AirTran Airways Soars Into White Plains, N.Y.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060123/nym230.html?.v=21

Wow...didnt see that one comming!

They should do very well there, though im supruised seeing how cramped the teminal is.

It can handle 100 seat aircraft a couple times a day.

I may have to try this route this summer, as my Grandfather lives in white plains in the summer.

Wow, after re-reading the article, there will be PBI-Westchester flights.

My grandfather lives in westchester in the summer and palm beach the rest of the year. Who would have thunk he'd ever have a direct flight?

This relates to a now archived thread after FLYI announced they were going under. Back then someone asked about whether B6 would head to Florida from HPN, but clearly FL has stepped up to the plate. We'll see how they do, and the ATL flight is interesting too. A decent business market, I would think.

it will be interesting to see Delta's response, as they have only a token presence in HPN with only 2-3 ATL RJs

WOW - I am surprised.
It'll be interesting to see how a true LCC is received in "upscale" Westchester County....

Well i think FL will do just fine, though the full potential impact will never be realized due to limited terminal facilities and also limited parking facilities, they only have one 3-4 deck parking garage for both short and long term, thats it.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7): .but who would of thunk they would go to PBI?

me, PBI is the HPN of Florida, a lot of well off New Yorkers have second homes in the PBI area.

I've never seen them announce a new city and destinations without frequency, schedule, or start date. Could they be trying to get the jump on some other carrier (cough B6)?

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7): Finally, non-stops between South Florida and HPN...

in the early 90's Carnival flew direct fo Florida from HPN. The times I flew the plane was typically flew, I think this service will be well recieved, people hate having to go down to Laguardia or JFK to go direct fo Florida.

Quoting Richierich (Reply 6): It'll be interesting to see how a true LCC is received in "upscale" Westchester County....

They'll do just fine. I suspect you haven't flown FL. It's not a cattle car, like WN. FL isn't looking for markets that they can flood with $49 seats. They seemed to be focused on markets where they can get people to buy higher yiels tickets. I love that I can fly CAK-LGA for $350 and have a J class seat. It sure beats $1000 for a same day r/t from CLE in coach. Those high yield customers will love that they save money and get better service. No RJ's, no cattle car, no car service to one of the big 3 airports either.

And let's not forget that Air Florida flew to Florida from HPN in the 80s as well.

Quoting Spinkid (Reply 11): The times I flew the plane was typically flew

I would hope so...otherwise you wouldn't have gotten very far!

Quoting Richierich (Reply 6): It'll be interesting to see how a true LCC is received in "upscale" Westchester County....

I don't see the "snob appeal" argument against LCCs, mentioned before with this and other similar airlines. Affluent folk enjoy a bargain as much as anyone, unless they their own jet, have money to burn specifically for first class, or fly enough to have a surplus of frequent flier upgrades. A well-run LCC airline is just as appealing, given the level of service and amenities given on most carriers these days, LCC or not. Even compared against first class upgrades or outright purchase of same, an all-economy airline might still be preferable if the flight is convenient and comfortable.

Or do we think everyone flying out of Burbank, Orange County, Long Island, Savanna, and Providence make less than $40k?

AirTran could be fine out of White Plains!

-Rampart

Nice to see an airline giving the smaller places a chance among the likes of HPN, BMI, and MLI. Perhaps we'll see more of these kind of cities?

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 12): Those high yield customers will love that they save money and get better service. No RJ's, no cattle car, no car service to one of the big 3 airports either.

No disagreements from me, although I know firsthand that long-term parking at HPN is very expensive and not very plentiful. I have not flown AirTran, actually, but would have no problems doing so.

Quoting Rampart (Reply 15): I don't see the "snob appeal" argument against LCCs, mentioned before with this and other similar airlines. Affluent folk enjoy a bargain as much as anyone, unless they their own jet, have money to burn specifically for first class, or fly enough to have a surplus of frequent flier upgrades.

Remember this "LCC" has a business class, more than Delta can say with the CRJ runs through Atlanta. This should be a good pick-up for FL. Pretty hard to loose money on Florida runs too.

Craig
MKE

Quoting Vivavegas (Reply 18): Pretty hard to loose money on Florida runs too.

I hope you're kidding.

Now get ready for ISP!!!


