gkirk
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Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:09 pm

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-2003500,00.html

An interesting part is
"The deal also represents a significant coup for the European plane maker in its tussle with Boeing."

Given that EI is now an all Airbus airline anyway, I fail to see how this is a coup for Airbus?

Anyway, good news for EI, Airbus and the A330 family
Oh, and also

"The double-decker A350 is the European manufacturer’s answer to the highly successful Boeing 787."
 rotfl 
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BestWestern
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:12 pm

Quoting Shamrock330 (Reply 1):
there is a thread already started on this....sorry mate

And delted...

As many here will know, I am really disappointed with EI choosing Airbus. The 787 would be perfect for them, but wasn't to be. The 330 has served EI well, and so will the 350.

Boeing fought hard for this order. Really hard - why - because they had an excellent chance of winning it. Boeing knows that EI is a small carrier, but punches well above its weight, with other same size (and bigger) airlines looking to Aer Lingus, and what they are doing.

Aer Lingus chose the best aircraft for their needs, and they know best. In no way is this a political order.

Quoting CV990 (Reply 13): In original thread
"fluffy"

Fluffy is such an arrogant word in these cases- and probably sums up how boeing felt about airbus airline wins in the late 90's. I really do hope that Boeing dont feel, and act like this anymore.
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PM
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:21 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 2):
I am really disappointed with EI choosing Airbus. The 787 would be perfect for them, but wasn't to be.

These A330s are a stop-gap. They aren't being ordered instead of 787s. The report suggests that a decision has not been made between the 787 and A350. (Though I agree that Airbus must have an advantage at present.)
 
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PM
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:39 pm

Why was the original thread deleted?  Confused

Was it a copyright issue?
 
BestWestern
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:47 pm

Was it a copyright issue?

Most probably
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:05 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 4):
Was it a copyright issue?

I'm guessing you can post a link to the article and quote parts of it but not the whole thing. Maybe that was the problem. Shame. It was a nice little thread...
 
kaitak
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:23 pm

Well, it's a movement in the right direction anyway. Aer Lingus will be ordering four new A330s (model not specified) for delivery beginning later this year and into '07. The airline will be benefiting from the change's to Ireland's bilateral with the US (part of the overall EU/US package) and this will result in two major changes from November:
- EI will be able to add three new cities in the US, and
- The ratio of flights between DUB:SNN will be increased from the current 1:1 to 3:1 in Dublin's favour. This means that if EI operates 13 flights a week from SNN (with two acft based there), it could have 39 nonstops from DUB - five nonstops plus four extras, so it gives them plenty of leeway to add new flights.

EI doesn't necessarily have to add the three new destinations from day one; Winter isn't necessarily the best time to add new routes (although a route to Florida could be launched).

As I mentioned, it's not clear what models the new planes will be; they could well be -300Xs, which would have sufficient range to reach SFO from DUB. We'll see quite shortly, I'm sure.

Another plus will be that the new aircraft can have factory fitted IFE, which means that the new aircraft will have PTVs from day one and I'm sure EI will be reviewing its business class service, which hasn't seen investment in years. The airline has an imminent need, also, to update its IFE in the remaining two A330-200s (only of of the three has PTVs) and this needs to be done before the new Dubai route opens.

The other problem the airline faces (and for which more than the four ordered aircraft might be required) is that the current four A330-300s need to be replaced. These are very early models and barely have the legs for anything west of Chicago; fit these with PTVs and the weight constraint will be too much; of course, they could do this and then just limit the old 330s to BOS and JFK.

I thought it might be possible for them to get A340s, like AY are doing, but they have problems with DUB's runway. Still, it might be possible to get some as a stopgap; it all depends on what's available.

As for the A350 order, EI will be discussing options with the various leasing agencies and Airbus itself, to get the best possible deal. We'll know pretty soon, I would say.

Oh well, 787/777s would have been nice, but the 330s and 350s will serve the airline well. That's Aer Lingus's fleet for the next 20 years, in one form or another. When it next decides to change its fleet, there'll be flying wings and secondhand A380s ...

