Concorde001
Topic Author
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BMI Moving Jobs To India

Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:07 am

SOURCE:


"LONDON: Over 150 workers at Castle Donington-based British airline BMI face redundancy because their jobs are to be moved to India.

BMI announced that 154 accounts department workers, all based at its Donington Hall head office, have been told they are at risk of redundancy. It said the move followed a 12-month review of "systems and practices".

A statement said: "BMI is working with industry specialists Kale Consultants of India to develop and implement a new system."

Spokesman Phil Shepherd said Kale Consultants would take over the work done by the accounts department workers to improve efficiency and reduce costs.

He admitted the work would be carried out in India, not Britain. Although 154 workers have been given notice of redundancy, Shepherd said the change would create 21 new posts at Donington Hall.

He said it was hoped that with redeployment and voluntary severance, the number of compulsory redundancies could be kept to about 100. The new system is expected to begin in July.

BMI said it had entered into discussions with staff and the GMB union (Britain's general trade union) and promised a 90-day consultation period, starting two days ago. About 800 people are employed at Donington Hall - 290 work in the department affected by the announcement.

BMI spokeswoman Jo Tabberer said: "There will be a net loss of 133 positions. This is due to new technology in ticket transaction processing. Things can be done more efficiently now and that reduces cost and, unfortunately, reduces manning levels."

Jed Purkis, regional organiser at the GMB union, said moving the jobs to India would create resentment among staff and customers.

"The company that has supplied the computer system is running it from India, meaning the jobs will be replaced by low cost posts," he said.

"It would be a gamble on the company's part because of the backlash we have seen against those who export jobs to low cost countries"
 
HS748
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:30 am

India is well known for the high callibre of its accountancy profession, so this is no surprise. Many companies, including BA, have already outsourced some or all of their finance departments to India. It's called globalisation!
 
concentriq
Posts: 283
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:50 am

Quoting HS748 (Reply 1):
India is well known for the high callibre of its accountancy profession

This was meant to be sarcastic, correct? This is indeed called globalisation, but primary driver for this is NOT "quality" or "high callibre", but "low cost". Nothing against indian workers, but "low cost" what India is known for, which is exactly what doctor ordered for some companies.
Mobilis In Mobili
 
babybus
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:15 am

I don't know why they don't move the whole airline to India. To survive this year BMI will probably need low cost everything from directors to cleaners.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:25 am

Quoting Concentriq (Reply 2):
Nothing against indian workers, but "low cost" what India is known for, which is exactly what doctor ordered for some companies.

Yes, but remember that without acceptable quality, this would never happen...if cost was the only criteria, I guess Somalia or some such place would be a better option...do you see that happening? Ask yourself why...and things will be much clearer....
 
LAXDESI
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:36 am

Quoting Concentriq (Reply 2):
This was meant to be sarcastic, correct? This is indeed called globalisation, but primary driver for this is NOT "quality" or "high callibre", but "low cost". Nothing against indian workers, but "low cost" what India is known for, which is exactly what doctor ordered for some companies.

Indian exam for certified accountants(CA) is much harder than the US equivalent CPA exam.

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 4):
Yes, but remember that without acceptable quality, this would never happen...if cost was the only criteria, I guess Somalia or some such place would be a better option...do you see that happening? Ask yourself why...and things will be much clearer....

Very well put.
 
CalAir
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:59 am

Well if they are anything like the call center agents ive experienced with Capital One and 3 mobile god help BMI! Different profession I know.
British Caledonian...we never forget, you have a choice
 
AirRyan
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:11 am

Rumor has NW sending a great majority of their rez agent jobs to Singapore. Dell had bad luck with their call centers in India though, so many are realizing that it's not all gravy as some might like to project it to be.
 
nethkt
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:33 pm

Yep, this is not something new.

All Europeans and American airlines are moving as much department as they can to Asia. Lower cost is what (nearly) everyone's need.

