gearup380
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Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:06 am

Flew AF459 GRU-CDG two weeks ago. The plane was full, booked out to the last seat. Shortly after everybody was seated F/As switched on the air condition and set it to max.cooling. After 10 min we had around 16°C. Considered that everybody was flying back from warm and humid Sao Paulo and still dressed in light clothing, this sudden switch from warm to cold was everything but comfortable. Throughout the flight everybody was coughing, blowing noses and trying to protect from the cold air. Despite single complains, the F/As didn´t adapt the temperature. In my opinion this is not only useless but also quite unhealthy. Even if there´s a big difference in the temperature at origin and at destination, they should allow the passengers to slowly adapt to the changed climate instead of placing them into a flying freezer. Has anybody made similar experiences?

Cheers
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foxecho
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:18 am

I dont belive the flight attendants can change tempurature in the cabin...someone else can correct me on this, wouldent this be the Pilots area?

Andrew
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LawnDart
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:21 am

Quoting Gearup380 (Thread starter):
F/As switched on the air condition and set it to max.cooling.



Quoting Foxecho (Reply 1):
I dont belive the flight attendants can change tempurature in the cabin

Pilots control the temperature...

Quoting Gearup380 (Thread starter):
Despite single complains, the F/As didn´t adapt the temperature.

Sometimes a mechanical issue will prevent the crew from being able to adjust cabin temperature adequately...
 
Avianca
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:09 am

welcome Gearup380 at airliners.net!

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 2):
Quoting Gearup380 (Thread starter):
Despite single complains, the F/As didn´t adapt the temperature.

Sometimes a mechanical issue will prevent the crew from being able to adjust cabin temperature adequately...

well if it was a mechanical issue, why didnt made the crew an anouncmend about the situation? I can imagine that this flight left alot of unhappy airfrance customers.

regards
Avianca
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macc
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:24 am

the F/As can change the temperature. at least on certain planes like a T7. they can adjust the temperatures even for areas of 3 rows.

I only guess that coming from a country of nice clima, the cabin temperature and the low humidity feels like 16 degrees. despite its most of the time configured around 21.

old story on longhaul. the 787 should offer some improvements to this issue. hopefully...
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BG777300ER
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:41 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 6):
Didn't the Helios plane have air-conditioning problems before it went down??

LOL, so random...
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gearup380
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:22 pm

Quoting Macc (Reply 5):
I only guess that coming from a country of nice clima, the cabin temperature and the low humidity feels like 16 degrees. despite its most of the time configured around 21.

Might be true to a certain extent though it was definitely colder than 21°C believe me. Nonetheless this temperature difference is just to big. They know that every passenger has spent at least some days in Brazil and got adapted to the climate.


Quoting Avianca (Reply 3):
I can imagine that this flight left alot of unhappy airfrance customers.

This was the case for sure.
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yowza
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:04 pm

Once flying EK back from Maldives via DXB, the MLE DXB leg was freezing. Which is ridiculous again considering that Maldives is warm and sunny. Mind you it did get me ready for the kak weather London had in store.

YOWza
 
Toulouse
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:06 pm

Personnally prefer a cooler cabin to a very hot one. I understand though how uncomfortable this may have been for the pax.
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jush
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:11 pm

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 6):
Didn't the Helios plane have air-conditioning problems before it went down??



Oh yeah i guess when the Helios cabin attendants tried to change the AC something happened and they run out of air....

Or why the hell is that related in any way to this topic at all.

Back:
I just think it was deceptive. I remember flying back from GRU to FRA with LH and the longer you feel the AC air it seems to be colder.
Especially when you get more tired during later flight stages.

Regds
jush
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gearup380
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:34 pm

Quoting Jush (Reply 11):
Oh yeah i guess when the Helios cabin attendants tried to change the AC something happened and they run out of air....

So you mean I can be happy that they didn't touch the A/c control panel?  Silly
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ZakHH
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:49 pm

Cabin temperature - I guess you could discuss hours about it. Personally, I never understood the logic behind it (if there is any at all, that is). But proper dressing will help regardless of the cabin resembling a freezer or an oven.

