LGAtoIND
Topic Author
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US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:36 am

I was wondering If US will be expanding to current HP stations that US does not fly into? Since there will be no costs in starting up a new station for 1 or 2 daily flights, these are some HP airports I could see US flying into from PHL/CLT:

JFK, SLC, PDX, OAK, SMF, ONT, YVR, SJC, OKC

Any thoughts?
 
TropicBird
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:44 am

US currently flies into most if not all of those stations you cite via PHX or LAS. For all practical purposes, there is no difference between HP and the old US where it concerns flights and markets i.e., they will not overlap service because they are now "one" carrier as far as markets go.
 
LGAtoIND
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:34 am

I realize that US/HP serves all of those airports now, but I was wondering if nonstops to PHL/CLT will be added.
 
Tornado82
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:51 am

As for JFK, I would think it could be shuttered. US is already in EWR and LGA, and has a token appearance to PHL in ISP.

OKC is the furthest east, and still pretty much out of the 50-seater range from PHL... so it would either be 70 seaters, or just to CLT.

As for the others... PDX and SLC I could see getting an A319 to PHL/CLT possibly... the others I doubt have the unspoken for O&D to go into cold with a mainline jet, and beyond any RJ's reach.
 
usairways85
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:56 am

The point of the Merger was that US would have access to these HP destinations without serving them direct from PHL or CLT. while maybe PHL-PDX or a few others might eventually come along, i doubt we'll ever see PHL/CLT-YVR, SJC, ONT, SMF, OAK
 
ejmmsu
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:09 pm

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 4):
he point of the Merger was that US would have access to these HP destinations without serving them direct from PHL or CLT. while maybe PHL-PDX or a few others might eventually come along, i doubt we'll ever see PHL/CLT-YVR, SJC, ONT, SMF, OAK

Well, if the point was to open these stations without connecting the dots, its really not going to do much good.. Who wants to double-connect to get somewhere when all the competitors offer better routings? For a market like OKC, the merger does absolutely no good. Who is going to fly OKC-PHX-CLT-(insert east coast airport here)? Add three ERJ's daily to CLT though, and you have a real compeitor at OKC, with convenient nationwide reach.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
Tornado82
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:17 pm

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 5):
Who is going to fly OKC-PHX-CLT-(insert east coast airport here)?

Especially when they can go OKC-EWR-___
 
usairways85
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:33 pm

I never listed OKC as not going to receive at least CLT service. But when you can now fly PHL-PHX-OAK, RDU-PHX-OAK, BDL-PHX-OAK, PIT-PHX-OAK, CLE-PHX-OAK, BOS-PHX-OAK(yes i know, pointless with B6 but still), IND-PHX-OAK, MCO-PHX-OAK, TPA-PHX-OAK, BWI-PHX-OAK, DCA-PHX-OAK. With all those routes now possible, a PHL-OAK flight isn't that necessary.
 
iowaman
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:04 pm

Maybe we will see PHL or CLT-OMA?
 
HPRamper
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:10 pm

PDX-PHL has been rumored for a while now
 
gigneil
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:31 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 3):
As for JFK, I would think it could be shuttered.

No it can't. Business travellers from PHX and LAS want nonstops... and there are more than a few.

N
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:46 pm

IIRC, wasn't USAirways going to begin PIT-PDX nonstops in June 2002? I think they stated this in Summer 2001, so obviously 9/11 changed these plans.
I seem to remember something about this.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
 
SonOfACaptain
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:07 pm

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 11):
wasn't USAirways going to begin PIT-PDX nonstops in June 2002?

Yes they were, along with service to PHL. US announced a few cities that summer that never happened because of 9/11.

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
jetboy319
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:24 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 9):
PDX-PHL has been rumored for a while now

I think 2 PDX-PHL roundtrips and 1or2 PDX-CLT roundtrips would be a nice compliment to the current offerings of HP/US in PDX.
 
toltommy
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:38 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 3):
As for JFK, I would think it could be shuttered.