Not only ticket, reservations, pre-flight units, mileage but aslo load control!!  Wink
Let's just blame it on yields.
 
karan69
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:28 pm

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 7):
Dell had bad luck with their call centers in India though, so many are realizing that it's not all gravy as some might like to project it to be.

My friend works for them and they are just opening two new offices with around 120 postitions each.........I dont think that would happen if they were not happy.
 
gkirk
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:10 pm

Quoting CalAir (Reply 6):
Well if they are anything like the call center agents ive experienced with Capital One and 3 mobile god help BMI!

Indeed, the majority of people that companies like those employ in India can barely speak English.
Perhaps this is just another way to get everyone to book through the web  Wink
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
whitehatter
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:28 pm

Quoting CalAir (Reply 6):
Well if they are anything like the call center agents ive experienced with Capital One and 3 mobile god help BMI!

It depends, I found Capital One's call centre to be atrocious (Citibank were not much better either) after they relocated to India. However Barclaycard must employ a different company as their Indian staff are polite, efficient and extremely well spoken.

It really does depend on the Indian company which does the work. Some seem less able to handle English than others. However if BMI are just doing accounts there then they are just following British Airways and the rest who have successfully moved back office transaction processing to Indian IT centres.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
donder10
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:28 pm

Indeed, the majority of people that companies like those employ in India can barely speak English.

Personally,I find it easier to understand them than call centres in the north-east over here.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:05 am

Quoting CalAir (Reply 6):
Well if they are anything like the call center agents ive experienced with Capital One and 3 mobile god help BMI! Different profession I know.

This is exactly the point that you guys miss...you're too hooked onto the voice based call centres....Kale Consultants is doing a lot of back office processing for a lot of airlines already and is a market leader in that sector...the work that BMI is outsourcing is accounting and ticket reconciliation,etc..type of work...will probably not involve much voice based support....and in this type of work, the accent or the English levels of the agents is not the prime criteria....

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 7):
Rumor has NW sending a great majority of their rez agent jobs to Singapore. Dell had bad luck with their call centers in India though, so many are realizing that it's not all gravy as some might like to project it to be.

As someone else on this thread has pointed out, and I myself know, Dell have actually opened MORE centres in India (the latest being in Chandigarh I think)...wonder why they're doing that if they are so unhappy....

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 10):
Indeed, the majority of people that companies like those employ in India can barely speak English.

Your lack of knowlegde of India is pitiful....most Indians educated in the English medium speak as well as or even better than people in Europe and N. America....
 
mhodgson
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:54 am

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 13):
Your lack of knowlegde of India is pitiful....most Indians educated in the English medium speak as well as or even better than people in Europe and N. America....

Try telling that to anyone in the UK has had to deal with the call centres. People cannot stand them! Try booking a train ticket and you will be routed to an Indian call centre - a nightmare as they have no local knowledge, and they are difficult to understand, and they struggle to understand us. They can cope with well known stations, but try asking for stations like 'Bare Lane' and 'Daisy Hill' and they are out of their depth.
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Gr8Circle
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:58 am

Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 14):
They can cope with well known stations, but try asking for stations like 'Bare Lane' and 'Daisy Hill' and they are out of their depth.

That can be directly attributed to poor transfer of information by the British client...you can't blame the Indian agents for not being familiar with 'Bare Lane' and 'Daisy Hill'.... smile 
 
BestWestern
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:24 am

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 13):
Your lack of knowlegde of India is pitiful....most Indians educated in the English medium speak as well as or even better than people in Europe and N. America

You may find that their level of english is good, but they are hopeless at understanding spoken Europan or North American english, and acting on their requirements. It took me 35 minutes to make a flight booking using the bmi call centre, as the nice, but useless staff didnt have a clue.

I moved my car insurance from Norwich Union as their new indian call centre is appallingly bad to deal with. Again, super friendly, but useless at solving my needs.

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 15):
That can be directly attributed to poor transfer of information by the British client...you can't blame the Indian agents for not being familiar with 'Bare Lane' and 'Daisy Hill'....