Joe

Quoting Rampart (Reply 15): I don't see the "snob appeal" argument against LCCs, mentioned before with this and other similar airlines. Affluent folk enjoy a bargain as much as anyone, unless they their own jet, have money to burn specifically for first class, or fly enough to have a surplus of frequent flier upgrades.

Many people living in the vicinity of HPN actually do fall into one or more of these categories. Maybe not the one about having their own jets, but certainly many are able to fly First/Business class and have ample FF awards. I can't think of any other airport in the United States that is in such an upscale area.

Quoting PROSA (Reply 21): Many people living in the vicinity of HPN actually do fall into one or more of these categories. Maybe not the one about having their own jets, but certainly many are able to fly First/Business class and have ample FF awards. I can't think of any other airport in the United States that is in such an upscale area.

True, but most of upper middle class Westchester Country still likes a good value and convenient services.....ATL for biz traffic and connections will definitely work out of HPN, and the Florida services will also be well recieved - especially the PBI servce - lots of Westchester and Lower Connecticut residents have second homes in the Palm Beach and Boca Raton areas and would be will to pay a higher fare to avoid the drive out to LGA, JFK or EWR....HPN is so convenient. Its going to be very interesting to see how AirTran prices its new HPN services - while I am certain that the fares will represent good value, I dont think that AirTran has $49 HPN to Florida fares in mind.

Any idea on when the schedules will be announced?

Very interesting move by AirTran, I think that they will do well here.

My sister-in-law lives outside of White Plains. Do you think they will sell any one way only tickets?

The people definitely exist in Westchester/Fairfield to fill a FL plane to Florida. The question is will they yield be high enough given low fares. FL will not be able to charge that much of a premium over LGA, and given the huge competition at LGA, fares will remain low. Given the low fares, can FL make money at HPN even with a high load factor? Hopefully, but we'll see!

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2): It can handle 100 seat aircraft a couple times a day.

There used to be daily flights by USAirways (F100), American Airlines (F100) and United Airlines (735) so I have no doubt that an AirTran 717 will fit right in.

P.S. When will the CAK-HPN flights start?      

[Edited 2006-01-23 23:43:49]

Funny that the first sentence of the press release mentions that FL's 717's are "quiet." 

Good for AirTran, and good for Westchester and Fairfield. As TOLTommy and Vivavegas noted, AirTran offers a slightly upscale LCC product. They'll be able to offer lower fares than existing carriers, but they won't need to be rock bottom.

I'd bet lots of people will like the idea of not sitting in the frapping unpredictable toll line for the Bronx-Whitestone Bridge on the way to LGA. AirTran should do well at HPN.

Jim

Quoting Vivavegas (Reply 18): Pretty hard to loose money on Florida runs too.

I agree, I hope your kidding.


I doubt FL is trying to snag any Westchester Cty folks with these flights. FL is known for flying into an area without directly flying into the city. Instead of competing directly with B6 out of JFK or WN out of ISP, they choose HPN. This way, they avoid congestion at LGA as well as competition, do not compete against B6, WN, CO, DL, or AA directly since they are "choosing" to service HPN. FL is scared of Jetblue, as evidenced by the wetleasing of A320's for the ATL-West Coast flights when B6 started, and since they don't have the cash for PTV's, they chose to settle for putting XM radio into their planes in an attempt to compete, and tries to fly into many of the markets by actually flying 'around' the market.

Its simply more of an attempt to get more NY traffic while hoping the other airlines don't turn around and compete, but just ignore them. Somehow, I don't think its gonna help anymore.



OttoPylit

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 27): and since they don't have the cash for PTV's, they chose to settle for putting XM radio into their planes in an attempt to compete,

I'm pretty sure that we have almost a billion dollars in the bank that we can use on whatever we want. We did a lot of research and for our average stage length, TV's just weren't the way to go. People like the XM, over 100 channels of anything that you can pretty much want to listen to.

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 23): Do you think they will sell any one way only tickets?

If you're willing to buy one, they'll sell it to you  

'902

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 23): Do you think they will sell any one way only tickets?

