md90fan
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Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:18 pm

I was wondering, when will Bahamasair wake up and smell the coffee and acquire some type of modern planes  wink ? The 732 are old and tired and everybody on the MIA/FLL-NAS runs has more modern equipment ( except Fly First Class)  frown . Are they considering any modern equipment? Could something like this work?:

x4 A319/735/E190 for existing routes such as NAS-FPO/FLL/MIA/PLS/SDQ(?) and potential routes like NAS-BWI/PAP/PHL/JFK?

A couple of DASH-8 Q400's to free up jets(if they are still there) on FPO-MIA/FLL. And add capacity on NAS-MHH/SML-LGI/FPO/ and maybe GGT and ELH. And start NAS-CAP/TPA/ATL, PLS-FLL with existing -300's
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garpd
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Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:32 pm

Currently they're being offered an extremely good deal by Embraer. I'm not at liberty to say what it entails, but lets just say that if the managment would just say yes, their problems would be long gone. Right now, it's all up in the air.

Airbus are a no go. An evaluation has shown that the A319's would be too expensive in the long run as would a 737NG oddly enough.

The EMB170-195 looks to be the best solution and is precisely what Embraer are trying to sell them.


The thing thats making it all complicated is that Bahamasair are in the middle of a management reshuffle. Unfortunately it looks as if the new boss is keen to keep things as they are.  banghead 
We're trying to convince him of the wisdom of the deal that Embraer are offering.

[Edited 2006-01-29 07:44:32]
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Delta767300ER
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Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:34 pm

I flew them from FLL-NAS/NAS-FLL back in 01 on their 732's. Other than not having First Class, the a/c were extremely clean, flight crew was friendly, and they were On-Time. I'm biased though cause I like those old noisy 737-200's.

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flymia
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Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:56 pm

Quoting Delta767300ER (Reply 2):
I flew them from FLL-NAS/NAS-FLL back in 01 on their 732's. Other than not having First Class, the a/c were extremely clean, flight crew was friendly, and they were On-Time. I'm biased though cause I like those old noisy 737-200's.

I agree with that, I flew them a while back MIA-NAS-MIA 732 and everything was great. A nice short flight in a nice good old classic bird. I love seeing that plane fly around. I just wonder how it is to be a Bahamasair 737 pilot only flying to NAS,MIA,FLL and MCO all day all pretty much short flights. I wonder if there pilots are Bahamian?
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
Delta767300ER
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Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:11 pm

FlyMia, I'm glad I'm not the only one who enjoyed BahamasAir. I guess it would be pretty cool flying short flights all the time, you wouldnt get bored. Both Pilots on both trips I took were Bahamian.

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md90fan
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:40 am

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 3):
I wonder if there pilots are Bahamian?

Yes, at least some of them are. but on a few occasions there have been some sick outs  silly 

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 3):
MCO

I thought it was an all DASH-8 station?

Well I hope UP tries to take advantage of whatever deal Embraer offers them.

EMB-195 can replace 732 and be used busiest stations like MIA,FLL,FPO,PLS

EMB-170AR can supplement DASH-8 on island routes such as MHH,SML-LGI(If it can at 3700 ft  silly  ),Matthew Town, GGT and ELH. And maybe can be used on FPO-FLL/MIA. New routes can be PAP,JFK and BWI  wink 
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TransIsland
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:42 am

The true problem is that the routes on which UP utilises its jets would be better served by turboprops. However, turboprops don't have the cargo capacity that UP needs because we all go shopping crazy whenever we visit Florida; often the 732s have to leave luggage behind. I don't think there is an easy solution to their fleet problem.

What annoys me more is the route problem. UP has way too many employees, but the government can't get rid of them for fear of losing the next election. If you want to put these employees to some good use, you might want to consider expanding your operations, but UP doesn't dare to. Why can't they fly further north than Central/South Florida??

Then of course there's the financial situation. On one hand the government is not willing to downsize the airline (and forget management here for a moment, the UP management is on the tightest leash ever invented), on the other hand, if UP were to expand, they'd need government money to do so, which they won't get. I hear that one of their four 732s is going to be scrapped soon to keep the other three flying - at least that's what a newspaper article here in Nassau said last month, though it wasn't clear why it would be necessary to scrap one plane. They said something about D (?) checks and Bahamasair only being able to afford such a check for one plane, while two planes need them now/are overdue.
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md90fan
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:11 am

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 6):
The true problem is that the routes on which UP utilises its jets would be better served by turboprops. However, turboprops don't have the cargo capacity that UP needs because we all go shopping crazy whenever we visit Florida; often the 732s have to leave luggage behind. I don't think there is an easy solution to their fleet problem.

Yeah, the short Florida hops might be better off with DASH-8 Q400 on them, alsoit would be easier to churn a profit off the DASH.

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 6):
What annoys me more is the route problem. UP has way too many employees, but the government can't get rid of them for fear of losing the next election. If you want to put these employees to some good use, you might want to consider expanding your operations, but UP doesn't dare to. Why can't they fly further north than Central/South Florida??