Not if you want connecting traffic to/from Star Alliance partners. Probably will never be a big O&D station, but the int'l connections might make it worthwhile to stay.
 
Azul320
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:48 pm

US and HP must to expand in eachothers stations and figure a way to make it work profitably. Or else I don't know how else the airline will function properly. 200 daily US flights and 3 HP, for example, something must be done. The barbell needs to stand horizontal not one end on the ground and another at an 85 degree angle.
Excuse me, while I kiss the sky
 
ejmmsu
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:40 pm

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 7):
I never listed OKC as not going to receive at least CLT service. But when you can now fly PHL-PHX-OAK, RDU-PHX-OAK, BDL-PHX-OAK, PIT-PHX-OAK, CLE-PHX-OAK, BOS-PHX-OAK(yes i know, pointless with B6 but still), IND-PHX-OAK, MCO-PHX-OAK, TPA-PHX-OAK, BWI-PHX-OAK, DCA-PHX-OAK. With all those routes now possible, a PHL-OAK flight isn't that necessary.

But the point still is, the merger is pointless for these cities, because these are all routes that could have been flown pre-merger. The cities the merger really has a chance to help are cities in middle america. In order for that to happen, some dots need to be connected.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
cslusarc
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:54 pm

the only routes I think that makes sense are:
- YVR-PHL (in co-operation with AC; connecting two Star Alliance Hubs)
- SMF-PHL
- OKC-PHL
- SLC-PHL
- PDX-PHL
- ONT-PHL
--cslusarc from YWG
 
ejmmsu
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:37 pm

Quoting Cslusarc (Reply 17):
he only routes I think that makes sense are:
- YVR-PHL (in co-operation with AC; connecting two Star Alliance Hubs)
- SMF-PHL
- OKC-PHL
- SLC-PHL
- PDX-PHL
- ONT-PHL

Definately with OKC, and to a slightly lesser extent with the other west-coast destinations, I would imagine that they would add CLT first, or at least in tandem with PHL. CLT offers more complete and sensibly located connections.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
usairways85
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:42 pm

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 16):
But the point still is, the merger is pointless for these cities, because these are all routes that could have been flown pre-merger. The cities the merger really has a chance to help are cities in middle america. In order for that to happen, some dots need to be connected.

I don't understand how these routes could have flown pre-merger when US didn't even serve OAK, SMF, ONT, SJC, SLC. Also out of these cities that were listed in the original post and what i based my post off of, which ones are in middle america? None

OKC is likely to receive CLT service
 
PVD757
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:55 pm

There are a handful of markets that are large enough to incorporate into the network better. That is, not having to double connect. (This has been said before):

to be tied into the east network (PHL/CLT)

PDX
SJC
SMF
SLC
AUS
SAT

to be ties into the west network (PHX/LAS)

PVD
BUF
JAX
ORF
BNA
ROC

having said that and before someone jumps down my throat, I know there aren't enough airplanes in the system to do this right now - but there are redundencies that exist (PIT/PHL - PHX/LAS) that could provide a few flights to these new routes.
 
Tornado82
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:36 pm

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 20):
having said that and before someone jumps down my throat, I know there aren't enough airplanes in the system to do this right now - but there are redundencies that exist (PIT/PHL - PHX/LAS) that could provide a few flights to these new routes.

So you're going to take more connecting traffic from PIT, and into PHL... and then add a few transcons into PHL too? Yeah... have fun with that every non-VFR, non light-wind day.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:39 am

Actually, the JFK flights to PHX and LAS do fairly well for HP. Remember, they couldn't serve PHX and LAS from LGA due to permimeter rules. They used to serve the CMH hub from LGA. But when that closed, so did LGA. In order to serve the western hubs from NYC, they would have to keep JFK open.

Also, keep in mind that this won't be like every other US merger/acquisition. US has a bad history of taking over airlines and shuttering hubs and station. But in this case, HP is doing the taking over. This is now an Arizona-based airline with an HP way of thinking.