Airtran tickets are sold as one-ways like all the other LCC's.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 27): Instead of competing directly with B6 out of JFK or WN out of ISP, they choose HPN. This way, they avoid congestion at LGA as well as competition, do not compete against B6, WN, CO, DL, or AA directly since they are "choosing" to service HPN. FL is scared of Jetblue, as evidenced by the wetleasing of A320's for the ATL-West Coast flights when B6 started, and since they don't have the cash for PTV's, they chose to settle for putting XM radio into their planes in an attempt to compete, and tries to fly into many of the markets by actually flying 'around' the market.

Check your sources. Airtran already flys to EWR and LGA both, so I doubt they're trying to be "flying around the market" like Southwest does. I also doubt they're afraid of head-to-head competition with CO when they've slashed fares on routes like DAY-EWR, IND-EWR, causing CO to follow suit. Why go to JFK too when they're already in the other 2 NYC airports? ISP is way too far out there to be of value to the NYC metro, let WN keep it, it's not even that lucrative to WN one may assume looking at their lack of a buildup there as opposed to PHL, MDW, etc.

Just to prove to you...
http://www.airtran.com/route-map/city_information.aspx

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 27): I doubt FL is trying to snag any Westchester Cty folks with these flights

I have to agree with Tornado -- YES, they ARE going after Westchester/Fairfield. HPN is not an airport people from other parts of the metro area commute to, it basically lives off of local traffic (and maybe people from parts north). That being said, Westchester/Fairfield is ~1.5M people, so its not like we're talking a small market (how many other major cities are <1.5M people?!?!).

By flying out of HPN, they are betting they have an edge over B6, CO, AA, and DL, as their market research probably tells them enough people from Westchester/Fairfield drive to LGA, EWR, and JFK to fly those airlines to FL markets in order to fill a couple of daily 717's 100x over!

Personally, I've never flown FL. I don't have an opinion of them either way, but would generally avoid them if given a choice as I have status on DL and US and plenty of miles on AA and B6 also. However, if they offerred an equivalently priced product with the same number of stops from HPN....I would definitely consider them (assuming I was in Westchester, of course).

And people like my parents, who don't have status on other airlines and fly based on price and convenience would DEFINITELY fly them!

Quoting Richierich (Reply 17): I know firsthand that long-term parking at HPN is very expensive and not very plentiful

This is true, but you can actually get your friends to drop you off and pick you up at HPN. I have alot of friends who won't take me to JFK or LGA, god forbid EWR.

Whats funny is everyone is saying how the LCC wont do as good in the upscale area...

Has any looked at the aircraft flying to HPN these days!?!? the AA and UA 737s are GONE!

Air Tran will be one of the few airlines if not the only airline, actually offering a premium product for the premium passengers!

Pretty interesting. I guess they found a niche in the HPN-PBI market. DL will probably try to chase FL out or hurt yields and loads by throwing some RJ's at it.

WOW! What a surprise! I was really hoping B6 to to start HPN service.

It'll be great seeing the 717's land while I'm driving down 684.

[Edited 2006-01-24 02:51:25]

[

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 27): I doubt FL is trying to snag any Westchester Cty folks with these flights. FL is known for flying into an area without directly flying into the city. Instead of competing directly with B6 out of JFK or WN out of ISP, they choose HPN. This way, they avoid congestion at LGA as well as competition, do not compete against B6, WN, CO, DL, or AA directly since they are "choosing" to service HPN.

That's just not true. LGA,EWR are already served so HPN is a nice compliment to the area. If they were scared of congestion would they be in ATL and keep growing BOS?

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 27): since they don't have the cash for PTV's, they chose to settle for putting XM radio into their planes in an attempt to compete

Sounds like a smart business move to me. Most of their flights are east coast so they are usually not long enough to show a complete movie, so why would they waste money on that. I'm sure that if the demand grows on their cross country routes they would pursue other IFE when it is warranted.

Thats the big difference these days with the airlines that are making money and those that are not. They make a sound decision in the first place instead of just throwing money out and trying to figure out how to pay for it later.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 27): and tries to fly into many of the markets by actually flying 'around' the market.

Oh no they go to a couple cities like FNT,BMI,HPN. How about. ATL,DFW,BWI,BOS,LGA,EWR,CLT,MIA,FLL,MSY,MSP,IND,LAX,LAS,SEA,IAD,DCA,PIT,PHL.....the list can go on so I'm sure you get the point, and I hardly call those cites flying around the market.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 27): I am an equal opportunity discriminator. I discriminate against everyone equally.