I always ask myself that question  Sad well they now fly NAS-KIN and MHH-FLL. I would like to see the Cuba charters and Haiti flights come in the future. And what happened with PLS-FLL? Didnt they say they wanted to fly that route?
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StarGoldLHR
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:44 am

My best memory of Bahamas Air...


Arriving at 07.00am for an 08.30 flight to be told it was oversold.
Waiting until 2100 for a space on the last flight and virtually press-ganging myself amongst the crowd of other oversold waiting list passengers to get on the plane.


However once on the plane...

seeing hand painted no smoking signs on the cabin walls, with hand written "No Smoking".

I recall the cabin staff having a combined age less than that of the plane.

Finally landing at NAS, we used every bit of the runway from begining to end as well as making use of the prevailing wind and rain, passengers holding their breath and the pilot peddling backwards just to get the plane to stop.

After stopping the fish swam back towards the shore, musicians started playing again and the bathroom went into overtime.
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slawko
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:13 am

I understand that there is a new US investor financed operation getting ready to spool up. There is apperantly a deal in the works to slowly shut down Bahamasair, and transfer operations to the new company, with eventual plans for some larger longhaul flying.
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APFPilot1985
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:36 am

I hope they aren't getting rid of them, I really like their livery and they are one of my favorite to shoot at MIA


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TransIsland
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:42 am

Quoting Slawko (Reply 9):
I understand that there is a new US investor financed operation getting ready to spool up. There is apperantly a deal in the works to slowly shut down Bahamasair, and transfer operations to the new company, with eventual plans for some larger longhaul flying.

Problem 1: Gov't wouldn't survive the loss of jobs

Problem 2: Gov't insists on a national flag carrier where they hold 51%, and no sensible investor would agree to that. However, I can understand the gov't, too, as no private company would keep up regular air service to some of smaller islands. What UP should do, though, is to get a couple of Islanders to fly there rather than send Dash-8s.
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Falcon Flyer
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:48 am

Could acquiring B737-400s or -500s be a short term solution pending a permanent decision ? With the cargo and baggage issues, are the E-Jets a viable option ?
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Sabena332
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:55 am

Quoting Falcon flyer (Reply 12):
With the cargo and baggage issues, are the E-Jets a viable option ?

I was thinking exactly the same, Embraers could actually replace the 732's but I have no idea regarding the cargo issue either.

Patrick
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garpd
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:06 am

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 10):
I hope they aren't getting rid of them, I really like their livery and they are one of my favorite to shoot at MIA

Can't help but post a big cheesy grin for that comment. Makes me happy to hear that.  Big grin
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garpd
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:08 am

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 13):
I was thinking exactly the same, Embraers could actually replace the 732's but I have no idea regarding the cargo issue either.

Patrick

The study conducted seems to show the EMB195 would be an effective replacement.
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md90fan
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:08 am

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 13):
I was thinking exactly the same, Embraers could actually replace the 732's but I have no idea regarding the cargo issue either.

I dont know but I hear the new Jungle jets have decent cargo space. Once in MIA a person was bringing a car engine onboard the flight back to NAS!!!!!  silly 
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md90fan
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:15 am

Quoting Falcon flyer (Reply 12):
Could acquiring B737-400s or -500s be a short term solution pending a permanent decision ? With the cargo and baggage issues, are the E-Jets a viable option ?

Maybe some used 735 right now as they are the same size as the 732 and are availible, also the E-195 hasnt entered revenue service yet.
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Delta767300ER
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:43 pm

Quote:
I dont know but I hear the new Jungle jets have decent cargo space. Once in MIA a person was bringing a car engine onboard the flight back to NAS!!!!!

Must of been a Redneck. LOL J/K. Thats a new one for me. If they carried it on, where the Hell did they store it?

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fpofllflyboi
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:16 am

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 11):
What UP should do, though, is to get a couple of Islanders to fly there rather than send Dash-8s.

I thought Bahamasair was already doing this with Western Air or Cat Island Airways, can you confirm?

There was a time when Bahamasair used to fly the 727's to PHL, Wash DC and NYC. Why did they stop?

The E-190/195 would be ideal IMO. Maintenance checks should be easy for UP especially if the Embraer office/hangar in FLL can do them there.

If they did get the E190's, what profitable routes could open up without conflict with the USairways cities? I am thinking they can pick up the routes and agreement that Laker Bahamas had with the local hotels to do the junket flights and so on.
 
Indio66
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:48 am

The 717's would be perfect for these guys, too bad . .
 
md90fan
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:55 am

Quoting Fpofllflyboi (Reply 19):
I thought Bahamasair was already doing this with Western Air or Cat Island Airways, can you confirm?

Western Air with B1900C's to mainly Andros

Quoting Fpofllflyboi (Reply 19):
There was a time when Bahamasair used to fly the 727's to PHL, Wash DC and NYC. Why did they stop?

