treeny
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:30 am

Passenger Intervention 9/11

Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:52 pm

Around a week ago in Argentina I was watching a program about 9/11 on the History Channel. It concentrated very much on inside the aeroplanes and the actions and emotions mainly of the crew. It was a very interesting yet chilling insight into their final hours or so.

They heaped a lot of praise on the actions of the cabin crew for how they managed the passengers and kept them calm by declaring a medical emergency.

Now heres where my thread kicks off.

Part of me says that the actions of the crew were correct and part of me says they were not.

My argument on the against side is that, tragically, crew and passengers were banged to rights anyway so would there have been any harm in the crew selecting passengers who they thought could fight the terroists and letting them loose for want of a better term. Surely if they HAD have over powered them at least there was the smallest chance the plane would have landed somewhere some how. (Someone here will quote that last bit and say impossible but I believe when faced with death anything is possible).

On the plus side for their actions, of course no body knew what they were going to do but then if they had killed crew members then surely it was obvious there was something a little more calculated.....

My last point is that the plane which crashed into field was the only plane where passengers actually were 'allowed' to challenge these guys and look what happened. They lost their lives but saved countless....

PLEASE NOTE that this is only a personal opinion - If it had been me I would want to have known and maybe try challenging them and not have been kept in the dark.

Of course as humans we never quite know what we would do in this situation and the crews followed all of their training and did a great job thats not to be denied.

Thanks for reading and I am interested on any other opinions about this.

All the best

Mark
 
bennett123
Posts: 7462
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Passenger Intervention 9/11

Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:19 pm

The main problem, is that most hijacks pre 9/11 ended with no/little loss of life.
 
atmx2000
Posts: 4301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: Passenger Intervention 9/11

Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:24 pm

Quoting Treeny (Thread starter):
On the plus side for their actions, of course no body knew what they were going to do but then if they had killed crew members then surely it was obvious there was something a little more calculated.....

My last point is that the plane which crashed into field was the only plane where passengers actually were 'allowed' to challenge these guys and look what happened. They lost their lives but saved countless....

It's not the first time crew has been killed. If you are on that plane you don't know what is going on, and you certainly aren't expecting that the hijackers are going to kill themselves based on past precedent. And it's not an issue of being allowed to challege the hijackers. It was knowing what was going on in the outside world and other hijackings through conversations with family.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
Gr8Circle
Posts: 2389
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:44 am

RE: Passenger Intervention 9/11

Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:41 am

The bigger question is that in any future hijacking (and though it sounds unpalatable, it's bound to happen some time or the other), how should passengers / crew react...? Assume that there is going to be a suicidal crash and try to overcome the hijackers at any cost, or be calm and hope that nothing untoward will happen?
 
zchannel
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:49 am

RE: Passenger Intervention 9/11

Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:27 am

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 1):
The main problem, is that most hijacks pre 9/11 ended with no/little loss of life.

American Airline pilots had been instructed to give in to all hijacker demands since all aircraft hijackings up until 9/11 were for political reasons and ended with, as Bennett123 stated, little or no loss of life. This is the reason 9/11 was so successful from the hijacker's standpoint. No one in America fathomed such an attack could happen. As horrible as a day as 9/11 was, the plan itself was brilliant. Once, however, the true nature of the hijackings came to light, the gov't considered shooting the last plane under hijacker control down, but the passengers of UA flight 93 took action before that could transpire.

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 3):
Assume that there is going to be a suicidal crash and try to overcome the hijackers at any cost, or be calm and hope that nothing untoward will happen?

You can bet that this style of attack will never be successful again, because if it were attempted, the hijackers would be defeated because the crew and passengers would have a good idea of the hijacker's intentions and would strike back before they could gain control of the plane in question. Hell, I know I would fight back...

Edited for grammar

[Edited 2006-01-27 20:29:49]
ZChannel: Member FDIC
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Passenger Intervention 9/11

Sat Jan 28, 2006 5:37 am

Michael Moore came out with some comments about passenger resistance not long after 9/11. He said, in effect, that if more of the passengers on the hijacked airliners had been black men, the World Trade Center would still be standing. You probably can find his actual comments easily enough through a Google search.

Note: please do not flame me, I am merely pointing out what Moore said, without expessing any opinion as to whether I agree or disagree with him.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
SFOMB67
Posts: 371
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:20 pm

RE: Passenger Intervention 9/11

Sat Jan 28, 2006 5:53 am

The situation on 9/11 set a precedent. I compare this to a bank teller during a bank robbery. I'm sure most any tellers or patrons in a bank will not confront bank robbers with weapons, as they expect them to take the money and run. However, if 4 banks were held up in one morning and the robbers killed everyone in the bank, I would expect things to change during the next robbery.
Not as easy as originally perceived
 
rdynyc
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:55 am

RE: Passenger Intervention 9/11

Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:45 am

There is suppose to be another program detailing the event on the aircraft on that flight. Does anybody know the name of the program and network?
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: Passenger Intervention 9/11

Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:29 am

What really bothers me is how come nobody in the "intelligence community" did not for see this happening. Lets face, it suicide terrorists are now a new thing. They have been loading truck with explosives and blowing themselves and others up for decades. It was just a matter of time before they used an airliner. You may not believe me but I predicted it. How many people with MS flight sim crashed the 737 into the tallest building they could find just to see what would happen. We need to stop using past events as our model of terrorist prevention (like the shoe bomber) and start getting proactive in our terrorist prevention strategy. I toured the FedEx facility in Memphis and the one thing I was amazed at was how easy it would be to hijack one of their planes. Apart form the metal detector at the main gate I found no other security procedures in effect that would keep a person from stowing away on a freighter and latter taking control of it. If another 911 type attack comes about look for it to be a cargo plane or large private 737 or 757. I personally have flown on privately owned 737s and there is NO security at private air terminals if you own a plane.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 3943
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

RE: Passenger Intervention 9/11

Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:35 pm

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 8):
there is NO security at private air terminals if you own a plane.

Ahhhh don't be fooled by what you don't know.....I am sure there are other pilots of corporate aircraft on this site that would verify there is security, much of it goes not noticed which is exactly how it should be.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
SFOMB67
Posts: 371
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:20 pm

RE: Passenger Intervention 9/11

Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:03 pm

Quoting RDYNYC (Reply 7):
There is suppose to be another program detailing the event on the aircraft on that flight. Does anybody know the name of the program and network?

A&E had a 1hr program tonite about the people that were supposed to be on flt 93, but missed it or changed their plans. I only caught part of it, but they were advertising a premier program about flt 93 to be shown on A&E Monday.
Not as easy as originally perceived