PHX and LAS will be the last places that things get cut. I'd sleep with one eye open in PIT and CLT though.  Smile

PJ
 
PVD757
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:45 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 21):
So you're going to take more connecting traffic from PIT, and into PHL... and then add a few transcons into PHL too? Yeah... have fun with that every non-VFR, non light-wind day.

No there are duplicate PHL/PIT-PHX/LAS flights on HP/US. This would overfly he need to stop in PHL to get out west reducing the need to have 8 PVD-PHL flights!
 
Tornado82
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:03 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 23):
No there are duplicate PHL/PIT-PHX/LAS flights on HP/US. This would overfly he need to stop in PHL to get out west reducing the need to have 8 PVD-PHL flights!

Those are hub-to-hub runs though, of course there will be duplicates (in the case of PIT I'm pretty sure it's 2x, morning and evening) but getting rid of a PIT-LAS/PHX or even PHL-LAS/PHX is just like putting business on a big silver platter and delivering it to Gary Kelly.
 
ejmmsu
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:04 am

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 19):
I don't understand how these routes could have flown pre-merger when US didn't even serve OAK, SMF, ONT, SJC, SLC. Also out of these cities that were listed in the original post and what i based my post off of, which ones are in middle america? None

They could have easily been flown pre-merger, on HP
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
HPRamper
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:13 am

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 18):
Definately with OKC, and to a slightly lesser extent with the other west-coast destinations, I would imagine that they would add CLT first, or at least in tandem with PHL. CLT offers more complete and sensibly located connections.

PHL makes just as much sense as CLT. The main point would be for PDX originating pax to make the PHL Europe departures...badly needed. It would be a RON flight leaving early in the morning, or possibly even a redeye leaving shortly after midnight. I would like CLT service as well, I just think PHL will come first.

Is a new PHX-CVG route possible? I know the HP system did not serve CVG, but they do fly CMH and CLE. Yeah, Delta runs CVG but I've heard a lot of complaints here on a.net about the exorbitant DL fares due to their control of that market. US Express serves CVG through PHL and CLT, but would a mainline, say A319 flight from PHX succeed?

What about SDF? I know US does pretty well at SDF, would the market support a flight to the west? Even just a 1x daily to start?
 
PVD757
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:22 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 24):
but getting rid of a PIT-LAS/PHX or even PHL-LAS/PHX is just like putting business on a big silver platter and delivering it to Gary Kelly.

there's been a very well establish trend of them doing this already...

...anyway, you're right - the route system is perfect the way it is now and the new USAirways should never add another spoke to it's network, even if you have to double connect in strong demand markets. Just let all those folks ride on a silver platter to WN too.
 
Tornado82
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:25 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 26):
PHL makes just as much sense as CLT.

Not from OKC. US currently has a plethora of 50-seat RJ capacity (good or bad, they've got it, and it ain't going anywhere when you're partially owned by AWAC.) Those 50 seaters aren't going to make PHL-OKC without taking a hit. Look up the road at EWR, CO does it, but only with the 145-XR. So unless you want to dump one of the 70-seat RJ's on OKC-PHL, or mainline (yeah right, this is US we're talking about) it can't economically happen.

However, as outlandish as this may seem, OKC-PIT could work on a 50 seater, yes, that width of PA matters that much. But, far be it for me to suggest US make PIT a Midwest/Great Lakes hub like CO is doing successfully in CLE.
 
usairways85
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:29 am

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 25):
They could have easily been flown pre-merger, on HP

Well now they are available to US fliers.

Only reason i believe OKC will only see CLT at first is the lack of aircraft. My guess is that it won't be a mainline flight. Don't know if there is E170's available for a PHL-OKC route but i'm guessing CLT-OKC would be feasible with a CR7 or CR9.

I'm guessing PHX may see some more East Coast destinations to give them access to the West.
 