I usually wear a short-sleeved shirt with a rather warm pullover. That looks formal enough (just in case you meet some customers onboard), but keeps you warm even in cold cabins. If the cabin is warm, you can remove the pullover, which you can also stow in your handluggage if you come from (or fly to) a rather warm region.

Also, I would usually have a pair of warm socks in my handluggage, especially when travelling from warm regions. Then your feet won't sweat while you're at the airport (so you can remove or at least open your shoes during the flight), still if it is getting too cold, you have a chance of keeping your feet warm.

What I would never wear on long-haul flights is a suit. Not even in business. Smart-casual outfit and well-groomed overall appearance is fine enough in my eyes (I'm not about wearing jeans, a sweater and some sneakers), and that leaves me with the opportunity to dress functionally.

Btw, for those who have problems with their mucous membrane, because of the dry air: there are nasal sprays based on seawater (with no chemicals added). I tried them for the first time a couple of months ago, and they really do a great job. They won't help you keeping your nose open when you have a cold, but they will keep your nose from drying out.
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BestWestern
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:59 pm

Quoting Gearup380 (Reply 8):
Might be true to a certain extent though it was definitely colder than 21°C believe me

How do you know the exact temperature, or is it just your perception?

Aircraft are dry. If you have come from a humid area (brazil) you will immediatly notice the difference in humidity. 21c is a perfect room temperature. At night, your body temperature falls, add that to lack of sleep, end of holiday blues and you feel colder even more.


I really doubt that AF were trying to freeze you out. Most aircraft have temperature monitoring systems in the cabin so would identify an over cold cabin.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
FlySSC
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:00 pm

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 2):
Pilots control the temperature...



Quoting Foxecho (Reply 1):
I dont belive the flight attendants can change tempurature in the cabin...someone else can correct me on this, wouldent this be the Pilots area?



Quoting Gearup380 (Thread starter):
After 10 min we had around 16°C.

In the B744/B777/A332/A343, F/A can adjust the temperature in the PAX cabin.
The Cockpit makes a pre-selection of an average temperature, (usually 21° or 22°) and the F/A can make this temp. vary +/- 5°, or +/- 2,5° around the pre-selected temp., according to the aircraft type.

Gearup380,
Sorry to say that but 16°c in an aircraft in a normal situation is impossible.
The problem comes more from the aircraft conception : in the A332/A343 and the B777, some areas are very difficult to warm up due to the air conditionning system itself : around the doors 3 in the A332/A343, in the middle of the main central cabin in the B777 (last rows of the Business Cabin/first rows of Y in AF's Config) and in the last rows at the rear.
Same problem in the Front Galley in the A320's aircraft family.
This is a problem concerning all the airlines operating these aircraft types, not only AF.

[Edited 2006-01-31 11:01:53]
 
gearup380
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:18 pm

Well, it doesn't actually matter if it was 16°C, 18°C or 19°C, it was just too cold, not only for me, for everybody, otherwise people wouldn't have started to freeze, cough, blow noses, cover under balnkets, pullovers etc. So my suggestion to the airlines would be not to follow strict temperature rules, but to adapt the temperature according to outside climate at origin and destination so that in the end the customer is satisfied and can enjoy the flight which for this trip was hardly the case.
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su
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:33 am

F/As are able to control temperature in planes, even in separate sections of the plane as mentioned above.

You can never please anyone with air temperature in the aircraft. You have 300-400 pax and they all want hot/cold/warm and etc. I noticed that usually US carriers keep the air in planes much cooler then other carries. This is strictly cultural and americans do enjoy colder indoor temperature and more used to air conditioning then others. Me and my partner (he is american and I am russian) always have this problem, especially traveling together. It's too hot for him and too cold for me. He actually tries to fly US carriers as the air is much cooler in planes.

So the solution is wear adequate close - short sleeve t-shirt and warm jumper or sweatshirt.
"Life is too short to take it serious..."
 