Dont blame the customer. The indian agents should be familiar with the locations.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
vsflyer747400
Posts: 144
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:31 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 16):
Dont blame the customer. The indian agents should be familiar with the locations.

Totally agree with you, all boils down to poor quality training. Those sitting in the call centers down there seem to know very little, number of times I have had to call BMI to ask a question that should get a straight forward answer and been left holding for ages while 'they go and find out'.  banghead 
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TKMCE
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:39 am

BA-WNS/SQ-ASDC/LH-RDM/LX(or rather SR)-Datamatics.

BMI to add to to a very long list - stale news!!!!
Why did they take so long to wake up ?- better late than never!

And Kale are old hands in the revenue accounting business. They have quite a few other airlines as well (I know QR is one).
 
BestWestern
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:46 am

Quoting HS748 (Reply 18):
Your comments reveal you as a downright racist.

Sorry, what an appalling thing to say.


Quoting HS748 (Reply 18):
Quoting Concentriq (Reply 2):
the primary driver for this is NOT "quality" or "high callibre", but "low cost".

This is accurate - Bmi are outsourcing to India to save money, not improve quality. Its got nothing to do with racism. Companies that outsource often fail to recieve the quality that is expected. The BD call centre is an excellent example.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
Pe@rson
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:02 am

I have never had any problem whatever understanding an Indian when communicating with them.

It is clear that the move was decided in order to help reduce its costs. However, the quality aspect must still be there or else it would be rather self-defeating and counter-productive. Accordingly, I am of the opinion that the quality will be equal to, or not much below, what would be offered in the UK - and at a cheaper rate.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
BestWestern
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:19 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 21):
I am of the opinion that the quality will be equal to, or not much below, what would be offered in the UK - and at a cheaper rate.

Why then are customer focused companies moving their help desks back to the UK and the US. Outsourcing of call centres and helpdesk often doesnt:

1. deliver the cost savings expected
2. deliver the quality expected

And often has the opposite effect - it drives customers and revenue away.

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 21):
have never had any problem whatever understanding an Indian when communicating with them

Me neither - they understand me, but dont have a clue what to do with my request, as they are badly trained, and have no one to ask. Why- because the call centre is there to make money for them, and save money for the airline. Customer satisfaction suffers. Be it in India or Romania.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
Pe@rson
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:30 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 22):
And often has the opposite effect

Because stupid fools get all concerned with the perception and have a silly 'I want to talk to a British person' mentality.

If the quality levels can't be assured and if the projected savings can't be achieved, then why would they bother? What is it - a lack of foresight? Poorly implemented? Crap training? Badly researched?
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:31 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 22):
Why then are customer focused companies moving their help desks back to the UK and the US.

Do you really think that's happening? A few companies here and there, changing their decision to outsource does not amount to "companies moving their hlep desks back to the ...." In any business, there are a few failures here and there.....you just have to go to India and see the long lines of European and American companies struggling to outsource their services to a local party, to understand what is really happening...don't hook onto those few cases and assume that the whole scenario is one of despair...most Western companies who have outsourced to India are QUITE happy with their decision.....

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 22):
customer focused companies

So, do you mean that IBM, Microsoft, Intel, GE, Bank of America, Citigroup, ABN Amro Bank, BA, etc....are not 'customer focussed???' Because all of them are laying great emphasis on their outsourcing to India.....
 
Gman94
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:51 am

So when all our jobs are outsourced to India and the UK is unemployed who exactly is going to buy tickets on BMI flights. And with the jobs going to India the standard of living is gradually rising, so then what happens move again to where else these companies can get some cheaper labour?
British Airways - The Way To Fly
 
aseem
Posts: 1971
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:59 am

Quoting Gman94 (Reply 25):
So when all our jobs are outsourced to India and the UK is unemployed who exactly is going to buy tickets on BMI flights. And with the jobs going to India the standard of living is gradually rising, so then what happens move again to where else these companies can get some cheaper labour?

dude!! you got it right this time. I recommend you read "The World is Flat" by Tom Friedman.
rgds
VT-ASJ
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:36 am

I feel better training would def help.The future is in outsourcing.
About the English Language I think the Accent would be the problem not the Education level.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
abrelosojos
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:39 am

Quoting Gman94 (Reply 24):
So when all our jobs are outsourced to India and the UK is unemployed who exactly is going to buy tickets on BMI flights. And with the jobs going to India the standard of living is gradually rising, so then what happens move again to where else these companies can get some cheaper labour?

