FlyPNS1
Topic Author
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DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:22 am

http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/060123/92704.html

I can't say I ever saw these routes coming. Looks like DL really wants to focus more on business traffic. At least they were smart enough not to use CRJ's for these routes.

I wonder where all the slots are coming from? Cancelling other routes?
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:28 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Thread starter):
I wonder where all the slots are coming from? Cancelling other routes?

Don't quote me on any exact routes, but DL has reduced frequencies in a few markets, like CVG, or dropped some like MHT. Also, MAy 1st is still a few months away, so there could still be some upcomming reductions.
Although, with a total of 8 daily roundtrips, DL might have actually gotten some additional slots. Regardless, this is great news, especially given the choice of E70s, instead of the planes one would normally expect from DL on such routes, namely CRJs (ORD) and CR7s (DFW).
 
deltairlines
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:29 am

Don't know if this is showing up in other browsers, but I keep seeing  throughout the PR...

Quoting Press Release:

NEW YORK, Jan. 23, 2006 (PRIMEZONE) -- Delta Air Lines' customers in New York will be able to fly non-stop between the cityÂÂ's preferred airport at LaGuardia and more of the cityÂÂ's top business destinations with the addition of new daily flights to Chicago-OÂÂ'Hare and Dallas/Fort Worth this spring. Beginning April 3, Delta will introduce five daily flights between LaGuardia and Chicago-OÂÂ'Hare International Airport, and two daily flights between LaGuardia and Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport, with a third Dallas flight beginning May 1.

Just found that to be a little ironic, given that the principle competition on these routes will be AA.

Jeff
 
LawnDart
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:29 am

Anyone else getting this "error" when you link to the Yahoo story:

Delta Air Lines' customers in New York will be able to fly non-stop between the cityÂÂ's preferred airport at LaGuardia and more of the cityÂÂ's top business destinations with the addition of new daily flights to Chicago-OÂÂ'Hare and Dallas/Fort Worth this spring. Beginning April 3, Delta will introduce five daily flights between LaGuardia and Chicago-OÂÂ'Hare International

"Error" or intentional...hmm...
 
LawnDart
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:31 am

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 2):
Don't know if this is showing up in other browsers, but I keep seeing  throughout the PR...

Okay, so it's not just me...
 
MAH4546
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:32 am

Interesting. They announced MIA last month and now DFW and ORD...
a.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:33 am

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 3):
Anyone else getting this "error" when you link to the Yahoo story:



Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 2):
Don't know if this is showing up in other browsers, but I keep seeing  throughout the PR...

Probably subliminal messages planted by the AA people at Primezone  Silly .
 
Tango-Bravo
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:05 am

Looks like what goes around comes around. It's obviously the U.S. legacy mentality in action, wherein decisions concerning new domestic service are motivated first and foremost by retaliation for a 'wrong' committed by an airline who has trangressed "the law of the legacies" which is "thou shalt not start service between our hub and any city other than one of your hubs."

Does anyone imagine for a nanosecond that DL would have even considered LGA-ORD/DFW/MIA non-stops if AA had not violated "the law of the legacies" by starting LGA-ATL? And to add further to the seriousness of their "transgression," AA even put mainline MD-80 equipment on LGA-ATL-LGA.
 
mrstl
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:20 am

It would be really interesting if Delta, after emerging from bankruptcy with much lower costs, would start to slowly build a hub in DFW and compete against an AA with higher costs. The next two years should be fun to watch from a retaliation standpoint among the legacies.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:31 am

Everyone should have seen this coming.

To put it in laymens terms, AA has pissed off the fat lady from the south. She's now screaming and gathering her troups for war. AA should have expected this given they went into Atlanta...

Not sure how successful these will be, altho DL does have a very high concentration of business travellers in the NYC region. I for one will be flying DL for my business trips to the Chicago area given I now have a non-stop option (then again, I went through CVG before as I'm a loyal guy)..

Hope it works out.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
MAH4546
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:36 am

I wonder if/how AA will retaliate for this.
a.
 
rwsea
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:42 am

I would actually have expected to see a DFW-JFK first in order to connect to DL's bank of flights to Europe, but these flights appear to be targeted solely towards domestic business travel on these two important O&D markets.

Good luck to DL on these routes - it's going to be interesting to see what happens. Obviously they are much more dominant in NYC than in the other two markets, although there still may be some DL loyal fliers in DFW that will pick DL over AA.

