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N328KF
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WSJ: Boeing & Airbus Cause Cfrp Price Hike

Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:41 am

This is a long article with a lot of detail, so I just have some snippets. Here's a brief fair use excerpt:
LONDON -- The likes of Boeing Co. and Airbus are buying such large quantities of lightweight composite materials that smaller makers of high-end sporting goods are feeling the pinch.

[...]

"We've been seriously impacted by the shortage," says Robert Marte, chief of the racket-sports division of Head NV, a major Austrian producer of tennis and squash rackets and skis. Carbon fiber, he says, costs 150% more than it did two years ago.

[...]

Cannondale Bicycle Corp., of the U.S., is using more carbon not only in its bikes but also in its apparel line, according to David Budd, director of marketing.

[...]

Much of the pressure comes from Boeing's twin-engine 787 jet and Airbus's double-deck A380 and planned twin-engine A350. By weight, about 50% of the main structure of the 787, which is set to enter service in 2008, will be made from composites. [...]

[...]

Boeing has long-term contracts with its sole composites supplier for the 787, Toray Industries Inc., of Japan, a Boeing spokeswoman says. Late last year, Mike Bair, who heads the 787 program, said Chicago-based Boeing hadn't seen a large rise in composite prices, thanks to those long-term supply agreements.
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BlatantEcho
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RE: WSJ: Boeing & Airbus Cause Cfrp Price Hike

Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:58 am

Between them and the government, the stuff is harder to find.

I'm in the sailing business, and for the hi-tech sleds and skiffs that are mostly carbon/kevlar layups, it's getting pricey.......

George
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atmx2000
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RE: WSJ: Boeing & Airbus Cause Cfrp Price Hike

Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:07 am

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 1):
I'm in the sailing business, and for the hi-tech sleds and skiffs that are mostly carbon/kevlar layups, it's getting pricey.......

Well, a sail making company was a source for some of the robotics technology that Boeing is using for making the 787, so you can blame them.

http://www.sail-world.com/Company_Ne....cfm?Nid=17059&SEid=457&hasFlash=1
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BestWestern
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RE: WSJ: Boeing & Airbus Cause Cfrp Price Hike

Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:11 am

Will this push 380/787 manufacturing prices up I wonder?
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atmx2000
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RE: WSJ: Boeing & Airbus Cause Cfrp Price Hike

Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:13 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 3):
Will this push 380/787 manufacturing prices up I wonder?

The article says that Boeing hasn't seen price rises due to long term supply contracts.
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N79969
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RE: WSJ: Boeing & Airbus Cause Cfrp Price Hike

Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:22 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 4):
Quoting BestWestern (Reply 3):
Will this push 380/787 manufacturing prices up I wonder?

The article says that Boeing hasn't seen price rises due to long term supply contracts.

Unless suppliers add capacity, prices will have to rise in the long term. But whether that will impact aerospace very much will turn on whether how much bargaining power the industry has relative to sporting goods etc.
 
atmx2000
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RE: WSJ: Boeing & Airbus Cause Cfrp Price Hike

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:20 am

Quoting N79969 (Reply 5):
Unless suppliers add capacity, prices will have to rise in the long term. But whether that will impact aerospace very much will turn on whether how much bargaining power the industry has relative to sporting goods etc.

Since Boeing is using Toray as its sole supplier and has a tight relationship with them, seeing as they were able to get a plant located in Washington to supply them with composites, I think Boeing will get what they need and that Toray will invest to increase manufacturing capacity to provide tape to Boeing and its contractors.
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BlatantEcho
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RE: WSJ: Boeing & Airbus Cause Cfrp Price Hike

Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:24 am

yeah, North Sails licensed some of their tech. to Boeing. 3DL sails are laminates, the way they build them is the coolest thing. Tape driver heads, etc etc.

I wanted to build some carbon boat accessories, but it's pretty expensive at this point. Everyone loves those composites.
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kc135topboom
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RE: WSJ: Boeing & Airbus Cause Cfrp Price Hike

Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:25 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 3):
Will this push 380/787 manufacturing prices up I wonder?

Include the A-350 in this, also.

Quoting N79969 (Reply 5):
Unless suppliers add capacity, prices will have to rise in the long term. But whether that will impact aerospace very much will turn on whether how much bargaining power the industry has relative to sporting goods etc.



Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 6):
Since Boeing is using Toray as its sole supplier and has a tight relationship with them, seeing as they were able to get a plant located in Washington to supply them with composites, I think Boeing will get what they need and that Toray will invest to increase manufacturing capacity to provide tape to Boeing and its contractors.

I'll bet that Toray will add manufacturing capacity.

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