= You're beginning to get it  Smile - countries evolve. India's challenge is how it does post outsourcing backend office work IN THE SERVICE sector. Most Asian miracle economies have done transformation super well - Taiwan, Singapore, HK, etc. Western countries are struggling to cope with the change. IMO, countries such as Finland, Ireland, Sweden, have done a lot of work to redefine themselves. U.S. and U.K. fall in the middle of the spectrum. Worst prepared for this new world is countries like France and Germany who just don't get it ... well, Germany does get it ... but entitled lifestyles are hard to change.

-A.
Live, and let live.
 
LH459
Posts: 793
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:15 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 26):
About the English Language I think the Accent would be the problem not the Education level.

Just so. Personally, I have no problems communicating with Indian english speakers, nor do they have problems understanding me. My father, on the other hand, can't understand Indian english to save his life, and they have trouble understanding him, too (he's from New Orleans, and has the accent to prove it).

Back on topic, I think this is an interesting but not surprising move for a carrier struggling to stay afloat. I don't foresee any quality issues whatsoever--as LAXDESI pointed out, educational standards in India are often higher than elsewhere!
"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
 
Gr8Circle
Posts: 2383
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:52 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 16):

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 15):
That can be directly attributed to poor transfer of information by the British client...you can't blame the Indian agents for not being familiar with 'Bare Lane' and 'Daisy Hill'....

Dont blame the customer. The indian agents should be familiar with the locations.

When you say 'customer' here, if you are referring to the British company that outsourced the work...well, they are completely responsible for transferring the information to the Indian call centre....how else would you expect the Indian agents to have all the info???? Of course they ARE responsible....

Quoting VSFLYER747400 (Reply 17):
Totally agree with you, all boils down to poor quality training. Those sitting in the call centers down there seem to know very little, number of times I have had to call BMI to ask a question that should get a straight forward answer and been left holding for ages while 'they go and find out'.

Please note that even a british born agent working in a British Call centre, will not know each and everything about the market there just by virtue of being from that country....the customer (meaning the outsourcing company) has to provide the proper training and transfer of info....inspite of having done that properly, if the call centre agent in India still can't find the info quickly, then that's a problem at the Indian end....

Quoting Gman94 (Reply 24):
So when all our jobs are outsourced to India and the UK is unemployed who exactly is going to buy tickets on BMI flights. And with the jobs going to India the standard of living is gradually rising, so then what happens move again to where else these companies can get some cheaper labour?

Don't worry, that's not likely to happen too soon....only jobs that can be outsourced to the benefit of the European (or American) company, will be outsourced....
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2887
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:31 am

Someone please explain...

If customer service given by agents based in India and other overseas locations is so very satisfactory as some are claiming, why do all U.S.-based airlines who have outsourced reservations give their "best" customers (elite FF members) a separate telephone number by which they will reach an agent located in the U.S.?
 
Skymonster
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:00 pm

Folks - all this "difficult to communicate" stuff is irrelevent in this case. BMI are moving some revenue accounting functions to India - many airlines have done this already because its cheaper than paying local workers, and it requires ZERO communication with passengers.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
Danny
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:17 pm

Quoting Concentriq (Reply 2):
This was meant to be sarcastic, correct? This is indeed called globalisation, but primary driver for this is NOT "quality" or "high callibre",

You are very wrong here. Indeed professional accountants from India are very highly valued in this profession.
 