As for
 
FCKC
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:49 pm

This is interesting to see that airlines wishing A350 have found a solution to wait for the delivery of this highly efficient plane , and do not drop on the 787 train.
After interim solutions found by TAP (A330) , Finnair (A340) , now Aer Lingus (A330).Who's next ? Viva Macau ? Bangkok Aw ?
Probably the very high resale value of A330 and of course great Airbus deal are strong key in these decisions.
Boeing can't do the same , as the 767 is outdated , and the A330 is far more efficient plane.The sole solution they have , is to buy.........A330s themselves and lease them to airlines !!!!!
 
sabenapilot
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:04 pm

Quoting FCKC (Reply 7):
Boeing can't do the same, as the 767 is outdated and the A330 is far more efficient plane. The sole solution they have, is to buy.........A330s themselves and lease them to airlines !!!!!

Nah, they prefer to buy A340-300 which they subsequently have to park for years!  banghead 

More seriously, the A330 is such a good plane, there aren't any up for sale on the second hand market and only 3/5 (depending on the count) are available for lease! Which is why all these stop-gap deals include new-builts members of the A330/A340 family! Seeing the high demand for this plane (the A330 just had its second best year ever last year, despite the 787 and A350), there shouldn't be a problem finding second hand users for these planes early next decade.

Clever sales strategy from Airbus!
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:06 pm

This is good news! New A330s for Aer Lingus is a big step for them and their expansion hopes.
I hope we can look foward to an A350 order very soon. New IFE would be great and an updated business class would be even better. I am very happy that EI have gone with Airbus although Boeing would have been great, I just tend to like Airbus a bit more.

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BestWestern
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:13 pm

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 9):
New IFE would be great and an updated business class would be even better.

This was promised by the new CEO. He will deliver. However, he comes from Emirates, who dont believe in providing the best of the best in terms of business class and IFE.
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cricket
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:16 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 6):
I thought it might be possible for them to get A340s, like AY are doing, but they have problems with DUB's runway.

But I thought EI operated the classic 747, that must have used more r/w than a new A340?
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AeroTycoon
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:31 pm

Very simple. In the longhaul markets they want to exand what they are doing well currently, mostly long haul to the states. A330s do the job well for them for now and more A330s means less money spent on training and maintenance.

A longer range aircraft such as the A350 or 787 will very likely be added to their fleet.

AT$$
 
Kangar
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:50 pm

There could definitely be an argument made at this point that the A330's real world advantage in the market at present is helping to enable A350 sales, i.e. Airbus seem to have a slightly stronger bridging strategy to get airlines through to the forthcoming 787/A350 era.
 
kaitak
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:39 pm

Cricket,
Although you're quite correct that EI flew 747s - and for many years, the ability to fly nonstop only came about in 1993-4, shortly before the aircraft left the EI fleet. It's incredible to think that it's already a full decade since the much loved old 747 left the Aer Lingus fleet.

However, for most of the 747's career, it had to fly via SNN and that was quite an experience, because the aircraft was very light indeed - takeoffs were accomplished in about 15-20 seconds!

When the 747s did, finally, fly nonstop, they only flew 747s to New York and while it required full power, they had just enough length to do this. It was frustrating for EI and I'm sure that they must have been appalled when the runway was made so short, but this is never mentioned now; although times have changed a lot, EI never question the govt in question - or govt aviation policy generally.
 
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Btriple7
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:52 pm

Copyright issues?! Well, I learned a new A.net rule today. Only post part of a copyrighted material. Oh well, no worries.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 6):
The ratio of flights between DUB:SNN will be increased from the current 1:1 to 3:1 in Dublin's favour.

That would be nice. It would also bring down the fares.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 6):
EI doesn't necessarily have to add the three new destinations from day one; Winter isn't necessarily the best time to add new routes (although a route to Florida could be launched).

I wouldn't expect EI to start any new routes till the spring of '07. I'm thinking that EI will use the new A330s to replace the other A330s while they a being retrofitted with new interiors. That way EI can get some much needed upgrading done without cancelling any flights.

I expect SFO to be the first new EI longhaul. It has been talked about for almost two years now. Florida doesn't seem to offer a year-round route for EI, whereas SFO will give EI a destination that will sell in summer and winter.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 10):

This was promised by the new CEO. He will deliver. However, he comes from Emirates, who dont believe in providing the best of the best in terms of business class and IFE.