Ha....Except DL. I can tell you one thing, I have a lot of friends at DL that are disgusted with their latest moves (some just found out today that their time is up). I guess you could probably come up with some crazy story about how DL is not in the wrong for letting another 1000 mechanics go. It should have never came to this in the first place. But thats for another thread, even though another FL thread has been hijacked by you once again.

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 28): I'm pretty sure that we have almost a billion dollars in the bank

Any link to financial statement that says this?

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 30): Check your sources. Airtran already flys to EWR and LGA both, so I doubt they're trying to be "flying around the market" like Southwest does. I also doubt they're afraid of head-to-head competition with CO when they've slashed fares on routes like DAY-EWR, IND-EWR, causing CO to follow suit. Why go to JFK too when they're already in the other 2 NYC airports? ISP is way too far out there to be of value to the NYC metro, let WN keep it, it's not even that lucrative to WN one may assume looking at their lack of a buildup there as opposed to PHL, MDW, etc. Just to prove to you... http://www.airtran.com/route-map/cit....aspx

Quoting Dartland (Reply 31): I have to agree with Tornado

Quoting BH (Reply 36): That's just not true. LGA,EWR are already served so HPN is a nice compliment to the area.

No people, I'm not saying FL doesn't serve the NYC market, I know they already servce LGA and EWR. But I am referring to Florida routes. For instance, FL is starting HPN-PBI flights. But does FL fly from LGA or EWR to any Florida markets? No. THATS the point I was making. If they were to try Florida routes from LGA, EWR, JFK, or ISP, they would get slaughtered by the dominant airlines already there, or in LGA's case, get floored by congestion. By flying HPN-PBI, they are offering NY-FL routes but flying 'AROUND' the market and into HPN. That way, they aren't facing head to head competition from CO, B6, WN, DL, and AA.

Quoting BH (Reply 36): Sounds like a smart business move to me. Most of their flights are east coast so they are usually not long enough to show a complete movie, so why would they waste money on that. I'm sure that if the demand grows on their cross country routes they would pursue other IFE when it is warranted.

But isn't Airtran "expanding" to west coast flights? I would think the answer would be yes, so why not add the IFE? The IFE may not be warranted now, but it certainly will be in the future, after only XM is installed. Airtran isn't known to think ahead. For instance, they bought the 717 planning for an airplane on short routes, but when they saw the opportunity to expand westward suddenly, they didn't have a plane that could make it. Enter A320's until 737's can come online. They didn't have any IFE at all on their planes, just another no-frills carrier. But B6 enter's ATL and suddenly Airtran makes the sudden decision to go for XM radio, not because its better for the markets, its because it was a knee-jerk reaction to B6 and they needed something to try to compete. And now they see the NE-FL market has a lot of travel, even if it is low-yield, and so they enter the market, but choose to fly from HPN to not have direct competition with the other carriers. And to top it off, Airtran feels the need to give their employees a self-confidence boost and re-brand's them "crew members?" I'm sorry, isn't that already taken by Jetblue? I think it is. Airtran is trying to be like Jetblue, but just can't keep up.

Quoting BH (Reply 36): Ha....Except DL.

Ha, you don't know me as well as you think you do. Check past posts. When I don't think DL makes a good move or when they do something that negatively affects me, I make it known. I just have been lucky that it hasn't happened often.

Quoting BH (Reply 36): I guess you could probably come up with some crazy story about how DL is not in the wrong for letting another 1000 mechanics go. It should have never came to this in the first place.

Your telling ME?! I've been told by DL before that I was going to be furloughed. I've had to move to other cities before in order to avoid being furloughed. Believe me, if anyone can say that it should have never come to this, its me. But the jury is still out on how many mechanics will be furloughed. Nothing is set in complete stone just yet. Some will be let go, yes, and it may be a larger number, but any numbers that come out are likely to be scaled back a bit, that is what DL usually does.

Quoting BH (Reply 36): But thats for another thread, even though another FL thread has been hijacked by you once again.

Thats right! But lets be honest, with the exception of this thread which was a surprise announcement by FL, most FL threads are just a bunch of FL people talking to each other and get old pretty quick. You have to count on me to liven up the conversation a bit.  D



OttoPylit

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 27): I doubt FL is trying to snag any Westchester Cty folks with these flights. FL is known for flying into an area without directly flying into the city.