Matt72033
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:42 am

Quoting Foxecho (Reply 1):
I dont belive the flight attendants can change tempurature in the cabin...someone else can correct me on this, wouldent this be the Pilots area?

yes they can

was it a 340 by any chance? they do have EXTREMELY good air conditioning packs!!
 
b777a340fan
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:49 am

The reason why the cabin temperature is cold, rather than hot is, I believe, because it's much easier for a passenger to adapt in colder temperatures. One can easily throw in a blanket or two and be fine. When the temperature is hot, one can only take so much clothes off  silly  and it's much more uncomfortable to bear. Plus, if you think about it, germs and the likes spread/thrive much easier in warm temperatures than in cold ones. Plus, you know it's never possible to please EVERYBODY. Having a 100% general concensus is literally impossible. There's always someone that ruins the party  Angry If you have four or five complaints, the only thing the F/As can say is "sorry" and give you a blanket, unfortunately.
 
FlySSC
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:52 am

Quoting SU (Reply 16):
You can never please anyone with air temperature in the aircraft. You have 300-400 pax and they all want hot/cold/warm and etc

This is very true ...
One is calling you because "it's freeeezing in this plane !!!".
You do your job, warm up the cabin, and 5 minutes later, another one seating three rows behind the previous PAX calls on you because "It's too hot in your f*** plane" ...  sarcastic 
 
georgiaame
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:58 am

Ah, the good old days of flying the 707 and DC-8s. I remember once complaining about how cold the cabin was, and was told that the real problem was actually cooling the cabin rather than heating it. I'm still scratching my head wanting an explanation. But over the years, I've learned to dress warmly for 35,000 feet. I don't understand how the slobs get onto an aircraft in shorts, tank tops, and sandal's and not freeze their cogliones off. My sweatshirt is always packed for action 15 minutes into the flight out of south Florida, and while I am frequently accused of dressing as a non revenuer when I fly international up front, I usually drop the pretenses shortly into the flight and change into the warm, floppy sweatshirt for the rest of the trip. Beats bitching about the temperature that I know I can't control.
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
Matt72033
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:01 am

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 20):
I remember once complaining about how cold the cabin was, and was told that the real problem was actually cooling the cabin rather than heating it.

air condtioning packs put out freezing air, literally! this air is mixed with warm air before it enters the cabin, its this warm air flow thats varied to control the temperature!
 
su
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:04 am

Actually there is a myth that F/As make the air warm in the cabin right after the meal service so that pax will relax, fall in sleep and not bother them (F/As)  Smile
"Life is too short to take it serious..."
 
erikwilliam
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:26 am

Listen guys, don´t be angry at the F/A´s or at the pilots if they turn the a.c to min temporature, they´r just trying to make u feel as you´r at home, just that  sarcastic 

BTW, wich is the lowest temperature the a.c can get inside an airplane?
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gearup380
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:36 am

Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 16):
was it a 340 by any chance?

332
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Matt72033
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:56 am

Quoting Gearup380 (Reply 23):
332

probably has the same packs
 
crogalski
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:56 am

on the A320's, only the cpt or FO can do it, three main knobs on the center of the overhead.

I've got a picture, but its blurry.. ill try to get one tonight...

It's

Cockpit
FWD Cabin
AFT Cabin
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BAtriple7
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:59 am

Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 22):
BTW, wich is the lowest temperature the a.c can get inside an airplane?

About -56 degrees centigrade or thereabouts. Just open the door for a few minutes at FL360  Wink
 
BestWestern
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:02 am

Quoting BAtriple7 (Reply 26):
About -56 degrees centigrade or thereabouts. Just open the door for a few minutes at FL360

I can imagine the complaints the cabin crew would get then.....

imho i PREFER a cool cabin to a hot cabin...
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
DavidT
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:14 am

I'd rather be too cold than too warm. At least if you're cold you can wrap up or use a blanket. If you're too warm to need to drink lots, you sweat, you need to take off clothes etc.
 
N587NK
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting Crogalski (Reply 25):
on the A320's, only the cpt or FO can do it, three main knobs on the center of the overhead

On our 319s and our brand new 321s(our used, leased 321s dont have the touch screen up front) we can control the temperture +/- 2.5 degrees F. Its usually enough to make the cabin comfortable but of course you cant please every one. Its usually much colder in/around the galley areas.

