (Reply 21):
I found this to be varying from person to person. Last summer, I was traveling on a group of 4 on Ryanair, all without checked luggage. Behind us was a group of 5 or 6 (also Dutch) youngsters, who had way to much luggage - the lady at the check-in desk even suggested that she'd put the luggage on our names, so she did not have to charge anyone for the extra luggage.

In NRN I found another opposite, that our hand luggage was 9.9 kg and 10.1 kg and that she could only accept it if I'd transfer a t-shirt from one bag to the other.

I see. From what my parents, other family and my friends have said, they've always stuck rigidly to it.  Smile But it's good to hear that it does vary (well, from my point-of-view anyway). I never take much anyway - always carry-on - so it wouldn't effect me.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Aisak
Posts: 549
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:56 pm

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:53 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 18):
It would also mean that costs related to luggage, such as the transportation of it from the check-in desk to the aircraft and then back to the terminal at the destination, would be reduced.

There would be fewer delays as a result of baggage and also fewer baggage loses.

Yes, you'd have to increase your hand-luggage allowance, perhaps by 5 KGs per person, but even then you'd get swifter turnarounds, which would help reduce your airport costs, and fewer delays (...).

That would also mean people having hevier and larger carry-ons that even within the limits (115 linear cms and 10 Kg) means more time for rotations.

Also the Check-in baggage is weigthed with computered balances meaning it's simpler to calculate fuel out of them than carry-ons

Quoting Joost (Reply 21):
In NRN I found another opposite, that our hand luggage was 9.9 kg and 10.1 kg and that she could only accept it if I'd transfer a t-shirt from one bag to the other.

That's silly... but its ryanair policy. Even if they check all the hand luggage and put an OK sticker on them..... You can always open and fill it prior to boarding
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16014
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:04 am

Quoting Aisak (Reply 23):
That would also mean people having hevier and larger carry-ons that even within the limits (115 linear cms and 10 Kg) means more time for rotations.

I don't understand your point. More time for rotations = increased aircraft and staff utilisation (and thus increased productivity), or requiring more time on the ground (and thus increased costs, less productivity and generally less efficient)?
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Aisak
Posts: 549
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:56 pm

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:16 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 24):
or requiring more time on the ground

More time required to board, put stuff up there, inconveniences of bigger carry-ons like "get that backpack out of my face" ... same for getting off....

Any LCC policy should be "quick in, quick out" (no jokes please Big grin)
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16014
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:26 am

Quoting Aisak (Reply 25):
More time required to board, put stuff up there, inconveniences of bigger carry-ons like "get that backpack out of my face" ... same for getting off....

Hmm. I agree to a certain extent, but I think it's more about altering the mind-set of the passengers. If they have to pay to take carry-on luggage, I would hope that they'd sit back and ask themselves whether they could get away with taking less stuff. This would then mean, I hope, and in time, that people take less stuff with them. Moreover, if you only increase the carry-on amount by, say, 5 KG - and strictly enforce it - I don't see how that'd result in any real delay - and, indeed, I think that it'd be beneficial, especially in comparison to so much check-in luggage and the consequencial expenses, delays and potential hassles (bags going missing).

Quoting Aisak (Reply 25):
Any LCC policy should be "quick in, quick out"

Yes, of course. And I am confident that a pay-for-checked-in-bag concept would enable the aircraft to be in-and-out more quickly than with as much checked-in luggage. If the same amount of people still checked-in luggage, then the money they have paid would help offset the associated costs. I do think, though, that more-and-more people would take carry-on luggage (up to the agree limit) and that the turnaround would be expedited while the costs (related to the transportation of baggage and airport costs) would be reduced and partially offset by the generation of the revenue.

[Edited 2006-01-22 23:29:32]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
EZYAirbus
Posts: 2320
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2003 4:57 am

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:41 am

idiots that load them wanna put the bags in the bag then instead of jamming the front hold first
http://www.glenneldridgeaviation.com
 
JayDavis
Posts: 1870
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 1:09 pm

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:23 am

I flew on Ryanair recently between LGW and SNN and then from SNN to Liverpool (don't know the code !!) and each time, row two was blocked off, but row one was full of people.

Now that IS odd. It was only row 2 that was blocked off and only on the port side of the plane.


Jay
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16014
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:38 am

Quoting JayDavis (Reply 28):
Liverpool (don't know the code !!)

LPL.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
JayDavis
Posts: 1870
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 1:09 pm

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:39 am

I thought it might be LPL but wasn't 100% sure.

I still wonder why row 2 on the port side was blocked off???
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:02 pm

Quoting Lhrneighbour (Thread starter):
and the reason why they over estimate the flight time by 30 minutes, just like a Pizza Hut delivery, so Ryanair remain "The On Time Airline").

All airlines do that, not just FR
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16014
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Ryanair Empty Rows Of Seats

Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:40 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 31):

All airlines do that, not just FR

Yep.

This is something which really pisses me off (like always talking about loads and never yields).

ALL airlines have BLOCK TIMES. The time stated in a schedule is NOT the FLIGHT TIME - it's the BLOCK TIME.

What does the block time (or brake-off-to-brake-on) comprise? It includes time for taxi at both airports, the flight time and time for short delays. Flight #100 might be scheduled from X at 1000 and scheduled to arrive at Y at 1100. The actual flight time might only be 40 minutes.

If the aircraft departed at 1010, it is likely that it'd arrive about 1050 - thus 10 minutes before 1100. Add to this the 25/30/40/45 minutes turnaround, and... Or if #140 was 0930-1130 and the flight was about 1 1/2 hours and it departed at 0935, it'd arrive about 1105 - 25 mins before 1130. It's great.

So, please remember that the time stated in schedules is the block time and not merely the flight time.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."