This is really going to piss off AA, but too bad for them. Their service sucks, the M80's are getting old and they have the worst FA's in the US, in my opinion. That airline really needs to learn how to treat its customers. DL flying new planes with smiling faces might actually have a chance.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:50 am

DL and AA have sparred for years... this is more about DL rounding out its list of NYC destinations as it is retaliation for AA's foray into ATLLGA. Remember, DL is now on the verge of being the 2nd largest US airline to Latin America and is moving quickly to close the NYC gaps it had w/ AA... Yes, AA has moved into traditional DL markets but DL has done the same thing. Strong competition is good for everyone..... these routes will do just fine for DL.

Notice also that the ORD flights will operate from the Marine Air Terminal - a more exclusive terminal to what AA or UA passengers face - complete with a higher level of amenities in the terminal

[Edited 2006-01-23 20:18:20]
 
commavia
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:37 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 11):
Obviously they are much more dominant in NYC than in the other two markets, although there still may be some DL loyal fliers in DFW that will pick DL over AA.

Delta still has loyal FFs in the DFW area, but the number has dramatically dwindled in recent years, with the continual drawn-down in service to virtually nothing, the shift to RJs, etc. Most DFW-area FFs I know have all but given up and shifted flying to AA or Southwest, as most have gotten sick of connecting in ATL, CVG or SLC to fly just about anywhere.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 11):
This is really going to piss off AA, but too bad for them. Their service sucks, the M80's are getting old and they have the worst FA's in the US, in my opinion.

A mere annoyance, but piss AA off? Hardly. Delta will be flying three daily flights with 70-seat jets DFW-LGA, up against AA's 14 daily MD80/737 flights, and will have 5 daily flights with 70-seat jets ORD-LGA, up against AA's 19 daily MD80s. I don't think AA is too worried.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):
Remember, DL is now on the verge of being the 2nd largest US airline to Latin America

Delta today is about one quarter of the size of AA in Latin America. Again, I don't think AA is too worried.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):
Notice also that the ORD flights will operate from the Marine Air Terminal - a more exclusive terminal to what AA or UA passengers face - complete with a higher level of amenities in the terminal

I think the fact that AA will be offering nearly quadruple the number of flights as Delta, on much larger airplanes, with flights departing every hour and sometimes more than once per hour, should more than make up for any exclusivity business customers might feel by flying Delta LGA-ORD.
 
Coronado990
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:50 am

I'm guessing this is a shot across JetBlue's bow as I think ORD and DFW will be two of the next ten B6 airports this year. Plus B6 may return to ATL but this time from JFK, BOS and IAD.

[Edited 2006-01-23 20:51:45]
Uncle SAN at your service!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:10 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 13):
I think the fact that AA will be offering nearly quadruple the number of flights as Delta, on much larger airplanes, with flights departing every hour and sometimes more than once per hour, should more than make up for any exclusivity business customers might feel by flying Delta LGA-ORD.

UA offers similar advantages. I've always been under the impression that UA captures more of the high-yield ORD originating traffic than does AA, and the LGA route is no exception-- especially as UA offers Business1 on this route. DL is contending with a lot of frequency, fliers loyal to AA and UA, and superior service on UA (E+, meals in first, newspapers in the morning), DL is going to have a hard time at ORD.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
commavia
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:17 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 15):
UA offers similar advantages.

No doubt about it, yes they do.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 15):
I've always been under the impression that UA captures more of the high-yield ORD originating traffic than does AA, and the LGA route is no exception

I would disagree with you. While on most routes out of ORD, UA does maintain a relative market share/yield premium over AA, LGA is, from my perspective, the one exception. The reason? AA's relative market strength. UA is stronger than AA at ORD, but not by much, as AA is a very strong and viable competitor with a huge marketing and business presence in the Chicagoland area. However, in the New York metro area, UA's presence is non-existent compared with AA, which is the second-largest airline in the New York metro area. AA has more flights, more seats, and more premium seats from ORD to LGA than UA.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:21 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 16):
While on most routes out of ORD, UA does maintain a relative market share/yield premium over AA, LGA is, from my perspective, the one exception. The reason? AA's relative market strength. UA is stronger than AA at ORD, but not by much, as AA is a very strong and viable competitor with a huge marketing and business presence in the Chicagoland area. However, in the New York metro area, UA's presence is non-existent compared with AA, which is the second-largest airline in the New York metro area. AA has more flights, more seats, and more premium seats from ORD to LGA than UA.