I think Dermot Mannion already has his name tied to a new EI longhaul product. He will provide a good business class with a modern IFE whether he likes it or not. He has already promised that to EI.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 11):
But I thought EI operated the classic 747, that must have used more r/w than a new A340?

I don't think those 747s were fully loaded. I believe they were filled with just enough fuel to make it to New York. An A340 would have to be filled up with a fairly large tank of petrol to make it to SFO. Until DUB extends their runways, A340s are simply too heavy.


This is all great news for Aer Lingus and Airbus. I'm glad EI is getting some new aircraft. I'm looking forward to seeing the new birds.

Best Regards,
Btriple7
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shamrock350
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:08 am

Quoting Btriple7 (Reply 15):
This is all great news for Aer Lingus and Airbus. I'm glad EI is getting some new aircraft. I'm looking forward to seeing the new birds.

Me too! The new A320s that we have seen over the past year look great and I'm sure new A330s we look even better.
I suppose we will hear what model the new A330s will be very soon? I think we are talking -300Xs?
 
Kangar
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:05 am

I gotta admit, I would've loved to see a 777 in EI's colours, although the A330s definitely look the part. Would be nice to see an overhaul of the long distance economy entertainment and business class product though.
One question, does anyone know what the plans are to finance this purchase?
Cheers
Kangar
 
Amy
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:13 am

Quoting Cricket (Reply 11):
classic 747, that must have used more r/w than a new A340?

-500, yes

-300, nooooooooooooooo
A340-300 - slow, but awesome!
 
egmcman
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:19 am

Quoting Btriple7 (Reply 15):
I'm thinking that EI will use the new A330s to replace the other A330s while they a being retrofitted with new interiors. That way EI can get some much needed upgrading done without canceling any flights.

I heard on another list that some of the older 330's IFE can't be upgraded anyone know why?
Are these new 330's GE going to be powered?

Good news for Airbus & EI.
 
aerlingusa330
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:52 am

EI downgraded their Business Class (Premier) service a few years back on the 330's. The seats use to be all green leather. Then they changed to cloth seats and the service went downhill a bit.

Does anyone know why they changed from the really really comfy leather seats to uncomfortable, dirt-collecting cloth? I can't find a reason...?

I look forward to the new 330's Smile
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shamrock350
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:09 am

Quoting Kangar (Reply 17):
I gotta admit, I would've loved to see a 777 in EI's colours

777s would look very nice and and would sort of remind me of the KLM 777s. All my 777 flights have been very good. It is one of the most comfortable aircraft ever and Aer Lingus must have thought very hard about them but I am very happy with the idea of flying a brand new A330 with Aer Lingus.
Just looked and the front page of airliers.net and noticed both this topic and the Ryanair one are next to each other, for some reason it made me smile thinking that they will soon go into a fierce battle at DUB.

[Edited 2006-01-22 21:18:27]
 
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Btriple7
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:16 am

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 19):
I heard on another list that some of the older 330's IFE can't be upgraded anyone know why?

The old A333 could not be equipped with a modern IFE because of weight restrictions. Modern IFE adds quite a few pounds to the airframe. If you put a modern IFE on the old A333, they would not have the range to reach even ORD. The new A330-300Xs, however, have the range to make it to the westcoast of the US with a modern IFE. Kaitak explains it quite well here:

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 6):
The other problem the airline faces (and for which more than the four ordered aircraft might be required) is that the current four A330-300s need to be replaced. These are very early models and barely have the legs for anything west of Chicago; fit these with PTVs and the weight constraint will be too much; of course, they could do this and then just limit the old 330s to BOS and JFK.



Quoting Egmcman (Reply 19):
Are these new 330's GE going to be powered?

Presumably yes. I doubt EI would change engine manufactures now. GE gets the job done well.

Regards,
Btriple7
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whitehatter
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:27 am

Quoting Btriple7 (Reply 22):
Presumably yes. I doubt EI would change engine manufactures now. GE gets the job done well.

longstanding arrangement, GE powers the EI fleet. It's also an indicator of Willie Walsh and the way he thinks, which is GE powered Airbus aircraft are first choice to him for longhaul. That was attributed to him when he was shadowing Rod Eddington at BA.

BA could stay with RR but GE could be welcomed back into the fold at British Airways, especially now the engine contract has been renegotiated and signed. But to get back on topic, EI policy is GE for large engines and CFM for shorthaulers.