Since a high % of FL's sales are booked directly thru their website, I'll bet they've studied the detail, and found Westchester Cty was driving into the city quite a bit to use their service. I fly FL into LGA when I need to go to meetings in Rye, and since my client books my tickets for me, maybe I helped bring the service in? hehehehe As others have said, FL already serves 2 of the 3 major NYC airports. Your comment doesn't hold water.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 27): FL is scared of Jetblue, as evidenced by the wetleasing of A320's for the ATL-West Coast flights when B6 started

Didn't have much to be scared of, B6 didn't last long in ATL at all. They were simply protecting their core market. Good business, IMO.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 27): and since they don't have the cash for PTV's, they chose to settle for putting XM radio into their planes in an attempt to compete

Shorter average flight length makes XM a better option for AirTran. B6 flies a lot more 2 hours+ flying, which you'd need to see a block of programming start to fininsh. Besides, why pay B6 for LiveTV, since B6 owns it? Why contribute to their bottom line?

Quoting CMHSRQ (Reply 9): me, PBI is the HPN of Florida, a lot of well off New Yorkers have second homes in the PBI area.

actually, it's the other way around. sort of. A lot of well off FORMER new yorkers have a second house in westchester and greenwich areas. Why the distinction? For tax reasons, the primary residence must be in Florida, and you must spend over 50% of your nights there.

Thus, this direct flight will be valuable to them, as they can do more traveling in shorter amount of time to get in their 'florida time' while still being up north.

Quoting Richierich (Reply 17): No disagreements from me, although I know firsthand that long-term parking at HPN is very expensive and not very plentiful.

True, but a lot of people will be taking car services from their homes anyway, and with the much closer airport, the fares will be lower and the need to leave early because of potential crippling traffic will be minimized.

Quoting PROSA (Reply 21): I can't think of any other airport in the United States that is in such an upscale area.

Maybe SNA? That's about it.

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 23): My sister-in-law lives outside of White Plains. Do you think they will sell any one way only tickets?

Sure. They are an LCC. And that's another key. Many PBI customers won't be booking a 30 day return, but would rather have an decently priced one-way option. With one-way business class at $250-$400, that's pretty sweet deal...

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 40): Quoting PROSA (Reply 21): I can't think of any other airport in the United States that is in such an upscale area. Maybe SNA? That's about it.

Aspen (ASE) and Eagle (EGE) Colorado.

Great news! Sweet to have HPN-MCO/PBI something HPN probably has never seen before.

I forgot that Delta operates HPN-ATL, though only 2-3 CRJs? Maybe a low yielding market? Wonder how FL will do on this route... I can see Delta bumping up an HPN-ATL flight maybe with a CR7 (maybe MD88 1x daily?) if it seems to generate a lot of yielding traffic, most likely a CR7 possibly. Hopefully both airlines can sustain profits for HPN which would add flexibility to travelers and lower prices for these routes.

None the less it'll be interesting to see how well FL does in these markets (particularly ATL...PBI i'm not so sure also)

Quoting Rampart (Reply 41): Aspen (ASE) and Eagle (EGE) Colorado.

But those are more vacation destinations than a place where there is a large, wealthy population base that lives there year round. Many resort airports would fit in that category.

But yes, the land value around there is pretty high.

I think the new announced service to White Plains should work well, Im sure FL researched the market as said above, the carrier makes informed decisions where profitability is certain. Through the pure nature of the airline business markets can and sometime do change, and thus do sometime need to reduce or eliminate service such as DFW-LAX, its much like a chess game or the stock market, you can make educated decisions but their is never anyway for certain to know which way the wind will actually blow.