I guess I was thinking in terms of ORD-originating traffic. Looking at NYC at the same time (as I should have done), I would agree with you.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Tornado82
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:23 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 13):
ORD-LGA, up against AA's 19 daily MD80s. I don't think AA is too worried.

And we wonder why ORD/LGA are so overcrowded. At airports where schedules are mere suggestions that are never adhered to anyways, there's no call for 19x anything, unless they were widebodies because of that much pax demand like some of the intra-Asia shuttle services.

How about maybe 12x 738 instead of 19x MD80... because that 19x frequency doesn't mean jack crap when LGA is on a 2 hr ground stop botching up the schedules anyways, or *gasp* like DL to ATL has been, some widebodies.
 
commavia
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:29 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 18):
At airports where schedules are mere suggestions that are never adhered to anyways, there's no call for 19x anything

"No call" except the call of consumer demand. When business travelers (who constitute a higher proportion of the traffic on a route like ORD-LGA than on the average domestic U.S. route today) demand frequency, and the flexibility to show up for an earlier flight if their meeting ends early, or go home a bit later if their meeting runs long, then frequency is what airlines give them.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:30 am

Don't be fooled, this is a direct shot at AA.

"against AA's 14 daily MD80/737 flights, and will have 5 daily flights with 70-seat jets ORD-LGA, up against AA's 19 daily MD80s. I don't think AA is too worried."

Your damn right they're worried. DL has a VERY loyal following in NYC. 5 flights a day on mainline (not regional) jets, with regional airline costs, and less seats to fill then AA means that DL has an easier time making money on this route then AA.

DFW is just a token presence to annoy AA. But don't discount DLs effect on the LGA route. This is MAJOR.

PJ
 
Xkorpyoh
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:55 am

i remember back in the days where AA had almost no presence at MIA and they dared to launch flights NYC-MIA with about 3 flights a day or so.
Back then that was PA and EA territory (and air florida?). And look at AA now wiht the LGA-MIA monopoly and all those frequencies to all NYC airports.

DL starts with a few flights with a lower risk E70 and if it works, i am sure they will increase frequency to all 3 airports (DFW,ORD,MIA)
 
Tornado82
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:21 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 19):
demand frequency, and the flexibility to show up for an earlier flight if their meeting ends early, or go home a bit later if their meeting runs long, then frequency is what airlines give them.

And again I reiterate... the flight schedules are often destroyed by ATC/WX anyways. If you promise a guy a 4pm flight and he doesn't take off till 5:40, meanwhile the 3pm flight took off at 4:45 and the 2pm flight took off at 3:55... what good did all that frequency do?

Anyone have the on-time ratings of those 19 flights? I'd be willing to bet that by 5pm it's sub-50%. That's not doing the biz pax a service.
 
Jamake1
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:23 am

That's it Delta...Continue dumping capacity into N. American markets as has been your pattern since entering Chapter 11. My sense is that Delta has no real strategy on where to put its assets to stem its losses in N. America. They've dumped Song capacity onto AA/UA strongholds in the Boston-LAX/SFO markets and JFK-LAX/SFO markets and now LGA-ORD. I hope they get clobbered!
United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
 
worldtraveler
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:35 am

DL is not out to overtake AA or UA in the NYC-CHI or -DFW markets or to Latin America for that matter; it simply wants to be able to have a presence to its NYC customers who need to travel to those destinations. It's a good move and a good use of resources and has a good potential to make money - probably better than AA and UA since DL will be using contract carriers with much cheaper aircraft to operate. And yes, if DL is successful, it very well could regauge these and other NYC flights to mainline. And yes, this is undoubtedly somewhat B6 defensive; notice that DL added SAT and AUS from JFK using the E170 just months before B6 did it w/ the E190. DL obviously acquired the E170s specifically to be able to develop long and thin routes and those that compete against other legacies.

Jamake,
So what do you call AA's addition of flights from Love Field to Missouri or from LGA to ATL? By your definition I'd call it dumping capacity, esp. since a number of those flights use RJs.... the same "ATC clogging RJs" that duplicate the US and DL Shuttles in and out of LGA. Like or not, there are no "territories" owned by any one airline and every other airline is free to expand where it sees the potential to make money.
 
panamair
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:51 am

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 23):
That's it Delta...Continue dumping capacity into N. American markets as has been your pattern since entering Chapter 11. My sense is that Delta has no real strategy on where to put its assets to stem its losses in N. America.