cricket
Posts: 2068
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:18 pm

Most of the outsourcing threads over here turn out to be a bashing fight between guys on one side (hello, hello) and the people other side whose country might be losing jobs.
OK, look at it this way, you passenger wants to pay lower fares, but material costs (food, fuel, the planes are all going up) so where can you cut costs? Not in safety related matters - therefore labour must take a hit. If you don't cut costs, the penny pinching passenger (who might be one of those bemoaning the loss of jobs to India - with the thought 'how can those brown b******* take our jobs?' running in the back of their heads - and then posting incedenary posts on places like A.Net) will fly a low-cost like FR instead of BD.
And BTW, India isn't the lowest cost outsourcing destination anymore, its the best and the most experienced.
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BestWestern
Posts: 7039
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:26 pm

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 29):
Quoting BestWestern (Reply 16):

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 15):
That can be directly attributed to poor transfer of information by the British client...you can't blame the Indian agents for not being familiar with 'Bare Lane' and 'Daisy Hill'....

Dont blame the customer. The indian agents should be familiar with the locations.

When you say 'customer' here

I mean the end user (the traveller, not the company that is doing the outsourcing) - the customer wants the information - the agent cant give it to them.

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 23):
Because all of them are laying great emphasis on their outsourcing to India.....

They are doing it to save money, not improve service. very simple.

Quoting Skymonster (Reply 31):
all this "difficult to communicate" stuff is irrelevent in this case. BMI are moving some revenue accounting

BD are also closing their Diamond club desk, and moving that to India. From experience things that take seconds in the UK can take up to 30 minutes in India. Due to bad training - not bad staffing.

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 30):
If customer service given by agents based in India and other overseas locations is so very satisfactory as some are claiming, why do all U.S.-based airlines who have outsourced reservations give their "best" customers (elite FF members) a separate telephone number by which they will reach an agent located in the U.S.?

Excellent example. Dell have outsourced help desk for everyone, except for Platinum customers, which is in their European HQ campus in Dublin. In that way they own the relationship with their key customers. When it is outsourced they lose this.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4050
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:58 pm

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 30):
If customer service given by agents based in India and other overseas locations is so very satisfactory as some are claiming, why do all U.S.-based airlines who have outsourced reservations give their "best" customers (elite FF members) a separate telephone number by which they will reach an agent located in the U.S.?

= Perhaps because they reserve their "best" customers for their most experienced reps which just because of simple historical time just happened to be in the U.S. Not because one country (ANY) is inherently by some cultural trait better than another. As the Indian call centers garner time under their belt, they would too get all the "best" customers. Trust me. Its pretty simple evolution.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
cricket
Posts: 2068
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:23 pm

RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:24 am

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 30):
why do all U.S.-based airlines who have outsourced reservations give their "best" customers (elite FF members) a separate telephone number by which they will reach an agent located in the U.S.?

One rteason their 'best' customers garner enough business to pay for a US based agent. Each call made to a call centre costs money - why should an airline pay top dollar for a call centre operative who deals with low-yield customers?
Simple business logic.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 35):
As the Indian call centers garner time under their belt, they would too get all the "best" customers. Trust me. Its pretty simple evolution.

They already are in some call centres, Microsoft's High-End Tech Support is now handled out of Bangalore (along with other centres), GE does high-end outsourcing work out of India, heck a lot of the GENx engine will be designed at the Jack Welsh Centre in Bangalore, and three-quarters of the 787's avionics software is being worked on by HCL-Technologies. India is beyond just phone calls. The problem with several Westerners is that they can't understand the concept of 'Globalisation'.
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BestWestern
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Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:52 am

Quoting Cricket (Reply 36):
The problem with several Westerners is that they can't understand the concept of 'Globalisation'.

I fully embrace globalisation.