Danny
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:30 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 20):
to be ties into the west network (PHX/LAS)

PVD
BUF
JAX
ORF
BNA
ROC

With Southwest already operating BUF-PHX and BUF-LAS I don't think US will enter this market.
 
usairways85
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:37 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 23):
No there are duplicate PHL/PIT-PHX/LAS flights on HP/US. This would overfly he need to stop in PHL to get out west reducing the need to have 8 PVD-PHL flights!

The 8 PHL-PVD flts are there because of the increase demand due to WN's entry in the market.

However, i don't see the point in reducing the number of hub to hub flts. Even if HP dropped 1 or 2 of their PHX-PHL flts US should really add 1 or 2. The point of the merger to allow for more connecting opportunities out of PHX and LAS.
 
HPRamper
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:23 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 30):
With Southwest already operating BUF-PHX and BUF-LAS I don't think US will enter this market.

Because if WN is somewhere, everyone else should stay away huh? I thought this industry lived on competition  Smile
 
PVD757
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:23 am

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 31):
The point of the merger to allow for more connecting opportunities out of PHX and LAS.

thats what I'm trying to say. But because there is such a limited supply of aircraft, US/HP have to be creative to foster more east-west network synergy. The merger, route wise, has offered almost nothing new to either respective airlines previous markets. HP fliers cannot make a single connection routing from PDX to PVD and PVD travelers cannot do the same to OAK. There are dozens of markets like this that US is litterally giving away to just about every other carrier that can provide a 1 stop connection! I'm not debating the challenges in tapping these markets, I'm just pointing out the facts! US is willingly driving transcon passengers onto the competition based on nothing more than a poor route network. I know about the planes, I know that WN serves some of these markets, but what is US going to do about it - apparently nothing!
 
ejmmsu
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:24 am

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 29):
Well now they are available to US fliers.

This is not the point. There really aren't any US frequent fliers on the west coast. There are, however, plenty of HP fliers out west. These were all routes that could have been flown on HP pre-merger, so the merger doesn't do them any good unless some new routes are opened up. This is even more true in middle america.. many stations in the middle of the USA had either only HP, or only US.



At 940 statute miles, a CRJ-200 (yuck!) or ERJ-145 (better) both have the range to fly OKC-CLT

OKC-PHL is 1260 statute miles.

A connection in CLT opens up all of the northeast, southeast, and florida. An OKC-CLT makes a bit more sense than PHL

[Edited 2006-01-26 19:28:53]
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
PVD757
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:31 am

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 34):
This is not the point. There really aren't any US frequent fliers on the west coast. There are, however, plenty of HP fliers out west. These were all routes that could have been flown on HP pre-merger, so the merger doesn't do them any good unless some new routes are opened up. This is even more true in middle america.. many stations in the middle of the USA had either only HP, or only US.

I'm glad someone else sees what I'm trying to talk about...

In most mergers, the 2 airlines get together, trim the excess and re-deploy assets to create synergy for the entire (new) system. I haven't seen any of this, nor even a hint of what the plan is to do anything about it. Why do I care? I like US and they are also the 2nd largest carrier at PVD - the airport that provides me with a job!!!
 
usairways85
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:41 am

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 34):
This is not the point. There really aren't any US frequent fliers on the west coast. There are, however, plenty of HP fliers out west.

So i guess there aren't any US fliers out East that wanted to get to these destinations but could not on US so they opted for other carriers including HP which at that point was a competiting airline but now is apart of US.

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 35):
I haven't seen any of this, nor even a hint of what the plan is to do anything about it

I think as you mentioned the lack of aircraft makes this hard to do. I think once all the US mainline aircraft that are supposed to leave are gone and they decide what the deal is with the E170's or possibly E190's then the airline can start getting down to business. The fact that US east needed the CR9's so bad that they took a good amount of them from the US west system proves the point. But i think we've seen some of this already with the reduction of west coast flying from CLT and PIT. If i am not mistaken a few flts here and there have been cut from CLT to the West maybe even one or two from PHL.
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:11 am

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 34):
many stations in the middle of the USA had either only HP, or only US.

