md90fan
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CO Expansion?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:32 am

I was wondering when all the work is done at CLE, will CO add some new routes from CLE? Maybe connect the dots a bit or add some more turboprop routes? Also what new routes will CO add from LAX to Mexico on COEX? Any CO route rumors, anything in the pipeline?

Devan the MD-90 fan  airplane 
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
md90fan
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RE: CO Expansion?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:53 am

Anybody know anything about what's going on at CO?
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
Max Q
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RE: CO Expansion?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:59 am

Pretty quiet lately, no new routes announced since Copenhagen and Cologne, still hoping for Shanghai next year with the arival of 2 more 777's, maybe more?

You might see something happen after/ if the flight attenants ratify their new contract and we can get a better idea of our future cost structure.

We need more widebodies yesterday!
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
Cory6188
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RE: CO Expansion?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:09 am

And how have their new international routes been performing?

I know that IAH-EZE was a major success from day one, but EWR-DEL and EWR-PEK have gotten off to a somewhat slow start. What about ARN, TXL, BRS, BFS, etc.?
 
toxtethogrady
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RE: CO Expansion?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:01 am

So far CO has made very few announcements, but it looks like they're boosting flights into IAH starting next month, mostly with RJ's. No new markets beyond EZE and a couple of new points in the Caribbean. As for Newark and Cleveland, the numbers may be up, but not by very much.

The international passenger counts out of IAH have been knocked down following Hurricane Wilma's visit to the Yucatan. Numbers were flat in November. But it seems like CAL should be resuming the Mexican campaign; there are a half-dozen cities that could support service to.

There's a presentation to investors on CAL's website the talks about this year's planned capacity increases in percentage terms, but no big market announcements. Don't expect CAL to make any major additions to its domestic route system.
 
klwright69
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RE: CO Expansion?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:19 am

Quoting Toxtethogrady (Reply 4):
But it seems like CAL should be resuming the Mexican campaign; there are a half-dozen cities that could support service to.

You mean new cities in Mexico? I thought CO already flew into all of them!
 
CB777
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RE: CO Expansion?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:24 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 2):
Pretty quiet lately, no new routes announced since Copenhagen and Cologne, still hoping for Shanghai next year with the arival of 2 more 777's, maybe more?

Maybe pick up some 777LRS........ Big grin
 
TokyoNarita
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RE: CO Expansion?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:32 am

Quote:
EWR-DEL and EWR-PEK have gotten off to a somewhat slow start.

I somehow predict this is only going to get better...EWR-DEL is the only non-stop from the east coast...and If I was an American businessman trying to go to China from NY area, and given a choice between Air China's JFK-PEK and CO's EWR-PEK it would be CO hands down.

TokyoNarita.
 
Falcon84
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RE: CO Expansion?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:43 am

Quoting MD90fan (Thread starter):
I was wondering when all the work is done at CLE, will CO add some new routes from CLE? Maybe connect the dots a bit or add some more turboprop routes?

I think you might see some prop expansion in '06, and, after the Concourse C apron project is done-presumably by the end of this year, you might see some RJ expansion, and maybe even a bit of mainline expansion.

There is the possibility that Regions Air may be added as a CO Connection carrier out of CLE to places like Jamestown, NW, Morgantown, WV, Marietta, OH/Parkersburg, VA, and maybe some more routes. There was a thread on Regions Air trying to tie in with CO on here not long ago.

I've also heard that Commutair wants to add capacity out of CLE-even a rumor about a 50-seat turboprop that could open some new markets, or maybe replace some RJ markets.

And the new Mayor of CLE, Frank Jackson, has asked CO to consider CLE-AMS, at least seasonally, which would be a logical tie-in with SkyTeam in Europe.

Nothing concrete on any of this, but at least there's some talk out there.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
klwright69
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RE: CO Expansion?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:48 am

Regarding domestic service with RJ's out of IAH.....