However, as with everything, its all about execution. Companies have to do it right, and not expect huge cost reductions. (remember the motto - if its too good to be true, then it is too good to be true). Corporate greed results in poor quality service in outsourced centres - not the ability of the staff in question - they do their best with the tools they have. Proper outsourcing will save money and maintain satisfaction, but badly executed outsourcing kills customer satisfaction and revenue.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 36):
Each call made to a call centre costs money - why should an airline pay top dollar for a call centre operative who deals with low-yield customers

This makes sense as long as the airline can properly segment their customer base. For example (back to Bmi) if I call my Bmi Gold number monday to friday I get excellent staff in the UK who know what to do, and can do it efficiently. If I call it at the weekend, or from Ireland I get excellent staff who are badly trained and really dont know what they are doing, and simple tasks can take thirty minutes plus. This enables me to make a direct comparison between the UK staff, and their Indian staff. This is BD's fault the every friendly Indian staff dont have the tools to do their jobs, and this is a vicious circle - those staff get demoralised, and leave, and the learning circle starts again.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 36):
India is beyond just phone calls

I fully agree - the standard of education amongst the educated indian population is superb.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
TKMCE
Posts: 819
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:43 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 37):
This is BD's fault the every friendly Indian staff dont have the tools to do their jobs, and this is a vicious circle - those staff get demoralised, and leave, and the learning circle starts again.

Summed it up well. Plus the fact that training is not given the importance it deserves. I am from the south of India, and have problems even with Indian call centres- many cases I have to give mini lessons in Indian geography to the chaps at the other end , when my call lands up at BOM or DEL! I can understand then, what can be the plight for the UK airline customers calling India! The staff at the other end are are taught about Charlton and Chelsea but in many cases have little idea about the alternates for Cardiff or EMA!
 
cricket
Posts: 2068
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:23 pm

RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:44 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 37):
Corporate greed results in poor quality service in outsourced centres - not the ability of the staff in question - they do their best with the tools they have. Proper outsourcing will save money and maintain satisfaction, but badly executed outsourcing kills customer satisfaction and revenue.

Proper Training - as you mentioned is the key. Of course, it doesn't help when the person on the other end of the line calls you a 'Brown *********', which is my point with some Westerners refusing to accept reality.
Now, some call-centres run out of here are brilliant, some are not, because the training imparted for some of these places is abysmal. Now while we might talk of Call-Centres providing job opportunities to India, many of the folks employed there are not 'top drawer' (much like call centres across the globe), after all working crazy hours isn't a cup of tea, so the 'smarter' folks go to regular jobs.
Yes, if your sole purpose is cut costs then be prepared for bad customer service. I think that credo holds true across the world, and to target Indians alone for that is a tad unfair.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 37):
I fully agree - the standard of education amongst the educated indian population is superb.

Um, I'm part of that group, and I would tend to be a bit waffly about that statement, but thats another discussion altogether.
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
BestWestern
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:50 am

Quoting Cricket (Reply 39):
Of course, it doesn't help when the person on the other end of the line calls you a 'Brown *********', which is my point with some Westerners refusing to accept reality.

India isn't the only market where part of its population is badly educated. These people think the same about Polish people also. Racism like this deserves the police being called, and charges being made.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
aseem
Posts: 1971
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:39 pm

RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:45 pm

i couldn't resist posting this news item

Dell to open fourth call centre in India: CEO
Dell Inc, the world's largest computer maker, will set up its fourth customer contact centre in India, Chief Executive Kevin Rollins said in a statement on Monday.

The company also plans to double the size of its India-based product development team during the next two years, the statement said.

The company plans to raise its headcount in India to 15,000 workers, and may set up a unit to manufacture computers in the country, a source close to the plans said on Monday.


Hindustan Times

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ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
Matt D
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:03 am

1. I concur. Offshoring is very simple. It costs about 1 tenth in salaries. That's the beginning of it. That's the end of it. It has nothing to do whatsoever with "globalization" or "inclusion".

2. As mentioned above, the people (Americans) who are crying about it in many ways have no one but themselves to blame: The people who cry the loudest are also almost always the penny chasers who will squeeze a nickel till the buffalo shits. You want cheap fares? Or do do you want to keep the jobs and the money here. You can't have both.

3. On the (thankfully) rare locations I have to call an 800 "customer service" number, the first thing I do is demand (not ask, but DEMAND) to speak to an American. If that means I have to be on hold for a few minutes, so be it.