There are exactly 38 stations that had both US Airways (or US Airways Express) and America West (or America West Express), namely Atlanta, Baltimore, Boston, Chicago-O'Hare, Cleveland, Columbus, Cancun, Dallas/Fort Worth, Denver, Detroit, Fort Lauderdale, Hartford/Springfield, Houston-Intercontinental, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Memphis, Mexico City, Miami, Milwaukee, Minneapolis/St. Paul, New Orleans, Newark, Orlando, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Raleigh/Durham, St. Louis, San Diego, San Francisco, San Jose (Costa Rica), Seattle, Tampa/St. Petersburg, Toronto, Washington-Dulles, and Washington-National.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
Whataboutme
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:40 am

I would love to see a CLT-RNO non-stop.
 
jetboy319
Posts: 210
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:22 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 33):
PVD travelers cannot do the same to OAK

While I see your point, and believe both PVD and MHT will eventually see the routes, I doubt that US/HP will be introducing MHT/PVD-PHX/LAS anytime soon. While US may be the largest carrier at PVD, PVD isn't very big and US already has a large operation at Logan, one that offers a whole lot more in terms of nonstop options. I really can't stand Logan Airport, and I would love nothing more than to see US grow at PVD and MHT, but Logan isn't all that inconvenient anymore, and aside from the cost for parking, it is becoming very competitive with fares (ie: BOS-PDX $109 each way B6....CHEAP!!).
In addition, they would be going head to head with WN, which already offers one-stop connections for those at PVD/MHT wanting to go to OAK or just about any other west coast destination.  Smile
 
iowaman
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:55 am

Quoting Whataboutme (Reply 38):
I would love to see a CLT-RNO non-stop.

Doubt it will happen, it's a long route that would take up an aircraft a good chunk of the day and notoriously low yield.
 
gift4tbone
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:28 am

In general, I think US' expansion into the west (from the east) is more important. Becuase US was based on the east, and serves almost every east coast market. And HP has the west in its palm so to speak.

I do however, wonder why when they merged they got rid of, or delayed some aircraft orders? Couldn't they use them now to connect the dots?

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 32):
Quoting Danny (Reply 30):
With Southwest already operating BUF-PHX and BUF-LAS I don't think US will enter this market.

Because if WN is somewhere, everyone else should stay away huh? I thought this industry lived on competition

Well, since HP(USwest) is running the show this time, I doubt we'll see US running from WN like we saw before (i.e. BWI). HP has been competing well in WN markets, and i believe US will continue to do so.

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 36):
The fact that US east needed the CR9's so bad that they took a good amount of them from the US west system proves the point.

Oh great, once again, US is taking from the west for the east. BUT this time we know it won't end up like the rest of em.

-Tony@PVD
Top 3 airports: PVD 23.9%(138 flights), PHL 14.7%(85 flights), PHX 10.2%(59 flights)
 
CentPIT
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:30 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 28):
However, as outlandish as this may seem, OKC-PIT could work on a 50 seater, yes, that width of PA matters that much. But, far be it for me to suggest US make PIT a Midwest/Great Lakes hub like CO is doing successfully in CLE.

What are you thinking, saying a thing like that?  Wow!

In my opinion they need to add some of those smaller Midwest cities back to the PIT network. Everyone that I talk to says PHL is a mess. Eliminating some of the Express flights there could help them with on-time performance.
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
Tornado82
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:36 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 42):
Everyone that I talk to says PHL is a mess. Eliminating some of the Express flights there could help them with on-time performance.

Exactly, and if you're going.. oh I don't know... something random like PVD-IND, PIT is alot more on the way than PHL is, but yet there are 8x PVD-PHL flights. I'd love to know the O&D % on routes like PVD-PHL, because God knows the O&D %'s on some other runway-plugging flights like ABE, MDT, AVP, etc. are nil. PVD-PHL would survive @ 5x as long as PVD was equally served still. I'm not just picking on PVD though... that was just the random example that popped into my head because it was mentioned earlier on this thread.
 
usairways85
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:43 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 43):
I'd love to know the O&D % on routes like PVD-PHL

I know you just picked PVD randomlly but since WN entered the market the O&D PHL-PVD has gone up like 200% or some outrageous number.