There were unprofitable for them
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md90fan
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:09 am

Quoting Delta767300ER (Reply 18):
Must of been a Redneck. LOL J/K. Thats a new one for me. If they carried it on, where the Hell did they store it?

lol  silly , my guess would be the cargo hold(?)


Maybe UP can get 1 or 2 73G/ER's and commence European services to maybe LGW and MAN* .
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PHLBOS
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:09 am

Quoting Indio66 (Reply 20):
The 717's would be perfect for these guys, too bad . .

I agree, but sadly, the last call for 717 orders (now or never) was just over a year ago.
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charlipr
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:01 am

E-195's + a couple of Q400's should do the work.
 
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garpd
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:26 am

Quoting Charlipr (Reply 24):
E-195's + a couple of Q400's should do the work.

I originaly suggested the Q400. But after a round of investigation and cost calculation, it wouldn't quite fit into UPs fleet. I can't recal the reasons behind it. But I was quite surprised.

The EMB 170 would seem to fit better.
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146crew
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:30 am

I have seen UP is PHL lately, what are they doing there? Charters?
Cross check complete.
 
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garpd
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:13 am

Quoting 146CREW (Reply 26):
I have seen UP is PHL lately, what are they doing there? Charters?

They actually make good money with charters, so I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.
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md90fan
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:23 am

Quoting GARPD (Reply 27):
They actually make good money with charters, so I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

Yeah, maybe one day they have a dedicated charter subsidiary  wink  Anyone here remember the HAV charters? lol  Smile
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fpofllflyboi
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:30 am

I remember the HAV charters. I believe some of those are due to the repatriation excercises.
 
OB1504
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:35 am

GARPD, how would keeping some of the Dash 8s and converting them for cargo use to supplement the E-Jets work out?

 
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garpd
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:37 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 30):
GARPD, how would keeping some of the Dash 8s and converting them for cargo use to supplement the E-Jets work out?

Hmm, that is something I've not asked. But I don't think it'd work.
The Dash-8s are getting long in the tooth and are frequently going tech.

They need replacing.
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fpofllflyboi
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:42 am

Quoting GARPD (Reply 31):
They need replacing.

Why not the Saab 2000 as a replacement?
 
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garpd
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:48 am

Quoting Fpofllflyboi (Reply 32):

Why not the Saab 2000 as a replacement?

I'm not entirely sure, but the Saab 340 and 2000 were considered. If I remember correctly it was payload limits not meeting UP's needs that made them unviable.
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md90fan
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:49 am

I think the Saab is pretty cool. The 2000 is really advanced(or at least for its time it was). And with its cruise speed of 368kts I don't think any Bahamian domestic route would be over a hour and 5 minutes flight time. The only question is availability, I think just over 50 were made.  Smile


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OB1504
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:01 am

I wouldn't mind seeing a SAAB 2000 at MIA, that's for sure...  Smile

It's come to my attention that there aren't any cargo varients of the Dash 8 avaliable, but there are combis.

 
md90fan
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:05 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 30):
GARPD, how would keeping some of the Dash 8s and converting them for cargo use to supplement the E-Jets work out?

Yes, there is no DASH-8 Freighters. But there is ATR, ATP, IL-114 frieghters as well as Shorts 330/360  Smile
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TransIsland
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RE: Bahamasair's Old 732s?

Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:37 am

Quoting Fpofllflyboi (Reply 19):
I thought Bahamasair was already doing this with Western Air or Cat Island Airways, can you confirm?

There was a time when Bahamasair used to fly the 727's to PHL, Wash DC and NYC. Why did they stop?

Western Air is operating Metroliners, not B1900s (that's Southern Air and Sky Unlimited). Cat Island Air is operating Banderantes.

I have no idea which of the many Bahamian carriers (most of which are a joke) operate which routes for UP, but there's all sorts of legal and other issues which ought to be adresses, and which make me believe that the current way UP does the outsourcing is less than ideal.

The 727s UP used to operate were IIRC on a charter basis, and the guy who ran the show went either belly up or ran away with a suitcase full of money. IIRC!! Believe it was all part of the post-1992 election Commission of Inquiry.

On the other hand, the way UP operates, they can't operate any route profitably.

I don't know what that ERJ study and UP is about, but I've spoken to a few people (aviation consultants, and people way up in UP), and they are rolling their eyes at the thought of replacing Boeings with ERJs. There simply isn't enough cargo capacity. If UP were to update their equipment, they'd need either Boeings or Airbusses.

Incidentally, I understand that when UP purchased the Dash-8, they had a study done that recommended they should purchase the F50 instead, but that a few "favours" then paved the (run)way for the Dash-8s anyway.

So I wouldn't be surprised to see ERJs in UP colours and then UP wondering what to do with them, because they can't do the Florida runs, at least not the ones in the late afternoon/evening, when Bahamians traditionally return from shopping.
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