Maybe if enough people did this (remember what was said above about call time costing money), some companies might consider brining more jobs back.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:09 am

Quoting Matt D (Reply 42):
. On the (thankfully) rare locations I have to call an 800 "customer service" number, the first thing I do is demand (not ask, but DEMAND) to speak to an American. If that means I have to be on hold for a few minutes, so be it.

You do this without even knowing if the American agent will serve you better or the non-American one will....wonder why you do that..?
 
malaysia
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:24 am

As an Internal Auditor, all I know is the airlines will never outsource Internal Audit, cause thats part of internal control and its within the Airline corporation. but accounting for the redunduncy stuff can be sent overseas.
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
Orion737
Posts: 3044
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RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:29 am

The reason BMI have to take such measures is because they tried to be a low cost carrier. If they had continued their proud tradition of offering a quality, high frequency service tailored to business and high yielding leisure travellers they would still be doing well.

BMI - Barmy Muddled incomeptents!
 
concentriq
Posts: 283
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:37 am

RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:30 am

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 5):
Indian exam for certified accountants(CA) is much harder than the US equivalent CPA exam.



Quoting Danny (Reply 32):
You are very wrong here. Indeed professional accountants from India are very highly valued in this profession.

This maybe so. While i do not know personally about the state of accounting practices in India (only from words of my acquaintances and some coworkers), what i do know PLENTY about is outsourcing of engineering labour to India. Being personally involved in 3 projects to date that have to deal with outsourcing, i can tell you FOR SURE that the primary driver for outsourcing to LCCs is cost. nothing else. even in the project planning phase this is considered a high risk, and given the highest risk value.

Then we all know about the state of outsourced customer support. Lucky for me I do not have to deal with it often.

So maybe i am making a fool of myself, and assuming too much, but i wouldnt bet that any other aspects of outsourcing, including finance is in any better shape.

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 4):
Yes, but remember that without acceptable quality, this would never happen...

oh but it does!!! many of those blight-by-night managers, who put these practices in action, dont stay on the job long enough to find out the true result of outsourcing. cutting cost is their primary concern, but the hidden costs of delays and future servise that has to be provided isnt.

PLEASE, do not get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with cost over quality, or with Indian workforce. This is the way India chose to market itself: cheap labour. Thus do not expect high quality/performance out of it.
Mobilis In Mobili
 
7LBAC111
Posts: 2427
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 9:17 am

RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:49 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 45):
If they had continued their proud tradition of offering a quality, high frequency service tailored to business and high yielding leisure travellers they would still be doing well.

No - they'd be bankrupt. End of. BMI are struggling in almost all areas of their business, and this is yet another kneejerk reaction sure to annoy more and more of their customer base.

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
BestWestern
Posts: 7039
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: BMI Moving Jobs To India

Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:08 pm

A prime example of bad training was a call I had with the BD call centre in Inda this morning.

I called to telephone check-in, and the really nice lady told me that I couldnt on tiny fares.

I gently reminded her that as a BD *G I was entitled to use telephone checkin on any fare - she said I wasnt. (untruth) She put me on old and checked with a supervisor, who agreed with her. I asked to speak to the supervisor, and was told this wasnt possible - nobody was available to talk to me.

She then said her system wouldnt allow me to check me in. (untruth), I had to call Diamond club. (untruth) . I told her diamond club was closed at the weekend, and she said it wasnt (untruth). She then suggested Online checkin.

I told her i telephone checkin every sunday using this fare, and on this number, as I'm entitled to. Back on hold for the second time.....

Thirty seconds later.... Sir, I'm very sorry, I can check you in... where would you like to sit.... Very apologetic - such a pity that BD's attempt to save too much money results in such badly trained staff setup to fail. Sad

(oh, and the fare price is €16.70 - all inclusive, all taxes, etc - thats what BD chooses to charge me for the fare. More fool them. At such a low fare, I dont expect much, but expect to be given whats promised to me by BD as an uber-loyal passenger.)
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