Quoting PM (Reply 2):

These A330s are a stop-gap. They aren't being ordered instead of 787s. The report suggests that a decision has not been made between the 787 and A350. (Though I agree that Airbus must have an advantage at present.)

It would indicate that Airbus can't take the order as a given. If they want the next fleet tranche then they have to fight for it. Which is as it should be considering that both aircraft offer a GE option, which is EI fleet policy. Although preference for Airbus will count for a lot.
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smokeyrosco
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:43 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 23):
It would indicate that Airbus can't take the order as a given. If they want the next fleet tranche then they have to fight for it. Which is as it should be considering that both aircraft offer a GE option, which is EI fleet policy. Although preference for Airbus will count for a lot.

I am still 99.9999999% sure that that they will go 350, in my opinion this statement is to keep Airbus on their toes, if the deal is not signed but airbus thinks they have it, they could jack up the price, thats business. If you think it's still possible you won't get it you'll keep your prices lower.
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aerokiwi
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:55 am

I think it is telling that EI did not place an order or announce any intention to purchase the A350 with this order, as TAP did with their A330 purchase. Yes, no 787 mentioned either, but with no hint at an A350 purchase, I suspect the airline is still evaluating both types.

Considering this is Airbus' order to lose, not a good sign for the A350.

In any case, I think it's a good move by EI. The A330 (the -200 especially) is an excellent aircraft for them and I think is unfrotunately being prematurely undermined by the A350.
 
kaitak
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:05 am

Aerokiwi, I think it's more a matter of dollars and cents; Aer Lingus needs a fleet of about 16 widebody aircraft by the middle of the next decade and while it's doing well, it's not exactly "rolling in it"; it's always been relatively conservative in its orders and while I fully expect that the 350 will be ordered, little more can be read into the fact that it has not been, at this stage, than the fact that the number of planes EI requires will need a lot of financing. This is why I say, above, that they are probably having talks with the various lessors as well as with Airbus. They also need to work out how many other interim aircraft they need.

As for Willie Walsh and the GE engines, I don't think he has much to do with them; he was CEO from 2001 to 2004; the A330s were in operation since 1994. The GE engines have indeed served EI very well and I should think they will be perfectly happy to continue operating them. Of course, RR will probably - and should - try to steal them away, but they'd need a very good deal.
 
EI101
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:25 am

So the consensus is that all of these will be 330-300Xs, and not a mix of -300 and -200, or even just -200 series?

I agree with Kaitak - Im sure that if EI could've made a full, 14-unit A350 order today, it would, and that these 4 interim 330s are merely the most EI could afford to commit to at this point in time. There seems to be a lot of (political) uncertainty around about the privatisation of aer lingus, and with a general election on the horizon, I wouldn't hold my breath on rapid government action.

Unfortunately, Id say the 350 order is now at least 3 years away. Hopefully, Im wrong.
 
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Btriple7
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:42 am

Quoting EI101 (Reply 27):
Unfortunately, Id say the 350 order is now at least 3 years away.

Three years?! I think EI will have choosen between the A350/787 (must likely A350) by the end of '06 (if not then early '07). The order is no more than a two years off.

Regards,
Btriple7
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babybus
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:08 am

I really don't understand why EI doesn't go the whole hog and get a couple of A340's too. They have plans to expand their long hauls and so a mix of A330 and A340's would seem like a good idea.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
EI101
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:10 am

Btriple7,
Don't get me wrong, I think its possible that a 350/787 order will be made in the next year, and really, Id be delighted if it was! That order would be a sign that there is enough stability at the airline that it thinks its able to afford this ambitious expansion, and that stability is something Id be very happy to see.
However, I think this (small) interim 330 order indicates that funding is the problem, and that the airline doesn't feel its financial position is strong enough to commit to a bigger order without outside (i.e. private) investment. Privatisation becomes a political issue, and so there'll probably still be an awful lot of "jaw-jaw" before any funding appears.
Again, it'd be great if this was just a tactical decision to try and get a good deal on 350s or 787s from A or B, but Im not convinced that's what it is.
 
smokeyrosco
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:13 am

Quoting Babybus (Reply 29):
I really don't understand why EI doesn't go the whole hog and get a couple of A340's too. They have plans to expand their long hauls and so a mix of A330 and A340's would seem like a good idea.