CO should reinstate their third BFL flight, add FAT-IAH, and BUR-IAH. They should even attempt IAH-LGB (if slots could be had). I know CO likes to emphasize service to LAX, however I think service to the above markets would diversify CO's presence in California.
 
klwright69
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RE: CO Expansion?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:53 am

Since DL is initiating TLV service, CO will now have a U.S. carrier competing with it to Israel. Hence CO needs to finally stop delaying, and initiate Moscow service. DL needs the competition there.
 
nateDAL
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RE: CO Expansion?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:56 am

Any chance of IAH-SCL?

That would fill a big hole in their growing Latin American network.
Set Love Free
 
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airportugal310
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RE: CO Expansion?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:47 am

Rumor on the streets here in Boston is that CO is not happy with Colgan flying out of IAH and is possibly looking for someone to take over....

I am thinking possibly Cape Air with ATR42's, which (we) have been successful with out in Guam thus far...

It was just a rumor and I dont know the truth in it.
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
MAH4546
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RE: CO Expansion?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:53 am

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 3):
I know that IAH-EZE was a major success from day one,

Any Buenos Aires flight launched in December is going to fill. The real test will come in April, when LF's to Argentina traditionally start to drop off very heavily.
a.
 
joeman
Posts: 647
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RE: CO Expansion?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:09 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 8):
the new Mayor of CLE, Frank Jackson, has asked CO to consider CLE-AMS, at least seasonally, which would be a logical tie-in with SkyTeam in Europe.

That's good to know. I believe I like him, he must recognize CO's value to CLE...
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: CO Expansion?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:14 am

Quoting AirPortugal310 (Reply 12):
Rumor on the streets here in Boston is that CO is not happy with Colgan flying out of IAH and is possibly looking for someone to take over....

Love that rumor....Cape Air is a good fit in FL markets they are used and the Guam operations are good so the rumor mill says. Would be nice to get SkyWest back with their E120's at IAH, that was a great fit. Colgan....SF34.....mmmm
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: CO Expansion?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:02 pm

Quoting Toxtethogrady (Reply 4):
So far CO has made very few announcements, but it looks like they're boosting flights into IAH starting next month, mostly with RJ's. No new markets beyond EZE and a couple of new points in the Caribbean. As for Newark and Cleveland, the numbers may be up, but not by very much.

Looks like CRW is getting its morning departure and evening arrival back to/from IAH next month.
 
CALMSP
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RE: CO Expansion?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:29 pm

we probably haven't made any new announcements b/c of the FA's.......a lot does depend on their willingness to come to the other side of the table like the rest of us.
 
CO7e7
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RE: CO Expansion?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:40 pm

Quoting Klwright69 (Reply 10):
Since DL is initiating TLV service, CO will now have a U.S. carrier competing with it to Israel. Hence CO needs to finally stop delaying, and initiate Moscow service. DL needs the competition there.

I agree. But how much do you think CO is going to be affected by DL's service to TLV ??
 
Wargo7772
Posts: 15
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RE: CO Expansion?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:51 pm

Quoting CB777 (Reply 6):
Maybe pick up some 777LRS

They don't need the -200LRS. The -200ERS work fine for them. Don't expect any US carriers to order the -200LR anytime soon.
 
TokyoNarita
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RE: CO Expansion?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:55 pm

Quote:
I agree. But how much do you think CO is going to be affected by DL's service to TLV ??

Quite a bit I think...Now a passenger traveling west of EWR/ATL line from TLV will have an option of flying Delta into ATL and connect to their final destinations...include Florida and the south as well...and vice versa.

TokyoNarita.

[Edited 2006-01-29 05:06:08]
 
sdkualeb
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RE: CO Expansion?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:17 pm

Pretty soon you will see CO expand there hubs to DEN,ORD,IAD,LAX,SFO
 
flyguy595
Posts: 52
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RE: CO Expansion?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:16 pm

Quoting Sdkualeb (Reply 21):
Pretty soon you will see CO expand there hubs to DEN,ORD,IAD,LAX,SFO

Sounds like United's Network, any connection I have seen lots of speculation minus the entire 737 fleet diference of a merger or something along those lines it would be interesting to see
 
ludavid777
Posts: 111
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RE: CO Expansion?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:28 pm

I was talking to a CO flight attendant the other day.... this is old news.... this "merger" talk has been around for years at least since 2001. Not going to happen IMO.
 
cslusarc
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RE: CO Expansion?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:54 pm

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 3):
but EWR-DEL and EWR-PEK have gotten off to a somewhat slow start.