What have you been smoking? Dumping capacity? Do you realize that domestic capacity has been decreasing every month since they entered Ch.11? Domestic capacity was down 2.9% in Oct 05; down 3% in Nov 05, and down 8.6% in Dec!

No strategy?? The STRATEGY is to do more point-to-point flying to business markets so as to push up their per unit revenue amongst other things. DL's unit revenues have been below AA and CO's because they carry too many cheap connecting passengers to Disney World.

Also, where were you when AA started LGA-ATL, LGA-BOS, etc. and started "dumping" capacity in those markets?
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:55 am

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 23):
That's it Delta...Continue dumping capacity into N. American markets as has been your pattern since entering Chapter 11.

Dumping capacity into domestic markets? Where have you been in the last months?!? Delta is reducing domestic capacity by 30 percent. They are connecting the dots in the domestic market, without actually increasing capacity, and they have every right to do so.

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 23):
hey've dumped Song capacity onto AA/UA strongholds in the Boston-LAX/SFO

You mean those markets where UA and AA have continuesly reduced frequencies?

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 23):
and JFK-LAX/SFO

So DL went from 5 flights to 7 to LAX, and from 3 to 5 SFO. Wow, big deal, get over it.

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 23):
I hope they get clobbered!

Displaying a healthy attitude there. In that case, let me wish AA good luck against Southwest in DAL, because AA sure is gonna need it.
 
Jamake1
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:32 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 26):
Dumping capacity into domestic markets? Where have you been in the last months?!? Delta is reducing domestic capacity by 30 percent. They are connecting the dots in the domestic market, without actually increasing capacity, and they have every right to do so.

Let me rephrase it for you: DUMPING capacity in already SATURATED markets.
JFK-westcoast...Saturated. BOS-westcoast...Saturated. CHI-NYC...Saturated.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 26):
You mean those markets where UA and AA have continuesly reduced frequencies?

Not quite. UA has reduced capacity by shifting its p.s. service from 767's to 757's. The frequencies have remained the same. Ditto for BOS with some 757's being shifted to A-320's.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 26):
and they have every right to do so.

Of course they do...and I hope they get clobbered, doing so.
United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
 
Alitalia744
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:36 am

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 27):
Let me rephrase it for you: DUMPING capacity in already SATURATED markets.
JFK-westcoast...Saturated. BOS-westcoast...Saturated. CHI-NYC...Saturated.

And AA dumping flights into LGA-BOS and LGA-ATL isn't dumping capacity into already saturated markets? Come on already....
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:43 am

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 27):
Let me rephrase it for you: DUMPING capacity in already SATURATED markets.
JFK-westcoast...Saturated. BOS-westcoast...Saturated. CHI-NYC...Saturated.

Again, with that logic, what is AA's business in starting LGA-ATL? What is AA's business in starting their 'own' Shuttle on LGA-BOS/DCA? All those markets have been saturated for years. And what would be AA's business to actually add frequencies in a market like ORD-LGA, that they have already saturated themselves.

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 27):
Of course they do...and I hope they get clobbered, doing so.

Again, brilliant attitude. Surprising how you manage to survive in today's world with an attitude like that.
 
DeltaMIA
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:58 am

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 27):
Let me rephrase it for you: DUMPING capacity in already SATURATED markets.
JFK-westcoast...Saturated. BOS-westcoast...Saturated. CHI-NYC...Saturated.

There is no saturation when you carry more passengers than any other airline, have more FF's than any other airline and have more medallion/elite within that frequent flier program than any other airline. The market maybe saturated now for TZ or B6, but not for DL. Add in CO and NW elites plus the type of equipment flown and I can't imagine how this won't be successful.

DL isn't after the New Yorker that wants to visit the Windy City for the weekend. They are after the last minute business flier whose fare makes the flight a success with him and 30 of his buddies.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:03 am

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 30):
DL isn't after the New Yorker that wants to visit the Windy City for the weekend. They are after the last minute business flier whose fare makes the flight a success with him and 30 of his buddies.

...and he is exactly the flier, at least in Chicago, in the back pocket of AA and UA.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:01 am

Great news, DL is slowly coming back to DFW.
 
Jamake1
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:08 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 29):
Again, brilliant attitude. Surprising how you manage to survive in today's world with an attitude like that.