Simply put they are too big for DUB even with the new planned runway taken into account.

EDIT: Is there any other link to this story?

[Edited 2006-01-23 00:16:49]
John Hancock
 
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legacyins
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:13 am

Quoting Babybus (Reply 29):
I really don't understand why EI doesn't go the whole hog and get a couple of A340's too

As stated above, Dublin's runways cannot handel the A340.
 
KL808
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:20 am

With A340's they can also operate to South Africa and maybe even Asia.

But my hunch is that the 4 extra aircrafts might be split in two. 2 -200's and 2 -300X's.

Drew
AMS-LAX-MNL
 
Elagabal
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:22 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 6):
The airline will be benefiting from the change's to Ireland's bilateral with the US (part of the overall EU/US package) and this will result in two major changes from November:
- EI will be able to add three new cities in the US, and
- The ratio of flights between DUB:SNN will be increased from the current 1:1 to 3:1 in Dublin's favour.

Dear God, I thought it'd never happen. To say nothing of my crowing, three cheers for the EU!  boggled   blush  See below for further light reading - Kaitak, you probably had a peep at the same file.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 6):
I thought it might be possible for them to get A340s, like AY are doing, but they have problems with DUB's runway.

Does anyone know when they're actually going to do something about that damn runway? Short of shutting it down and flying off the pier at Dun Laoghaire.

PS - For anyone interested, especially in a few very interesting suggestions for SNN in coping with the change:

http://www.ihf.ie/reports/publicpolicy/0503AirTransport.pdf

The link was good around New Year's, at least.
 
planemanofnz
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:26 am

Great news for Aer Lingus. I can't wait to see them finally launch new routes into Asia (not middle east.) I am hoping for either Singapore or Hong-Kong. Would the A330 be able to make it this far?

I wonder when we will find out about the new in-flight product? Lie flat beds in business? AVOD in economy? Possibly a premium economy?

I think Aer Lingus should definately choose the 332 over the 333 simply for it's range to places like Asia.

Will the new aircraft be fitted with crew rests? Wasn't this one of the reasons that EI had to launch DXB ahead of CPT because of disputes with crew over crew rests?
 
ChiGB1973
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:27 am

I think, oh, maybe 10% ($40 million) should be used to increase employee moral and better service. The worst flight I ever participated was on EI, SNN-DUB-ORD.

I dreaded flying with them.

With the competition on the route, AA, CO, US, DL, seems service would be at a premium or at least the flight crew could smile on occasion.

On the other hand, fly DL on that route. SNN-ATL is a long flight, but their service in incomparable. Thanks DL. I hope you get more market share!

M
 
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Btriple7
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:31 am

Quoting EI101 (Reply 30):
However, I think this (small) interim 330 order indicates that funding is the problem, and that the airline doesn't feel its financial position is strong enough to commit to a bigger order without outside (i.e. private) investment.

That might be true, but let's remember it is only January of 2006. If politics doesn't stand in the way, EI should (hopefully) be privatized by the end of the year (maybe a little later). Thus by the end of this year, EI should know whether they will have the money to place an order for the A350 (or whatever they order). EI won't have to put that much money down when they place the order. They'd put just enough money to get them a spot in the production line.

Quoting EI101 (Reply 30):
Again, it'd be great if this was just a tactical decision to try and get a good deal on 350s or 787s from A or B, but Im not convinced that's what it is.

That would be a very clever (and risky) manuver by Dermot Mannion. Not one I think he should really try.

Regards,
Btriple7
Just...fly.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:36 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 23):
GE powered Airbus aircraft are first choice to him for longhaul. That was attributed to him when he was shadowing Rod Eddington at BA.

more like GE-powered Boeing...especially given that the 777-300ER and 747-8I are exclusively GE-powered aircraft....not to mention, Eddington has already stated that he liked the 777-300ER.....oh yah, and there's only the fact BA's massive Boeing-based fleet, including Boeing-based widebody 777's....

but regarding EI, congrats to them  thumbsup ...but this was a bit easy choice....almost as easy as JL or CO picking Boeing....
"Up the Irons!"
 