- Is this because CO lacks a significant codeshare partner in each of India and China to feed the flights on the DEL and PEK ends with connecting pax?

I really think that the major barrier to CO continuing its enormous international growth is the lack of long haul aircraft such as the 763ER, 764ER and the 772ER/LR.
--cslusarc from YWG
 
soundsfishy
Posts: 27
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RE: CO Expansion?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:05 am

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 3):
I know that IAH-EZE was a major success from day one, but EWR-DEL and EWR-PEK have gotten off to a somewhat slow start.

I had the understanding that DEL is doing pretty well and the route is already profitable.

Quoting Cslusarc (Reply 24):
I really think that the major barrier to CO continuing its enormous international growth is the lack of long haul aircraft such as the 763ER, 764ER and the 772ER/LR.

No question about it.
 
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mbm3
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RE: CO Expansion?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:09 am

Beyond the new routes already announce, I have been told that there will most likely not be any new destinations from EWR to Europe. Any expansion will be additional frequencies using the 757s, all of which are being reconfured with BusinessFirst cabins.

The addition of the 753s from ATA, errr Boeing, will have a trickle down effect throughout the system and could allow for new routes from all three hubs. Given the number of ERJs that have been and will be delivered, I think CoEx will show the most expansion.

As for my home hub of CLE, CO has repeated expressed their support and appreciation. Given a different environment within the industry, I think you would see a lot more routes out of CLE. Unfortunately, times are tough and CO will move equipment they have to where it makes the most money (EWR and IAH). We might get some new CoEx and CO Connection flights, but it does not look like any new mainline destinations in the near future. CLE-AMS has been discussed and is being reviewed - it makes great sense for connections on both ends but, like anything else, CO will do whatever makes the best business sense.
Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
 
masseybrown
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RE: CO Expansion?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:18 am

Quoting Mbm3 (Reply 26):
We might get some new CoEx and CO Connection flights,

It's interesting to me that Regions is begging CO for a codeshare, and bringing captive EAS cities with it, while CO seems in no rush to agree. I'm not sure why they'd sneer at a couple hundred feed pax a day from cities with no possibility of a low-cost competition, but they must have their reasons. I hope they're good ones.
 
klwright69
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RE: CO Expansion?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:02 am

Quoting Sdkualeb (Reply 21):
Pretty soon you will see CO expand there hubs to DEN,ORD,IAD,LAX,SFO

Really?? Please elaborate...
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: CO Expansion?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:21 am

Quoting Mbm3 (Reply 26):
the 757s, all of which are being reconfured with BusinessFirst cabins.

To clarify, it's only the -200s which will have that configuration.

The 753s are getting an expanded premium cabin, but it's just domestic-F
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
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mbm3
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RE: CO Expansion?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:22 am

Quoting Sdkualeb (Reply 21):
Pretty soon you will see CO expand there hubs to DEN,ORD,IAD,LAX,SFO

I was told that CO does not feel that a merger makes good business sense as it is too difficult to merge all of the systems and personnel. It was agreed that the networks do fit nicely together in a lot of ways, but it just was not a smart idea to proceed.
Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
 
WesternA318
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RE: CO Expansion?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:56 am

"I was told that CO does not feel that a merger makes good business sense as it is too difficult to merge all of the systems and personnel. It was agreed that the networks do fit nicely together in a lot of ways, but it just was not a smart idea to proceed."

And if Frank Lorenzo still ran CO, this would likely happen and then CO would have the same problems, only moreso, they had in 1987. Thank the heavens CO has a good management team now...
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
toxtethogrady
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RE: CO Expansion?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:08 pm

"You mean new cities in Mexico? I thought CO already flew into all of them!"