There is nothing wrong with my attitude. I find Delta's recent actions to be irresponsible in light of the fact that there is over-capacity in the markets that Delta has chosen to re-deploy its assets into. This is a public forum. I am merely stating my opinion, which I am entitled to do, in a public forum. Just because you do not agree with opinion, doesn't mean I have a bad attitude. I don't think that Delta's management have made well-thought business decisions. Their premium class product has become inferior to the likes of CO and UA. Plastics in First/Business class isn't the path to go down to attract the saavy and discerning high-yield business traveller. You can defend Delta all you want. I find their recent actions of going into highly saturated business markets, irresponsible, and perpetuates the problem of over-capacity in many N. American markets. Enough said.

Enjoy your plastic glass of wine....
United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
 
Delta4eva
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:11 am

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 27):
Let me rephrase it for you: DUMPING capacity in already SATURATED markets.
JFK-westcoast...Saturated. BOS-westcoast...Saturated. CHI-NYC...Saturated.

And not unlike what B6 has been doing since they began business....NE-Florida markets....and not unlike what SW has been doing for years....it's called competition....if you want to get mad at airlines dumping capacity, then look at the LCCs who are getting dozens of new planes every year. But that's competition and no airline owns a market.
FLY DELTA JETS
 
Alitalia744
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:12 am

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 33):
There is nothing wrong with my attitude. I find Delta's recent actions to be irresponsible in light of the fact that there is over-capacity in the markets that Delta has chosen to re-deploy its assets into.

So did you find AA's actions irresponsible when they launched LGA-ATL?

Just trying to understand how exactly that glass house of yours is made...
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
FlyPNS1
Topic Author
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:36 am

Quoting Delta4eva (Reply 34):
And not unlike what B6 has been doing since they began business....NE-Florida markets....and not unlike what SW has been doing for years....it's called competition....

The difference is that the LCC's have usually made money as they have grown. It's not capacity dumping if you are making money on the route.

I'm not saying that DL is dumping capacity on these routes. If they can make money flying LGA-ORD and LGA-DFW, then by all means they should fly the route. However, if they are just throwing planes around and hoping (or praying) that something sticks, then it's probably a waste of resources. Given the relatively small number of E170's that DL has at its disposal, I would think they would be using the planes on routes that have potential.

This is unlike the situation with the 50 seat RJ that DL has too many of and is desperately trying to find places to cram them.
 
ckfred
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:37 am

What people forget is that AA ran DL off the ORD-DFW route. Years ago, DL used to have 6 or 7 round trips, while AA had 12 or so. Then, AA cranked up its frequency to 23 round trips.

DL kept dropping flights until it no longer flew ORD-DFW in the mid 90s. It did revive ORD-DFW, flying CRJs, but that only lasted 1 or 2 years.

I could see AA replacing some MD-80s with 757s, just to add capacity.
 
PIA777
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RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:56 am

DL use to fly widebodies into ORD, whatever happend to that? I have seen
767s there. They also use to fly the 757.

PIA777
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OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:00 am

Wow, seems like the only thing getting clobbered is Jamake1. He can't argue AA's attempt at ATL-LGA, so he fends back with plastic wine glasses in first class.

Wow.  stirthepot 



OttoPylit
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:02 am

Problem is that B6 is expected to post a loss for the 4th quarter and then some. So, has all of that capacity they are "dumping" irresponsible. I surely say it is.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 3619
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:24 am

Delta's re-entry into the LGA-DFW market, and adding a smattering of ORD routes is exactly a good example for why this airline is in Chapter 11 and why the industry as a whole can't get itself off the ground.

This has nothing to do with offering the most choices to its customer base and everything to do with foolishly trying to compete with AA and UA in the ORD market, same way that AA tries to compete with DL on the ATL route, etc etc...

Delta probably won't make a dent in either market.

If you want to be a player in this market, you offer hourly or at least 8-10 flights a day.

DL should find a merger partner.
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:57 am

So why does AA offer less than six flights from ATL-LGA against DL's hourlies?

I guess your theory just got shot to you know where, Continental EWR. And why in the you know what would they fly RJs up against DL and US Shuttle's mainline aircraft with far better space and amenities?

DL has just as much of a right to start service in any market as AA or CO does. Guess CO is smarting a bit from the increase in competition at all three NYC airports by multiple carriers. And their hypocritical CEO is blasting DL for using bankruptcy for cutting costs while "forgetting" that CO did it twice.
 