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Btriple7
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:42 am

Quoting Elagabal (Reply 34):
PS - For anyone interested, especially in a few very interesting suggestions for SNN in coping with the change:

http://www.ihf.ie/reports/publicpolicy/0503AirTransport.pdf

The link was good around New Year's, at least.

Thanks for the link!!!

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 35):
I wonder when we will find out about the new in-flight product? Lie flat beds in business? AVOD in economy? Possibly a premium economy?

That's rather optimistic for this order. Maybe later on this could happen. Oh, it would like heaven if EI had AVOD.  cloudnine 

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 36):
I think, oh, maybe 10% ($40 million) should be used to increase employee moral and better service. The worst flight I ever participated was on EI, SNN-DUB-ORD.

I think the fact that EI is back on track in and of itself will help boost the moral of employees. I must admit EI's flight attendants aren't the most charming. Of course the last time I flew EI longhaul was back in the summer of '04. I don't think anyone at EI was very happy then.

Regards,
Btriple7
Just...fly.
 
EI101
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:12 am

Premium economy? AVODs? This from the airline who brought (and still brings you) the worst cup of coffee in Europe, my, times they are a-changing. Seriously tho, nearly every thread here in the last six months on the Aer Lingus long-haul expansion issue has had submissions about how poor EIs premium offering, and even their economy offering, is.
Given the nature of the cheap-and-cheerful short-haul competition around in Ireland (Ryanair, etc) and the relative lack of long-haul competition, I'm not surprised, but really, action is needed, even if it is the rather basic steps of improving customer service and IFE. Then again, a lot of Irish people have serious brand loyalty to EI if they are rich enough to be looking at premium services.
 
aerokiwi
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:18 pm

Was there any indication by EI that they are interested specifically in the A350 over the 787? If there is please post a link becasue I haven't heard anything.

Surely if they were that keen then an MOU or LOI would at least secure some slots. But apparently not.
 
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Btriple7
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:35 pm

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 41):
Was there any indication by EI that they are interested specifically in the A350 over the 787? If there is please post a link becasue I haven't heard anything.

That's the debate right now.

I think it can be assumed that EI is more interested in the A350. Since EI has just ordered four A330s, it would lead one to think Airbus and EI are...uh...on the same page (for lack of better words). EI is obviously still a loyal Airbus customer. Otherwise, they might have choosen Boeing for next aircraft order.

However, you and several other posters above have made a very good point. EI did not directly state that they were leaning towards the A350. The A330 order might just be a tactical manuver. Or on the other hand, the order was placed just because EI needed planes immediatly, and the A330 was far better than then the other option, the 767.

I think EI is far more interested in the A350, though. I think the A330 order is EI's interim solution while waiting for the A350. However, I could be wrong.

Regards,
Btriple7
Just...fly.
 
aerlinguscargo
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:45 pm

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 24):

In any case, I think it's a good move by EI. The A330 (the -200 especially) is an excellent aircraft for them and I think is unfrotunately being prematurely undermined by the A350.

Why do you think the 200 is better than the 300, from a cargo and passenger standpoint the 300 is stronger. The 200's only advantage over the 300 is range. and currently EI isn't utilizing the extra range on most flights (at JFK we will see 200's on two flights most days).

I think that the new 330's will be 300's to free up existing 200's for the longer hauls.
 
planemanofnz
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 2:02 pm

Quoting Aerlinguscargo (Reply 43):
I think that the new 330's will be 300's to free up existing 200's for the longer hauls.

I disagree. EI do not need heaps of seats on all of it's services - only to JFK and sometimes BOS. The added range of the 332 will allow not only extra services to america like SFO to be launched but also other long-haul routes like CPT, SIN and HKG.

These new aircraft will most likely be 332's because they will have to be fitted with crew rests as CPT has already been delayed in launch due to the disputes between the airline and it's crew over resting facilities on-board long-haul aircraft (A330-200 - not A330-300 due to range.) Therefore if EI do not place Crew rests on these new aircrafts we can almost guarantee no new long-haul routes to places in Asia and Africa.