Just the other day, I found out Avolar was starting service to Cuernavaca, Tepic, Uruapan and Hermosillo. With A320's. There are a few CO has missed.
 
ejmmsu
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RE: CO Expansion?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:07 pm

I would love to see CO start IAH-SPS, with SPS being the largest market in Texas that does not get CO service.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
jacobin777
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RE: CO Expansion?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:50 pm

Quoting CB777 (Reply 6):
Maybe pick up some 777LRS........  biggrin 

I second that notion... bigthumbsup 

Quoting Wargo7772 (Reply 19):
They don't need the -200LRS. The -200ERS work fine for them. Don't expect any US carriers to order the -200LR anytime soon.

if their EWR-DEL route is doing as well as its claimed, they could use some -200LR's for say EWR-BOM, IAH-DEL, IAH-BOM....all which would probably require a -200LR...

Quoting Sdkualeb (Reply 21):
Pretty soon you will see CO expand there hubs to DEN,ORD,IAD,LAX,SFO

can't really consider SFO or ORD a hub...as both SFO and ORD basically has EWR, IAH, and CLE as its routes

Quoting Soundsfishy (Reply 25):

I had the understanding that DEL is doing pretty well and the route is already profitable.



Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 3):
but EWR-DEL and EWR-PEK have gotten off to a somewhat slow start.

while I dont know how their EWR-PEK or IAH-PEK flights are doing, according to this article, their EWR-DEL (as well as AA's ORD-DEL) flight is doing very well...

"The non-stop service India-US is seeing over 80 per cent load factor and will be a boon to Air-India, they observed."

http://www.business-standard.com/com...lselect=1&chklogin=N&autono=213298
"Up the Irons!"
 
102IAHexpress
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RE: CO Expansion?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:52 pm

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 33):
I would love to see CO start IAH-SPS, with SPS being the largest market in Texas that does not get CO service

I also would love to see CO enter the SPS market, but realistically if it ever does happen I doubt it will be a CO mainline flight. In the short term AmericanEagle has SPS service pretty much well covered with their Saabs.
.
.
I can always hope for CO to announce some new international routes out of IAH, but that’s seems unlikely until some more wide-bodies are delivered. EWR on the other hand always has potential for expansion via 757s.
You guys have any thoughts on CO adding flights to underserved French cities? Seems like there could be potential in CO expanding in France much like they did in the UK.
 
ejmmsu
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RE: CO Expansion?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:02 pm

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 35):
I also would love to see CO enter the SPS market, but realistically if it ever does happen I doubt it will be a CO mainline flight. In the short term AmericanEagle has SPS service pretty much well covered with their Saabs.

I certainly agree. I was broadly using CO to describe CO and its express partners.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
B4REAL
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RE: CO Expansion?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:11 pm

Quoting Klwright69 (Reply 9):
And the new Mayor of CLE, Frank Jackson, has asked CO to consider CLE-AMS, at least seasonally, which would be a logical tie-in with SkyTeam in Europe.

Typical politician talk. USA-AMS is already overserved by many counts. I think CDG would be a better fit for CLE and for SkyTeam!
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
slider
Posts: 6805
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: CO Expansion?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:26 am

Quoting Klwright69 (Reply 10):
Hence CO needs to finally stop delaying, and initiate Moscow service. DL needs the competition there.

On the docket, but indefinitely delayed for many reasons. Airport selection being one, Skyteam xfer traffic another, local, um, political, issues shall we say another, and lastly the most obvious factor which affects CO's expansion everywhere is the fleet issue. We're jsut fleeted out bigtime until more A/C come on line.

Quoting AirPortugal310 (Reply 12):
Rumor on the streets here in Boston is that CO is not happy with Colgan flying out of IAH and is possibly looking for someone to take over....

Pure rumor- Colgan is doing great and their operation is light years better than OO's was at IAH. Just upgrading from the Brasilias to the Saabs was positive from an operating standpoint. They're doing well.