Delta4eva
Posts: 242
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:20 am

RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:59 am

Quoting ContinentalEWR (Reply 41):
This has nothing to do with offering the most choices to its customer base and everything to do with foolishly trying to compete with AA and UA in the ORD market, same way that AA tries to compete with DL on the ATL route, etc etc

How does this have nothing to do w/ DL offering more choices to its customer base? DL has made it clear that they are increasing their presence in NY the past couple of months. This is allowing DL to offer it's LARGE amount of Frequent fliers and business travelers direct business routes. How could any airline call itself a major player in the NYC market, without routes to some of the most important cities in the nation?

DL's goal is to gain more loyal customers in NY and this will definitly please them and take one advantage away from AA.

There's enough room for DL, AA, and UA
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Alitalia744
Posts: 3777
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:07 am

Quoting ContinentalEWR (Reply 41):
This has nothing to do with offering the most choices to its customer base and everything to do with foolishly trying to compete with AA and UA in the ORD market, same way that AA tries to compete with DL on the ATL route, etc etc...

ContinentalEWR - it has a lot to do with DL and it's customer base in NYC. It also has a lot to do with increasing DL's presence in the NYC market (the largest market in the country).

The LGA-DFW/ORD flights in addition to the recently announced international expansion are just the beginning of Delta's redevelopment and focus on NYC.

Look to more announcements regarding Delta's position on developing and strengthening its presence in the NYC market. All should be clear in the next few months.

Additionally, look for more service announcements elsewhere (ATL/SLC) in the near future as well as Delta's continued committment to providing customers with the a more pleasant travel experience.

There's a lot of work to be done and the road is uphill, but time will tell.

 Smile
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
incitatus
Posts: 2691
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 12:49 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
I wonder if/how AA will retaliate for this.

Make ATL-LGA hourly service...? Big grin

Quoting Delta4eva (Reply 43):
This is allowing DL to offer it's LARGE amount of Frequent fliers and business travelers direct business routes. How could any airline call itself a major player in the NYC market, without routes to some of the most important cities in the nation?

You answerd your own question. DL is not a major player in the NYC market. Big players in the NY market are Continental, Jet Blue and American.

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 23):
My sense is that Delta has no real strategy on where to put its assets to stem its losses in N. America.

I agree with that one. Delta has no real strategy. It created Song, then folded it. It added lots of transcontinental flights, then reduced them. It's going to add a bunch of flights to Europe that will not survive a single Winter. There seems to be no method. It's trial and error... Or error after error? They still have too many planes and don't know what to do with them.
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Delta4eva
Posts: 242
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:20 am

RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 12:56 pm

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 45):
Big players in the NY market are Continental, Jet Blue and American.

Hate to break it to you....but DL is a huge player in the NYC market....they have about the same, if not more market share than AA, and I'd definitly expect DL to surpass them when the announce even more expansion from NYC. So looks like I didn't answer my own question.....DL is a major player in the NYC market.
FLY DELTA JETS
 
ckfred
Posts: 4694
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 12:59 pm

Quoting PIA777 (Reply 38):
DL use to fly widebodies into ORD, whatever happend to that? I have seen
767s there. They also use to fly the 757

DL pretty much dropped widebody service into ORD after September 11th. Although my in-laws flew into ORD from ATL a few months ago on a 767-300. DL cancelled the flight ahead of theirs, then pulled the MD-88 for a 767.

The 757s are still used on some ORD-ATL flights at peak times. I just drove my wife to the airport last week and saw a 757 sitting at Concourse L.
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2613
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:06 pm

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 45):
You answerd your own question. DL is not a major player in the NYC market. Big players in the NY market are Continental, Jet Blue and American.

Oh get real! What a ridiculous post. Yes, B6 is a major player with service to huge business centers like LGB, PBI, and SLC.  Yeah sure B6 doesn't even offer service to LAX, DCA, MIA, or ORD, yet they're more of a major player in NYC than DL, think again! I'd say that NYC's major players are CO, AA, and DL; with US having a substantial market share as well. You have no idea what you're talking about, however.

Jeremy
 
PIA777
Posts: 1841
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:39 am

RE: DL To Fly LGA-ORD And LGA-DFW With E170

Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:22 pm

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 47):
The 757s are still used on some ORD-ATL flights at peak times. I just drove my wife to the airport last week and saw a 757 sitting at Concourse L.

When I first moved down to ATL from Chicago I flew in on a 757 (11/01) and there was also a 767 parked next to me. I wish they still flew the 767 into ORD.

PIA777
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