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 19):
I don't understand how the slobs get onto an aircraft in shorts, tank tops, and sandal's and not freeze their cogliones off

Usually the ones who complain that it is SOOOOOO cold in the cabin are the ones that forgot to put on half their clothes
 Big grin
 
AMSSpotter
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:54 am

Quoting SU (Reply 15):
I noticed that usually US carriers keep the air in planes much cooler then other carries. This is strictly cultural and Americans do enjoy colder indoor temperature and more used to air conditioning then others. Me and my partner (he is American and I am Russian) always have this problem, especially traveling together. It's too hot for him and too cold for me.

I've similar experiences flying US-carriers. On my last trip back to the Netherlands, from ORD to AMS, it was freezing in the cabin. After putting on a sweater and seeing many of the Dutch passengers do the same thing, I politely asked the flight-attendant if she could raise the temperature a little. She was very friendly but took "a little" quite literally since the temperature hardly seemed to go up.

After a while, the flight-attendant asked if it felt better for me (nice service, honestly!) and I told her, that, although I really appreciated her efforts, I actually still felt quite cold. The flight-attendant was (in a friendly way) looking at me like: "Guy, I'm BURNING UP in here for cryin' out loud".
However, she said she would try to adjust the climate control a little more which was really nice, especially considered that the crew are running around all the time and must feel warmer because of that, too.

But like you said: there does seem to be a "cultural difference" between Americans and some other cultures when it comes to air-conditionings. When my best American friend and I are together, we're always bickering about the temperature. She was in the Netherlands last Summer and couldn't stand the "heat" that we had almost been dying for. It was like 25C/87F and she was missing the climate control she has at home (which always freezes me over), haha.
 
londonlady71
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:55 am

sounds more comfy than the very very hot temps we had on BA flights to/from JFK recently you really could hardly breath my daughter was in her vest it was a nightmare yet apparently nothing could be done!

ps air chance is a better name for air france after problems I have seen with people getting their bags!
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:03 am

Quoting Jush (Reply 9):
Oh yeah i guess when the Helios cabin attendants tried to change the AC something happened and they run out of air....

Or why the hell is that related in any way to this topic at all

apparently some people are too dense to understand that if a plane is having climate control problems it could be indicative of other problems that could lead to pressure problems. In other words, Helios ignored the air conditioning problem and look where it ended up.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
GVWOW
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:00 am

I too find that AF330s are always cold, but for some reason, I flew an A340 with VS recently and it was like an oven! It was so hot that my eyes where itching and my sinuses where horribly chapped. It was also sweltering throughout the plane, not just the row I was in. I wonder if the crew just didn't find it all that hot, or if one of the packs was marginal...
 
breiz
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:21 am

Quoting Gearup380 (Thread starter):
Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Air Freeze, with a frozen "crevette" as logo, that makes sense  Smile
 
TGV
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:17 am

Quoting Londonlady71 (Reply 31):
ps air chance is a better name for air france after problems I have seen with people getting their bags!

Figures for lost baggages according to AEA

Lost baggages for 1000 passengers for AF, LH and BA (majors with a high percentage of connecting passengers, hence a higher risk of misconnection for baggages):

First Quarter 05
AEA Average 14.7
AF 14.9
BA 18.3
LH 18.6

Second Quarter 05
AEA Average 11.9
AF 12.2
LH 14.2
BA 15.6


Third Quarter 05
AEA Average 15.6
AF 16.1
LH 16.3
BA 20.4


So AF may not be excellent, but COMPARABLE airlines are not better!
Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans. (AF/KL for example)
 
Cure
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:51 pm

Quoting Londonlady71 (Reply 31):
ps air chance is a better name for air france after problems I have seen with people getting their bags!

Au contraire....looks like British Airways is often one of the worst...
Why say so many random (and false) things on a topic?
 
Matt72033
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RE: Why Not Rename Air France Into Air Freeze?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:58 pm

Quoting GVWOW (Reply 33):
or if one of the packs was marginal...

usually if one pack goes tits up the others will automatically go into high flow mode, this is a pressurisation issue as opposed to temp control!

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