In regards to remarks made about how AirTran has grown and the decisions they have made with equipment and entertainment options on those planes...I will just give you my view...
AirTran has reinvented itself and reemerged as a competitive carrier. Go back nine or so years ago and ask any Delta employee where they thought
Value-Jet would be in ten years and they would have quickly replied with pleasure..."AHAA, dead and gone". Hardly from the truth. The company reemerged but in order to so do they knew they needed to make certain operating decisions that would enable them to be a viable player. I have seen the airline make operating decisions in phases...Joe Leonard came on 1998, the decision to design and purchase a new airplane the MD-95 had already been made with the first airplane arriving in September 1999. Noticeable change didn't begin till after 9/11, a time when several carriers were cutting back to stay above water and when FL decided to grow...at that same time they began phasing out the DC-9's and in order to do that not enough 717's were on board yet, so they contracted with AWisconsin for a year in a half to give them flexibility, serve lower yielding markets with fewer seats, while also phasing out DC-9's and phasing in 717's. Almost like changing the supports under your elevated house, you have to put stronger, reinforced boards under there in phases and not all at once so to have a stonger foundation.
At the same time, in 2003 the carrier did expand to the L.A. market sooner then it would like to have, but with B6 competition coming the move came quickly, but they had no airplane..the answer again a contracted company until they could decide on one of their on own, almost an investment decision. They knew they wanted the market, and in order to keep a footing with B6, they made the move, probably lost a little in the beginning
(the A320's were larger with more seats to fill) but its working for them now.
The airline has also grown and risen to a level offering more services that the legacies offer, at not the rock bottem cattle car price Value-Jet offered years before, but yet at a slightly lower fare with competive advantages like
XM Radio....giving the traveler a value product, at a good price with new or now near new equipment. It works for me, from a passenger stand point, if two airlines flew to the same markets with similar fares I would choose the one with new airplanes and entertainment extra's. AirTran is positioning itself very effectively, cost effectively and profitable. Ten years ago, Delta looked at Concourse C in ATL and saw old rusty DC-9s coming and going and thought nothing of it..."they'll be gone soon, no way they can survive..."
Now, well, brand new 737's and 717's going across the country are coming and going, offer more service to competitive and in this case lucrative markets, as stated, in some cases "Flying around the most competitive and congested markets" pretty smart don't you think? I do. The airline will do it their way at their pace. Some agree with it, some do not. They do what works for them, which I would say is working.

JMH

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 43): But those are more vacation destinations than a place where there is a large, wealthy population base that lives there year round. Many resort airports would fit in that category.

OK, granted. And those ski resorts don't have any LCCs flying to them. (You might say, however, that all the Florida resorts have an affluent, as well as middle class, following, and the swarms of LCC flights to Florida also appeal to the affluent.)

But, as I mentioned above, with only slightly lower income demographics, places like Orange County (you also mentioned), Burbank, Providence, and Long Island do very well with the LCCs, and it's not just middle class flying them.

On the flip side, Westchester isn't all wall-to-wall mansions. Peekskill, Yonkers, and the entire lower Hudson Valley, to name a few, would just love to have more moderate priced choices at their convenient airport.

Rampart

Too bad we can't get SWF rolling along...so many of us living in the upper Mid-Hudson Valley would use Stewart exclusively. Check out the current airfares and route structures..no wonder nobody uses SWF to it's potential

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 8): they only have one 3-4 deck parking garage for both short and long term, thats it

Probably the most expensive airport parking in the country!

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 23): My sister-in-law lives outside of White Plains. Do you think they will sell any one way only tickets?

Why you wanna go shack up with your sister-in-law? How does your brother feel about that  

Quoting Rampart (Reply 45): But, as I mentioned above, with only slightly lower income demographics, places like Orange County (you also mentioned), Burbank, Providence, and Long Island do very well with the LCCs, and it's not just middle class flying them. On the flip side, Westchester isn't all wall-to-wall mansions. Peekskill, Yonkers, and the entire lower Hudson Valley, to name a few, would just love to have more moderate priced choices at their convenient airport.

I didn't know we were arguing about something here...

I made no suggestion that an LCC could or couldn't work here or there or anywhere. The question was if there were other airports with as wealthy a demographic right around it. SNA, being on the Irvine-Newport Beach border seemed to fit that bill. Even the industrial areas around SNA are very high rent, including high end Mercedes tuner BRABUS.

Burbank isn't even close. The neighborhoods around Burbank are not wealthy. There are some shady neighborhoods, discount shoe barn, etc. To the east is old, higher rent Burbank, but north, south and west are "low rent" Burbank, North Hollywood, etc. It's just CA has high property value. Ditto Providence of Islip.

And I'm pretty familiar with Westchester, since I'm over 30 and visited him often since I was zero. And where the airport is (right near Greenwich) is very well to do.

Hats off to Airtran. I wish them much success in their new service! I have enjoyed every flight with them.