But you are right, there certainly doesn't need to be as many express flts into PHL as there are. And if baffles me why management has decreased mainline flts from PHL and added a couple dozen express flts. And they wonder why people complain about delays and misconnects.
 
Tornado82
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Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:04 am

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 44):
I know you just picked PVD randomlly but since WN entered the market the O&D PHL-PVD has gone up like 200% or some outrageous number.

That's well and good, and I know blah blah Southwest effect, the same effect that causes traffic LOSSES at neighboring airports.. in the case of PHL WN dropped traffic at neighboring ABE by 18% vs '04 as they grew their PHL ops, but that's a different story.

My question was the % of pax in those PHL-PVD flights on USAirways that are O&D, versus connecting, and in those cases then which directions they're connecting. It many of those types of cases, especially now with HP, the overall mileage flown will be less if they connect through PIT. Say you've got a CASM of 10 cents per mile.... save 100 miles of flying for that pax and still get him to the exact point he wants to go to (in probably less time) and you've got a savings in costs to US of $10 per passenger. Add that up, with the dozens of city-pairs that can work on, and you've suddenly got a quite large chunk of cost savings. That doesn't take into count that PIT naturally will have less misconnects (less ATC delayed flights leading to them) therefore less costs to US in that regard too.

Now excuse me, while I don my flame proof suit, because I'm sure the flames are on their way for that post.
 
CentPIT
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:36 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 45):
My question was the % of pax in those PHL-PVD flights on USAirways that are O&D, versus connecting, and in those cases then which directions they're connecting. It many of those types of cases, especially now with HP, the overall mileage flown will be less if they connect through PIT. Say you've got a CASM of 10 cents per mile.... save 100 miles of flying for that pax and still get him to the exact point he wants to go to (in probably less time) and you've got a savings in costs to US of $10 per passenger. Add that up, with the dozens of city-pairs that can work on, and you've suddenly got a quite large chunk of cost savings. That doesn't take into count that PIT naturally will have less misconnects (less ATC delayed flights leading to them) therefore less costs to US in that regard too.

Why don't people that can connect through PIT do it then because we still have PVD service. Are they connecting in that mess to get more mileage?


Does anybody truly know if US will be adding any destinations from PIT?
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
Tornado82
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:52 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 46):

Why don't people that can connect through PIT do it then because we still have PVD service. Are they connecting in that mess to get more mileage?

If it's anything like ABE... they (typically) make it significantly cheaper to connect through PHL, even if you are going to a destination like IND where PIT is on the way as compared to PHL. Considering they justify their rates through PHL from PVD based on WN running the route... I'm sure the same holds true there. Not to mention that when PVD has several times more frequencies to PHL than PIT, there's just more flexibility going down there.

But I wouldn't fly a noisy rattletrap Colgan Saab out to PIT from here anyways
 
CentPIT
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:50 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 47):
But I wouldn't fly a noisy rattletrap Colgan Saab out to PIT from here anyways

Well, it seems as if the Saabs are being used on fewer routes than in the past so maybe they are going to get rid of a few? Just an observation.
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
Tornado82
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RE: US Expansion To Current HP Stations

Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:09 pm

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 48):

Well, it seems as if the Saabs are being used on fewer routes than in the past so maybe they are going to get rid of a few? Just an observation.

IMO, the problem isn't so much with the plane as the operator, too. I'd place Colgan well below Airliners.net's favorite whipping boy, Mesa. US has too many routes that need props of that size, just ABE-PIT isn't one, and that's not the plane for servicing that size-class either.... IMOO (In my other opinon) US should be looking for Q400's before acquiring the services of more CR7/E70/E90/CR9's.