Quoting Aerlinguscargo (Reply 43):
The 200's only advantage over the 300 is range. and currently EI isn't utilizing the extra range on most flights

And who is to say that they won't be in the near future? I thought that the whole point of this order was to increase the long-haul fleet. The 333 can hardly make it to South Afirca and Asia or even the west coast of the U.S.A.
 
aerlinguscargo
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 2:50 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 44):

I disagree. EI do not need heaps of seats on all of it's services - only to JFK and sometimes BOS. The added range of the 332 will allow not only extra services to america like SFO to be launched but also other long-haul routes like CPT, SIN and HKG.

The equipment on two of the daily JFK flights is currently 200 series. The range is not needed on the JFK flights and by using the 200 EI looses cargo and PAX capacity on these two flights. by buying 300's EI would be able to free up its current 200 fleet for the routes where they are needed.
 
planemanofnz
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:06 pm

Quoting Aerlinguscargo (Reply 45):
The equipment on two of the daily JFK flights is currently 200 series

If EI is currently using the 200 series on the route it probably will only be because MCO has been dropped, DXB doesn't launch untill march and LAX is the only destination that requires the 332 and it isn't even daily. I wouldn't say JFK will be getting the 332 for long - this will only be temporary while neither MCO or DXB are being operated.

Quoting Aerlinguscargo (Reply 45):
The range is not needed on the JFK flights and by using the 200 EI looses cargo and PAX capacity on these two flights

Had you ever considered that maybe EI might not be getting alot of PAX on the JFK-DUB run and that may be the reason why they are using the 332 on the route currently, whilst they have spare 332's?

Quoting Aerlinguscargo (Reply 45):
by buying 300's EI would be able to free up its current 200 fleet for the routes where they are needed.

The only current route that 'needs' the 332 is LAX. It only requires one out of the 3 A332's. EI already has enough 333's at the moment. It needs more 332's so that ;
1 will fly to LAX
1 will fly to SFO
1 will fly to DXB (for a competitive product against GF/EK)
1 will fly to Asia
1 will fly to Africa (probably CPT)
1 will fly to ORD
EI needs plane for long-haul expansion - not extra capacity. EI wants to introduce new long-haul routes which would require the range that the 333 doesn't have - therefore the 332 is a better option.
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:23 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 46):
Had you ever considered that maybe EI might not be getting alot of PAX on the JFK-DUB run and that may be the reason why they are using the 332 on the route currently, whilst they have spare 332's?

Aer Lingus flights have been very full recently on this route and I doubt that Aer Lingus would fly the A33-200 to JFK anytime soon.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 6):
As I mentioned, it's not clear what models the new planes will be; they could well be -300Xs, which would have sufficient range to reach SFO from DUB. We'll see quite shortly, I'm sure.

As Kaitak said above, why cant the aircraft be -300Xs. Dont they have a good range?
Aer Lingus will have to use EI-DAA on the DXB route all the other aircraft have no PTVs and that would be a very long flight without anything to do.
 
whitehatter
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:36 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 38):
more like GE-powered Boeing...especially given that the 777-300ER and 747-8I are exclusively GE-powered aircraft....not to mention, Eddington has already stated that he liked the 777-300ER.....oh yah, and there's only the fact BA's massive Boeing-based fleet, including Boeing-based widebody 777's....

One: Willie Walsh made the statements. Cheerleading can't rewrite what he said.

Two: Rod Eddington can like Tupolevs for all the difference it makes. He's gone.

Three: BA will buy what they want, brand loyalty is a cheerleader fantasy. The longhaul BA fleet is not Boeing's lock-in.

So oh yah, you are talking crap.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
Elagabal
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RE: Aer Lingus Set To Order More A330s

Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:06 pm

Quoting EI101 (Reply 40):
This from the airline who brought (and still brings you) the worst cup of coffee in Europe

LOL - but figure in proportion with the culture: ever tried AY? Service with a smile, but for a nation of famous coffee drinkers, ye gods what dreadful bilge. On that score, AF don't do brilliantly either if you're not up front.

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 44):
I disagree. EI do not need heaps of seats on all of it's services - only to JFK and sometimes BOS.

Couldn't agree with you more. I appreciate nostalgia for the 747 but really, EI just don't have the sheer population base to make huge-ass jets worthwhile, especially on potential long, thin routes like JNB / CPT.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 48):
Rod Eddington can like Tupolevs for all the difference it makes. He's gone.

 rotfl 

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